ICO's killing crypto

[prehisto]

Recent news of the imminent closer of many Chinese exchanges is the direct result of them dealing in ICOs, I've been shocked for the longest time other countries have done so, allowing ICO's to fly under regulators radar, however its only just a matter of time.

No. Thats such an overstatement!

China do not want their money to get away from country, thats it!
They are concerned for their economy.

Also I think that only country which can get away with this is China because of their strict other regulations. in other countries one would just go around this prohibition.

[Hyperme.sh]

Recent news of the imminent closer of many Chinese exchanges is the direct result of them dealing in ICOs, I've been shocked for the longest time other countries have done so, allowing ICO's to fly under regulators radar, however its only just a matter of time.

No. Thats such an overstatement!

China do not want their money to get away from country, thats it!
They are concerned for their economy.

Also I think that only country which can get away with this is China because of their strict other regulations. in other countries one would just go around this prohibition.

I'm trying to understand why you ignore the fact that several nations have warned of a future crackdown coming for ICOs, including the USA, UK, Canada, Hong Kong, and Singapore.

It seems you're determined to promote illegal investment securities and MLM scams, because of your insatible desire for greed at the expense of luring ever more greater fools into the irresistible bubble (because no one wants to be left behind while everyone else is making oodles of money promoting empty bags to the next set of greater fools).

Because humanity can't resist greed and MLM scams. And this is why a world government will be imposed on you fools, because humans can't self-organize and control themselves as individuals. IOW, a tragedy-of-the-commons.

Nevertheless for those who are smart, we'll try to save crypto, offer a better and more sane direction, and try to bring real use cases to the masses while you fools go fall off a cliff into jail and destruction.

[brifs]

You all are ignoring what they are.
As in HOW THEY WORK...

I'm new so if there's a dynamic here that I'm unaware of am not adhering to, that's probably why. feel free to dm me if i violate some norms.

That said, @Spoetnik i understand your sentiment, but I'm not sure I agree with your assessments.

While the atmosphere around ICOs is erratic, that is the natural state of something as fundamentally innovation as the blockchain is technologically and by extension economically. The blockchain and smart contracts are potentially so deflationary that, within the broader contexts of machine learning and globalization, their impact over even the next 10 years is unforeseeable.

The ICO ecosystem is erratic because it's going to create a lot of winners and losers, in terms of incumbents vs. newcomers.

Are we in a cryptoassst bubble?
Yes.

Will it boom and bust many more time before global adoption stabilizes the cryptoassst ecosystem
You can bet on it.

Are smart contracts, and by extension ICO-created cryptoasssts going to achieve global ubiquity?
There's no doubt. It's infinitely better than the status quo for just about every type of transaction.

Are ICOs chock full of scammers?
Yes, but they are nothing more than background noise to folks who see the fundamental value in the blockchain and are building actual product on top of it to possibly make a dent in the world.

Shouldn't this all be illegal for the sake of the blockchain's reputation
It already is. There doesn't need to be any new laws for fraud and embezzlement. All crooks are doing is run-of-the-mill white-collar crime. The ICO is just a new canvas upon which the artist paints their con — it's still the same same painting (if you will).

Will the scammers bring us all down?
For a time, but this too will pass just like it did after the first dot com bubble. Many more people will go to prison this time though. Just like now, in the first dot com there were irrational valuations that baselessly spiraled higher and higher before burning out and going to zero. The difference is that the blatant SEC violations and fraud were no where near the levels they are currently in cryptoassets, at that time in the late-90's/early-2000's.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but I truly believe in cryptoassets. Do I want to do well in the ecosystem? — Yeah sure, but that's not the only reason and that doesn't negate all the other reason's why I or anyone else would be interested in ICOs and crypto more broadly.

My advice to anyone who believes like I do that crypto is going to change everything and is building that change...
Keep your head down on your projects and ignore the BS hype. Have a plan for reducing your burn rates because when the bottom falls out of the cryptoasset market, and it certainly will, your team is going to need to have a long enough runway to see your way to sustainability or a market turn around. Sadly, most projects will not make it through the coming storm. Plan for it.

[Spoetnik]

No ICO dev "needs" money.
If they can't afford to pay for the coin to get launched etc they could simply post the idea for their coin here and someone who has the resources could do it.

Case in point..
The scam coin BLOCKNET

When it launched and the dev asked for a million dollars in Bitcoin i asked him why he needed so much.
He said, "to ensure it's a success"
A year or so later he let the hosting expire on the web site from lack of payments.

EDIT: and he had fuck all coded after getting his million dollar paycheck after a year too !

HAHAHHAHAHHA

Oh and here is the kicker..
He admitted to coding 75% of the coin before he posted his ANN topic which consisted of a little jpeg with a few bullet points.
(a clever way to re-write the topic with out it being saved)

And..
All the little chucklefucks and shitbirds were more than happy to buy the million dollar jpeg on Poloniex and Bittrex.

Because your scummy fucking pieces of shit supporting raw garbage
..for Bitcoin profits
...with stupid bullshit excuses defending ICO's  

[AiloveYouks21]

too many shit coins that just want to get the funds only, too much. The concept is vague and so forth and of course it harms the crypto currency.

[WoodySpoon]

So your solution is to bring regulators into the scene to keep an eye on the market?

ICO's are minuscule in the world of international finance, stop spreading FUD. More investors = more value, not every business can utilize Bitcoins infrastructure, there's more uses to blockchain technology than a single coin.
 

[Cnut237]

I don't think ICOs are killing crypto, ICOs can be a great way of generating publicity and new money and new entrants to cryptoworld. It is just that there are some bad ones and scam ones out there. So it is really a good thing that these will in time have regulations like other businesses. I am not worried at all and think it will be a positivie once the temporary panic calms down a bit.

[Hyperme.sh]

Will the scammers bring us all down?
For a time, but this too will pass just like it did after the first dot com bubble.

I can't think of any dot.com IPO bag that became anything significant?

The significant companies were created from the small and grew into the large, e.g. Friendster, MySpace, Facebook, Google.

I expect the same for ICOs. None of them will end up being anything but speculation pump and dumps. Including Ethereum, NEO, Qtum, EOS, etc..

It's so damn easy to raise funds, that none of these groups has any incentive to actually accomplish anything in terms of real world adoption. It's much more lucrative to go start a new ICO and raise more money. Daniel Larimer is for example on his 4th or 5th fund raising junket with EOS, after Steem, Bitshares, Protoshares, etc.. Come-from-beyond who admitted he was the creator of Next is repeating the ICO scam with IOTA (which can't even reach consensus if they remove the centralized servers) and I think I heard they have another fundraising scam coming.

The dot.com bubble didn't incriminate the public who speculated on the shares on the stock exchanges. Whereas, everyone who is trading ICOs now is incriminating themselves. It's quite an understatement to say that many more people are going to prison.

Many of you are going to be guilty of causing a public mania into ICOs, if the authorities don't crackdown soon enough.

You can see I'm making sure I will not be part of it. I only hold BTC, LTC, and BCH (and a tiny bit of STEEM so I can continue to blog there, but I have clearly articulated that I think Steem is a scam and I'm not promoting nor wishing to be part of any longer than I need to be until my project is launched to replace Steem for blogging and other use cases).

The dot.com analogy is interesting to me because I was offered $1 million in stock options by Homepage.com to buyout my coolpage.com in 2000 (figure roughly $3 million in 2017 dollars). I declined because I was prescient about the coming dot.com bust, so I negotiated a $205,000 non-exclusive license in cash instead. And I continued to milk the income from Coolpage for 7 more years even though I stopped working on it.

I also predicted in an emphatic Steemit blog this recent ICO crash 2 days before it occurred.

Am I going to be prescient again or on the wrong side of history?

I urge more of you to come out and emphatically denounce ICOs, so that newbies who are reading have some alternative perspectives to draw from.

I don't think ICOs are killing crypto, ICOs can be a great way of generating publicity and new money and new entrants to cryptoworld. It is just that there are some bad ones and scam ones out there. So it is really a good thing that these will in time have regulations like other businesses. I am not worried at all and think it will be a positivie once the temporary panic calms down a bit.

Publicity for creating a dot.com bubble in ICOs that leaves the general public holding useless bags and being very angry about it. The kind of publicity we need is an adoption killer app that the public loves and admires, e.g. Facebook, Google, MySpace, etc.. But the problem is that the public has no reason whatsoever to adopt decentralized ledger clones of those popular Internet sites, unless there is some killer features they need which can only be obtained on the decentralized ledger variants.

I already challenged one of your comradres upthread to name one single ICO project that has produced any real world adoption.

All I get is silence in response.

ICOs are going to destroy the reputation and potential of crypto, associating it with scams, speculation bubbles, coupled with the bad aspects of Bitcoin such ransomware, assassination bounties, etc..

What are we building that from the perspective of the mainstream is perceived to be good for society with real world adoption to counter act all the negatives? NOTHING!

So don't be surprised when later the nation-states are forced by public opinion to crackdown not just on ICOs but potentially decentralized ledgers in general.

Smart guys please wake up.

So your solution is to bring regulators into the scene to keep an eye on the market?

ICO's are minuscule in the world of international finance, stop spreading FUD. More investors = more value, not every business can utilize Bitcoins infrastructure, there's more uses to blockchain technology than a single coin.

You presume that ICOs offer anything but destruction.

Until you have another solution for avoiding mass manias such as the dot.com bubble, the South Seas bubble, the Tulip bubble, etc., then I guess we are stuck with government regulation. Government regulation of speculation manias is a fact of existing law. Do you propose we popularize crypto by violating the law and promoting a mass mania that accomplishes nothing and leaves a wake of destruction?

The real use cases won't be built as long as everyone is more interested in selling empty bags to greater fools. No one has an incentive to actually do the hard work, when so much easy money is dangling in front of them for the taking. Selling empty bags to greater and greater fools is so much more attractive than the slog of repeated failure of trying to discover a killer app.

You may think for example that Ethereum has done useful R&D. But the reality is that in 3+ years they've never solved the consensus algorithm issue. Casper innovates nothing and just an obfuscation of all the drawbacks of Byzantine agreement and proof-of-stake. Whereas, I actually innovated the consensus algorithm to something that is not proof-of-work, not proof-of-stake, and I did it with less than $50,000 of funding over 2 years (just for personal expenses during that timeframe and it would not have taken that long had I not been morbidly ill). Ethereum had $18 million right?

Look what the Altcoin Discussion forum has become:

Looking for ICO ready to moon!

Which ICO would you suggest for October?

Vitalik Buterin networth $100 Million?

You all know that Russian central bank is backing him up as loyalist of Putin ( I am not against it, just mentioning facts)

Did you have a FOMO investment ?

[coin_1122]

So your solution is to bring regulators into the scene to keep an eye on the market?

ICO's are minuscule in the world of international finance, stop spreading FUD. More investors = more value, not every business can utilize Bitcoins infrastructure, there's more uses to blockchain technology than a single coin.
 

Most of the ICO owners will respond until they get money. After getting the money they will start neglecting the investors and they will start crapping with the people. Most of the ICO owners are doing the same thing with the investors.

[Spoetnik]

So your solution is to bring regulators into the scene to keep an eye on the market?

ICO's are minuscule in the world of international finance, stop spreading FUD. More investors = more value, not every business can utilize Bitcoins infrastructure, there's more uses to blockchain technology than a single coin.
 

Junior FUD is warranted.
Notice the consensus in the scene ?
Which is ? That *YES* indeed MOST ICO's are scammy bullshit.
Hence the context and rightful use of "FUD"
When the scene is flooded with *mostly scam coins then yeah.. you SHOULD have FUD.

Comprende Junior ?

And cut the "investor" crap kid  ..you are no "investor"

[NereuFajardo]

I think ICO is diffenrence with Crypto. they just use blockchain technology to fund money for their project. not related to this crypto world.

[bitcoinvestor]

BAD icos are hurting crypto, but this too shall pass

Fake ICOs kill cryptocurrencies slowly. That's will cause many government alert about ICOs. However it is a good news for investors when there are many government regulate ICOs there will be more trusted ICOs than now. Most ICOs now are worthless like shitcoin ICO, fuck coin, wha'ts for the coin. it is nothing for the development of the cryptoworld.

[cryptonianz]

Why would someone believe this? If you think about it all ICO's have gathered almost 2 billion. That's almost 2% of the total Market Cap?

I believe ICO is what is keeping crypto alive.

People that are now entering the crypto market don't want to catch a train that they already lost, they want a new project and they wish that it will go to the MOON!

[Hyperme.sh]

Why would someone believe this? If you think about it all ICO's have gathered almost 2 billion. That's almost 2% of the total Market Cap?

Global stock markets are $18.5 trillion.

Total private equity raised in 2016 was $345 billion. Total venture capital raised in 2016 was $127 billion, with $41 billion of that in the USA.

So roughly a couple percent of global venture funding activity.

But what may be more important is the rate of growth, which without even computing it, I can reasonably guess is growing faster than a quadrupling per year (Ethereum was probably the main ICO of 2014 at $18 million). So if this continues, the percentage will be quite significant by next year.

I believe ICO is what is keeping crypto alive.

People that are now entering the crypto market don't want to catch a train that they already lost, they want a new project and they wish that it will go to the MOON!

Agreed. But that is indicative of what I wrote about upthread, which is that no one has developed any viable real world use case for decentralized ledger of significance, i.e. no mass adoption use case has been demonstrated.

Thus the ecosystem is attracting predominately only those who want “to da moon” greater fool scams. This is destroying our ecosystem, because it is attracting a demographic of investors and projects no longer based on any real utility. We’re turning our ecosystem into an empty bag hype factory. Remember what I wrote upthread about developers having no incentive to execute anything, because  it’s more lucrative to issue another ICO than to work on the promises of the prior ICO.

I’m preparing to do something about this.

The Hypermesh name will be discarded.

[senin]

ICO is one of the tools for improving the crypto currency. Specialists are involved in its conduct and they try to introduce new technologies and ideas into new coins to make these coins occupy a certain niche among the crypto-currencies and facilitate our life in some area. Therefore ICO is needed. Another thing is that not all of them for various reasons reach the end and the coins created sometimes are not viable. This market and here is not only success, but also failure.

[Hyperme.sh]

ICO is one of the tools for improving the crypto currency.

This is the 3rd time in this thread I’m challenging you who make this claim, to name one ICO that has generated any use case adoption? The only use is selling empty bags to greater fools (even for Ethereum that’s the only use case that has been achieved).

All I get is silence and no response.

ICOs produce nothing. Zilch. Stop lying to yourself and others. You’re promoting empty bags of hype to greater fools than your foolish self. Admit it. You’re here for only because of you’re greed and you try assuage your conscience with some delusion such as quoted above. Admit it that FOMO is irresistible. Just like when you were young and there was the sound of a party in the neighbourhood and you were stuck at home in bed because your parents wanted you to grow up to be an industrious person. But now you’re free to sneak out your bedroom window and run to the party.

[gwestcot]

ICO is one of the tools for improving the crypto currency.

This is the 3rd time in this thread I’m challenging you who make this claim, to name one ICO that has generated any use case adoption? The only use is selling empty bags to greater fools (even for Ethereum that’s the only use case that has been achieved).

All I get is silence and no response.

ICOs produce nothing. Zilch. Stop lying to yourself and others. You’re promoting empty bags of hype to greater fools than your foolish self. Admit it. You’re here for only because of you’re greed and you try assuage your conscience with some delusion such as quoted above. Admit it that FOMO is irresistible. Just like when you were young and there was the sound of a party in the neighbourhood and you were stuck at home in bed because your parents wanted you to grow up to be an industrious person. But now you’re free to run to the party.

Monaco and Tenx are pretty good ICO's. There are some good ones out there but yes I agree that there are a lot of bad ICO's that people buy into without doing research. That being said, I believe that is the investors fault and governments don't need to step in to regulate things to a great degree.

[Gnosis7777]

All I see in this thread are a bunch of greedy newbs or otherwise rapacious jackass's rather poorly attempting to defend their ponzi-pyramid scams.

The governments are going to crack down on these 'ICO' launches, and rightly so, for causing prolific economic loss to the masses; commercial, contract, tort, common, positive or equitable laws exist for a reason: to make remedies available for those whom suffered loss based on relying on a transactional scheme or contract; it will be the governments who subrogate into the shoes of those whom suffered economic loss, acting therefore as creditor, the metaphorical piper to be paid. The warning has come ex ante to those propagating or profiteering from these pernicious motifs, yet these profiteers believe there will not be consequences?

Simply, not everyone is fit for self-governance; and those who cannot govern themselves accordingly for a greater egalitarian cause, instead robbing Peter to pay himself, will instead be governed by powers larger than himself.

Thus, we implore you, the people, to think before acting; proceed for the greater good alone; else inevitably, misery itself shall haunt you.

[Hyperme.sh]

All I see in this thread are a bunch of greedy newbs or otherwise rapacious jackass's rather poorly attempting to defend their ponzi-pyramid scams.

The governments are going to crack down on these 'ICO' launches, and rightly so, for causing prolific economic loss to the masses; commercial, contract, tort, common, positive or equitable laws exist for a reason: to make remedies available for those whom suffered loss based on relying on a transactional scheme or contract; it will be the governments who subrogate into the shoes of those whom suffered economic loss, acting therefore as creditor, the metaphorical piper to be paid. The warning has come ex ante to those propagating or profiteering from these pernicious motifs, yet these profiteers believe there will not be consequences?

Simply, not everyone is fit for self-governance; and those who cannot govern themselves accordingly for a greater egalitarian cause, instead robbing Peter to pay himself, will instead be governed by powers larger than himself.

Thus, we implore you, the people, to think before acting; proceed for the greater good alone; else inevitably, misery itself shall haunt you.

Wow. +1. Finally I can STFU, because others are willing to speak up.

[Spoetnik]

So your solution is to bring regulators into the scene to keep an eye on the market?

ICO's are minuscule in the world of international finance, stop spreading FUD. More investors = more value, not every business can utilize Bitcoins infrastructure, there's more uses to blockchain technology than a single coin.
 

kelsey is not bringing in the regulators.. YOU are by supporting things you should not.

ICO = SCAM .