Liberty Reserve shutdown is a boost for Bitcoin?

[fr33d0miz3r]

Comply or die.

If that, I prefer "die".

But, Coinseeker, I rather prefer another phrase: "Fight or die". Or Russian version: "Die, but fight".
We all need to shut up the corrupt governments. Who said it will be simple? But we need to fight. We need to develop new, greater technologies to win. And we'll do it.

BTW, if the U.S. founding fathers thought like you ("comply or die"), America could be a slavish British colony today.
So, you are not a patriot of your country. True Americans think not like you. IMO.

[becoin]

I may not agree with all the laws, but I still must abide by them.

Then forget about Bitcoin! The US government will stop at nothing defending the dollar. "Whatever it takes" - so often we listen officials saying these words at both sides of the Atlantic. Expect everything from people so desperate to defend their power whatever the cost.

[Coinseeker]

Comply or die.

If that, I prefer "die".

But, Coinseeker, I rather prefer another phrase: "Fight or die". Or Russian version: "Die, but fight".
We all need to shut up the corrupt governments. Who said it will be simple? But we need to fight. We need to develop new, greater technologies to win. And we'll do it.

BTW, if the U.S. founding fathers thought like you ("comply or die"), America could be a slavish British colony today.
So, you are not a patriot of your country. True Americans think not like you. IMO.

You're comparing surrendering to a foreign government to the rule of law of our existing government?    Not a really good comparison.  Regulations are a good thing when done right.  I'm not here to change the world...I'm here to make money.   I told you, save your Bitcoin bible thumping...I don't care.  Just giving you fair warning of the seriousness of the situation.  

I may not agree with all the laws, but I still must abide by them.

Then forget about Bitcoin! The US government will stop at nothing defending the dollar. "Whatever it takes" - so often we listen officials saying these words at both sides of the Atlantic. Expect everything from people so desperate to defend their power whatever the cost.

No, we just like things like roads and bridges.  Schools and hospitals.  Healthcare and feeding the poor.  Oh and lights...kind of important.  Can't have those things without taxes and can't have taxes without regulations.  It does suck to pay bills, I know but hey, that's life.  

[fr33d0miz3r]

Regulations are a good thing when done right.  

The problem of any regulations is that they can't be absolutely right. And it doesn't depend on which government do you mean.
Every centralized system will be corrupt when it becomes huge and when it have a lot of power.

I'm not here to change the world...I'm here to make money.

Your children and grandchildren will "say" thanks to you 

[Coinseeker]

Regulations are a good thing when done right.  

The problem of any regulations is that they can't be absolutely right. And it doesn't depend on which government do you mean.

Such is the truth of humanity.  Nothing is perfect but that dosen't mean you toss out the baby with the bath water.  You just work to improve the system.  I think a regulated Bitcoin will do wonders to force banks into acting right because there is an alternative.  A true competitor...finally.  As long as it's unregulated the banks can keep demonizing it and they'll win.  Regulate it and you level the playing field, so us little guys/gals can get a fair shake by taking the power back and utilizing currency how we want to, not how they want us too.  You don't have to be black market to accomplish these things.

[fr33d0miz3r]

that dosen't mean you toss out the baby with the bath water.  

Current governments are not babies. They are adult mafiosos. So, if we can, we need to toss them.

[fr33d0miz3r]

Regulate it

Regulate Bitcoin, and regulator will change the protocol and start printing new BTC soon. So, what will be the difference from USD?

[Coinseeker]

that dosen't mean you toss out the baby with the bath water.  

Current governments are not babies. They are adult mafiosos. So, if we can, we need to toss them.

And replace them with who?  You?  No one?     You're gonna have to come with a better plan than "toss them".

[fr33d0miz3r]

And replace them with who?  You?  No one?    You're gonna have to come with a better plan than "toss them".

Read the libertarian principles. Good government is a minimal government with total control by society. So, our plan can be "toss and build the minimal new".

[Coinseeker]

Regulate it

Regulate Bitcoin, and regulator will change the protocol and start printing new BTC soon. So, what will be the difference from USD?

You obviously haven't looked at the FinCEN requirements, thus have zero clue what you are talking about. You're just spewing FUD based on you're own paranoid delusions.  It's really not that complicated to comply.  Expensive, yes...complicated not really if you've got the money.

[Coinseeker]

And replace them with who?  You?  No one?    You're gonna have to come with a better plan than "toss them".

Read the libertarian principles. Good government is a minimal government with total control by society.

Yes, the kings and queens of delusion.  Thanks but no thanks.  Like I said, we like roads, bridges, lights, hospitals and all that stuff people take for granted.  Going back to the stone age, is not my idea of a good time.

[fr33d0miz3r]

You obviously haven't looked at the FinCEN requirements, thus have zero clue what you are talking about. You're just spewing FUD based on you're own paranoid delusions.  It's really not that complicated to comply.  Expensive, yes...complicated not really if you've got the money.

Today... But tomorrow the situation will be different... Mark my words.

America is going to socialism/totalitarism gradually, because if it becomes socialistic in no time, people will make a revolution.

we like roads, bridges, lights, hospitals and all that stuff people take for granted.

Libertarian system is not a stone age. It's a truly free life.

Are your "roads, brdges, hospitals" actually free? really? You pay taxes. But what if you don't use "roads and bridges"? Why do you need to pay for them via taxes?

Libertarian system means that you'l pay for real using of civilization goods and services. But wait... As I know, a lot of roads and bridges in US are paid. Why? You pay taxes and pay for brigdes???  You still need to pay for medicine and insurance (it's very expensive in the US). But you still pay taxes... Why??? Okay, you need to pay for military security. But not 50% of your income!

[Coinseeker]

You obviously haven't looked at the FinCEN requirements, thus have zero clue what you are talking about. You're just spewing FUD based on you're own paranoid delusions.  It's really not that complicated to comply.  Expensive, yes...complicated not really if you've got the money.

Today... But tomorrow the situation will be different... Mark my words.

America is going to socialism/totalitarism gradually, because if it becomes socialistic in no time, people will make a revolution.

We have plenty of socialist programs and they are awesome.  Always could use improving but we love em.  

we like roads, bridges, lights, hospitals and all that stuff people take for granted.

Libertarian system is not a stone age. It's a truly free life.

Are your "roads, brdges, hospitals" actually free? really? You pay taxes. But what if you don't use "roads and bridges"? Why do you need to pay for them via taxes?

LOL...so you don't use roads.  How about electricity and the infastructure that makes it possible.  Suppose you're talking this nonsense on a solar powered computer.  

Libertarian system means that you'l pay for real using of civilization goods and services. But wait... As I know, a lot of roads and bridges in US are paid. Why? You pay taxes and pay for brigdes???  You still need to pay for medicine and insurance (it's very expensive in the US). But you still pay taxes... Why??? Okay, you need to pay for military security. But not 50% of your income!

No one pays 50% of their income and why we are still paying for healthcare is a national tragedy.  The ACA is a big step in the right direction but still, what we need is universal healthcare.  Healthcare is a basic human necessity.  You've still provided no valid reason to switch to an alternative.  Your alternative is selfish and says, "only the strong survive."  What we have now, is compassionate and says, "We're in this together."

It's a moral choice.  It's a no brainer for me.

[nwbitcoin]

I see this as bad news for bitcoin because its demonstrating exactly what power the US government has in the world.

The US Government want everyone to use the US Dollar for any kind of trade that involves international movements, its good for the dollar.

If we think this latest action is bad, think of what happened when a certain middle eastern dictator decided to start selling his oil in Euros rather than dollars?  He's dead now!

I really don't think the price is going to shoot up much until all this uncertainty is removed, and that isn't going to happen until the US Gov gets what it wants.  We are going to be here for a while!

[fr33d0miz3r]

LOL...so you don't use roads.  How about electricity and the infastructure that makes it possible.  Suppose you're talking this nonsense on a solar powered computer.  

I pay for electricity by the way. I pay for Internet. Full price. Okay, without taxes these prices may be a bit higher. Anyway, that price will be more right. Because in this case if I didn't use electricity and the Internet, I don't need to pay for it.

And by the way, free roads and bridges are still possible in a libertarian system. Compare it with free software and web services. Owner of road and/or bridge still can sell advertisement places on his road.

[Coinseeker]

I see this as bad news for bitcoin because its demonstrating exactly what power the US government has in the world.

The US Government want everyone to use the US Dollar for any kind of trade that involves international movements, its good for the dollar.

If we think this latest action is bad, think of what happened when a certain middle eastern dictator decided to start selling his oil in Euros rather than dollars?  He's dead now!

I really don't think the price is going to shoot up much until all this uncertainty is removed, and that isn't going to happen until the US Gov gets what it wants.  We are going to be here for a while!

You are probably right.  Guess it's good for those who like stability though. 

[Coinseeker]

LOL...so you don't use roads.  How about electricity and the infastructure that makes it possible.  Suppose you're talking this nonsense on a solar powered computer.  

I pay for electricity by the way. I pay for Internet. Full price. Okay, without taxes these prices may be a bit higher. Anyway, that price will be more right. Because in this case if I didn't use electricity and the Internet, I don't need to pay for it.

I don't have to pay for it either.   It's just going to be dark.    But I like lights and thus I understand that electricity is not beamed to my home without infrastructure.  Honestly, I don't really think you know what you're talking about.  I think you're just regurgitating libertarian talking points and you're not doing a very good job.  I think you follow this "movement" just to belong to something. Because you're bored and maybe lonely.  You have the luxury of taking for granted that which makes it possible for you to speak what you speak.  To "vow" to tear down the very society that gives you the comfort zone to even suggest such things.

In the end, I think most people who say these things would be terrified if it actually came to pass. A world like a giant prison yard, without guards.  Who will protect you from the strong?  Who will shelter and feed you when the strong take everything you have by force?  No police, no rules, no law...only the strong survive.  My suggestion, is to really think about the reality of such a world, should it ever come to pass.  It's all good sitting in the comforts of home.  But when it's time to stand at post, that's when we separate the men from the boys.  That's when the strong prosper and the weak perish.

Thanks for the chat bro...gotta hit the sack.  I'll check back in the morning.    

[TimJBenham]

BTW, if the U.S. founding fathers thought like you ("comply or die"), America could be a slavish British colony today.

Yeah, living under the limey yoke like Australia and Canada!

Still, I like your revolutionary Russian spirit.

You obviously haven't looked at the FinCEN requirements, thus have zero clue what you are talking about. You're just spewing FUD based on you're own paranoid delusions.  It's really not that complicated to comply.  Expensive, yes...complicated not really if you've got the money.

Why should only rich people be allowed to do business? It is naive to suppose that the current requirements are the end. They are not. Complying with them doesn't really help the state much. They will need True Names to be associated with bitcoin addresses. What are the requirements on bullion dealers? is bitcoin more or less portable and fungible than bullion?

[fr33d0miz3r]

But I like lights and thus I understand that electricity is not beamed to my home without infrastructure.  

Infrastructure pricing must be included in prices of the final product. Otherwise, the final product must be free. And electricity must be free this way.

Because you're bored and maybe lonely.

No. I have a pretty nice, smart and beautiful girlfriend. We will be married next year.

No police, no rules, no law...only the strong survive.

Libertarianism is not anarchy. Libertarian system has police and law. But no more.

[fr33d0miz3r]

Yeah, living under the limey yoke like Australia and Canada!

Without American "example", Australia and Canada could be slavish...