Department of Homeland Security

[yocko06]

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now!  You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

I don't believe the attack is on mtgox, .mt gox follows all the rules they are ment to. the attacks will be on company's who are not following aml laws. this is not a problem for bitcoin or mtgox.
To many people have a dig at mtgox but the truth of the matter is bitcoin would still be tiny without it. mtgox was not always this big company, it began very small. All these people who complain about mtgox why don't you make a service better? you can't? then why are you dissing one of the only company's who are really trying?
Don't just spread FUD and hate if you are adding nothing.

[Nemesis]

Ok you want to play Vietnam War debate.... Lets assume you're all Vietnam Vets,... i still sense you dont understand craps about this war so i'm gonna break down a few points for you

+ Vietnam WAS a threat. The American allies were in SouthEastAsia. The war in Vietnam was to CONTAIN the communist from spreading (mainly from Soviet Russia). Vietnam was the KEY in this political warfare
+ America was under stress of all kind of craps (human rights ...etc) while fighting against guerrilla tactics for the first time. They're judged to be brutal but what the fuck you know when a 13 kid suicide bomb you, villages are their fcking bases
+ There are conflicts in communist parties between China and Russia. Frankly Vietnam was mainly supported by Russia. America saw a opportunity to end this world and got in bed with China. Vietnam was no longer a threat as China was already stopping Soviet from spreading South
+ America retreated , turned blind eyes and let the Republic in Vietnam fall. China attacked Vietnam and spread their own political parties to Cambodia and Myanmar.

Its a shame that very few American get to learn about this war. Heck i'm not even American.

So whenever America fears something it should grab some guns and start killing people? You would have been a great senatorial page for Joseph McCarthy.

So you know how great the threat was? nah you dont, you're rambling bs. Lets say US just sit there minding their own land, then what would happen when Cuba was supplied nuclear warhead and missile? You sound like a redneck than anything.

The whole point was America noticed military power from Soviet Russia. (they're the one defeating the Germany). The last thing they risk was to have a war on their own land. As for economical growth, having allies and political influences all around the world helps tremendously. The economy was booming like no tmr in the 70s and 80s.

Ofcourse, redneck cant see further than his chicken farm.

[RodeoX]

I think we should resist over regulation of bitcoin. It may even be considered our responsibility. Bitcoin has won the war and is here to stay. Governments that try regulating it to death will only hurt themselves. Places that allow their citizens to use bitcoin will be able to compete internationally in new ways.  

Look at cell phones in Europe vs. America. My Euro friends are always shocked at how crappy and locked down our phone system is. Because of our unholy, lobbyist written rules about cell phones we get less choice at a much higher price. Thanks congress.  

[QuestionAuthority]

Ok you want to play Vietnam War debate.... Lets assume you're all Vietnam Vets,... i still sense you dont understand craps about this war so i'm gonna break down a few points for you

+ Vietnam WAS a threat. The American allies were in SouthEastAsia. The war in Vietnam was to CONTAIN the communist from spreading (mainly from Soviet Russia). Vietnam was the KEY in this political warfare
+ America was under stress of all kind of craps (human rights ...etc) while fighting against guerrilla tactics for the first time. They're judged to be brutal but what the fuck you know when a 13 kid suicide bomb you, villages are their fcking bases
+ There are conflicts in communist parties between China and Russia. Frankly Vietnam was mainly supported by Russia. America saw a opportunity to end this world and got in bed with China. Vietnam was no longer a threat as China was already stopping Soviet from spreading South
+ America retreated , turned blind eyes and let the Republic in Vietnam fall. China attacked Vietnam and spread their own political parties to Cambodia and Myanmar.

Its a shame that very few American get to learn about this war. Heck i'm not even American.

So whenever America fears something it should grab some guns and start killing people? You would have been a great senatorial page for Joseph McCarthy.

So you know how great the threat was? nah you dont, you're rambling bs. Lets say US just sit there minding their own land, then what would happen when Cuba was supplied nuclear warhead and missile? You sound like a redneck than anything.

The whole point was America noticed military power from Soviet Russia. (they're the one defeating the Germany). The last thing they risk was to have a war on their own land. As for economical growth, having allies and political influences all around the world helps tremendously. The economy was booming like no tmr in the 70s and 80s.

Ofcourse, redneck cant see further than his chicken farm.

You know how to tell when someone has an unfounded biased personal belief? When they have to resort to name calling to make a point. I'm really not sure what you have against farm workers though?

[Nemesis]

Ok you want to play Vietnam War debate.... Lets assume you're all Vietnam Vets,... i still sense you dont understand craps about this war so i'm gonna break down a few points for you

+ Vietnam WAS a threat. The American allies were in SouthEastAsia. The war in Vietnam was to CONTAIN the communist from spreading (mainly from Soviet Russia). Vietnam was the KEY in this political warfare
+ America was under stress of all kind of craps (human rights ...etc) while fighting against guerrilla tactics for the first time. They're judged to be brutal but what the fuck you know when a 13 kid suicide bomb you, villages are their fcking bases
+ There are conflicts in communist parties between China and Russia. Frankly Vietnam was mainly supported by Russia. America saw a opportunity to end this world and got in bed with China. Vietnam was no longer a threat as China was already stopping Soviet from spreading South
+ America retreated , turned blind eyes and let the Republic in Vietnam fall. China attacked Vietnam and spread their own political parties to Cambodia and Myanmar.

Its a shame that very few American get to learn about this war. Heck i'm not even American.

So whenever America fears something it should grab some guns and start killing people? You would have been a great senatorial page for Joseph McCarthy.

So you know how great the threat was? nah you dont, you're rambling bs. Lets say US just sit there minding their own land, then what would happen when Cuba was supplied nuclear warhead and missile? You sound like a redneck than anything.

The whole point was America noticed military power from Soviet Russia. (they're the one defeating the Germany). The last thing they risk was to have a war on their own land. As for economical growth, having allies and political influences all around the world helps tremendously. The economy was booming like no tmr in the 70s and 80s.

Ofcourse, redneck cant see further than his chicken farm.

You know how to tell when someone has an unfounded biased personal belief? When they have to resort to name calling to make a point. I'm really not sure what you have against farm workers though?

I have nothing against farmers... They're great and often overlooked. The problem is when farmers start to talk politics and economies, same bs was started in Soviet and Hello Communism.

Every American died in Vietname didnt die in vain. Its easy to judge others decision and not to realize the benefits you got from it.

The ones that suffered the most are the poor Vietnamese ppl. They're nothing but a chess piece. Thanks to the French colony.

[gogxmagog]

difficulty level would just increase accordingly. there are already more than 51% of bitcoins in circulation. so if some illuminati star chamber was even able to create the worlds greatest quantum computer over night they would only get the remaining unmined coins, and not be done until 2140, by which time the foundation could fix the whole problem, no doubt.

stop worrying and go hunt some wasskaly wabbits!

[dmartig]

Ok you want to play Vietnam War debate.... Lets assume you're all Vietnam Vets,... i still sense you dont understand craps about this war so i'm gonna break down a few points for you

+ Vietnam WAS a threat. The American allies were in SouthEastAsia. The war in Vietnam was to CONTAIN the communist from spreading (mainly from Soviet Russia). Vietnam was the KEY in this political warfare
+ America was under stress of all kind of craps (human rights ...etc) while fighting against guerrilla tactics for the first time. They're judged to be brutal but what the fuck you know when a 13 kid suicide bomb you, villages are their fcking bases
+ There were conflicts in communist parties between China and Russia. Frankly Vietnam was mainly supported by Russia. America saw a opportunity to end this world and got in bed with China. Vietnam was no longer a threat as China was already stopping Soviet from spreading South
+ America retreated , turned blind eyes and let the Republic in Vietnam fall. China attacked Vietnam and spread their own political parties to Cambodia and Myanmar.

Its a shame that very few American get to learn about this war. Heck i'm not even American.

its a shame that you don't know crap about vietnam and yet not being an amerikan you think you are an expert.
de facto evidence is that communist vietnam was/is / and never will be a threat. they are now in our good graces/
communism did not spread to the rest of se asia.  imagine that. though it did to a couple of countries and only one remains that could be called communist.
our allies were not there. one former ally was there ....france.
this was a holdover from the colonial period. so amerika in its desire to let the people of a country
self determine their own political destiny backed its ally to do exactly the opposite, thereby abandoning any moral
high ground it may have commanded. exhibit a is the gulf of tonkin resolution
for the record the blind eye we turned amounts to over 20 billion a year we pay to vietnam NOW.
so now maybe someone can tell me why we were there and why we should trust our imperial fascist regime and the bogus money they create out of thin air and force on us and the rest of the world at gun point.
if the dhs decides to carry out orders requiring it to do away with bitcoin it will do so with extreme prejudice

[dmartig]

Ok you want to play Vietnam War debate.... Lets assume you're all Vietnam Vets,... i still sense you dont understand craps about this war so i'm gonna break down a few points for you

+ Vietnam WAS a threat. The American allies were in SouthEastAsia. The war in Vietnam was to CONTAIN the communist from spreading (mainly from Soviet Russia). Vietnam was the KEY in this political warfare
+ America was under stress of all kind of craps (human rights ...etc) while fighting against guerrilla tactics for the first time. They're judged to be brutal but what the fuck you know when a 13 kid suicide bomb you, villages are their fcking bases
+ There are conflicts in communist parties between China and Russia. Frankly Vietnam was mainly supported by Russia. America saw a opportunity to end this world and got in bed with China. Vietnam was no longer a threat as China was already stopping Soviet from spreading South
+ America retreated , turned blind eyes and let the Republic in Vietnam fall. China attacked Vietnam and spread their own political parties to Cambodia and Myanmar.

Its a shame that very few American get to learn about this war. Heck i'm not even American.

So whenever America fears something it should grab some guns and start killing people? You would have been a great senatorial page for Joseph McCarthy.

So you know how great the threat was? nah you dont, you're rambling bs. Lets say US just sit there minding their own land, then what would happen when Cuba was supplied nuclear warhead and missile? You sound like a redneck than anything.

The whole point was America noticed military power from Soviet Russia. (they're the one defeating the Germany). The last thing they risk was to have a war on their own land. As for economical growth, having allies and political influences all around the world helps tremendously. The economy was booming like no tmr in the 70s and 80s.

Ofcourse, redneck cant see further than his chicken farm.

You know how to tell when someone has an unfounded biased personal belief? When they have to resort to name calling to make a point. I'm really not sure what you have against farm workers though?

I have nothing against farmers... They're great and often overlooked. The problem is when farmers start to talk politics and economies, same bs was started in Soviet and Hello Communism.

Every American died in Vietname didnt die in vain. Its easy to judge others decision and not to realize the benefits you got from it.

The ones that suffered the most are the poor Vietnamese ppl. They're nothing but a chess piece. Thanks to the French colony.

just what is it you are smoking.
the best thing that can happen is for farmers to talk politics and economics. are you some kind of european elitist?
of course farmers now only make up about 2% of the population so it is irrelevant
every amerikan who died in vietnam died in vain. unless of course you owned stock in dow, dupont, lockheed, raytheon, hughes.....then you appreciated the sacrifices someone else's son made for you.
find a thread to join where you might have a clue about what people are talking about

[BTC Books]

...and this is why politics is as bad and as log-jammed as it is today.  Why nothing ever gets done except for all of us getting sucked down further and further into the cesspool of authoritarian, corporatist bullshit.  Why atmospheric CO2 just hit 400ppm and the RIAA is allowed to destroy the concept of ownership.  Why Monsanto is declared the owner of the world's food supply and no country deserves any help if even one citizen of it has ever looked at a condom.

This bread and circus crap is why most of the world has been convinced that serfdom is a desirable thing and voting against your own self-interest - against health care, against education, and yes; against a sound financial structure - is the only path to personal success.

People who spend all of their time looking to the past have no future.

Stupid fucks.  Let it go.

[erik777]

If you don't beleive in having a system of government (to build roads, regulate enviromental pollution, capture murderers, ect) then I can not continue this debate with you or anyone who holds this extreme viewpoint.

Have fun with collapsing bridges, local rivers on fire, and every serial killer alive walking free. A world without government would last a day before we decend into primative killing and pollution. Shiting in buckets and dying from basic wounds because of no sanitation or running plumbing (clean water) comes on week two. "Government is evil", really? No it is not. As one man once said "politics/government are how we make decisions without killing each other". Anarchy would be fun untill I put a bullet in your head because your wife is not sucking me off...

While I'm not going to suggest that anarchy is better or try to defend it, your description of it is not objective because it leaves out vigilantism and mob rule and assumes the worst outcome.  For instance, local people can put together a posse to pursue and disable a murderer.  Anarchy does not rule out people working together or cooperating to accomplish goals.  It just bars a central authority as having dominion over the masses, if I understand it correctly. 

In theory, if everyone had that same gun that you imagine you having to command control over a husband and wife, you might be a bit more concerned about the outcome of putting a bullet in anyone.  But, in a society where only a fraction of the people are armed because a central authority stripped the populace of defence, you might be more free to commit your hostilities. 

This is not to say that anarchy will have a better outcome.  It is just presumptuous to conclude the worst possible outcome.  It is also presumptuous to say that people are safe because there is government.  Why does the murder rate increase as population density increases even though police can arrive more quickly? 
 

"From 1976 to 1998 changes in homicide trends were driven by changes
in the number of homicides in large American cities (defined as cities
with populations of 100,000 or more).  Over half of the homicides
during this period occurred in large cities; almost a quarter of the
homicides occurred in cities with a population of more than 1 million. 
Small cities are defined as those with a population of less than 100,000."

source: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/usrv98.txt

In the short term (the next 15 minutes), there is very little difference between living in a rural area and anarchy because the only one who can defend your home is you and your family. 

[QuestionAuthority]

Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it. ~ Edmund Burke

[Exoskeleton]

For instance, local people can put together a posse to pursue and disable a murderer.  Anarchy does not rule out people working together or cooperating to accomplish goals.

Yep, they can. And history has such a great record of these "mobs" and "posses" settling situations in a fair and unobjective way...

[Dharmadog]

1.  MtGox has a pretty good handle on this incident and they do not seem overly rattled for a lot of reasons. 
2.  All those in the government and other big business who keep talking about BitCoin being of no concern are obviously very concerned.
3.  Dwolla lacks balls and/or a legal department.  (Not sayin' they could have avoided this based on the US laws but...).
4.  This isn't gonna stop any time soon.
5.  A truly decentralized crypto-currency needs to find a way to work around these concerns.

[Chaoskampf]

If you're into massively convoluted schemes to compromise the power structures that be....or just bored


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207764.0

[abbyd]

     
        This is not a time for merely accepting government action as it is handed out. We can not let these shameless impingements on our basic rights be applied without resistance. Why do they expect us to sit behind our computer screens and merely act in reactionary clicks and types as our freedoms are legislated away from us? Because that's been the precedent that we have set.

Probably past time for /thread, but here's a quote for you:

  The fundamental political question is why do people
obey a government. The answer is that they tend to
enslave themselves, to let themselves be governed by
tyrants. Freedom from servitude comes not from violent
action, but from the refusal to serve. Tyrants fall
when the people withdraw their support.

1577 Etienne de La Boetie

[murrekatt]

For the ones that missed a great TED talk by Lawrence Lessig about Lesterland (USA).

http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html

[jbreher]

For instance, local people can put together a posse to pursue and disable a murderer.  Anarchy does not rule out people working together or cooperating to accomplish goals.

Yep, they can. And history has such a great record of these "mobs" and "posses" settling situations in a fair and unobjective way...

Meanwhile, on channel two, approximately fifty percent of everything anyone has ever worked for is forcibly confiscated under the pretense of 'government'.

[antimattercrusader]

     
Why do they expect us to sit behind our computer screens and merely act in reactionary clicks and types as our freedoms are legislated away from us? Because that's been the precedent that we have set.

+1.

Why care about what is happen around us when some sports team played some other team and lost? Or better yet... one of the Kardasians flashed her vagina? That is what is important! (
lol I couldn't resist. I flip the Kardasians a lot of well deserved shit.)

But seriously... I think this battle needs to be taken (and won) outside of the United States. The American people are probably not going to care much about any of this one way or another, unless it is somehow presented in a manner that related to our lives in the next few days/months. Big picture thinking is typically not valued. Unfortuently, my guess is the presentation will probably be mostly negative, and people will believe what the media says. (Although I have been surprised, it's not all negative.)

We need to take it to China or another "new money" country. If we can get people in those locations onboard, and start it spreading, the US will have to adopt or we will fall farther and farther behind the rest of the world. 

Speaking of possible places to try to implement, I think some African nations might be ideal because:
- They typically have unstable currencies and that must annoy the people (Look at Liberty Reserve and similar, doing well over there)
- They frequently use mobile phone based payment solutions, so are familiar with electronic mobile payments
- Can be difficult to send money in/out of some of the more unstable countries, bitcoin would solve this.

I know it sounds counter intuitive that their (In some people's opinion) primitive financial system is a good place for bitcoin, but look at it like this... Asia (China specifically) has a high adoption of mobile phone technology and lower adoption of land line based communications because they simply skipped a step in that development stage. Perhaps Africa is a prime location to "skip" the whole checking/credit card/debit card, traditional banking step. Don't waste time building an antiquated infrastructure, and jump straight to the future...

[Chaoskampf]

     
Why do they expect us to sit behind our computer screens and merely act in reactionary clicks and types as our freedoms are legislated away from us? Because that's been the precedent that we have set.

Perhaps Africa is a prime location to "skip" the whole checking/credit card/debit card, traditional banking step. Don't waste time building an antiquated infrastructure, and jump straight to the future...

I would not be surprised if that were the case. After all, Zimbabwe is a great example to other African nations as to what debt-money means for their country. There's actually already a large financial infrastructure already established in most of Africa. The problem is, it's destroying other infrastructures (agricultural, telecommunications, cultural...etc)

[luv2drnkbr]

You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Not all fighting is obligated to be with a fist or a gun

Sadly, that is the game theory outcome.  If you do not come to an agreement, you can always simply capture or kill your opponent and do what you want to do anyway.  If he refuses to use violence to protect himself, you can always win.