[Klondike] Case design thread for K16

[BenTuras]

I am surprised to see so many push pull fan setups in a closed case. If the pull fan sucks out more air than the push fan pushes in, the air pressure will be low in the case and there will be less air molecules to pickup and transport the heat.

I expect a push only fan setup to be much better, there will be lots of air molecules to pick up the heat and the air has no way to go except out.

Maybe even forcing a high pressure in the case by limiting the outgoing openings of the case. For example a 12cm fan blowing towards a 8x8 cm opening with smooth transition. I would like to use 12cm, so the board is 1cm away from the housing, creating some airflow over the remaining electronics on top of the board too.

push-pull is good if you can't get enough airflow to keep the air cool enough across the case so that the components farthest from the push fans can still be cooled adequately.

Interesting read here: http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Radiator-Fan-Orientation-And-Shroud-Testing-Review.html
My gut feeling was wrong. Push + pull is better than just push. And adding two shrouds to it makes it even better.

[1714957217]

1714957217

[1714957217]

1714957217

[1714957217]

1714957217

[1714957217]

1714957217

[turtle83]

I am surprised to see so many push pull fan setups in a closed case. If the pull fan sucks out more air than the push fan pushes in, the air pressure will be low in the case and there will be less air molecules to pickup and transport the heat.

I expect a push only fan setup to be much better, there will be lots of air molecules to pick up the heat and the air has no way to go except out.

Maybe even forcing a high pressure in the case by limiting the outgoing openings of the case. For example a 12cm fan blowing towards a 8x8 cm opening with smooth transition. I would like to use 12cm, so the board is 1cm away from the housing, creating some airflow over the remaining electronics on top of the board too.

push-pull is good if you can't get enough airflow to keep the air cool enough across the case so that the components farthest from the push fans can still be cooled adequately.

Interesting read here: http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Radiator-Fan-Orientation-And-Shroud-Testing-Review.html
My gut feeling was wrong. Push + pull is better than just push. And adding two shrouds to it makes it even better.

Shrouds may not be needed. The center lane of the heatsink would not need much heat dissipation. Because of the design of K16, the heat is near corners of the boards, hence the outer portions of the heatsink will get hotter. So if the fan motor blocks some airflow in the center lane... then its a feature not a bug.

[Rhium]

Need some help, When i downloaded the files from https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike i converted the KiCad file to vrml and later to sldprt(Solidworks part) and that looks like this http://imgur.com/Fg3O9kn which look good but there is two problems, the file is close to 100MB which is very large for a CAD file and it is laggy to work with it, and i can´t edit it or measure it.
From the pictures I´ve seen in this thread it has been very few of the components on the PCB, where did you get these "more simple" files, could someone send it to me(i would prefer a sldprt file) or give me the measure of the PCB on some of the components.

PCB card, 100mmx100mm height=?
Diameter of holes and how far the holes is from the edge of PCB?
The length,height,width and position of the rest of components(chips etc)

Another question, How do i connect/power the Klondike to a computer, could it be USB, and which software does it use(is it just plug it in and mine or do I need to configure something?)

[marto74]

man in SW all you need for real part design is to make a plate part:
2 mm thick, 100x100. Mounting holes 90x90 , heat sink holes 62x55 all 4 mm DIA
That's all.
If you want to make rendered image this is different story

[turtle83]

man in SW all you need for real part design is to make a plate part:
2 mm thick, 100x100. Mounting holes 90x90 , heat sink holes 62x55 all 4 mm DIA
That's all.
If you want to make rendered image this is different story

also, from main thread, keep in mind pcb is designed to be mounted on heatsink, and not the other way round. i.e. pcb cannot take the weight of the heatsink.

Also use M3 screws and not M4 for mounting to account for expansion under heat, etc.

[jimrome]

Need some help, When i downloaded the files from https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike i converted the KiCad file to vrml and later to sldprt(Solidworks part) and that looks like this http://imgur.com/Fg3O9kn which look good but there is two problems, the file is close to 100MB which is very large for a CAD file and it is laggy to work with it, and i can´t edit it or measure it.
From the pictures I´ve seen in this thread it has been very few of the components on the PCB, where did you get these "more simple" files, could someone send it to me(i would prefer a sldprt file) or give me the measure of the PCB on some of the components.

PCB card, 100mmx100mm height=?
Diameter of holes and how far the holes is from the edge of PCB?
The length,height,width and position of the rest of components(chips etc)

Another question, How do i connect/power the Klondike to a computer, could it be USB, and which software does it use(is it just plug it in and mine or do I need to configure something?)

VMRL import in SolidWorks is okay for basic components, but doesn't manage complex assemblies well. You may have better luck with the scanto3D plugin (which is what I used). You'll need a ton of RAM to import the full K16 model, I think I topped off at ~6GB.

Here's a link to the sldprt file of the bare board with no components:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ks2hh709gpppx5d/K16-PCB-bare.SLDPRT

I believe the part is actually 1.6mm, rather than 2mm as marto stated - at least as per the VRML file that Bkk provided. It makes little difference either way.

[marto74]

yes  it is , but all I needed there was a representation to be able to check the design of heat sink and enclosure

[Rhium]

Need some help, When i downloaded the files from https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike i converted the KiCad file to vrml and later to sldprt(Solidworks part) and that looks like this http://imgur.com/Fg3O9kn which look good but there is two problems, the file is close to 100MB which is very large for a CAD file and it is laggy to work with it, and i can´t edit it or measure it.
From the pictures I´ve seen in this thread it has been very few of the components on the PCB, where did you get these "more simple" files, could someone send it to me(i would prefer a sldprt file) or give me the measure of the PCB on some of the components.

PCB card, 100mmx100mm height=?
Diameter of holes and how far the holes is from the edge of PCB?
The length,height,width and position of the rest of components(chips etc)

Another question, How do i connect/power the Klondike to a computer, could it be USB, and which software does it use(is it just plug it in and mine or do I need to configure something?)

VMRL import in SolidWorks is okay for basic components, but doesn't manage complex assemblies well. You may have better luck with the scanto3D plugin (which is what I used). You'll need a ton of RAM to import the full K16 model, I think I topped off at ~6GB.

Here's a link to the sldprt file of the bare board with no components:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ks2hh709gpppx5d/K16-PCB-bare.SLDPRT

I believe the part is actually 1.6mm, rather than 2mm as marto stated - at least as per the VRML file that Bkk provided. It makes little difference either way.

Thanks , but unfortunately I have Solidworks 2012 SP03, and I can´t open the file, it says it is a "future version", I don´t know how to deal with this.
If you either don´t know can you tell me all the measures or upload a picture of all the measures and the PCB. I got the board 100x100x1.6 but I don´t have a measures of the holes and chips etc(it is enough with the holes but it could be good the have the other components too)

[jimrome]

Thanks , but unfortunately I have Solidworks 2012 SP03, and I can´t open the file, it says it is a "future version", I don´t know how to deal with this.
If you either don´t know can you tell me all the measures or upload a picture of all the measures and the PCB. I got the board 100x100x1.6 but I don´t have a measures of the holes and chips etc(it is enough with the holes but it could be good the have the other components too)

Try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/11eznnw47fyk5wt/K16-PCB-bare.STEP

Open it as a STEP file, and it should import fine.

[AniceInovation]

Sorry for the offtopic, but you case designers, would you be willing to design a computer case, according to some specifics/requirements provided by private customers, and how much would you require payment?

EXCELENT stuff i'm seeing!

EDIT: designer not needed anymore as for now.

//offtopic

[Rhium]

Thanks , but unfortunately I have Solidworks 2012 SP03, and I can´t open the file, it says it is a "future version", I don´t know how to deal with this.
If you either don´t know can you tell me all the measures or upload a picture of all the measures and the PCB. I got the board 100x100x1.6 but I don´t have a measures of the holes and chips etc(it is enough with the holes but it could be good the have the other components too)

Try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/11eznnw47fyk5wt/K16-PCB-bare.STEP

Open it as a STEP file, and it should import fine.

Thanks you very very much, everything works fine, now i can start with the case 

[turtle83]

http://imgur.com/QyMdL2S (eyesore warning)

Thats the limits of my artistic abilities... i am design challenged. If this idea has merit perhaps one of you could illustrate it better using some fancy 3D tool. Goal is easy maintenance and spacious layout.

What im thinking... have blades of 4 K16 in a row. The entire blade is the heatsink with holes in appropriate places. This shouldnt be difficult since aluminium is extruded, and easy to get in whatever length needed. (Its sold in very very long bars and cut to spec). Mount the K16s onto the heatsink, So now you effectively have ~45cm long k64 with some mounting mechanism(not clearly illustrated) in the ends.

Place 2 metal bars ~40 cm apart and mount blades vertically to it. provide fans between blades.

The first picture is the full installation of blades on the rods. The next is the front side of the blade with the pcb facing you. The last is the back side (with heat sink finns).

The smooth surface of the blade could either have M3 screw holes so the pcb can be mounted using normal M3 screw, OR it could have a thru hole where the PCB is mounted using nut + bolt.

Just find a cabinet (or frame or box) or something half meter deep, and you can stuff loads of these into it. To go more fancy, make a backplane on on one end with connectors, and handles on the other end.

A 3U rack case (or even normal size pc case) could easily fit 6 of these . = 6 X 4 X K16 = 384 chips. and remain be very spacious.

[bitcoiner49er]

man in SW all you need for real part design is to make a plate part:
2 mm thick, 100x100. Mounting holes 90x90 , heat sink holes 62x55 all 4 mm DIA
That's all.
If you want to make rendered image this is different story

also, from main thread, keep in mind pcb is designed to be mounted on heatsink, and not the other way round. i.e. pcb cannot take the weight of the heatsink.

Also use M3 screws and not M4 for mounting to account for expansion under heat, etc.

So what's the purpose of the mounting holes, then?

[turtle83]

man in SW all you need for real part design is to make a plate part:
2 mm thick, 100x100. Mounting holes 90x90 , heat sink holes 62x55 all 4 mm DIA
That's all.
If you want to make rendered image this is different story

also, from main thread, keep in mind pcb is designed to be mounted on heatsink, and not the other way round. i.e. pcb cannot take the weight of the heatsink.

Also use M3 screws and not M4 for mounting to account for expansion under heat, etc.

So what's the purpose of the mounting holes, then?

maybe if u use a light heatsink... 32W of heat does not need very thick heatsinks as most people are planing...

[Ente]

Need some help, When i downloaded the files from https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike i converted the KiCad file to vrml and later to sldprt(Solidworks part) and that looks like this http://imgur.com/Fg3O9kn which look good but there is two problems, the file is close to 100MB which is very large for a CAD file and it is laggy to work with it, and i can´t edit it or measure it.
From the pictures I´ve seen in this thread it has been very few of the components on the PCB, where did you get these "more simple" files, could someone send it to me(i would prefer a sldprt file) or give me the measure of the PCB on some of the components.

PCB card, 100mmx100mm height=?
Diameter of holes and how far the holes is from the edge of PCB?
The length,height,width and position of the rest of components(chips etc)

Another question, How do i connect/power the Klondike to a computer, could it be USB, and which software does it use(is it just plug it in and mine or do I need to configure something?)

VMRL import in SolidWorks is okay for basic components, but doesn't manage complex assemblies well. You may have better luck with the scanto3D plugin (which is what I used). You'll need a ton of RAM to import the full K16 model, I think I topped off at ~6GB.

Here's a link to the sldprt file of the bare board with no components:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ks2hh709gpppx5d/K16-PCB-bare.SLDPRT

I believe the part is actually 1.6mm, rather than 2mm as marto stated - at least as per the VRML file that Bkk provided. It makes little difference either way.

Do I understand this right that the PCB is 1.6mm thick?

Ente

[Ente]

I am surprised to see so many push pull fan setups in a closed case. If the pull fan sucks out more air than the push fan pushes in, the air pressure will be low in the case and there will be less air molecules to pickup and transport the heat.

I expect a push only fan setup to be much better, there will be lots of air molecules to pick up the heat and the air has no way to go except out.

Maybe even forcing a high pressure in the case by limiting the outgoing openings of the case. For example a 12cm fan blowing towards a 8x8 cm opening with smooth transition. I would like to use 12cm, so the board is 1cm away from the housing, creating some airflow over the remaining electronics on top of the board too.

In theory, you are right - a gas will have less molecules per volume at less pressure, and we need as many molecules to transport that heat away as possible.

However, the kinds of fans we are talking about have very, very low "pressure" or "pull". We are not talking "vacuum cleaner" here, we are talking "to fan with a sheet of paper". Which means that
1) the "pressure-reduction" *any* fan-setup can archieve is very small. I would guess less than 1% reduction in pressure, molecules, heatcapacity.
2) The volume throughput will go down very quick, as soon as there is the slightest resistance for the fan. Meaning if the fan-datasheet states 100 cubic-something per minute, it will be reduced to 90 by just blowing into an empty case with a large hole at the opposite side. I would guess in real setups you have anything between 80% and 25% of the stated "free-running" air-throughput.
Now you can have more throughput with two fans. And push-pull helps more with the resistance-issue than it eats through the molecule-density-issue. By some magnitudes.

Also, there are axial and radial fans, the latter with way higher pressure.

Ente

[jimrome]

Need some help, When i downloaded the files from https://github.com/bkkcoins/klondike i converted the KiCad file to vrml and later to sldprt(Solidworks part) and that looks like this http://imgur.com/Fg3O9kn which look good but there is two problems, the file is close to 100MB which is very large for a CAD file and it is laggy to work with it, and i can´t edit it or measure it.
From the pictures I´ve seen in this thread it has been very few of the components on the PCB, where did you get these "more simple" files, could someone send it to me(i would prefer a sldprt file) or give me the measure of the PCB on some of the components.

PCB card, 100mmx100mm height=?
Diameter of holes and how far the holes is from the edge of PCB?
The length,height,width and position of the rest of components(chips etc)

Another question, How do i connect/power the Klondike to a computer, could it be USB, and which software does it use(is it just plug it in and mine or do I need to configure something?)

VMRL import in SolidWorks is okay for basic components, but doesn't manage complex assemblies well. You may have better luck with the scanto3D plugin (which is what I used). You'll need a ton of RAM to import the full K16 model, I think I topped off at ~6GB.

Here's a link to the sldprt file of the bare board with no components:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ks2hh709gpppx5d/K16-PCB-bare.SLDPRT

I believe the part is actually 1.6mm, rather than 2mm as marto stated - at least as per the VRML file that Bkk provided. It makes little difference either way.

Do I understand this right that the PCB is 1.6mm thick?

Ente

That is my understanding.

[SebastianJu]

Bicknellski... i like your rack-plan. I would love to see an offer in the forum where one offers such a 2U (or whatever it becomes) and includes the cables needed, a matching psu that can handle overclocking too and a raspberry or something to run the software needed. Most probably a software will be needed to administrate everything from the net too.

Maybe even create a similar thing for burnins bitburner.

The datacenters seems not too expensive for such things.

I hope something is developing here. I would buy.

[SebastianJu]

Does one have to build such cases or is it prebuilt to buy somewhere? I probably dont get where to find such things or how they are named.

[turtle83]

https://i.imgur.com/gJKGvd0.jpg

Does one have to build such cases or is it prebuilt to buy somewhere? I probably dont get where to find such things or how they are named.

I assume the designer's goal was to build it themselves.

If i needed to stuff them in cases, what id do is goto a shop selling second hand equipment (plenty of large shops selling used computers (p2/p3/p4), audio/video equipment, etc almost at scrap value) , and find some case that roughly matches the width and is off appropriate depth.

5 years ago i bought some pentium 4 computers for office at ~$60 each ... i am still harvesting them for fans/wires/etc...