Liberty Reserve shutdown is a boost for Bitcoin?

[samson]

nice one! thx

(but i still think all this glamour of being in worldwide news will be tempting for bahara. but this will take a while. he killed an elephant and gets the trophy. he will want that again. but not directly after the first one. once it got boring again, once the first trophy isn´t shining that golden anymore - then he will want to hit another one. 1 or 2 years from now.)

If it's not him it will be one of his colleagues who doesn't already have a trophy.

[escrow.ms]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87.msg807#msg807

Seems like satoshi have used LR in past.

[bitcoinbear]

One aspect I hadn't thought of until just now: Many of the news reports are mentioning bitcoins in one way or another while talking about the Liberty Reserve bust. Some talk about their similarities (anonymity, worldwide transfer of funds), while others talk about their differences (bitcoin does not have a central authority to arrest and shutdown the system). But as they say, any publicity is good publicity. There are people who are either hearing about bitcoins for the first time, or heard about them a while ago and are saying "WTF, bitcoins are worth $130, ten times what they were when I read about them in 2011, I should invest now before they go up another 10x!" So we might just see a "publicity bump", with another big bubble forming very soon!

In other words, "BUY! BUY! BUY!"

[Dalib]

One aspect I hadn't thought of until just now: Many of the news reports are mentioning bitcoins in one way or another while talking about the Liberty Reserve bust. Some talk about their similarities (anonymity, worldwide transfer of funds), while others talk about their differences (bitcoin does not have a central authority to arrest and shutdown the system). But as they say, any publicity is good publicity. There are people who are either hearing about bitcoins for the first time, or heard about them a while ago and are saying "WTF, bitcoins are worth $130, ten times what they were when I read about them in 2011, I should invest now before they go up another 10x!" So we might just see a "publicity bump", with another big bubble forming very soon!

In other words, "BUY! BUY! BUY!"

+1

[naima53]

Of course not. Conversely. It closed the big gate to the real black market.

[600watt]

Press conference of Bahara and his sheriffs:
At 28:30, guy talks how they are not targeting virtual currencies as long as they comply with Fincen rules.

http://www.davidnews.com/2013/05/liberty-reserve-laundered-6-billion.html

nice one! thx

(but i still think all this glamour of being in worldwide news will be tempting for bahara. but this will take a while. he killed an elephant and gets the trophy. he will want that again. but not directly after the first one. once it got boring again, once the first trophy isn´t shining that golden anymore - then he will want to hit another one. 1 or 2 years from now.)

Meh, he headed the multi-year investigation and bust of Pokerstars / FTP / Absolute Poker. Who knows if SDNY will even be working any cases related to virtual currencies in foreseeable future?

wow, that was him ?! which supports my reasoning. so it went this way:

bahara: all that glamour after we took down fulltiltpoker... it is fading away. i need to get on stage again. i want to become ny mayor or president. let´s atomize ... bitcoin!

minor clerk (holding bitcoins): uh.. boss... that is difficult. it is atomized by design.

bahara: i don´t give a f*ck. i am hungry.

minor clerk (googles desperatly): why not take down a more promising player ?

bahara: i don´t give a f*ck as long as it is worldwide media coverage.

minor clerk: how about liberty reserve...?

[Coinseeker]

One aspect I hadn't thought of until just now: Many of the news reports are mentioning bitcoins in one way or another while talking about the Liberty Reserve bust. Some talk about their similarities (anonymity, worldwide transfer of funds), while others talk about their differences (bitcoin does not have a central authority to arrest and shutdown the system). But as they say, any publicity is good publicity. There are people who are either hearing about bitcoins for the first time, or heard about them a while ago and are saying "WTF, bitcoins are worth $130, ten times what they were when I read about them in 2011, I should invest now before they go up another 10x!" So we might just see a "publicity bump", with another big bubble forming very soon!

In other words, "BUY! BUY! BUY!"

All I can do is laugh when I read stuff like this.  As if regular people are falling all over themselves to be associated with something that continues to be grouped with crime, drugs, kiddie porn, human trafficking and worldwide seizures and arrests.  Any new bump is coming from more criminals, looking for a new safe haven. 

[Matthew N. Wright]

One aspect I hadn't thought of until just now: Many of the news reports are mentioning bitcoins in one way or another while talking about the Liberty Reserve bust. Some talk about their similarities (anonymity, worldwide transfer of funds), while others talk about their differences (bitcoin does not have a central authority to arrest and shutdown the system). But as they say, any publicity is good publicity. There are people who are either hearing about bitcoins for the first time, or heard about them a while ago and are saying "WTF, bitcoins are worth $130, ten times what they were when I read about them in 2011, I should invest now before they go up another 10x!" So we might just see a "publicity bump", with another big bubble forming very soon!

In other words, "BUY! BUY! BUY!"

All I can do is laugh when I read stuff like this.  As if regular people are falling all over themselves to be associated with something that continues to be grouped with crime, drugs, kiddie porn, human trafficking and worldwide seizures and arrests.  Any new bump is coming from more criminals, looking for a new safe haven.  

Bewm. The elephant in the room of cultists. Bitcoin has a lot longer to go than WordPress accepting it. It needs a billion dollar company to see it's potential and take a huge reputational risk on it by receiving payments through it for an extended period of time. That will create the demand that drives the production that drives the interest that drives the change.

[Frozenlock]

All I can do is laugh when I read stuff like this.  As if regular people are falling all over themselves to be associated with something that continues to be grouped with crime, drugs, kiddie porn, human trafficking and worldwide seizures and arrests.  Any new bump is coming from more criminals, looking for a new safe haven.  

They don't need that, they have the banking system.

[Coinseeker]

All I can do is laugh when I read stuff like this.  As if regular people are falling all over themselves to be associated with something that continues to be grouped with crime, drugs, kiddie porn, human trafficking and worldwide seizures and arrests.  Any new bump is coming from more criminals, looking for a new safe haven.  

They don't need that, they have the banking system.

Obviously that's a moronic statement or they wouldn't have needed Liberty Reserve.  All that forehead and so little common sense.  

[Frozenlock]

All I can do is laugh when I read stuff like this.  As if regular people are falling all over themselves to be associated with something that continues to be grouped with crime, drugs, kiddie porn, human trafficking and worldwide seizures and arrests.  Any new bump is coming from more criminals, looking for a new safe haven.  

They don't need that, they have the banking system.

Obviously that's a moronic statement or they wouldn't have needed Liberty Reserve.  All that forehead and so little common sense.  

Oh wait! Nobody was using LR for legit purposes! They were all child-porn-drug-dealer-assassins!

With the size of the black market, LR was nothing but a drop in the ocean. Banks are involved.

[Coinseeker]

All I can do is laugh when I read stuff like this.  As if regular people are falling all over themselves to be associated with something that continues to be grouped with crime, drugs, kiddie porn, human trafficking and worldwide seizures and arrests.  Any new bump is coming from more criminals, looking for a new safe haven.  

They don't need that, they have the banking system.

Obviously that's a moronic statement or they wouldn't have needed Liberty Reserve.  All that forehead and so little common sense.  

Oh wait! Nobody was using LR for legit purposes! They were all child-porn-drug-dealer-assassins!

With the size of the black market, LR was nothing but a drop in the ocean. Banks are involved.

As is Bitcoin, smaller even, so you still have failed to make a valid point.  Here I actually thought you were one of the smart ones. 

[Frozenlock]

Coinseeker: bad guys need a new refuge and they come to bitcoin.

Me: They don't need to, they already have what they need.

Coinseeker: Yes, but you are wrong. Herp derp.


Did I miss your point?

[BitcoinAshley]

Coinseeker, think before you type. Fiat currency is used for child porn, human trafficking, guns, violence, etc far more than BTC or LR are, yet people flock to it like blind idiots. You think people don't make that argument constantly despite its complete invalidity? Keep saying it over and over again "Bitcoin is for criminals," it might become true

LR being shut down is great news for bitcoin.

The protocol of bitcoin can't be easily shut down by the state but the front end can - however, black market criminals don't care about the ability to KYC and ACH funds to Gox or whatever, since they don't do that anyways. You know, just like how people don't care that you can't walk into a nice, safely furnished corner store to buy heroin, and great-Grandma didn't mind having to remember the password for the Speakeasy (and risk arrest) in the 1920s when she was a college girl. If you think a billion dollar company is going to embrace bitcoin and that is the only thing that will make it "successful", you are full of shit, and more irrational than even the most irrational bull on these forums

As with any currency or payment system, there are criminals that will use it and there are normal folks that will use it. We can argue all we want about the ratio of "normal folks vs criminals" that use it and how that fares for either adoption or price but that is a useless, irrelevant discussion. The red herring of red herrings in the Bitcoin world.
If only criminals use it but use it en masse, price will go way up and Grandma won't like it, but the government won't be able to shut down the protocol/network. If only Coinseekers use it, Grandma still won't like it but only because she just can't understand it, and the government still won't be able to shut it down, and price will still go way up. Either way everyone wins except the banksters and Coinseeker's Grandma.

[Coinseeker]

Coinseeker: bad guys need a new refuge and they come to bitcoin.

Me: They don't need to, they already have what they need.

Coinseeker: Yes, but you are wrong. Herp derp.


Did I miss your point?

Apparently because you're saying that "criminals" from Liberty Reserve don't need bitcoin because they can just use the legacy banking system.  What you seem to fail to understand - why I don't know - is Bitcoin, like Liberty Reserve provides an anonymous safe haven.  You don't get that with legacy banking, so you're point is ridiculous.  

[Coinseeker]

Coinseeker, think before you type. Fiat currency is used for child porn, human trafficking, guns, violence, etc far more than BTC or LR are, yet people flock to it like blind idiots. You think people don't make that argument constantly despite its complete invalidity? Keep saying it over and over again "Bitcoin is for criminals," it might become true

Didn't say any of that...try reading before you post.

LR being shut down is great news for bitcoin.

Of course it is.  Bitcoin caters to criminals.

The protocol of bitcoin can't be easily shut down by the state but the front end can - however, black market criminals don't care about the ability to KYC and ACH funds to Gox or whatever, since they don't do that anyways. You know, just like how people don't care that you can't walk into a nice, safely furnished corner store to buy heroin, and great-Grandma didn't mind having to remember the password for the Speakeasy (and risk arrest) in the 1920s when she was a college girl. If you think a billion dollar company is going to embrace bitcoin and that is the only thing that will make it "successful", you are full of shit, and more irrational than even the most irrational bull on these forums

tl;dr

As with any currency or payment system, there are criminals that will use it and there are normal folks that will use it. We can argue all we want about the ratio of "normal folks vs criminals" that use it and how that fares for either adoption or price but that is a useless, irrelevant discussion. The red herring of red herrings in the Bitcoin world.
If only criminals use it but use it en masse, price will go way up and Grandma won't like it, but the government won't be able to shut down the protocol/network. If only Coinseekers use it, Grandma still won't like it but only because she just can't understand it, and the government still won't be able to shut it down, and price will still go way up. Either way everyone wins except the banksters and Coinseeker's Grandma.

More of the same....tl;dr

[Frozenlock]

Coinseeker: bad guys need a new refuge and they come to bitcoin.

Me: They don't need to, they already have what they need.

Coinseeker: Yes, but you are wrong. Herp derp.


Did I miss your point?

Apparently because you're saying that "criminals" from Liberty Reserve don't need bitcoin because they can just use the legacy banking system.  What you seem to fail to understand - why I don't know - is Bitcoin, like Liberty Reserve provides an anonymous safe haven.  You don't get that with legacy banking, so you're point is ridiculous.  

No, you implied that LR was used by criminals, because "otherwise they wouldn't need LR".

Then my point was that criminals don't need LR, because they are already using the legacy system.

After which you declared victory. 

You just take for granted that (A) those using LR were criminals, and that (B) their needs would be better served with Bitcoin than with any other usual financial instrument.

Prove A, then B, and then I'll be able to take you seriously.

[Coinseeker]

No, you implied that LR was used by criminals, because "otherwise they wouldn't need LR".

No, you assumed that's what I said.  Big difference.  My statement was about their desire for anonymous transactions.  Exactly why they were involved in LR, in the first place.

Then my point was that criminals don't need LR, because they are already using the legacy system.

After which you declared victory.  

Because your point was moronic, as it was based on your flawed assumption.

You just take for granted that (A) those using LR were criminals, and that (B) their needs would be better served with Bitcoin than with any other usual financial instrument.

Prove A, then B, and then I'll be able to take you seriously.

The fact that you even offered A or B, tells me there is no way I can take you seriously.  I mean, really?    You're actually a smart guy with markets and what not.  You can't possibly be this blind.  This is the whole ideological point of bitcoin.   

[Frozenlock]

Well, my apologies if I assumed you were implying that, but I didn't have many other choices, did I?

Any new bump is coming from more criminals, looking for a new safe haven. 

I understood this as follow:

LR (criminals) ---> criminals go to bitcoins ---> price go up because of criminals


Now, if you didn't really mean the first two steps, we are left with this:

?? -----> ?? ---->  price go up because of criminals.

[telemaco]

No, you implied that LR was used by criminals, because "otherwise they wouldn't need LR".

No, you assumed that's what I said.  Big difference.  My statement was about their desire for anonymous transactions.  Exactly why they were involved in LR, in the first place.

Then my point was that criminals don't need LR, because they are already using the legacy system.

After which you declared victory.  

Because your point was moronic, as it was based on your flawed assumption.

You just take for granted that (A) those using LR were criminals, and that (B) their needs would be better served with Bitcoin than with any other usual financial instrument.

Prove A, then B, and then I'll be able to take you seriously.

The fact that you even offered A or B, tells me there is no way I can take you seriously.  I mean, really?    You're actually a smart guy with markets and what not.  You can't possibly be this blind.  This is the whole ideological point of bitcoin.  

Actually the moment bitcoin has received the biggest increase of new users has been after cyprus. For many people bitcoin is just an hedge against a financial system that is totally rotten and don't want to lose the money they earned. Most people are not drug dealers but still decide to invest in gold/silver/bitcoins to avoid a possible future collapse coming to a cinema close to you very soon. The number of newcomers after cyprus has been so big that after them came the speculators and from there to the bubble/correction. I doubt the crime money is a big percent on bitcoin. If that is not the case why didn't the criminals use bitcoin before the bubble or during 2010/11?

One question: Why are you in this forum? You don't seem to like bitcoin too much and also seems you are not here for the money either as bitcoin will be a disaster if one believes you.
Are you a terrorist?