Bitcoin Forum
May 22, 2024, 09:36:30 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Does such a coin exist ? (anti- pump and dump)  (Read 867 times)
coingrow
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 102



View Profile
September 23, 2017, 07:03:31 PM
 #21

Nothing is resistant to pumps and dumps. Neither in crypto and also not in forex. Even bitcoin is pump and dump. You should study about market cycles in depth. How and why news is orchestrated to pump prices and also news is again created to dump stocks. A latest example is how China FUD led to dumps in bitcoin price. Everything is in thin air.

hosseinimr93
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2408
Merit: 5243



View Profile
September 23, 2017, 07:10:46 PM
 #22

Since the prices are determined by sellers and buyers in an open market, it is impossible. Of course the amount of fluctuations varies in different coins.

.
.BLACKJACK ♠ FUN.
█████████
██████████████
████████████
█████████████████
████████████████▄▄
░█████████████▀░▀▀
██████████████████
░██████████████
████████████████
░██████████████
████████████
███████████████░██
██████████
CRYPTO CASINO &
SPORTS BETTING
▄▄███████▄▄
▄███████████████▄
███████████████████
█████████████████████
███████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
███████████████████████
█████████████████████
███████████████████
▀███████████████▀
█████████
.
cryptohunter
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167

MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG


View Profile
September 23, 2017, 07:13:11 PM
 #23

bitbay

 rolling peg system that is almost done is exactly aimed at this.

although most traders here love the pump and dumps i mean this is where most make/lose most of their btc.

I am guessing though real businesses would like a more stable currency.




HellCoinLTE (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 23, 2017, 09:30:33 PM
Last edit: September 23, 2017, 09:47:08 PM by HellCoinLTE
 #24

Nothing is resistant to pumps and dumps. Neither in crypto and also not in forex. Even bitcoin is pump and dump. You should study about market cycles in depth. How and why news is orchestrated to pump prices and also news is again created to dump stocks. A latest example is how China FUD led to dumps in bitcoin price. Everything is in thin air.

You are right in a sense that a Pump is an investment and a Dump is a withdrawal. A currency that does not allow either is not really a currency.
I would gladly learn more about the market cycles, should you have any material to provide.

What if the cycles cannot be avoided but simply broken into random pieces so that there is no way to know when the pump will occur ?  I think that would prevent the pump and dump behavior.
What if we could provide people with data about what to expect from the coin's future, and when to expect it?  I think the currency would become hype and media-resistant.

I am making a web-page, and will soon start writing a white-paper for anyone to edit, contribute, steal from, join with, etc.
Link will be posted soon!  I am thinking about naming the coin "INKEY$", still any suggestion is welcome.
NiallW
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 5
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 23, 2017, 10:14:45 PM
 #25

@NiallW

Why not simply generate accounts so that whenever a transaction is made TO account, the overall supply increases by that many coins, and when coins are pulled FROM the account, the overall supply decreases by such an amount + the decay rate per account ?

I know that it is easier to say than to be done, but just hypothetically speaking.

The overall supply can be calculated by going trough a block-chain. The thing I am not certain about is how to make the supply be infinite and not finite like BTC (and at which point would the supply grow without a decay or burning?) - I have no idea.

not really sure I fully understand the example you've given there.

If you use economic theory, price is worked out using supply and demand so in theory, you can fix the market value of something by constantly adjusting the supply to always meet demand. You might be able to use formulae used for estimating velocity of money to create an algorithm for estimating exactly what the change in supply needs to be. Manipulating supply won't be perfect as you'd have to wait maybe a few weeks between the supply being adjusted and market forces reacting to it but it could give long term price stability.

You could also have the currency look up the sales value on exchanges and adjust the supply to push it's value towards the optimum but this relies on exchanges which means it can be indirectly manipulated by someone messing up the price on the exchange.

I think you'd have to have potentially infinite inflation when prices are too high and some mechanism that encourages saving when prices are too low, or a system that creates new coins when prices are too high and incentivizes users to destroy coins when prices are low, maybe something like have two currencies (coins and shares) where users can trade coins for shares but can't turn shares back into coins (so coins get taken out of circulation whenever shares are purchased = deflation) and then have a proof-of-stake system where users with the most shares can "win" and get paid in coins.
HellCoinLTE (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2017, 12:34:06 AM
 #26

@NiallW

Why not simply generate accounts so that whenever a transaction is made TO account, the overall supply increases by that many coins, and when coins are pulled FROM the account, the overall supply decreases by such an amount + the decay rate per account ?

I know that it is easier to say than to be done, but just hypothetically speaking.

The overall supply can be calculated by going trough a block-chain. The thing I am not certain about is how to make the supply be infinite and not finite like BTC (and at which point would the supply grow without a decay or burning?) - I have no idea.

not really sure I fully understand the example you've given there.

If you use economic theory, price is worked out using supply and demand so in theory, you can fix the market value of something by constantly adjusting the supply to always meet demand. You might be able to use formulae used for estimating velocity of money to create an algorithm for estimating exactly what the change in supply needs to be. Manipulating supply won't be perfect as you'd have to wait maybe a few weeks between the supply being adjusted and market forces reacting to it but it could give long term price stability.

You could also have the currency look up the sales value on exchanges and adjust the supply to push it's value towards the optimum but this relies on exchanges which means it can be indirectly manipulated by someone messing up the price on the exchange.

I think you'd have to have potentially infinite inflation when prices are too high and some mechanism that encourages saving when prices are too low, or a system that creates new coins when prices are too high and incentivizes users to destroy coins when prices are low, maybe something like have two currencies (coins and shares) where users can trade coins for shares but can't turn shares back into coins (so coins get taken out of circulation whenever shares are purchased = deflation) and then have a proof-of-stake system where users with the most shares can "win" and get paid in coins.


Thank you, I admit that I have no background in economics, that my claims might not be entirely correct, but I do understand that the human factor cannot be fully avoided and price adjustments may be slow. I also know that some things currently do not quite work the way I mention them, but it doesn't mean that it is impossible to accomplish.

I have given it some thought this morning, and the only way I can think of making the pumps and dumps not work with a coin is to do the following:
-There is no decay (that is, the supply does not become lower over the time), forget that I even mentioned it.
-When person buys 10 coins (lets say), they also increase the supply by 10.
-When person sells 10 coins (on some exchange to BTC lest say), they decrease the supply by 10.
-For each transfer of n coins from account A to account B, account A gets k coins removed and B gets k coins added, given that k is the amount added to a total supply (when A bought their coins). When A has zero coins, the k value is therefore a zero too.
-Miners can burn only a certain amount of accounts' coins (per day, overall) that they encounter, and accounts are chosen randomly. Burning the accounts' coins means that should a miner encounter some account B, the previously mentioned k amount becomes a zero, and supply gets the amount k subtracted (completely from an account). Therefore, when A transfers 10 coins to B, they transfer the k value as a zero. This also means that k is either a zero or the amount that is transfered or the minimum amount that A has.

-Since the mentioned burning is limited per time period, there will be a queue of accounts whose additional supply coins can be burned. Since there is a queue, we can easily analyze the block-chain to know the final supply after the whole queue is processed as well as the investments (we can also keep a history of this) and represent it as a valid market prediction. This way, media and politics cannot influence people's decisions, when they would know exactly what to expect.

I don't see a reason to introduce two or more currencies that work as one, we can just adjust the accounts and how they behave.

This way, the pumps as well as other investments can occur, however, since nobody will know when the pumps will occur, it will not be worth the risk, and therefore people will avoid such a behavior.


Anyway, I think that this could work algorithm-wise, but like you said, there is really no way to have a 100% accuracy in the real-world.  Still, I think it is worth a try.





trademark
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1932
Merit: 1003


View Profile
September 24, 2017, 12:44:59 AM
 #27

Yes, a coin that does not pump or dump does exist.  You will first need create your own coin and keep it all to yourself.  The future of the coin is in your own hands.  No one else can manipulate it.   Smiley
HellCoinLTE (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2017, 01:39:17 AM
 #28

Yes, a coin that does not pump or dump does exist.  You will first need create your own coin and keep it all to yourself.  The future of the coin is in your own hands.  No one else can manipulate it.   Smiley

I hardly call disjointed cause and effect a manipulation. But sure, you don't have to take me seriously, I was asking for an opinion only, and if that is how far it goes, than I am thankful for it.
leea-1334
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 2254
Merit: 953


Temporary forum vacation


View Profile
September 24, 2017, 02:08:04 PM
 #29

Hi, this is my first post in a forum. The reason why I have registered is to ask a question...  I hear a lot about the pumps and dumps and how much it hurts the coins.

This is just an idea, and I haven't thought of a full algorithm, but I could do it too, and make some simulations.
Would it be possible to create a coin that, after every transaction from account to account, it increases the amount of coins available on the market?  So for example, if I put 10mil dollars into a coin, I get an increase of the same amount. That way, the coin price would stay the same.  To ensure that the growth is steady, the new coins should have a decay rate so that price of a coin has a steady increase? This way, it would be possible to increase the value of a coin once the dump occurs, so it would force people to HODL onto their coins.


Just wondering, and would like to hear your opinions.



I have personally only seen one alt with this sort of concept. It is only trading at Novaexchange and Yobit. But it is only successful because I think only 2 devs and a handful of miners are the ones just really propping up the price. It is not realistic in the real world. And it will surely collapse as soon as the holders want to cash out.

.
..........
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████░░██████████████████████████░░███████████████████
███████████████░░██████████████████████████░░█████████████████
█████████████████░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███████████████
█████████████████░░░░░░░░░░██░░██░░░░░░░░░░██░░███████████████
███████████████████░░░░░░██░░██████░░░░░░██░░█████████████████
█████████████████████░░░░░░██████████░░░░░░███████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████

▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
.....I AM BLACKJACK.FUN.....
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████░░██████████████████████████░░███████████████████
███████████████░░██████████████████████████░░█████████████████
█████████████████░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███████████████
█████████████████░░░░░░░░░░██░░██░░░░░░░░░░██░░███████████████
███████████████████░░░░░░██░░██████░░░░░░██░░█████████████████
█████████████████████░░░░░░██████████░░░░░░███████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████

▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
..........
HellCoinLTE (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 24, 2017, 02:36:19 PM
 #30

I have personally only seen one alt with this sort of concept. It is only trading at Novaexchange and Yobit. But it is only successful because I think only 2 devs and a handful of miners are the ones just really propping up the price. It is not realistic in the real world. And it will surely collapse as soon as the holders want to cash out.

Thank you, this kind of input is the most valuable. If you manage to recall the name of the coin, I would like to look into it more.
mozillaspez
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 504
Merit: 102



View Profile
September 25, 2017, 07:20:28 AM
 #31

No it doesn't exist
You should need to explain the things then say that it doesn't exist because many people are here that they are making comments without information i would like to know about the things. Because information posts can help everyone.
Cnut237
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904
Merit: 1277



View Profile
September 25, 2017, 07:42:01 AM
 #32

I think I read something about Estonia thinking about creating a national cryptocurrency. I suppose if this sort of thing does develop, it will help against p+d.
Another thing is that coins at the moment are all young and price is based on speculation. Once coins start to get embedded in real life and have not just potential use cases but genuine real world uses happening everyday, this will give people another reason to hold the coin, which should mean more stability.






bamb
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 251



View Profile
September 25, 2017, 07:47:01 AM
 #33

There can never be anti- pump and dump coin. Human behaviour is complex. Some people don't even know what they are going to do in the next minute. When it cone to trading all sort of emotions and logic come to play. The winner are those  who recognises this power play within themselves and use information about themselves to their advantage

                                  ██▄▄              ▄▄██
                                   █████▄        ▄█████
      ▄▄▄▄▄        ▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄     █████▄      ▄█████      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
  ▄███████████▄    █████████████▄    █████▄    ▄█████   ▄▄███████████▄    █████     █████
 █████▀▀▀▀██████   ██████▀▀▀██████    █████▄  ▄█████   ▄█████▀▀▀▀▀█████▄   █████   █████
█████  ▄▄█████▀▀   █████     █████     █████▄▄█████    █████       █████    █████ █████
██████████▀▀       █████     █████      ██████████     █████       █████     █████████
 ██████▀ ▄▄▄█▄     █████     █████       ████████      ▀█████▄▄▄▄▄█████▀      ███████
  ▀████████████    █████     █████        █████        ▀▀███████████▀         █████
     ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀      ▀▀▀▀▀     ▀▀▀▀▀         ▀▀▀▀             ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀           █████
                                                                             █████
                                                                            █████
                                                                           █████
.
                    ▄▄▄████▄
▀████▄▄▄          ▄██████████
 ▀███████▄       ▄██████████
  ▀████████      ██████████
   █████████    ██████████▀
    █████████  ▄█████████▀
     █████████ ██████████
      ██████████████████
      ▀████████████████
       ▀█████████████▀
        ▀████████████▀
         ▀██████████▀
           ▀███████▀
.
stripykitteh
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!


View Profile
September 25, 2017, 04:44:06 PM
 #34

Hi, this is my first post in a forum. The reason why I have registered is to ask a question...  I hear a lot about the pumps and dumps and how much it hurts the coins.

This is just an idea, and I haven't thought of a full algorithm, but I could do it too, and make some simulations.
Would it be possible to create a coin that, after every transaction from account to account, it increases the amount of coins available on the market?  So for example, if I put 10mil dollars into a coin, I get an increase of the same amount. That way, the coin price would stay the same.  To ensure that the growth is steady, the new coins should have a decay rate so that price of a coin has a steady increase? This way, it would be possible to increase the value of a coin once the dump occurs, so it would force people to HODL onto their coins.


Just wondering, and would like to hear your opinions.



It is possible but it has to be centralized.

The only way to keep the value stable is to be pegged to US dollar or Euro, like Tether, this way value will not diverge much from the pegged currency.
A centralized system is what I picture as well. Having a price of the coin set as a static amount would draw people away from the coin.

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
                     .██████████████████████████████████.
                  -█████████████████████████████████████████
               -███████████████████████████████████████████████
           .-█████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .      .████████████████████████████████████████████████.

       .       .██████████████████████████████████████████████
       .    ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
           .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████
              .████████████████████████████████████████████████
                   ████████████████████████████████████████
                      ██████████████████████████████████
                          ██████████████████████████
                             ████████████████████
                               ████████████████
                                   █████████
.CryptoTalk.org.|.MAKE POSTS AND EARN BTC!.🏆
HellCoinLTE (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 12
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 25, 2017, 05:57:29 PM
 #35

 
[/quote]A centralized system is what I picture as well. Having a price of the coin set as a static amount would draw people away from the coin.
[/quote]

Why not have an algorithm that calculates the price (miners), and then simply embed the price into a block-chain data, so that people can see what the last calculation was just by looking at the block-chain. Then, they can easily calculate how much the exchanges are ripping them off.
the.scientist
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 50
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 30, 2017, 12:30:52 AM
 #36

If you refer to a currency with a fixed value, such a thing does not exist. Any currency has the value that people pay for it.
Any currency or asset will be subject to P&D, the difference is that those with bad distribution and no intrinsic value will have more dumps than pumps in the long run.
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!