Bitcoin as a savings account

[Exoskeleton]

sorry but stfu exo your talking crap...

while its tru this could be exploited by someone with wealth, sadly its joe soap just scraping by that gets caught out by this crap...

Troll Wars, Episode 3

STFU? Really? Did you read my post? No?

Read it again kid.

I feel for "joe soap" (is he a relative of "joe sixpack" or "joe the plumber" because he sounds like one of those tea party anti-tax shills) but I think I made a good point and for you to dismiss my post with a blanket "stfu" is as childish as it gets.

[1714897102]

1714897102

[evilscoop]

it was 4am and ive been up all night....best yer gonna get

[JimCGSavings]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. As many have already stated, while a physical paper (laminated) wallet is a good way to keep your bitcoins secure, "betting the farm" on a savings of strictly bitcoin is probably not the smartest move right now. If you have a coinbase account, two-factor authentication is another good way to get that "warm fuzzy". All you need is an app called "Authy" - research it at www.coinbase.com if you've never heard of this before.

I wish you the best my friend.

There's no farm to bet. I've looked at Coinbase and it does appear to be one of the safer US based exchanges, if that can be said of a US based exchange. The two-factor authentication is an app? Our budget doesn't include smartphones. Besides, I'm old, and I hate those teeny-tiny screens and keyboards you youngsters all use on them phone thingys. (grin)

[JimCGSavings]

also worth a read :-
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17240.0

That's the Linux USB2 stick wallet? Did that and it ran really really slow on my system. I remember thinking "god somebody please hack my system and take any coins on here so I never have to access this again". (grin) I'm oldschool tech. I've always relied on the fact that if worse comes to worse, I can format c: and start over. But wrapping my brain around value in the form of a bunch of ascii, and how to keep that secure is messing with me. I'll keep reading and I'm sure I'll get it eventually.

[JimCGSavings]

Sorry to hear about your wife.

Thanks for the sentiment, but it's just life. Until the singularity at least. (grin)

[JimCGSavings]

While the info about your wife (if true) is sad, you are not doing the right thing here...Stop polluting our forum with this pseudo-illegal bs. You don't need bitcoins to illegally hide wealth.

Let me start with how much I love the phrase "pseudo-illegal bs." This thread does seem to be turning into a sympathy massage. Didn't want that. Was basically looking for reassurance that if I decided to invest in Bitcoins before I fully understood the tech, paper wallet was the safest way to go. As for the rest of your opinions about me and my situation, you're free to have them and express them. But I think I will continue to pollute your forum (at least the newbie area where it seems to be on topic) with mine. Can't find my kite at the moment and I'm bored. (grin)

I started as a rational-anarchist and swerved into a jacksonian (google John Ringo if your interested). The reality of our situation has turned me into someone trying to survive the destruction of my financial class by a government seemingly determined to use ever more blatant tactics to continue the rapid transfer of wealth from everyone else to the wealthiest few, at both the federal and state level. Birds gotta fly, people gotta eat. And let me finish by at least using the word "Bitcoin"at least once, so I don't feel this response is completely off topic. Even for a noob.

[cal_guy]

Seems like a safe deposit box would be a better bet. You could also consider insurance on the appliances you need, and apparently metal shingles.

[FlyLord]

So you're aware the value of bitcoins is probably more volatile than the stock markets? And that unlike the stock market it's not guaranteed to have an overall upward trend? You'd probably have an easier time putting your money elsewhere ...

[JimCGSavings]

Seems like a safe deposit box would be a better bet. You could also consider insurance on the appliances you need, and apparently metal shingles.

Any cash in a safe deposit box is counted as income. Expenditure is not income. If the government does not consider Bitcoin a currency or asset(at least when held by an individual), but merely an expenditure, then I can "pseudo-legally" own them without violating the savings rule. At least until they close that loophole.

[DMIS]

So you're aware the value of bitcoins is probably more volatile than the stock markets? And that unlike the stock market it's not guaranteed to have an overall upward trend? You'd probably have an easier time putting your money elsewhere ...

+1

[JimCGSavings]

So you're aware the value of bitcoins is probably more volatile than the stock markets? And that unlike the stock market it's not guaranteed to have an overall upward trend? You'd probably have an easier time putting your money elsewhere ...

I live with this twisted reality, so I guess that's why everyone is missing it. Stocks, Bonds, etc., are all considered either new assets or income. We are not allowed to exceed our set monthly income or she loses medicaid. We can't afford or even access the services she needs to stay alive, without it. Hence the interest in something that only holds "potential" value where the government is concerned.

[FlyLord]

So have you considered opening an IRA? Some IRA's are tax sheltered and from the sounds of it you should also be able to get the tax refunds that come with it. Given how the market is reaching records high it's probably the best place to put your money without negatively affecting your financial situation. You mentioned medicaid, so I'm assuming you're in the US.

You should be able to put around 5K into an IRA in a given year (the cap changes).

[zippy_doo]

personally I would get a different insurance plan

[JimCGSavings]

So have you considered opening an IRA? Some IRA's are tax sheltered and from the sounds of it you should also be able to get the tax refunds that come with it. Given how the market is reaching records high it's probably the best place to put your money without negatively affecting your financial situation. You mentioned medicaid, so I'm assuming you're in the US.

You should be able to put around 5K into an IRA in a given year (the cap changes).

I'll look into it. If I can set it up so that funding goes directly into it without sitting in our bank account for any taxable period of time, it might pass the test. Thanks. Yes, we're in the U.S.

[JENNIFER_SUSAN]

While the info about your wife (if true) is sad, you are not doing the right thing here. The reason the gov does not give out free money to people with large bank accounts is because those people can pay for expenses themselves. You should pay what you can, as unfair as it may seem to you, and then if what you have left is not enough you can then apply for gov handouts.

If you want to be greedy and take/keep every penny you earn then get a saftey deposit box and keep your cash in it.

This is simple people. Bitcoin is not needed to hide wealth. This has been happening since before there were computers. You don't need a big mattress to hide your money. Bitcoin is not the answer to your "problem". Your problem is that you won't pay what society has said you should pay for your wifes care from your own pocket first. You want to take my/our money first.

Im not trying to start a debate about the law that says you being broke because of medical expenses is fair.

I personally think this is often totaly unfair. I am a "socialist" who thinks that medical care is a basic right. I am willing to pay my share for your wifes care. But we "socialists" are becoming a small minority in a greed driven world. I am willing to bet you are like 80%+ of other humans today and you would be calling foul on your situation if you were not in it. You complain about high taxes, but the fact is if you want your free money, someone else is paying 2x what they should be to fund your lifestyle. We buy your bitcoins. People like you who hide money from being taxed fairly are the reason why taxes are so damned high.

Stop polluting our forum with this pseudo-illegal bs. You don't need bitcoins to illegally hide wealth.

i agree with you, 'Exoskeleton'. We shouldn't hide our wealth illegally.

[Galahad]

The thing is some people save all their lives and put it into accounts for rainy days and some people blow it all. But the people who do the right thing have to pay for care homes and medical bills until there's nothing left and the others just get it all for free. Any inheritance for the kids is destroyed and irresponsibility is rewarded. I support the OP in his decision to put some away where the tax man can't get it.

Of course if he was a retired GP and had a barn full of money I'd not be keep on the idea as he can then afford the bill without much of a loss to himself.

[aymar_est]

Forget it if you think short term.

[Peter Lambert]

My wife has dementia and I've had to quit work to take care of her full-time. We get by, just barely, on our fixed income. The most frustrating thing about our situation is the "requirement" that we NOT exceed the maximum allowed income for her to remain qualified for Medicaid. This would include any money in a savings account. Bitcoin seems to be an ideal way to build a savings account without the worry of saving cash in our house. Would a laminated paper wallet be the best way to secure it?

I believe I suggested using bitcoins in this manner sometime in 2011. Maybe I can find the post ... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9879.0

You just have to be careful how you make withdrawals from your savings. I don't know how much detail they go into when reviewing your case, but if you have to turn in a monthly bank statement or something like that, it might raise some eyebrows if you have a bunch of unexplained deposits from Dwolla, that would look like income.

[Exoskeleton]

Well thanks everybody for not taking me to war on my own little rant. JimCGSavings, feel free and continue this thread all you want. Im not the forum police.    We did have a few people on here trying to speak in code about using bitcoins to obtain drugs and worse. Money laundering in all its variations is not prohibited from discussion, but when someone starts asking for advice on how to bend/break the law...you know. Im sure there are websites for that stuff.

Of course we could lower current tax rates for every american and double social spending at the same time by drawing down the military, and closing loopholes, but this is not intended to be a political debate. As a US citizen who makes in the lower five figures I understand the urge to dodge taxes. I just don't want the US to be the next Greece, you know  

Back on topic, I think we all agree that keeping cash somewhere undeclared in cash is better than in bitcoins. Hiding your wealth in bitcoins is the same thing as buying 10 1950's strat guitars, and selling them much later. Items like the right vintage guitars would probably be a safer bet honestly. The problem here is someday you will need to get the money back into cash. When you sell your guitars/bitcoin your obligated to report this as income. Ways around this, yes. Legal to do...

[evilscoop]

* evilscoop bows to exo

i agree we need to make sure the forum never turns into a silk road