[VMC] Official Virtual Mining Corporation Discussion

[EngMan]

Thanks to this self-moderated thread...I know I'm not interested. You have no proof of a product. Just signed NDA's a few links and pics and a lot of deleted posts. Many of the people here posting could whip up something similar in an hour and listed it.

Before I read this thread, I saw your product. I then when through what I call the "BFL trust process". I didn't trust them (BFL) long ago and I feel good for avoiding their products. I feel the same about you...So why aren't you the new BFL?

Good luck with your business venture!

[1715461582]

1715461582

[Syke]

World's First Upgradable Bitcoin Mining Machine

You can can't stop from claiming "First" when you're not the first. Not even close.

[RoadStress]

World's First Upgradable Bitcoin Mining Machine

You can can't stop from claiming "First" when you're not the first. Not even close.

He likes SEO posts!

[Ytterbium]

It's gonna be very interesting to see how KnC will pull 100GH/s chips at ~250W each.

First, without using liquid cooling you need a heatskink+fan the size of a graphics card, for each chip, to have the necessary surface area for that much dissipation.

Second, I think it's a very very bad move to have big 100GH/s chips like that. What if one breaks??? You lose 100GH presto, especially on systems running 24/7!

here's the heatsink they're planning on using.  (see here)

As you can see, they're gigantic, even larger then a typical GPU cooler and rated at 320 watts cooling capacity.

As far as breaking a chip goes, they do have a warranty, they haven't given any details on it but it would surprise me if they'd be willing overnight you a new module if it breaks, but it also seems unlikely that one would just break once you got it up and running, chips typically either work don't.

The chips are also designed with multiple domains that can be disabled if they're not working

[Vbs]

It's gonna be very interesting to see how KnC will pull 100GH/s chips at ~250W each.

First, without using liquid cooling you need a heatskink+fan the size of a graphics card, for each chip, to have the necessary surface area for that much dissipation.

Second, I think it's a very very bad move to have big 100GH/s chips like that. What if one breaks??? You lose 100GH presto, especially on systems running 24/7!

Third, I'm still puzzled why are they only getting 0.4GH/s/W on 28nm? Even bitfury gets much better than that on 45nm and the Fast-Hash-One is more than 1GH/s/W too.

While this thread isn't about KnC, it's about VMC I'll entertain you.

The Heatsink/fan will be rather large for each chip, but it fits inside the dimensions of the case they've been advertising for a long time now so I'm not sure how this is relevant.

Chips don't usually break.... They also have a warranty on them. I'd say it has a similar chance of breaking as your GPU miner (which will be running much hotter more than likely)

They don't want to under deliver. When the actual chip comes out and they test it, it will more than likely be a lot better than that. But in the mean time, do the math on how much you will be spending on Electric. It will come up to be less than $85/month difference if in fact it is 1,000W vs 400W. By the time this small amount matters there will be next gen ASICs available.

Bigger dies are actually EASIER to cool than all the little small chips.

The only thing that matters is surface area vs heat dissipated. It has nothing to do with the amount of chips. It is much harder to dissipate 250W of heat in a 55x55 area than 250W of heat in many small chips, where the total surface area is bigger. The smaller the total area, the more quality is needed in chip manufacturing, thermal interfaces, etc. A recent example of this is when Intel changed to TIM on Ivy Bridge heat spreader vs Fluxless solder on Sandy Bridge which was much better. Unless the cooling is top notch, small surface areas will always work at an increased temperature (this is pure thermodynamics, as the thermal resistance is higher), reducing operating life due to increased electromigration, especially on 24/7.

It will only have the same chance of breaking as a GPU miner if they are manufactured with the same quality constraints as a GPU miner. Let's hope they don't cut any corners then.

Energy efficiency is what matters in the end, since any system will mine at a profit until it doesn't pay the electricity bill anymore. Using ~12W chips, at 1000W, you can get 1,333 TH/s.

This is 28nm. There is no 'next-gen' for the time being until smaller die sizes are available more generally. Delivering a 'next-gen' product on 28nm again just means the first one wasn't optimized enough. The main advantage of going now to 28nm is some kind of minimal future-proof.

here's the heatsink they're planning on using.  (see here)

As you can see, they're gigantic, even larger then a typical GPU cooler and rated at 320 watts cooling capacity.

As far as breaking a chip goes, they do have a warranty, they haven't given any details on it but it would surprise me if they'd be willing overnight you a new module if it breaks, but it also seems unlikely that one would just break once you got it up and running, chips typically either work don't.

The chips are also designed with multiple domains that can be disabled if they're not working

Thanks for the links.

Considering everything, their manufacturing cost will have to be quite high for each unit, as all the eggs are really in the same basket.

[KSGuy]

There sure has been a lot of activity on btct in the last 12 hours, I made a few trades last night then figured it would drop by morning. Well it went up to .0047 
I was expecting it to bottom out around .002

Wonder why all the activity last night?

[Bitcoinorama]

I'm confused, why is AMC registered in London?! In what looks like a South Ken postcode, although prob a boiler room/virtual office addy. Even so, why London?

[kslaughter]

I'm confused, why is AMC registered in London?! In what looks like a South Ken postcode, although prob a boiler room/virtual office addy. Even so, why London?

AMC is not registered in London, it is registered in Belize.  It just has a London address for mail.

[qukkM]

I just bought one. Had contact from their customer service dept within about 30 mins regarding a query I sent along with the order on the notes for delivery section.

I guess I will see how the timelines work out for them.

[titomane]

Forgive my ignorance. But I'm interested in the product and do not understand something. If based mining costs $ 3,999 and has a hash 256ghs.
Why is the expansion of 256ghs costs $ 4,999?
Why is the expansion kit same pintura of Avalon module?
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=12&controller=product

Your most powerful miner has 24576ghs and cost 538838$. But if I buy 96 base miner cost 383904$ with same hashrate. is completely illogical. in a market where the buyer does better price higher.

Why I will buy 100 chips (ghs 1600) for $ 30,000 or 60000$? If 7 simple miners have hashrate of 1792ghs for less than 28000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product  30000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=18&controller=product  60000$


Thanks

[kslaughter]

Forgive my ignorance. But I'm interested in the product and do not understand something. If based mining costs $ 3,999 and has a hash 256ghs.
Why is the expansion of 256ghs costs $ 4,999?
Why is the expansion kit same pintura of Avalon module?
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=12&controller=product


Thanks

Great price on the Base unit at this time.  We are still in the process of engineering our board and our ASIC chip and do not have pictures yet.  eASIC is doing the engineering of our chip using their Fast Turnaround Process.

[titomane]

Forgive my ignorance. But I'm interested in the product and do not understand something. If based mining costs $ 3,999 and has a hash 256ghs.
Why is the expansion of 256ghs costs $ 4,999?
Why is the expansion kit same pintura of Avalon module?
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=12&controller=product


Thanks

Great price on the Base unit at this time.  We are still in the process of engineering our board and our ASIC chip and do not have pictures yet.  eASIC is doing the engineering of our chip using their Fast Turnaround Process.

Your most powerful miner has 24576ghs and cost 538838$. But if I buy 96 base miner cost 383904$ with same hashrate. is completely illogical. in a market where the buyer does better price higher.

Why I will buy 100 chips (ghs 1600) for $ 30,000 or 60000$? If 7 simple miners have hashrate of 1792ghs for less than 28000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product  30000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=18&controller=product  60000$


Thanks

[kslaughter]

Your most powerful miner has 24576ghs and cost 538838$. But if I buy 96 base miner cost 383904$ with same hashrate. is completely illogical. in a market where the buyer does better price higher.

When you buy 96 base miners the space taken up is 384 U's, when you buy the 24.576 GH/s unit the space taken up is only 34 U's
 

Why I will buy 100 chips (ghs 1600) for $ 30,000 or 60000$? If 7 simple miners have hashrate of 1792ghs for less than 28000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product  30000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=18&controller=product  60000$

The base unit is a great buy now.  You should buy all you can.

[titomane]

Your most powerful miner has 24576ghs and cost 538838$. But if I buy 96 base miner cost 383904$ with same hashrate. is completely illogical. in a market where the buyer does better price higher.

When you buy 96 base miners the space taken up is 384 U's, when you buy the 24.576 GH/s unit the space taken up is only 34 U's
 

Why I will buy 100 chips (ghs 1600) for $ 30,000 or 60000$? If 7 simple miners have hashrate of 1792ghs for less than 28000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product  30000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=18&controller=product  60000$

The base unit is a great buy now.  You should buy all you can.

Thanks for fast answer, but you will lose 155000$ & 90 cases.
Would think would be good for both small and in the large buyers.
If a miner with 10 cards 256ghs [2.56 Ths] costs $ 39,990. It would be more attractive than 49000$


Thanks

[finlof]

Your most powerful miner has 24576ghs and cost 538838$. But if I buy 96 base miner cost 383904$ with same hashrate. is completely illogical. in a market where the buyer does better price higher.

When you buy 96 base miners the space taken up is 384 U's, when you buy the 24.576 GH/s unit the space taken up is only 34 U's
 

Why I will buy 100 chips (ghs 1600) for $ 30,000 or 60000$? If 7 simple miners have hashrate of 1792ghs for less than 28000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product  30000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=18&controller=product  60000$

The base unit is a great buy now.  You should buy all you can.

Thanks for fast answer, but you will lose 155000$ & 90 cases.
Would think would be good for both small and in the large buyers.
If a miner with 10 cards 256ghs [2.56 Ths] costs $ 39,990. It would be more attractive than 49000$


Thanks

you must have a ton of space/power/cooling/etc if you think 384U is the same as 34U.  the "attractive" part of this is the large hashing power in a compact space.

you know what would be more attractive than $49000?  $4900.  any number lower than 49000 is more attractive than 49000...

[trigeek]

you must have a ton of space/power/cooling/etc if you think 384U is the same as 34U.  the "attractive" part of this is the large hashing power in a compact space.

That's easy.  Just take cards out of a bunch of boxes, and fully populate the other ones.  Then throw away a HUGE PILE of extra cases, base boards, and power supplies, and you still paid less.  Or hell, sell the PSU's and cases for scrap and you got it all for even cheaper!

[titomane]

Your most powerful miner has 24576ghs and cost 538838$. But if I buy 96 base miner cost 383904$ with same hashrate. is completely illogical. in a market where the buyer does better price higher.

When you buy 96 base miners the space taken up is 384 U's, when you buy the 24.576 GH/s unit the space taken up is only 34 U's
 

Why I will buy 100 chips (ghs 1600) for $ 30,000 or 60000$? If 7 simple miners have hashrate of 1792ghs for less than 28000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product  30000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=18&controller=product  60000$

The base unit is a great buy now.  You should buy all you can.

Thanks for fast answer, but you will lose 155000$ & 90 cases.
Would think would be good for both small and in the large buyers.
If a miner with 10 cards 256ghs [2.56 Ths] costs $ 39,990. It would be more attractive than 49000$


Thanks

you must have a ton of space/power/cooling/etc if you think 384U is the same as 34U.  the "attractive" part of this is the large hashing power in a compact space.

you know what would be more attractive than $49000?  $4900.  any number lower than 49000 is more attractive than 49000...

If the power consumption and heat dissipation of  miners are  90-95% the chips. The difference in cooling and electric is 5-10%.With $ 150,000 you have to pay the 10% even 30% for years.

[KS]

Your most powerful miner has 24576ghs and cost 538838$. But if I buy 96 base miner cost 383904$ with same hashrate. is completely illogical. in a market where the buyer does better price higher.

When you buy 96 base miners the space taken up is 384 U's, when you buy the 24.576 GH/s unit the space taken up is only 34 U's
 

Why I will buy 100 chips (ghs 1600) for $ 30,000 or 60000$? If 7 simple miners have hashrate of 1792ghs for less than 28000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product  30000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=18&controller=product  60000$

The base unit is a great buy now.  You should buy all you can.

Thanks for fast answer, but you will lose 155000$ & 90 cases.
Would think would be good for both small and in the large buyers.
If a miner with 10 cards 256ghs [2.56 Ths] costs $ 39,990. It would be more attractive than 49000$


Thanks

you must have a ton of space/power/cooling/etc if you think 384U is the same as 34U.  the "attractive" part of this is the large hashing power in a compact space.

you know what would be more attractive than $49000?  $4900.  any number lower than 49000 is more attractive than 49000...

If the power consumption and heat dissipation of  miners are  90-95% the chips. The difference in cooling and electric is 5-10%.With $ 150,000 you have to pay the 10% even 30% for years.

You will probably have to host it in a DC because of power/heat limitations. Given a full 42U rack is usually 1000-2000 USD/month and you need 9-10, not even counting setup costs or power usage. If power doesn't really count, after a year you will not have saved anything and will actually start to loose money wrt the 34U unit. I think that justifies/explains the 150K price difference.

[titomane]

Your most powerful miner has 24576ghs and cost 538838$. But if I buy 96 base miner cost 383904$ with same hashrate. is completely illogical. in a market where the buyer does better price higher.

When you buy 96 base miners the space taken up is 384 U's, when you buy the 24.576 GH/s unit the space taken up is only 34 U's
 

Why I will buy 100 chips (ghs 1600) for $ 30,000 or 60000$? If 7 simple miners have hashrate of 1792ghs for less than 28000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product  30000$
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=18&controller=product  60000$

The base unit is a great buy now.  You should buy all you can.

Thanks for fast answer, but you will lose 155000$ & 90 cases.
Would think would be good for both small and in the large buyers.
If a miner with 10 cards 256ghs [2.56 Ths] costs $ 39,990. It would be more attractive than 49000$


Thanks

you must have a ton of space/power/cooling/etc if you think 384U is the same as 34U.  the "attractive" part of this is the large hashing power in a compact space.

you know what would be more attractive than $49000?  $4900.  any number lower than 49000 is more attractive than 49000...

If the power consumption and heat dissipation of  miners are  90-95% the chips. The difference in cooling and electric is 5-10%.With $ 150,000 you have to pay the 10% even 30% for years.

You will probably have to host it in a DC because of power/heat limitations. Given a full 42U rack is usually 1000-2000 USD/month and you need 9-10, not even counting setup costs or power usage. If power doesn't really count, after a year you will not have saved anything and will actually start to loose money wrt the 34U unit. I think that justifies/explains the 150K price difference.

But you're saying.
Why do you need racks? You prepare a room with cooling system.
If 10% of the power consumption are $ 150,000 a year. That means it consumes 1500000 $ per year in electricity.
If one kWh costs $ 0.15. You need to consume consume 1.1 GWh in elctriciadad 1.5 million in one year.

Almost throw the Delorean "Back to the Future" Buy BTC at 5$   

[qukkM]

Anyone interested in a group buy of one of these units see here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=261109.msg2793928#msg2793928