BFL still hasn't shipped a single single?

[wrenchmonkey]

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

So you don't want BFL to be taken to court because the penalties for their illegal activities will be the final nail in the coffin?

Exactly.  Why would I want $800 instead of a money machine printing $800/day, even if it is 9 months later than expected?

So you are fine with pyramid schemes built on pre-orders as long as you are near enough to the top of the pyramid that you stand a chance of profiting from those beneath you.
Very telling.

Nope.  I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process.

Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?
You already said you don't care about BFL's illegal activities and just want people to refrain from suing them because you want your money printing machine.

There need not be any wrongdoing taking place, in order for the court system to bankrupt and destroy a company. Tax dollars=unlimited. Private lawyers and court fees=finite.

[k9quaint]

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

So you don't want BFL to be taken to court because the penalties for their illegal activities will be the final nail in the coffin?

Exactly.  Why would I want $800 instead of a money machine printing $800/day, even if it is 9 months later than expected?

So you are fine with pyramid schemes built on pre-orders as long as you are near enough to the top of the pyramid that you stand a chance of profiting from those beneath you.
Very telling.

Nope.  I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process.

Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?
You already said you don't care about BFL's illegal activities and just want people to refrain from suing them because you want your money printing machine.

There need not be any wrongdoing taking place, in order for the court system to bankrupt and destroy a company. Tax dollars=unlimited. Private lawyers and court fees=finite.

Yeah, but that isn't what the discussion is about.  (BIG SURPRISE)
I asked if he was worried that BFL's illegal activities would be the end of them if they get taken to court. St. Spike said "Exactly". That is why I asked for clarification.

[SgtSpike]

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

So you don't want BFL to be taken to court because the penalties for their illegal activities will be the final nail in the coffin?

Exactly.  Why would I want $800 instead of a money machine printing $800/day, even if it is 9 months later than expected?

So you are fine with pyramid schemes built on pre-orders as long as you are near enough to the top of the pyramid that you stand a chance of profiting from those beneath you.
Very telling.

Nope.  I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process.

Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?
You already said you don't care about BFL's illegal activities and just want people to refrain from suing them because you want your money printing machine.

It depends on what sort of illegal activities they are doing, and whether I agree that they deserve for their company to go bankrupt over them.  But I don't think BFL has done anything purposefully or maliciously wrong here, so I do not agree that any lawsuit should be brought against them.  You could pick up any random Joe off the street and probably find 10 laws he's broken in that very day, but does that mean he deserves to go to jail?

And yes, I would prefer that no lawsuits be brought against BFL.  But at the same time, so does everyone who still has an order with BFL.  They would all rather have their money printing machines instead of a lawsuit that is unlikely to even fully refund their order amounts.  That's why I do not believe anyone will bring a legitimate lawsuit against BFL - because BFL will still deliver, those who have units on order know that they will, and those who do not believe they will do not have orders with BFL.

It's fun how you try to twist around my words to make me look bad though. 

[wrenchmonkey]

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

So you don't want BFL to be taken to court because the penalties for their illegal activities will be the final nail in the coffin?

Exactly.  Why would I want $800 instead of a money machine printing $800/day, even if it is 9 months later than expected?

So you are fine with pyramid schemes built on pre-orders as long as you are near enough to the top of the pyramid that you stand a chance of profiting from those beneath you.
Very telling.

Nope.  I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process.

Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?
You already said you don't care about BFL's illegal activities and just want people to refrain from suing them because you want your money printing machine.

There need not be any wrongdoing taking place, in order for the court system to bankrupt and destroy a company. Tax dollars=unlimited. Private lawyers and court fees=finite.

Yeah, but that isn't what the discussion is about.  (BIG SURPRISE)
I asked if he was worried that BFL's illegal activities would be the end of them if they get taken to court. St. Spike said "Exactly". That is why I asked for clarification.

That's EXACTLY what the fuck it's about, but you're astonishingly ignorant, so let me bring you up to speed here.

He said, "I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process."

Then you said, "Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?"

The answer is plain. Because the courts can be used to destroy even legitimate companies. So it's still a concern, when greedy trolls who have a vested financial interest in bringing down BFL before they can ship a product, are talking about using the courts to do so.

But again, you're astonishingly ignorant, so I'm wasting my energy typing this...

[k9quaint]

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

So you don't want BFL to be taken to court because the penalties for their illegal activities will be the final nail in the coffin?

Exactly.  Why would I want $800 instead of a money machine printing $800/day, even if it is 9 months later than expected?

So you are fine with pyramid schemes built on pre-orders as long as you are near enough to the top of the pyramid that you stand a chance of profiting from those beneath you.
Very telling.

Nope.  I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process.

Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?
You already said you don't care about BFL's illegal activities and just want people to refrain from suing them because you want your money printing machine.

You could pick up any random Joe off the street and probably find 10 laws he's broken in that very day, but does that mean he deserves to go to jail?

Those broken laws would be civil violations, not criminal ones. They fine you for those, not throw you in jail.  

And yes, I would prefer that no lawsuits be brought against BFL.  But at the same time, so does everyone who still has an order with BFL.  They would all rather have their money printing machines instead of a lawsuit that is unlikely to even fully refund their order amounts.  That's why I do not believe anyone will bring a legitimate lawsuit against BFL - because BFL will still deliver, those who have units on order know that they will, and those who do not believe they will do not have orders with BFL.

You should be rooting for others to bring lawsuits so judges could dismiss them as baseless (just like Josh claims). Except you fear that lawsuits might have merit. You are ok with some laws being broken as long as you get your money printing machine.

It's fun how you try to twist around my words to make me look bad though.  

I gave you every chance to clarify. You should not respond with "Exactly" if the statement is not actually exactly what you meant to say.

Nonsense and abuse.

BFL PR machine hard at work generating pre-orders.

[wrenchmonkey]

Intentional ignorance of fact, while spouting own special brand of full-retard.

The trouble with facts is, they completely destroy your argument. I can see why you spend so much time avoiding them. Twat. Welcome to my ignore list.

[k9quaint]

Linking facts and explaining them to people.

The trouble with facts is, they completely destroy my argument. I can see why you spend so much time linking them. My ego can't take this. Welcome to my ignore list.

You keep promising, but you never deliver on that threat. Sounds a lot like a company I know of...

[SgtSpike]

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

So you don't want BFL to be taken to court because the penalties for their illegal activities will be the final nail in the coffin?

Exactly.  Why would I want $800 instead of a money machine printing $800/day, even if it is 9 months later than expected?

So you are fine with pyramid schemes built on pre-orders as long as you are near enough to the top of the pyramid that you stand a chance of profiting from those beneath you.
Very telling.

Nope.  I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process.

Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?
You already said you don't care about BFL's illegal activities and just want people to refrain from suing them because you want your money printing machine.

You could pick up any random Joe off the street and probably find 10 laws he's broken in that very day, but does that mean he deserves to go to jail?

Those broken laws would be civil violations, not criminal ones. They fine you for those, not throw you in jail.  

And yes, I would prefer that no lawsuits be brought against BFL.  But at the same time, so does everyone who still has an order with BFL.  They would all rather have their money printing machines instead of a lawsuit that is unlikely to even fully refund their order amounts.  That's why I do not believe anyone will bring a legitimate lawsuit against BFL - because BFL will still deliver, those who have units on order know that they will, and those who do not believe they will do not have orders with BFL.

You should be rooting for others to bring lawsuits so judges could dismiss them as baseless (just like Josh claims). Except you fear that lawsuits might have merit. You are ok with some laws being broken as long as you get your money printing machine.

It's fun how you try to twist around my words to make me look bad though.  

I gave you every chance to clarify. You should not respond with "Exactly" if the statement is not actually exactly what you meant to say.

Nonsense and abuse.

BFL PR machine hard at work generating pre-orders.

No, I would not root for anyone to bring a lawsuit up, because lawsuits cost companies money even when they are baseless.  And there's no telling when someone might find a judge who actually wants to bring a case through the system full circle, potentially bankrupting the company even if they did nothing wrong.

You're right - I improperly worded my reply when I said "Exactly", as I do not agree with the sentiment that BFL has done anything wrong.  I simply meant that I would prefer receiving miners to starting lawsuits, and I think any reasonable person would prefer the same.

[Xian01]

I would not root for anyone to bring a lawsuit up, because lawsuits cost companies money even when they are baseless.  And there's no telling when someone might find a judge who actually wants to bring a case through the system full circle, potentially bankrupting the company even if they did nothing wrong.

 *mumble mumble something something whistles innocently*

[k9quaint]

You're right - I improperly worded my reply when I said "Exactly", as I do not agree with the sentiment that BFL has done anything wrong.  I simply meant that I would prefer receiving miners to starting lawsuits, and I think any reasonable person would prefer the same.

I was sort of astounded by your response. Good thing I gave you another chance to clarify before I brought out the torches and pitchforks.   

[ordy]

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

So you don't want BFL to be taken to court because the penalties for their illegal activities will be the final nail in the coffin?

Exactly.  Why would I want $800 instead of a money machine printing $800/day, even if it is 9 months later than expected?

So you are fine with pyramid schemes built on pre-orders as long as you are near enough to the top of the pyramid that you stand a chance of profiting from those beneath you.
Very telling.

Nope.  I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process.

Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?
You already said you don't care about BFL's illegal activities and just want people to refrain from suing them because you want your money printing machine.

It depends on what sort of illegal activities they are doing, and whether I agree that they deserve for their company to go bankrupt over them.  But I don't think BFL has done anything purposefully or maliciously wrong here, so I do not agree that any lawsuit should be brought against them.  You could pick up any random Joe off the street and probably find 10 laws he's broken in that very day, but does that mean he deserves to go to jail?

And yes, I would prefer that no lawsuits be brought against BFL.  But at the same time, so does everyone who still has an order with BFL.  They would all rather have their money printing machines instead of a lawsuit that is unlikely to even fully refund their order amounts.  That's why I do not believe anyone will bring a legitimate lawsuit against BFL - because BFL will still deliver, those who have units on order know that they will, and those who do not believe they will do not have orders with BFL.

It's fun how you try to twist around my words to make me look bad though. 

Please stop trying to talk for all BFL pre-order "customers" - you do not know of what you speak.

[SgtSpike]

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

So you don't want BFL to be taken to court because the penalties for their illegal activities will be the final nail in the coffin?

Exactly.  Why would I want $800 instead of a money machine printing $800/day, even if it is 9 months later than expected?

So you are fine with pyramid schemes built on pre-orders as long as you are near enough to the top of the pyramid that you stand a chance of profiting from those beneath you.
Very telling.

Nope.  I do not believe BFL to be a pyramid scheme.  They are a legitimate company with many setbacks in their production process.

Then why would you worry about people suing and taking BFL down via the courts?
You already said you don't care about BFL's illegal activities and just want people to refrain from suing them because you want your money printing machine.

It depends on what sort of illegal activities they are doing, and whether I agree that they deserve for their company to go bankrupt over them.  But I don't think BFL has done anything purposefully or maliciously wrong here, so I do not agree that any lawsuit should be brought against them.  You could pick up any random Joe off the street and probably find 10 laws he's broken in that very day, but does that mean he deserves to go to jail?

And yes, I would prefer that no lawsuits be brought against BFL.  But at the same time, so does everyone who still has an order with BFL.  They would all rather have their money printing machines instead of a lawsuit that is unlikely to even fully refund their order amounts.  That's why I do not believe anyone will bring a legitimate lawsuit against BFL - because BFL will still deliver, those who have units on order know that they will, and those who do not believe they will do not have orders with BFL.

It's fun how you try to twist around my words to make me look bad though. 

Please stop trying to talk for all BFL pre-order "customers" - you do not know of what you speak.

My apologies, I will refrain from referring to all of them as an absolute in the future.

[KGambler]

Sgt Spike believes BFL is legit, but he's always been very reasonable and is definitely not a shill.  As for monkeywrench, he's a transparent shill and clearly has some kind of relationship with BFL.  I put him on ignore a week ago.

Sgt Spike, BFL may go out of business even if a lawsuit never materializes.  If they don't start shipping in bulk relatively soon, they will go under.  When that happens, no refunds for anyone, and no money printing machine either...  Every day that goes by there are more ASICs in the wild, more being produced and more being developed.  The clock is ticking for BFL, scam or no scam.

[Littleshop]

Josh's bullshit Post of the Day on May 24th was "As for the Singles, hopefully next week... we should have some boards coming in on Tuesday I think."

Another week gone by and still no singles shipped.

IIRC they started "shipping" jalapenos at the start of May.  May is now gone by and they've shipped how many jale's?   100 tops?

There is obviously zero bitcoin enthusiasts with a background in Law because BFL should have been taken to court months ago.

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners. If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

Given that a 60GH/s single is still slated to make $10k/month, I'm sure most first-day orderers would much rather take the non-litigation route and have a money machine pumping out as much in one day as they'd be likely to see in reward from any lawsuit.

I strongly believe this is the goal of most of the BFL trolls on this forum. They want to stir the shit until Big Brother gets involved and shuts it down... Most of the trolls have a vested financial interest in delaying more hashing power from coming online, as long as they possibly can...  

+1  Also some may be hoping people in front of them cancel so they get items faster.  A dangerous move but possible motivation.

Sgt Spike believes BFL is legit, but he's always been very reasonable and is definitely not a shill.  As for monkeywrench, he's a transparent shill and clearly has some kind of relationship with BFL.  I put him on ignore a week ago.

Sgt Spike, BFL may go out of business even if a lawsuit never materializes.  If they don't start shipping in bulk relatively soon, they will go under.  When that happens, no refunds for anyone, and no money printing machine either...  Every day that goes by there are more ASICs in the wild, more being produced and more being developed.  The clock is ticking for BFL, scam or no scam.

BFL is now shipping Jally's and we are seeing many in the wild.  The shipping rate does seem to be increasing.

[KGambler]

BFL is now shipping Jally's and we are seeing many in the wild.  The shipping rate does seem to be increasing.

Could you tell us more about this?  How many are we talking?  How many do you suppose have already been shipped and how many of those have been shipped this week?

[SgtSpike]

Sgt Spike believes BFL is legit, but he's always been very reasonable and is definitely not a shill.  As for monkeywrench, he's a transparent shill and clearly has some kind of relationship with BFL.  I put him on ignore a week ago.

Sgt Spike, BFL may go out of business even if a lawsuit never materializes.  If they don't start shipping in bulk relatively soon, they will go under.  When that happens, no refunds for anyone, and no money printing machine either...  Every day that goes by there are more ASICs in the wild, more being produced and more being developed.  The clock is ticking for BFL, scam or no scam.

I agree with you, I just think they are finally about ready to ship, given that they've been able to show a working 50GH/s unit.  It's just a matter of waiting on the parts to arrive now.

[MSantori]

We are discussing something similar here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=217036.0

I try to give some fact patterns in plain English in my posts throughout.

[wrenchmonkey]

Sgt Spike believes BFL is legit, but he's always been very reasonable and is definitely not a shill.  As for monkeywrench, he's a transparent shill and clearly has some kind of relationship with BFL.  I put him on ignore a week ago.

*Yawn* more bullshit from an imbecile, based entirely in fantasy. 

[ElectricMucus]

I'd be very pissed if I would have ordered a single right now considering that all those jalas gonna take away my profits.

In the end the cumulative earning of a the average jala could exceed the average single...

[dust]

Josh's bullshit Post of the Day on May 24th was "As for the Singles, hopefully next week... we should have some boards coming in on Tuesday I think."

Another week gone by and still no singles shipped.

IIRC they started "shipping" jalapenos at the start of May.  May is now gone by and they've shipped how many jale's?   100 tops?

There is obviously zero bitcoin enthusiasts with a background in Law because BFL should have been taken to court months ago.

If BFL is taken to court, then no one gets their miners.  If they are not, then people get their miners, they just get them late.

Given that a 60GH/s single is still slated to make $10k/month, I'm sure most first-day orderers would much rather take the non-litigation route and have a money machine pumping out as much in one day as they'd be likely to see in reward from any lawsuit.

I'm glad to see someone shares my views.  All of the talk of lawsuits, complaints to the FTC, etc is counterproductive for BFL customers.  I still value a June minirig preorder at $100k+, so what is the point of taking legal action and probably just getting a refund of $30k. I can't see any case where customers receive "damages" based on lost mining revenue starting from some arbitrary date in the past.

It is too early for lawsuits against BFL, I'm still giving them a chance to deliver.

I'd be very pissed if I would have ordered a single right now considering that all those jalas gonna take away my profits.

In the end the cumulative earning of a the average jala could exceed the average single...

Yep, so much for the 1/3 1/3 1/3 plan.  It isn't worth getting too mad about though, early jalapenos are a drop in the bucket compared to the network hashrate.  If they ship a bunch of singles before the minirigs though, it will be more of an issue.