BFL May 12th Update

[volosator]

Best part about this are the many many cases they are bought for the asics i know some picture with a warehouse with 40 - 50 cases ^^

That looks right, I don't thing there are more than 50 orders for mini rigs

[smoothie]

what i dot understand is one point ,

BFL ask her Customer for a refund or a new waiting time for a few weeks ...

when will the customer demand again?

after 3 Month ? 10 Month ?

If people used Paypal after April 1st. Then, the noobs will request refunds in about 2 to 3 days if they still want PayPal Buyer Protection.

Without it, they are at the mercy of BFL.

You should make a thread about this specifically before it is too late.

[tvbcof]

I don't think there will be a 'downfall' to BFL.  I think they will achieve everything they set out to achieve and probably more than they expected to.

Your statement above is already a fail.

They missed their October, Nov, Dec ... April dates for shipping.

They missed their specs. Mini Rig has no real solution (their supposed cases are too small)

just to name a few things they set out to achieve and failed.

So no your expectations are already in the clouds and unrealistic when it comes to BFL.

Plain and simple.

I don't think pirateat40 had a 'downfall' either.  His operation had a distinct endpoint although it was not predictable exactly when it would happen.

When I say 'downfall', I mean only that I don't believe that the BFL operators will end up in jail or even find it necessary to undergo clawbacks for a significant fraction of their take.

Plain and simple.

[smoothie]

I don't think there will be a 'downfall' to BFL.  I think they will achieve everything they set out to achieve and probably more than they expected to.

Your statement above is already a fail.

They missed their October, Nov, Dec ... April dates for shipping.

They missed their specs. Mini Rig has no real solution (their supposed cases are too small)

just to name a few things they set out to achieve and failed.

So no your expectations are already in the clouds and unrealistic when it comes to BFL.

Plain and simple.

I don't think pirateat40 had a 'downfall' either.  His operation had a distinct endpoint although it was not predictable exactly when it would happen.

When I say 'downfall', I mean only that I don't believe that the BFL operators will end up in jail or even find it necessary to undergo clawbacks for a significant fraction of their take.

Plain and simple.

I dont see much difference when it comes to pride between BFL and Pirateat40. Same bullshit different day/year.

[tvbcof]

I dont see much difference when it comes to pride between BFL and Pirateat40. Same bullshit different day/year.

Yup.  That should tell us something.  Not something definite, but a decent clue.  That is why on a different post I did not except the assertion that Josh was stupid or incompetent.  It's just that most people (including his fiercest opponents like you) are totally mis-mapping what 'competence' and 'skill' mean in the context of BFL.  Just as was the case with Pirateat40, a brazen 'in-your-face' attitude is/was very effective bait for a certain class of 'customers'.  This kind of operation in Bitcoin-land seems to be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

[smoothie]

I dont see much difference when it comes to pride between BFL and Pirateat40. Same bullshit different day/year.

Yup.  That should tell us something.  Not something definite, but a decent clue.  That is why on a different post I did not except the assertion that Josh was stupid or incompetent.  It's just that most people (including his fiercest opponents like you) are totally mis-mapping what 'competence' and 'skill' mean in the context of BFL.  Just as was the case with Pirateat40, a brazen 'in-your-face' attitude is/was very effective bait for a certain class of 'customers'.  This kind of operation in Bitcoin-land seems to be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

If Josh was competent his time estimates would have been much more accurate.

So no, he doesn't have a fucking clue about any part of the process. Or he does and was just lying. Either way it is pathetic.

[tvbcof]

I dont see much difference when it comes to pride between BFL and Pirateat40. Same bullshit different day/year.

Yup.  That should tell us something.  Not something definite, but a decent clue.  That is why on a different post I did not except the assertion that Josh was stupid or incompetent.  It's just that most people (including his fiercest opponents like you) are totally mis-mapping what 'competence' and 'skill' mean in the context of BFL.  Just as was the case with Pirateat40, a brazen 'in-your-face' attitude is/was very effective bait for a certain class of 'customers'.  This kind of operation in Bitcoin-land seems to be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

If Josh was competent his time estimates would have been much more accurate.

So no, he doesn't have a fucking clue about any part of the process. Or he does and was just lying. Either way it is pathetic.

He had as much of a clue as he needed...which was not really a whole lot.  Don't be thick.

[smoothie]

I dont see much difference when it comes to pride between BFL and Pirateat40. Same bullshit different day/year.

Yup.  That should tell us something.  Not something definite, but a decent clue.  That is why on a different post I did not except the assertion that Josh was stupid or incompetent.  It's just that most people (including his fiercest opponents like you) are totally mis-mapping what 'competence' and 'skill' mean in the context of BFL.  Just as was the case with Pirateat40, a brazen 'in-your-face' attitude is/was very effective bait for a certain class of 'customers'.  This kind of operation in Bitcoin-land seems to be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

If Josh was competent his time estimates would have been much more accurate.

So no, he doesn't have a fucking clue about any part of the process. Or he does and was just lying. Either way it is pathetic.

He had as much of a clue as he needed...which was not really a whole lot.  Don't be thick.

Dont be thick? You telling that to a Smoothie? lol oh the irony 

[FloridaBear]

I dont see much difference when it comes to pride between BFL and Pirateat40. Same bullshit different day/year.

Yup.  That should tell us something.  Not something definite, but a decent clue.  That is why on a different post I did not except the assertion that Josh was stupid or incompetent.  It's just that most people (including his fiercest opponents like you) are totally mis-mapping what 'competence' and 'skill' mean in the context of BFL.  Just as was the case with Pirateat40, a brazen 'in-your-face' attitude is/was very effective bait for a certain class of 'customers'.  This kind of operation in Bitcoin-land seems to be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

If Josh was competent his time estimates would have been much more accurate.

So no, he doesn't have a fucking clue about any part of the process. Or he does and was just lying. Either way it is pathetic.

This. The fact that they strung customers along with "delivering in 2 weeks" when they had no working prototype is just plain wrong--it's tantamount to lying [EDIT: and that's been going on for MONTHS]. It's like they just expected to get wafers and Presto! Finished product! Things just don't work that way in the real world.

[ibminer]

Everyone is just another 'cog in the machine', including you Josh… there are some at the very top, but you aren't one of them. If someone is telling you when something will be done, its because they have management  skills and know how to get their 'skilled labor' to do what they need them to do. But that person has their own management skillset (and possibly other skills) and is answering to someone else. You, Josh, are at the mercy of many others… the more you think you are a king, or one of the 'untouchables', the less of a chance BFL and/or your employment at BFL has in the long run.
(I am envisioning a photoshop'd picture of Josh with a head 5 times larger… maybe a bobble Josh? if only I had time to do a quick photoshop right now!  )

As for your current employer, you may want to get control of your timeline & your delivering of results over there, boss… or you - oh yes, even you - could be replaced.  

Josh really doesn't seem to be the person to make comments about timelines or delivering of results. Nor does he seem like the right person to be upset about not being able to have a "civil, intelligent discussion" on the internet… given some of the immature behavior he has exhibited in both BFL and bitcointalk forums. But, maybe I am just living in a false reality.  

[tvbcof]

He had as much of a clue as he needed...which was not really a whole lot.  Don't be thick.

Dont be thick? You telling that to a Smoothie? lol oh the irony 

You thought and apparently still think that BFL was a real company trying to make real gear for real people.  You were chumped like there rest.  The joke here is that berating Josh for not being a good product manager...and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the joke is on you.

[k9quaint]

He had as much of a clue as he needed...which was not really a whole lot.  Don't be thick.

Dont be thick? You telling that to a Smoothie? lol oh the irony 

You thought and apparently still think that BFL was a real company trying to make real gear for real people.  You were chumped like there rest.  The joke here is that berating Josh for not being a good product manager...and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the joke is on you.

I have been pretty critical of BFL, but I believe they will eventually deliver something before getting crushed by the competition.
It will not meet their specs (or even get close), be weeks before anyone sees it in bulk, and will probably die after running for a few months, but it will be something. A decent percentage of their pre-orders might even be filled.

[ninjarobot]

I have been pretty critical of BFL, but I believe they will eventually deliver something

Yes, there will be cookies.  The cake, however, is still a lie.  A BFL.

[YipYip]

One time in Nashville I had a redneck drywall subcontractor tell me that he'll finish it at his own pace. That wasn't good enough, for the superintendent for Centex homes was already on my ass to get that house done, already two days behind schedule. I was in jeopardy of losing that subdivision all over only one house ever being behind because the super for Centex had a higher up wanting to get his pet drywall crew in that sub.

I told the redneck right then and there to pull off the job, whereupon he spat in my face. I handed him a drywall knife and told him to now go and slice my tires along with informing him that since he knew where I lived to make sure and put sugar in my gas tank.

I call my dependable Jose and instructed him I needed this house done within 24 hours. It was about three in the afternoon when Jose shown up and started with his crew. Come morning, not a soul was around the house, as I drove by it directly to super's trailer to give him the news.

Inside the trailer, the super looked me in the eye and asked if the house was done. Since I didn't stop to look nor spoke with Jose, I still looked the super in the eye and said yes. Then proceeded to tell him to get the painter and trim carpenter in there otherwise he's going to get behind on that house and that he was replaceable.

He didn't believe me, so we both jumped into his truck and drove to the house. Sure enough it was 100% hang, taped, finished, and dried (quickset was used). He couldn't believe his eyes. I informed him to have the painter spray some KILZ^® on all the mudded areas so that there's no chance for the chemicals in the quickset to bleed through the paint.

How did I know Jose had the house done without me seeing it first-hand with only a drive-by? Jose never let me down. His word was as good as gold. How was I able to never lose a drywall contract to the competition? Among other things, I never once even thought telling a home builder that it'll get done when I get it done.

Bottomline: I 100% believe that BFL is going to go down and there will be many of their customers hurt when they do. Not to mention it give Bitcoin another black eye.

That outfit is a bunch of lying conniving pieces of shit. Anybody who doesn't see it has some serious issues of their own I'm sad to say.

Unless they ain't right in their head, not a single customer of BFL would let somebody doing work for them get away with saying, "It'll get done with it gets done!" Not a one. Yet here you are accepting the same and paying in advance for the pre liege, whereas my example consisted of ridding the clown sans payment due to lack of performance.

Here's the sad part: Because I expressed the above, I will probably suffer the consequences, over and beyond seeing my ignore turn a brighter orange.

I haven't gone off the deep end yet. I'm saving that for after July if fuckface Boussac doesn't pull through. If that be the case, all mother fuckin' hell is goin' to break loose.

<Hurting too bad from the stones to edit any grammatical errors--didn't proofread!>

+1 .....I thought there was a chance when they finally got 20 units built but now they ran out of chips !!!

It is now 100% going down ..come August they are done and gone by the powers of 50 home brew guys with a better, simplier bussiness model

You will be able to buy ASICS at the train station or 7 Eleven and these ASSHATS with the "ITS DONE WHEN ITS DONE"....well they will be done !!!

He must have been working in a sheltred workshop to try and say that "its done bullshit" would be acceptable in any even qausi corporate environment

[PuertoLibre]

Everyone is just another 'cog in the machine', including you Josh… there are some at the very top, but you aren't one of them. If someone is telling you when something will be done, its because they have management  skills and know how to get their 'skilled labor' to do what they need them to do. But that person has their own management skillset (and possibly other skills) and is answering to someone else. You, Josh, are at the mercy of many others… the more you think you are a king, or one of the 'untouchables', the less of a chance BFL and/or your employment at BFL has in the long run.
(I am envisioning a photoshop'd picture of Josh with a head 5 times larger… maybe a bobble Josh? if only I had time to do a quick photoshop right now!  )

As for your current employer, you may want to get control of your timeline & your delivering of results over there, boss… or you - oh yes, even you - could be replaced.  

Josh really doesn't seem to be the person to make comments about timelines or delivering of results. Nor does he seem like the right person to be upset about not being able to have a "civil, intelligent discussion" on the internet… given some of the immature behavior he has exhibited in both BFL and bitcointalk forums. But, maybe I am just living in a false reality.  

I am starting to think that the BFL rep is on rather nasty terms with his employers to make a statement like that. I have never heard of an employee openly saying they are irreplaceable (and not a cog).

This leads me to think there are serious problems and this may explain why Josh has been nastier than ever before with his statements. If this is the case, then I just want to let BFL management know that they have my backing for the next step.

If nothing else, ejecting a sprocket will give them a healthy image for at least 2 more months while they find someone who can work "more effectively" at their job. Its either that or face the eventual collapse of the company. It is their choice...

[meowmeowbrowncow]

BFL_Josh: "Originally Posted by swissminer  

Hi Josh
I understand your frustration. Having worked in IT as an engineer and project management consultant, I believe that you could not survive in a corporate environment if you would tell your customers or superiors, it is done when it is done.
Certainly there were numerous key mistakes made along the process or BFL would not be in this situation. Giving a concise end date, when really overall schedule uncertainty was in the order of >100% was one of them.

Huh... my past employment history would seem to disagree with your assessment. I have told many a supervisor that it will be done when it's done. That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine. You are the one driving the timeline, because you produce results. If someone is telling you when something will be done, you aren't the one delivering results... the guy or gal telling you when to do it is the one delivering results. You're just a replaceable part at that point."

What a load of BS.  All companies, big and small have product roadmaps.  Some of them are kept confidential internally, but for BIG business for *BIG market segments Product Roadmaps are a staple.

*One could argue that Bitcoin ASIC miners ARE the BIG market segment.  So, should be treated in accordance with standard business practices for public companies - oh, right, they aren't public.  Still, it's not unreasonable or rare that private companies publish product roadmaps.


This is just more BS "telling us like it is - like it should be" from Josh's opinion.  And, I'm afraid, those opinions aren't, and never have been in regards to BFL's products, ones based in the little place called reality.


Spin, spin....eat, drink, take a shit, spin some more.  


Reality check:  It's a bad operation - not publishing data is just an escape route from any added responsibility.  Done.


Edit:

I can't resist.  I've worked as a PM and engineer at GE and HP.  If I heard the sort of premise and attitude being displayed by Josh - that person would be canned.  Simple.
Results oriented middle management are not push-overs - don't let Josh make you think this.

We had a slang used in management meetings called a "Come to Jesus" meeting.  Those meetings were never good - since somebody f'ed the pooch - and they either capitulate or career - game over.

We need one big "Come to Jesus" meeting for BFL.  I have a feeling rain of fire, the four horsemen, and the end of days would result if that even had a chance of happening.

Damnit:  I broke a cardinal rule of giving personal info.  Uhg.

[Schrankwand]

BFL_Josh: "Originally Posted by swissminer  

Hi Josh
I understand your frustration. Having worked in IT as an engineer and project management consultant, I believe that you could not survive in a corporate environment if you would tell your customers or superiors, it is done when it is done.
Certainly there were numerous key mistakes made along the process or BFL would not be in this situation. Giving a concise end date, when really overall schedule uncertainty was in the order of >100% was one of them.

Huh... my past employment history would seem to disagree with your assessment. I have told many a supervisor that it will be done when it's done. That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine. You are the one driving the timeline, because you produce results. If someone is telling you when something will be done, you aren't the one delivering results... the guy or gal telling you when to do it is the one delivering results. You're just a replaceable part at that point."

And here we seem to cut to the chase of BFLs failure: Arrogance and total lack of project management.

Josh: "I have told many a supervisor that it will be done when it's done."

Never in my whole work experience (25 years in IT) did any one of my superiors accept a "it's done when it's done". They always wanted to have some estimate (time, effort or money wise). This simply is the way professionals work.
 

Josh: "That's the thing about being in a position where your skills are valued and you aren't just another cog in the machine."

Josh is hinting that only in "his position" one can do whatever he wants, because his skills are so much more valuable than the skills of anyone else (aka us worker slaves). That he doesn't have to play by the rules.

This ignorance and this arrogance will be the downfall of BFL.

Yes, in all my time in business, I could have never have that done.


Companies usually want a timeline, ask for how long that is going to take, you start a project plan and then you will constantly mention what the plan is, if it is going to be met and whether or not it needs to be amended. If people depend on you and you say "Well ti will be done when it is done" you will maybe not get fired. In my line of work, who gives a shit what my line of work is, you don't get fired. You just don't get booked anymore. Then, after some time, a letter will fly in. A letter that basically states how the project had been escalated, what the delays cost the other company and how much YOU are going to pay them. I have seen this happen before and it went into the millions.

[hardpick]

My 2 cents

Bashing Josh is not going to get us anywhere and IMO makes thing worst –he has to spend time defending himself instead of focusing on getting products out the door.
I believe Josh has tried very hard to get this product out the door and from what I can see has worked most Saturday and Sunday for the last 4 months.

I have orders outstand since the 24 June 2012 for 60 GH rigs.
So I am also very frustrated with BLF lack of progress as the windows of opportunity is closing fast.

In general I agree this project has being badly managed and IMO required better management support  EG  Director/VP of engineering responsible for both R&D and manufacturing --- who should have employed a full time Project Manager  and had Josh as part of that team.
(I don't believe 1 person   can do  the work and do the PR and manage the project - will be to busy on day to day stuff to see the big picture )

My estimate is that BFL now has a 100% working proto type so are now able to order all the parts required for full manufacturing -- so I would expect products  mid to late June.

[Xian01]

Bashing Josh is not going to get us anywhere and IMO makes thing worst –he has to spend time defending himself instead of focusing on geting products out the door.

 Perhaps Josh should have thought of the consequences of his chest-puffing, posturing, hubris, ignorance, myopia, inexperience, and a trail of broken promises spanning the globe over the last 8 months.

 Schadenfreude, in this case, is completely justified.

 Especially if you are a multiple pre-order customer waiting to take delivery of a product we have ordered almost a year ago.

[tvbcof]

...
I can't resist.  I've worked as a PM and engineer at GE and HP.  If I heard the sort of premise and attitude being displayed by Josh - that person would be canned.  Simple.
Results oriented middle management are not push-overs - don't let Josh make you think this.
...

My experience is that most engineers at tech companies, and especially staff engineers, don't need to put up with that non-sense.  Nor do competent managers need to or wish to create such an environment.  In a reasonably well functioning environment everyone knows what needs to be done, when, and why.  Everyone trusts that the other persons are doing their best so there is not a lot of haranguing.  Most of "You done yet?  No, go fuck yourself!" banter is of a joking nature and is usually a lot of fun.  I've worked primarily with start-ups though.  Some were successful and some not so much.  Even large companies can function with the same mentality but I suspect that it is less common.