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Poll
Question: How do you feel as a Moneypot Investor after one Investor got the following offer: even though he had lost 35 Bitcoin as an investor with Moneypot, he would have to keep his funds there until he made the loss back until December or Moneypot would refund h
Scammed - 9 (34.6%)
Fooled - 3 (11.5%)
Fair Treated - 8 (30.8%)
who is Moneypot - 6 (23.1%)
Total Voters: 26

Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
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Author Topic: Moneypot Investors are invited to vote and speak up  (Read 1723 times)
stepwilli
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August 09, 2017, 06:50:08 AM
 #41

The forced tip feature circumvented a mixture of the Moneypot commission and/or the investor's house edge.  You ended up in the possession of some or most of the funds from the forced tips.

Your site was a net negative for Moneypot.  It cost us more than we made from processing the bets.  Our biggest investors spoke out quite clearly about your app and had zero interest in backing it. 

We do take responsibility for having a 3.33x Kelly (although many investors preferred it that way).  We aren't as well versed as Ryan concerning Kelly Criterion, but we aren't completely clueless about it either.

I am not sure what you are referring to with the 8 BTC.

Although I wasn't part of the original purchasing team, I can say that you have a lot of information and details wrong.  Please stop assuming or guessing.

Moneypot was always a long term play.  We ended up forgoing any commission in the first few months and today have zero commission as well.  I have worked several hours for a year with no salary.  I haven't received any dividend directly from Moneypot.  I have invested a large sum of personal funds into Moneypot.  A 'quick profit' was never the goal and I find it very offensive that you believe that.

I have contact with all our biggest investors.  You are not currently invested in Moneypot. I wish you would stop trying to speak for them.  Granted it hasn't been the smoothest ride, but we are constantly working on making this all work.
Also, now that we have a more accurate timeline of completion, we can now tell you that soon = before end of the month for V2 & Rubies.

From my own point of view, I think this guy is getting scammed. Wait, the report said that Moneypot has about 2.5k worth of BTC remaining (please correct me if am wrong) and promised to pay this guy up to 35 BTC. How do you think that is possible? Or are they planning to thwart everything, maybe scam others and make them lose just to get some BTC to pay the so called lucky guy ?

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1537892296
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JackpotRacer
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August 09, 2017, 01:11:02 PM
 #42

The forced tip feature circumvented a mixture of the Moneypot commission and/or the investor's house edge.  You ended up in the possession of some or most of the funds from the forced tips.

Your site was a net negative for Moneypot.  It cost us more than we made from processing the bets.  Our biggest investors spoke out quite clearly about your app and had zero interest in backing it. 

We do take responsibility for having a 3.33x Kelly (although many investors preferred it that way).  We aren't as well versed as Ryan concerning Kelly Criterion, but we aren't completely clueless about it either.

I am not sure what you are referring to with the 8 BTC.

Although I wasn't part of the original purchasing team, I can say that you have a lot of information and details wrong.  Please stop assuming or guessing.

Moneypot was always a long term play.  We ended up forgoing any commission in the first few months and today have zero commission as well.  I have worked several hours for a year with no salary.  I haven't received any dividend directly from Moneypot.  I have invested a large sum of personal funds into Moneypot.  A 'quick profit' was never the goal and I find it very offensive that you believe that.

I have contact with all our biggest investors.  You are not currently invested in Moneypot. I wish you would stop trying to speak for them.  Granted it hasn't been the smoothest ride, but we are constantly working on making this all work.
Also, now that we have a more accurate timeline of completion, we can now tell you that soon = before end of the month for V2 & Rubies.

From my own point of view, I think this guy is getting scammed. Wait, the report said that Moneypot has about 2.5k worth of BTC remaining (please correct me if am wrong) and promised to pay this guy up to 35 BTC. How do you think that is possible? Or are they planning to thwart everything, maybe scam others and make them lose just to get some BTC to pay the so called lucky guy ?

it looks that you have the numbers wrong

right now the Moneypot Bank Roll is about 321 BTC

Moneypot promised the Investor to pay him back the investment of 103 BTC and the 35 BTC in December in case he did not earn the 35 BTC he lost

all your other options are thinkable and possible because it is a lot of money that MP owners promised to this one Investor
and they still have promised to compensate some more losses to some more Investors

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August 09, 2017, 04:12:44 PM
 #43

@JPR can you please clarify what you are talking about:

RHavar also from you I want to have an explanation where the part of the 8 BTC Jackpot disappeared? if you didnt give over a part of it when you sold MP then you and your investors kept it. and if you gave it over to MP new owners then the new owners have it

You seem to be implying that I embezzled funds or something of the sort. I would like the chance to show that such a thing is nonsense, but I literally have no idea of what you are talking about or have any memory of a jackpot or anything of the sort.
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August 09, 2017, 04:59:40 PM
 #44

The forced tip feature circumvented a mixture of the Moneypot commission and/or the investor's house edge.  You ended up in the possession of some or most of the funds from the forced tips.


Oh look, it's exactly what I was saying.

Cue another mentally unstable screed about how I am also Dogedigital and stealing money from player's wins is really a good thing.

and I thought my english is bad. Dogedigital is the biggest FUDDER IMO and clown as RHavar wrote. Dogedigital thinks his lies will save Moneypot. it will not and time will tell as always



^ nailed it


Jackpotracer dust lottery was by and far a damaging product for us.  You constantly harassed us and all of our developers, bringing them to the point of wanting to quit. Plenty of App Owners were extremely put off with any interaction with you or any affiliation with your site and your site is not profitable for us or you if you didn't include the forced tip option. 

It's funny that we gave you an answer about when V2 is and you don't care about it but were screaming about it 24/7 earlier.  Why? Because you only care about spreading FUD about us. 

You get an idea into your head and you run with it to make us look bad but never adjust to what's being said or what's presented and there's absolutely no changing your mind.  It's destructive for both of us.   
 


Can confirm Cool He's quite possibly one of the most unpleasant people I've dealt with before.



Quoted for posterity.


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JackpotRacer
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August 11, 2017, 07:35:45 AM
 #45

@JPR can you please clarify what you are talking about:

RHavar also from you I want to have an explanation where the part of the 8 BTC Jackpot disappeared? if you didnt give over a part of it when you sold MP then you and your investors kept it. and if you gave it over to MP new owners then the new owners have it

You seem to be implying that I embezzled funds or something of the sort. I would like the chance to show that such a thing is nonsense, but I literally have no idea of what you are talking about or have any memory of a jackpot or anything of the sort.

I soon explain to you and to Doge what I mean regarding the missing 8 BTC Jackpot

in the meantime please be so kind to answer my question I asked in another posting

our Lottery had a House Edge of 9.22%

let me ask you how much could a player win max at a game with 9.22% HE  with a 1000 bits bet in case you have 1x kelly and 1000 BTC Bank Roll?

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August 11, 2017, 01:33:55 PM
 #46

@JPR can you please clarify what you are talking about:

RHavar also from you I want to have an explanation where the part of the 8 BTC Jackpot disappeared? if you didnt give over a part of it when you sold MP then you and your investors kept it. and if you gave it over to MP new owners then the new owners have it

You seem to be implying that I embezzled funds or something of the sort. I would like the chance to show that such a thing is nonsense, but I literally have no idea of what you are talking about or have any memory of a jackpot or anything of the sort.

first of all let me saying it again I don't fight you or anyone I am just posting my opinion but you and some other guys here are attacking me and I will always defend myself

I am asking questions to get straight forward answers thats all. as long you guys are not telling lies and not bullshitting I am fine and that I am unpleasant thats fine for me because I see the truth hurts! I also know that you are smart enough to know that I am right with what I am saying and you often confirming it and then sometimes delete it Smiley

now lets see if you remember our racer game with the unique Jackpot in those times. you called it "Ingenious" and we were very proud to hear it from you the MP owner. as I understood you also tried to code it for MP and new MP owners not long ago completed the coding and added it to their API

it looked like this


link
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1110445.msg12028510#msg12028510

the Jackpot was coded that 1% and more was going to MP or/and investors to payout in case a Jackpot is hit. in case a whale was playing ( and there were some) the %age was higher than 1% and it went to MP or/and investors. that was the reason that the JP accumulated to about 8 BTC

on 23rd of Decmeber the JP was


link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1110445.msg13340327#msg13340327
I am not sure when the MP sale was finalized but you will know the date best

a user posted this on the 30th of December ( Jackpot accumulated to 4.7 BTC)


link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1110445.msg13402461#msg13402461


on April 04 2016 the JP was 7.78 BTC and when we closed the JP was above 8 BTC

lets say in December 2015 when you sold MP the JP was about 5 BTC. did you gave those 5 BTC on to the new owner so in case the JP is hit they could pay it out? I mean they would need to pay it even out of their own pocket if the JP would have been hit after the sale.

and my question to Dogedigital: where are those 8 BTC? we didn't ge it but you or/and the investors must have pocket it. you are blaming Jackpotracer app has cost you guys a lot LOL what a nice laugh. we brought many customers to MP and coins!

I hope this helped to understand my question before



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August 12, 2017, 05:46:03 AM
 #47

Holy shit. JackpotRacer you're a certifiable idiot.

I am asking questions to get straight forward answers thats all. as long you guys are not telling lies and not bullshitting I am fine and that I am unpleasant thats fine for me because I see the truth hurts! I also know that you are smart enough to know that I am right with what I am saying and you often confirming it and then sometimes delete it Smiley

I've deleted some of my posts in the past because I was too much of an asshole, which I tend to always regret. But don't worry, I've carefully reviewed the tone of this one to make sure I wouldn't say anything I could possibly regret.

Quote
now lets see if you remember our racer game with the unique Jackpot in those times. you called it "Ingenious" and we were very proud to hear it from you the MP owner. as I understood you also tried to code it for MP and new MP owners not long ago completed the coding and added it to their API

I do not remember any of these events. But for the record I have not been involved in MP in any capacity ever since I sold it. However the JPR game just used the standard MP api which was there from day 1.

Quote
lets say in December 2015 when you sold MP the JP was about 5 BTC. did you gave those 5 BTC on to the new owner so in case the JP is hit they could pay it out? I mean they would need to pay it even out of their own pocket if the JP would have been hit after the sale.


For a moment I was a bit confused. I thought you must have bought the JPR account considering you don't even know how your own app worked. But then it wouldn't explain how two different people could be so annoying, so I guess the simple explanation is you're just a moron who literally forgot how his own app worked.

The jackpot funds never exited. It was an illusion. Each bet had 3 outcomes: WIN (normal), LOSE, HIT JACKPOT.  The probabilities and payouts were designed such that it was always +EV and +EBG from MP's perspective. (e.g. a player might make a bet that has a 49% chance of making 0.1 BTC, ~51% of 0.1 BTC, and a 1 in million chance of hitting a 10 BTC jackpot).

Then to make the "JACKPOT" win part look more impressive, your app would continually increase the size of the jackpot (while decreasing the probability of winning it) to maintain a neutral EV (which iirc was around ~0.01x of what the person wagered). If you don't believe me, look up the bet id of one of the old bets and look at the multiple outcomes and probabilities and EV.


So next time you want to imply I stole money, you should do so for money that actually existed. If you feel like apologizing, that would be appreciated.


Quote
I hope this helped to understand my question before

It indeed did.
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August 12, 2017, 11:38:15 AM
 #48

Holy shit. JackpotRacer you're a certifiable idiot.

I am asking questions to get straight forward answers thats all. as long you guys are not telling lies and not bullshitting I am fine and that I am unpleasant thats fine for me because I see the truth hurts! I also know that you are smart enough to know that I am right with what I am saying and you often confirming it and then sometimes delete it Smiley

I've deleted some of my posts in the past because I was too much of an asshole, which I tend to always regret. But don't worry, I've carefully reviewed the tone of this one to make sure I wouldn't say anything I could possibly regret.

Quote
now lets see if you remember our racer game with the unique Jackpot in those times. you called it "Ingenious" and we were very proud to hear it from you the MP owner. as I understood you also tried to code it for MP and new MP owners not long ago completed the coding and added it to their API

I do not remember any of these events. But for the record I have not been involved in MP in any capacity ever since I sold it. However the JPR game just used the standard MP api which was there from day 1.

Quote
lets say in December 2015 when you sold MP the JP was about 5 BTC. did you gave those 5 BTC on to the new owner so in case the JP is hit they could pay it out? I mean they would need to pay it even out of their own pocket if the JP would have been hit after the sale.


For a moment I was a bit confused. I thought you must have bought the JPR account considering you don't even know how your own app worked. But then it wouldn't explain how two different people could be so annoying, so I guess the simple explanation is you're just a moron who literally forgot how his own app worked.

The jackpot funds never exited. It was an illusion. Each bet had 3 outcomes: WIN (normal), LOSE, HIT JACKPOT.  The probabilities and payouts were designed such that it was always +EV and +EBG from MP's perspective. (e.g. a player might make a bet that has a 49% chance of making 0.1 BTC, ~51% of 0.1 BTC, and a 1 in million chance of hitting a 10 BTC jackpot).

Then to make the "JACKPOT" win part look more impressive, your app would continually increase the size of the jackpot (while decreasing the probability of winning it) to maintain a neutral EV (which iirc was around ~0.01x of what the person wagered). If you don't believe me, look up the bet id of one of the old bets and look at the multiple outcomes and probabilities and EV.


So next time you want to imply I stole money, you should do so for money that actually existed. If you feel like apologizing, that would be appreciated.


Quote
I hope this helped to understand my question before

It indeed did.

ok if you want to go on like this then I tell you that the IDIOT and MORON is YOU!

if you dont remember just sit quiet and do the DD and then talk!

you even admitting that you dont remember and saying the Jackpot amount was an illusion is telling me that you are same clown as Dogedigital and even worse cause it was never an illusion and proof is that many hit the Jackpot with the same chance if it was for 1 bit or 1000 bits and the chance was always same but the amount of the Jackpot was different according to his wager amount.

Quote
The jackpot funds never exited. It was an illusion. Each bet had 3 outcomes: WIN (normal), LOSE, HIT JACKPOT.  The probabilities and payouts were designed such that it was always +EV and +EBG from MP's perspective. (e.g. a player might make a bet that has a 49% chance of making 0.1 BTC, ~51% of 0.1 BTC, and a 1 in million chance of hitting a 10 BTC jackpot).

we did this kind of Jackpot with the chance of xxx in yyy (I am taking x and y by purpose for now but the numbers are well known) and we didnt earn a satoshi of it. but in your own words you said that this  is an ingenious idea to attract players. but if it is as you are describing it now then the players were fooled and had no chance to hit the Jackpot! be assured that we never would accept this kind of Jackpot because then we would cheat the players. but as you are saying/explaining  it means you wanted to cheat the players!

1 in a million to hit our Jackpot?HuhHuhHuhHuh LOL and I always respected you and your knowledge

if it was the case then you or the new owners changed the chance of hitting the jackpot without telling us and this would be a CHEAT! the chance to hit the jackpot was clearly explained in our FAQs and ABOUT and we never lied to our players!

we had whales playing and they easily could hit the 5-8 BTC Jackpot and you are telling me that the Jackpot amount never existed?HuhHuh?? what if Molloype hit the Jackpot are you telling me he would not be paid cause the Jackpot amount did not exist?Huh or are you telling him right now that he never had a chance to hit this Jackpot?Huh?? because you or the new owner coded our Jackpot so it could not be hit?

this STINKS! if you like or not!

regarding apologizing it is your turn to apologize!

JPR Jackpot 1 in a million chance LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL you Moron

prove it to me and I even dont need to apologize because this would prove that you and the new owners cheated all Racer game players and they should get their money back! how could you accept that we write in FAQs and About our Jackpot is a chance of xxx in yyy but it was 1 in a million?HuhHuh accepting this would make you a partner of a cheat you are saying we did!

YOU DIDNT KNOW HOW OUR JACKPOT WORKED IN THOSE TIMES! you asked many times and asked for changes so the Investors will have a small share ( +EV) and we adjusted it accordingly.

we know our apps very well but you didnt know all your apps because you didnt care to much because the more apps the more turnover and each app owner was a potential player Smiley and to be frank it was a good idea Smiley

............................................................
lets try now to refresh your brain a bit

link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1110445.msg11800954#msg11800954
Interesting! Great seeing someone do something new with the MoneyPot API! Best of luck

Actually, there is a much better way using the MoneyPot API. Because of the way you process jackpots manually, I actually think you have an extremely high risk of being -EV.

Let's take a look at one of payout tables of the bets you're making:https://www.moneypot.com/bets/34410141

First of all, you can omit ranges with 0 payouts, as it's a bit redundant.

I don't fully understand the mechanisms of your game but I'm going to assume in that bet, if the outcome lands between [0, 15342) they get the jackpot. However from the MoneyPot's perspective it's only configured to give them 111.97 bits. What you should do, is tell MoneyPot exactly what the jackpot is (e.g. if it's a small bet, 0.5 BTC or if it's a large bet 1 BTC) and if someone wins it, the jackpot money will come from investors and not you! As a side benefit, it'll force you to modify some of your payouts (or probabilities) so that they are overall +EV


Best luck with your casino! Catch me on slack if you need any help or have any questions

@Ryan

..................................................
JPR answer
link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1110445.msg11801652#msg11801652

@Ryan

thank you for jumping in with your feedback.

you wrote >>>However from the MoneyPot's perspective it's only configured to give them 111.97 bits.<<<

please let me explain and for a more in depth explanation I will catch you on slack Smiley

the user bet was 4 satoshis on horse 1
the jackpot is always adjusting to each wager up to to the 40k max
Jackpot for example for a 1 sat wager is 0.00002799
Jackpot for example for a 2 sat wager is 0.00005599
Jackpot for example for a 4 sat wager as the example you gave shows will pay 0.00011197

the formula for the fair Jackpot payout is
wager x 279936 x 1% = Jackpot
chance to hit the Jackpot is 1 in 279936
as we take 1% for Jackpot payouts the correct and fair payout for a 4 sat wager if hitting the Jackpot is 0.00011197

please let me explain now the Jackpot for the max 40k sat wager
40k x 279936 x 1% = 1.119744

to compare it with a lottery it would be like a lottery OP with a chance of 279936 to win the only prize and a lottery ticket prize of 1$ should have a fair payout of 297936 $ without keeping any amount for him. but in general lottery OPs take down a nice percentage before paying out the main prize.

I hope this makes sense. and if I missed something please let me know

we could give higher max wager adjusting to MP BR but then we would need to redo the Jackpot math and payout.

cheers

.....................................
Ryan answer
link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1110445.msg11805588#msg11805588

Ah, I see! Yeah, that makes sense. Well done =)

......................................................

JACKPOTRACER NEVER CHEATED THEIR FINE PLAYERS! WE posted our Rules very clear and understandable!

enough for now!

BTW
why dont you answer my question? it is an easy KC question for a maths guy like you but maybe the answer could show that you are only talking BS when it is connected to JPR

our Lottery had a House Edge of 9.22%

let me ask you how much could a player win max at a game with 9.22% HE  with a 1000 bits bet in case you have 1x kelly and 1000 BTC Bank Roll?



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August 12, 2017, 02:16:26 PM
 #49

you even admitting that you dont remember and saying the Jackpot amount was an illusion is telling me that you are same clown as Dogedigital and even worse cause it was never an illusion and proof is that many hit the Jackpot with the same chance if it was for 1 bit or 1000 bits and the chance was always same but the amount of the Jackpot was different according to his wager amount.

The idea that there was a cumulative jackpot was an illusion. There was never funds set aside for that, just that each bet had a smaller-and-smaller chance of winning a bigger-and-bigger payout. From an EV perspective, it was always constant regardless the jackpot size or bet size. Each bet was always kelly-compliant so there was no need to put money aside for the jackpot. The payout just kept growing (with a smaller chance of winning) and was called a "jackpot" but was completely a arbitrary number, just an amount that could be won. You could make it anything (as long as the bet stayed kelly-compliant)

Quote
but if it is as you are describing it now then the players were fooled and had no chance to hit the Jackpot! be assured that we never would accept this kind of Jackpot because then we would cheat the players. but as you are saying/explaining  it means you wanted to cheat the players!

Players were not cheated, they had a chance of hitting the jackpot.

Quote
1 in a million to hit our Jackpot?HuhHuhHuhHuh LOL and I always respected you and your knowledge

I was giving numbers for illustration. If you want to know the actual figures, go and look up one of the old best you made. The probability of hitting the jackpot is encoded in the bet as a payout.



Quote
if it was the case then you or the new owners changed the chance of hitting the jackpot without telling us and this would be a CHEAT! the chance to hit the jackpot was clearly explained in our FAQs and ABOUT and we never lied to our players!

we had whales playing and they easily could hit the 5-8 BTC Jackpot and you are telling me that the Jackpot amount never existed?HuhHuh?? what if Molloype hit the Jackpot are you telling me he would not be paid cause the Jackpot amount did not exist?Huh or are you telling him right now that he never had a chance to hit this Jackpot?Huh?? because you or the new owner coded our Jackpot so it could not be hit?

this STINKS! if you like or not!

Again, each bet had a certain chance of hitting the jackpot...  It was completely provably fair, you can just look at the bet.


Quote
regarding apologizing it is your turn to apologize!

JPR Jackpot 1 in a million chance LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL you Moron

Welcome to my ignore list. This will be the last time I see or reply to a message of yours.
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August 12, 2017, 03:30:14 PM
 #50

you even admitting that you dont remember and saying the Jackpot amount was an illusion is telling me that you are same clown as Dogedigital and even worse cause it was never an illusion and proof is that many hit the Jackpot with the same chance if it was for 1 bit or 1000 bits and the chance was always same but the amount of the Jackpot was different according to his wager amount.

The idea that there was a cumulative jackpot was an illusion. There was never funds set aside for that, just that each bet had a smaller-and-smaller chance of winning a bigger-and-bigger payout. From an EV perspective, it was always constant regardless the jackpot size or bet size. Each bet was always kelly-compliant so there was no need to put money aside for the jackpot. The payout just kept growing (with a smaller chance of winning) and was called a "jackpot" but was completely a arbitrary number, just an amount that could be won. You could make it anything (as long as the bet stayed kelly-compliant)

Quote
but if it is as you are describing it now then the players were fooled and had no chance to hit the Jackpot! be assured that we never would accept this kind of Jackpot because then we would cheat the players. but as you are saying/explaining  it means you wanted to cheat the players!

Players were not cheated, they had a chance of hitting the jackpot.

Quote
1 in a million to hit our Jackpot?HuhHuhHuhHuh LOL and I always respected you and your knowledge

I was giving numbers for illustration. If you want to know the actual figures, go and look up one of the old best you made. The probability of hitting the jackpot is encoded in the bet as a payout.



Quote
if it was the case then you or the new owners changed the chance of hitting the jackpot without telling us and this would be a CHEAT! the chance to hit the jackpot was clearly explained in our FAQs and ABOUT and we never lied to our players!

we had whales playing and they easily could hit the 5-8 BTC Jackpot and you are telling me that the Jackpot amount never existed?HuhHuh?? what if Molloype hit the Jackpot are you telling me he would not be paid cause the Jackpot amount did not exist?Huh or are you telling him right now that he never had a chance to hit this Jackpot?Huh?? because you or the new owner coded our Jackpot so it could not be hit?

this STINKS! if you like or not!

Again, each bet had a certain chance of hitting the jackpot...  It was completely provably fair, you can just look at the bet.


Quote
regarding apologizing it is your turn to apologize!

JPR Jackpot 1 in a million chance LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL you Moron

Welcome to my ignore list. This will be the last time I see or reply to a message of yours.

I dont give you a chance to delete this posting!

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August 13, 2017, 05:54:08 AM
 #51

Holy shit. JackpotRacer you're a certifiable idiot.

Quote
For a moment I was a bit confused. I thought you must have bought the JPR account considering you don't even know how your own app worked. But then it wouldn't explain how two different people could be so annoying, so I guess the simple explanation is you're just a moron who literally forgot how his own app worked.


The truth about Moneypot becomes the truth about JPR.


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August 18, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
 #52

Glad I pulled out of this one early.

Would be much poorer if I didn't - https://bitcoingamblingreviews.com/bitcoin-gambling-investment/

  Cheesy

BTC
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REVIEWS ★★★★★
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August 18, 2017, 01:19:14 PM
 #53

Glad I pulled out of this one early.

Would be much poorer if I didn't - https://bitcoingamblingreviews.com/bitcoin-gambling-investment/

  Cheesy

why did you pull out that early from Moneypot?

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