[Klondike] Case design thread for K16

[KS]

Might be good to consolidate all our various extra Klondike threads to one.

1. Casings
2. Controllers
3. PSUs and cabling
4. Firmware  / Mining Software
5. Miscellaneous
6. DIY Build information
7. Pricing and sourcing of PCB, BOM, etc.
8. Heat sinks and cooling

Yikes, can you imagine the noise in that thread with all the different topics. Methinks this might/should turn into its own subforum.

[1714736014]

1714736014

[1714736014]

1714736014

[1714736014]

1714736014

[1714736014]

1714736014

[1714736014]

1714736014

[Bicknellski]

Might be good to consolidate all our various extra Klondike threads to one.

1. Casings
2. Controllers
3. PSUs and cabling
4. Firmware  / Mining Software
5. Miscellaneous
6. DIY Build information
7. Pricing and sourcing of PCB, BOM, etc.
8. Heat sinks and cooling

Yikes, can you imagine the noise in that thread with all the different topics. Methinks this might/should turn into its own subforum.

No not really... better to have slow and fast together... one repository. Harder to follow all these different threads especially with some of these get buried and lost especially with all the hate mail BFL threads messing up this subforum.

I'd prefer we house all the best information for the Klondike build in one thread.

[kevinm]

Here's an idea I had. It's not really feasible since the heat sinks aren't readily available and would be crazy stupid to custom make. It was fun to put it together in Sketchup though.


When you put four together, they create a tunnel:

I like this,
1 mod I would suggest is make the surface area of each pin equal.
That would mean that the shorter pins were progressively fatter.
That may give a more even heat draw from the board, also more even heat dissipation.

cheers,
Kev

[turtle83]

Might be good to consolidate all our various extra Klondike threads to one.

1. Casings
2. Controllers
3. PSUs and cabling
4. Firmware  / Mining Software
5. Miscellaneous
6. DIY Build information
7. Pricing and sourcing of PCB, BOM, etc.
8. Heat sinks and cooling

Yikes, can you imagine the noise in that thread with all the different topics. Methinks this might/should turn into its own subforum.

No not really... better to have slow and fast together... one repository. Harder to follow all these different threads especially with some of these get buried and lost especially with all the hate mail BFL threads messing up this subforum.

I'd prefer we house all the best information for the Klondike build in one thread.

+1 this is better than having that in the main thread...  but "4. Firmware  / Mining Software" would probably belong to main thread... dunno...

another idea could be spin off per topic threads, and getting bkk to list them in the OP of the main thread.  OR make a new master thread started by someone quite invested in Klondike (im looking at you Bicknellski   ) . Where the first post can be summary of options, etc as the discussions continue. That way a new comer can simply read one place with links to individual threads if needed.

Having everything in one place has some drawbacks also. I may not be interested in all topics listed. For example im following the case topic simply out of curiosity and will not be interested if it gets information overload. I will most likely not use a case.  Im not worried much about topics sinking deep since i "watch" posts...

[KS]

Might be good to consolidate all our various extra Klondike threads to one.

1. Casings
2. Controllers
3. PSUs and cabling
4. Firmware  / Mining Software
5. Miscellaneous
6. DIY Build information
7. Pricing and sourcing of PCB, BOM, etc.
8. Heat sinks and cooling

Yikes, can you imagine the noise in that thread with all the different topics. Methinks this might/should turn into its own subforum.

No not really... better to have slow and fast together... one repository. Harder to follow all these different threads especially with some of these get buried and lost especially with all the hate mail BFL threads messing up this subforum.

I'd prefer we house all the best information for the Klondike build in one thread.

+1 this is better than having that in the main thread...  but "4. Firmware  / Mining Software" would probably belong to main thread... dunno...

another idea could be spin off per topic threads, and getting bkk to list them in the OP of the main thread.  OR make a new master thread started by someone quite invested in Klondike (im looking at you Bicknellski   ) . Where the first post can be summary of options, etc as the discussions continue. That way a new comer can simply read one place with links to individual threads if needed.

Having everything in one place has some drawbacks also. I may not be interested in all topics listed. For example im following the case topic simply out of curiosity and will not be interested if it gets information overload. I will most likely not use a case.  Im not worried much about topics sinking deep since i "watch" posts...

And if you're following more than one topic, the read becomes difficult. You need to jump posts to read on one topic then backtrack wherever the other one starts, again jump other posts, then jump back again for 3rd topic, etc. There are already 8 topics in the short list. This will get confusing really fast.

How about making 8 "official" threads instead? (I would still prefer a subforum, this is tuning into its own little community)

[Bicknellski]

Made a Reference thread for DIY Klondike peoples.

I can compile all the important info and people can discuss how they want below. I will update often.

[KS]

Made a Reference thread for DIY Klondike peoples.

I can compile all the important info and people can discuss how they want below. I will update often.

See now, that's cheating. You're making a subforum in a thread. Sheeshh. Next you'll claim it was your idea from the start

[Bicknellski]

Made a Reference thread for DIY Klondike peoples.

I can compile all the important info and people can discuss how they want below. I will update often.

See now, that's cheating. You're making a subforum in a thread. Sheeshh. Next you'll claim it was your idea from the start

You made me look.... damn YOU!

Back to the case design thread....

Anyone got any other off the shelf cases?

[crazyates]

Here's an idea I had. It's not really feasible since the heat sinks aren't readily available and would be crazy stupid to custom make. It was fun to put it together in Sketchup though.


When you put four together, they create a tunnel:

I got over my Apple obsession years ago, but I still like to keep up on their new stuff. You seen the new MacPro? The round one? It's new "Unified Thermal Core" uses a triangular heatsink that splits the heat between the CPUs and GPUs, and blows air up thru the center. Very similar to the idea you have here.



I would consider this worth looking into more.

[dogie]

I really don't think this is the "venturi" layout you're looking for. There is no significant reduction in cross section, just a hell of a lot of turbulent flow. I really think that even with a middle row of fans you'd struggle to remove that crazy amount of heat from there.

It is smooth not very turbulent through the fins it is basically less turbulent than the Avalon design given the proximate distance to the fins and as the fans are face mounted this will provide a much more stable and direct airflow across the fins even without baffles. Unless you have a simulator shows airflow I suspect you are speculating just as much as I am?

Testing this will not be an issue since the modular design of the boards means break down and re-configuring is simple. So I will be testing it with and without baffles to see what happens and get temp readings. Having a larger opening (volume) at the front and smaller space (volume) at the back along with having 2 banks of fans I don't think there will be any issues given this is based right off other server designs with a lot more obstruction of the airflow. I don't see this being an issue at all but again I will test it out and provide feed back. If it works I'll throw up the SketchUp plans so people can modify them for KICAD or what not be keen to see others work on this as well.

Not been stalking for a while. I'm not going to simulate this in CFD, because there are way too many variables to make the simulations tell us ANYTHING useful.

'Turbulence' essentially = Reynolds number, and is a function of length travelling over a surface. For heatsinks this large/long/arranged in a pattern, you're well into turbulent flow at any sensible air flow. You're going to need a hell of a lot of pressure to maintain the airflow you need to maintain the heat transfer you need, especially as the effective ambient will probably be 50C for the 2nd+ bank. Heat transfer is a function of temp difference, so each time you try and remove heat with the same air, it gets harder and harder.

The difference to commercial servers is:
1) Typically use centrifugal blowers, much higher air pressure [required to overcome frictional losses]
2) Are VERY VERY VERY VERY noisy, because the airflows required are insane.

Just look at a 1U heatsink fan on a typical Xeon. Even if the CPU is only 90W, you'll have a 45dba centrifugal heatsink for that ONE cpu, using a solid copper heatsink.

[turtle83]

Just look at a 1U heatsink fan on a typical Xeon. Even if the CPU is only 90W, you'll have a 45dba centrifugal heatsink for that ONE cpu, using a solid copper heatsink.

1U sounds noiser than vaccum cleaner when booting up or full load... Got one to office once to debug. Everyone looked up shocked when i turned the sucker on...

[Bicknellski]

Just look at a 1U heatsink fan on a typical Xeon. Even if the CPU is only 90W, you'll have a 45dba centrifugal heatsink for that ONE cpu, using a solid copper heatsink.

1U sounds noiser than vaccum cleaner when booting up or full load... Got one to office once to debug. Everyone looked up shocked when i turned the sucker on...

What is the difference between the heat sinks proposed and those?

Not going to care much about the noise... it will be 3rd floor till I can find a permanent home. Given the talks I have had with a local GPU farmer we are probably going to go into together and rent out space and create a farm center. Again I will test it out and see what we get and I am toying with the idea of having a local aluminum shop fabricate a my chassis as it would be cheaper. Again given the constraints and the heat once you get enough of these in one room you have to go to liquid cooling of some sort. At that point I think mineral oil is the best method and commercial cooling / chiller tower set up on the roof.

I will keep you posted on the build. I am also going to build the K64 Cube or maybe even a K96 Hexagon.

Really love that triangle based prism concept as well.

[dogie]

Just look at a 1U heatsink fan on a typical Xeon. Even if the CPU is only 90W, you'll have a 45dba centrifugal heatsink for that ONE cpu, using a solid copper heatsink.

1U sounds noiser than vaccum cleaner when booting up or full load... Got one to office once to debug. Everyone looked up shocked when i turned the sucker on...

Yep. And thats for what, 100-200W? Imagine the density of some of the designs we've seen here.

[Bicknellski]

Just look at a 1U heatsink fan on a typical Xeon. Even if the CPU is only 90W, you'll have a 45dba centrifugal heatsink for that ONE cpu, using a solid copper heatsink.

1U sounds noiser than vaccum cleaner when booting up or full load... Got one to office once to debug. Everyone looked up shocked when i turned the sucker on...

Yep. And thats for what, 100-200W? Imagine the density of some of the designs we've seen here.

Not all 1U servers are 100W... or 200W... come on. Average what 200 to 400W.

And I guess I shouldn't have bogarted the thread with a 1U server... we are supposed to be talking K16 Casing.

[turtle83]

Just look at a 1U heatsink fan on a typical Xeon. Even if the CPU is only 90W, you'll have a 45dba centrifugal heatsink for that ONE cpu, using a solid copper heatsink.

1U sounds noiser than vaccum cleaner when booting up or full load... Got one to office once to debug. Everyone looked up shocked when i turned the sucker on...

Yep. And thats for what, 100-200W? Imagine the density of some of the designs we've seen here.

Not all 1U servers are 100W... or 200W... come on. Average what 200 to 400W.

And I guess I shouldn't have bogarted the thread with a 1U server... we are supposed to be talking K16 Casing.

i believe when booting up all fans, etc are set to max rpm... before the controllers/sensors come online... but still noisy in moderate usage.

You have 2 kinds of people. Ones ( like Bicknellski) who plan on putting it in dedicated room where people wont be working, and dont mind the noise.... and people (like me) who would probably have one running in my bedroom or office and a vaccum cleaner would drive me nuts, but at the same time dont mind leaving it left caseless and MacGyvering external airflow...

Without any knowledge of thermodynamics... id guestimate atleast 2 120mm fans worth of airflow to remove heat from 4 K16 (128W)... with ambient < 25C

[Bicknellski]

You can't run this 1U in your room... lol! Mine is going on the 3rd floor of my shop house school well away from the working floor of the school.

No no no.

I think you would have to stack like cairnsmore / x6500. Even then the heat might be a bit much. My ambient is 28 / 32 night / day.

[dogie]

Just look at a 1U heatsink fan on a typical Xeon. Even if the CPU is only 90W, you'll have a 45dba centrifugal heatsink for that ONE cpu, using a solid copper heatsink.

1U sounds noiser than vaccum cleaner when booting up or full load... Got one to office once to debug. Everyone looked up shocked when i turned the sucker on...

Yep. And thats for what, 100-200W? Imagine the density of some of the designs we've seen here.

Not all 1U servers are 100W... or 200W... come on. Average what 200 to 400W.

And I guess I shouldn't have bogarted the thread with a 1U server... we are supposed to be talking K16 Casing.

We're guessing at what he just dragged into his office. I doubt he has a super dense 400W 1U server in a work space lol. Have fun trying to use a phone.

My comments were actually made in regard to

[turtle83]

Just look at a 1U heatsink fan on a typical Xeon. Even if the CPU is only 90W, you'll have a 45dba centrifugal heatsink for that ONE cpu, using a solid copper heatsink.

1U sounds noiser than vaccum cleaner when booting up or full load... Got one to office once to debug. Everyone looked up shocked when i turned the sucker on...

Yep. And thats for what, 100-200W? Imagine the density of some of the designs we've seen here.

Not all 1U servers are 100W... or 200W... come on. Average what 200 to 400W.

And I guess I shouldn't have bogarted the thread with a 1U server... we are supposed to be talking K16 Casing.

We're guessing at what he just dragged into his office. I doubt he has a super dense 400W 1U server in a work space lol. Have fun trying to use a phone.

My comments were actually made in regard to http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/PFC4L1FE/MOCK_zps134cc5d8.png

Nah it wasnt super dense... I still have that box collecting dust for sentimental reasons (decomissioned years ago and i cant use it for fun cause noisy). I will look up PSU capacity and let u know. I believe its one of the early xeons with hyperthreading, and the board fits 2 cpus, but has only 1 installed.

[turtle83]

My comments were actually made in regard to http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/PFC4L1FE/MOCK_zps134cc5d8.png

I can bet anyone 1 satoshi that no datacenter is gonna accept a unit so dense. Personally i think its a little dangerous.

[Bicknellski]

My comments were actually made in regard to http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/PFC4L1FE/MOCK_zps134cc5d8.png

I can bet anyone 1 satoshi that no datacenter is gonna accept a unit so dense. Personally i think its a little dangerous.

There are ones more dense than this in centers already. GPU servers and what wattage does a 4U server throw... density? I am thinking with the 55nm Avalon 2nd Generation this will be possible. That is what I am counting on but I want to do a 1U now to see how it all fits together. 3 Months till the next chip! We need to get back on thread though... K16 casings.