Liberty Reserve shutdown is a boost for Bitcoin?

[trepper]

Shall I immediately notify wordpress, bitspend, bitcoinstore, and foodler that BTC is only useful for criminal activity?

Maybe you should not, considering the cumulated revenues of all those megabusiness involved in bitcoin...

[Rampion]

it simply means that the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate.

And your assumption is based on what facts? Inner voices?

Two words:  Silk Road

I like how you guys are trying to play dumb.  As you see, the USG isn't fooled either.  

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

[trepper]

it simply means that the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate.

And your assumption is based on what facts? Inner voices?

I protest vigorously, becoin's rethoric tryout was adressed to me, not to you...
He is pointless, but he's mine !!!!

[Coinseeker]

it simply means that the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate.

And your assumption is based on what facts? Inner voices?

Two words:  Silk Road

I like how you guys are trying to play dumb.  As you see, the USG isn't fooled either.  

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

Wasen't it you who was just arguing that Bitcoin will survive because of how big the black market is?    Do you want me to pull up the posts??    You might wanna go back to the "up, up, up" speculation thread, son.  

@Coinseeker:

1) you don't seem to understand that black market is not "tiny". It's a 1,800 billion/year economy. Do the maths.

Based on facts: the demand created by a single Darknet website (Silk Road) + a single gambling website (Satoshidice) is enough to take one BTC to be worth aprox. 14 of your beloved US dollars. Maybe you do not understand that 14 (fourteen) dollars for something like Bitcoin is not trivial (it was worth $0.079 in May 2010 - did you know?)

<snip>

What I'm trying to explain you is that Bitcoin has a HUGE growth potential. It's price already went from $0.07 to $14 because of real but extremely reuced demand, that's a x200 increase in 1 year because of Satoshidice and Silk Road.

<snip>

And just wait for the "black market" to see how good can be BTC for them (Dread Pirate Roberts is a visionary, but give to his "folks" some years to understand BTC), and for more gambling sites to embrace it.

<snip>

Because the core characterisitics of Bitcoin are a) decentralized and b) trust-free, and hence unseizable and uncontrollable by Governments. And that very characteristics will attract a very specific real and powerful demand, as they did with Satoshidice and Silk Road.

Your honor...I rest my case.  





[/quote]

[Rampion]

it simply means that the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate.

And your assumption is based on what facts? Inner voices?

Two words:  Silk Road

I like how you guys are trying to play dumb.  As you see, the USG isn't fooled either.  

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

Wasen't it you who was just arguing that Bitcoin will survive because of how big the black market is?    Do you want me to pull up the posts??    You might wanna go back to the "up, up, up" speculation thread, son.  

WTF are you talking about? What I tried to explain you is that BTC will survive even if it's banned - because it was designed to be resilient to prohibition/banning. Secondly, I explained you that black market's economy IS HUGE - actually is worth $1,800 billion/year, which means that BTC's would rise in value even if it was only based on black market's economy.

And now pull up the posts, FUD-spreader troll, and try to demonstrate that I said something different to what I just explained above - or STFU and GTFO.

EDIT: and BTW, now is YOUR turn to demonstrate with facts, figures and sources that "the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate" (quoting you literally). Came on, "son", show us your cards.

[creativex]

He's got off suit 7 & 2. He's a trolling drama queen.

Simply spewing the silly rhetoric mass media pukes out to scare soccer moms and control the masses doesn't make it so.

[ThatDGuy]

WTF are you talking about? What I tried to explain you is that BTC will survive even if it's banned - because it was designed to be resilient to prohibition/banning. Secondly, I explained you that black market's economy IS HUGE - actually is worth $1,800 billion/year, which means that BTC's would rise in value even if it was only based on black market's economy.

Highlighting what I was attempting to write out.  The fact that your words were taken completely out of context quickly made the entire discussion nonsensical.

[Rampion]

it simply means that the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate.

And your assumption is based on what facts? Inner voices?

Two words:  Silk Road

I like how you guys are trying to play dumb.  As you see, the USG isn't fooled either.  

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

Wasen't it you who was just arguing that Bitcoin will survive because of how big the black market is?    Do you want me to pull up the posts??    You might wanna go back to the "up, up, up" speculation thread, son.  

@Coinseeker:

1) you don't seem to understand that black market is not "tiny". It's a 1,800 billion/year economy. Do the maths.

Based on facts: the demand created by a single Darknet website (Silk Road) + a single gambling website (Satoshidice) is enough to take one BTC to be worth aprox. 14 of your beloved US dollars. Maybe you do not understand that 14 (fourteen) dollars for something like Bitcoin is not trivial (it was worth $0.079 in May 2010 - did you know?)

<snip>

What I'm trying to explain you is that Bitcoin has a HUGE growth potential. It's price already went from $0.07 to $14 because of real but extremely reuced demand, that's a x200 increase in 1 year because of Satoshidice and Silk Road.

<snip>

And just wait for the "black market" to see how good can be BTC for them (Dread Pirate Roberts is a visionary, but give to his "folks" some years to understand BTC), and for more gambling sites to embrace it.

<snip>

Because the core characterisitics of Bitcoin are a) decentralized and b) trust-free, and hence unseizable and uncontrollable by Governments. And that very characteristics will attract a very specific real and powerful demand, as they did with Satoshidice and Silk Road.

Your honor...I rest my case.  

[/quote]

And so? I explained you that even if the US bans BTC, its economy will still grow and expand. Even if you edited very well my posts to try to prove your points, you just made a fool of yourself, because my point still stands: BTC will grow in price and will survive even if its banned GLOBALLY, because black market's economy is much bigger than you seem to believe.

That said, this has nothing to do with "the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate". Now, grow some balls and show us some figures about how "the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate". I showed you some hard figures that demonstrate that Silk Road is a tiny drop in BTC's ocean.

It's your turn, troll. I'm waiting.

[Coinseeker]

 

[trepper]

EDIT: and BTW, now is YOUR turn to demonstrate with facts, figures and sources that "the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate" (quoting you literally). Came on, "son", show us your cards.

I think he obviously means that there no such thing as real bitcoin business.
And I think you will have hard time proving he's wrong.
In fact you have already demonstrated he's right  

[Rampion]

EDIT: and BTW, now is YOUR turn to demonstrate with facts, figures and sources that "the majority of business that is Bitcoin is not legitimate" (quoting you literally). Came on, "son", show us your cards.

I think he obviously means that there no such thing as real bitcoin business.
And I think you will have hard time proving he's wrong.
In fact you have already demonstrated he's right  

In case you don't know how to read (it seems that you noobs, including our good Coinclown registered less than 1 month ago, have some problems with reading comprehension):

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

And now show me your figures.

[trepper]

In case you don't know how to read (it seems that you noobs, including our good Coinclown registered less than 1 month ago, have some problems with reading comprehension):

I'm younger than you in this forum, but my dick is much bigger than yours, so...

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

And now show me your figures.

What figures?
You've just provided them  

Bitcoin actual value = Drug Deal + Speculation + 0.0000001%

[Rampion]

In case you don't know how to read (it seems that you noobs, including our good Coinclown registered less than 1 month ago, have some problems with reading comprehension):

I'm younger than you in this forum, but my dick is much bigger than yours, so...

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

And now show me your figures.

What figures?
You've just provided them  

Bitcoin actual value = Drug Deal + Speculation + 0.0000001%

You are forgetting gambling, my friend. Which may be illegal in some third world or fascist countries, but is a LEGAL business in most of the western world.

And BTW... You just discovered that 90% of BTC's economy is mostly based on speculation? Well, that's how it is currently. You don't have to be a genius to realize that. But... Is trading/speculating a "criminal" activity? At least in my country is legit.

Last but not least, we all known Coinseeker is very butthurt for not being smart enough to buy coins when the price was $1 (or $10, BTW). Are you feeling the same pain, so you feel the urge to fill these forums of FUD?

[ThatDGuy]

In case you don't know how to read (it seems that you noobs, including our good Coinclown registered less than 1 month ago, have some problems with reading comprehension):

I'm younger than you in this forum, but my dick is much bigger than yours, so...

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

And now show me your figures.

What figures?
You've just provided them  

Bitcoin actual value = Drug Deal + Speculation + 0.0000001%

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323687604578469012375269952.html?mod=WSJ_StartUpJournal_LeftTopNews (Forum warning: Possible phishing link!)

$5 Million in VC to Coinbase.

"In April, the Coinbase co-founders said the company had about 116,000 members who converted $15 million of real money into Bitcoin, up from $1 million in January. Mr. Ehrsam said its dollar conversions are increasing by about 15% a week, and its user base is growing at a weekly rate of about 12%."

This is one example, and notably the largest VC investment to date - but if you don't see this as a sign of which direction Bitcoin is moving, then you haven't been paying attention.

[creativex]

IC you didn't get the memo. The newbie crew says Coinbase, Bitpay, & Bitspend don't exist.

These are not the droids legitimate Bitcoin enterprises you're looking for...

[trepper]

Bitcoin actual value = Drug Deal + Speculation + 0.0000001%

You are forgetting gambling, my friend.

You're right
Bitcoin actual value = Gambling + Drug Deal + Speculation + 0.0000001%

And BTW... You just discovered that 90% of BTC's economy is mostly based on speculation?

No, please, you must learn to understand what you read, really
I didn't discover it since I mention it in my equation  

Last but not least, we all known Coinseeker is very butthurt for not being smart enough to buy coins when the price was $1 (or $10, BTW). Are you feeling the same pain, so you feel the urge to fill these forums of FUD?

Another very good argument, indeed.
Could you show me a figure or is it just another wishful thought?

[trepper]

IC you didn't get the memo. The newbie crew says Coinbase, Bitpay, & Bitspend don't exist.

Woooooow !
That's quite impressive!

Not as impressive as my dick, but quite impressive.

Coinbase + Bitpay + Bitspend !!!! And tomorow, the world....

[niothor]

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

You're messing up trade volume on an exchanger with sales between two people.
Forex is doing $3.98 trillion /day  more than the revenue of the 10 biggest companies in the world /year.

Besides , I can say for sure that there were at least4 orders over 50k usd  SR:) , this month.

[NewLiberty]

If you think $200/BTC is expensive... Then you do not know enough about both past Bitcoin history and its potential.

I don't think (and never said) it's expensive or cheap.
I've just asked if those who bought 200$/btc can really feel they've got "sound money for their retirement and health insurance".

If those people who bought at $200/btc had any sense, then they would also have bought at least as many bitcoins soon thereafter at $50/btc, thus their average cost of bitcoins would be no more than $125/btc, so they could sell right now for a profit. Even if they did not grab the dip, the price of bitcoins was under $100/btc for a while, so they could definitely have lowered their average cost by now.

Time cost averaging is a very good strategy for investing in volatile commodities with high beta, such as Bitcoin is currently.
It works even better than your example, (if we assume as you do that the time interval intersects with both 200 and 50).  The investment strategy works by using an equal amount of the buying currency (USD$ here) at discrete time intervals.
So for each share bought at 200, 4 would be bought at 50, making the average cost 400/5 or 80 each, rather than 125.

This is a built in strategy for all wage earners who are paid an equal amount per any given period of time.  If I am paid a salary in bitcoin/dollars, I will get more bitcoin on the weeks that the bitcoin price is low, and less when it is high.  


For the folks playing the "I want to win this argument game" in this forum.  We win when we all gain a better understanding, please waste less of our time.

[Rampion]

Silk Road? They move aprox. $1.2M per month.

Trading volume at Gox in the last 30 days is $238,479,686.66

So, come on, who are the other "criminals" using Bitcoin and moving twenty times more than Silk Road monthly? Please let me know, and please include figures, facts and sources to your groundless speculations.

And BTW, you may be tempted to say that the rest of volume in BTC's economy is just speculators trading? Well, AFAIK trading is a "legit" business - isn't it?

You're messing up trade volume on an exchanger with sales between two people.
Forex is doing $3.98 trillion /day  more than the revenue of the 10 biggest companies in the world /year.

Besides , I can say for sure that there were at least4 orders over 50k usd  SR:) , this month.

I'm not messing that up. Sales between two people is one thing - trades between two peoples (or bots) is a different thing.

But still, Gox is a legitimate business - and their turnover is probably bigger that the one of Silk Road. BTC's economy is not based at all in Silk Road, trading/speculation (which is not "black market", but a legit business) is much bigger and moves more money that "black market" operations in BTC.