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Author Topic: WOW! Becoin failed to read and comprehend BFL's policy on BTC refunds  (Read 35367 times)
becoin
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January 17, 2013, 01:22:06 PM
 #1

Obviously, they don't have enough bitcoins and are processing only partial refunds. They have speculated and sold large part of the bitcoins they got from their customers as "pre-orders". They were wrong expecting a lower bitcoin rate, however. This is why bicoin/$ exchange rate will now continue to rise as they need to buy bitcoins to make even partial refunds!

PS
The original title of this thread was: "WOW! BFL refuse full bitcoin refunds."
However, using his moderator privileges gmaxwell decided to change it to match his own preferences.
Go on, gmaxwell. Mock at other forum thread you don't like!

To help you avoid partial bitcoin refunds by some ASIC startups, here is a short manual I've compiled for you:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136615.0
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cedivad
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January 17, 2013, 01:23:05 PM
 #2

You can get a $ refund, correct?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 17, 2013, 01:24:39 PM
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muyuu
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January 17, 2013, 01:26:15 PM
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Can't have it both ways.

If they refunded fully in either dollars or BTC they could be milked as an speculation device with guaranteed profit.

Their costs are in dollars so you cannot expect anything else as a refund really.

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becoin
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January 17, 2013, 01:29:36 PM
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You can get a $ refund, correct?
I guess I can get both US dollars and Zimbabwean dollars if I want to?
But people didn't pay in $. They paid in bitcoins and want bitcoin refunds.
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January 17, 2013, 01:30:49 PM
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Yeah, this OP clearly has his head up his ass.  To expect full bitcoin refunds is absolutely inane -- they made it clear that would not be the case.  They made it clear they transferred their BTCs into dollars the same day -- so they weren't using your coins for speculation.

That's why it was better the WHOLE TIME to just buy bitcoins and let them go up in value.  I can say that in hindsight, anyway, but it's what I did (except for a single jally order which I had refunded when I saw the way things were going).  I think speculating thus far is more profitable than mining.

If you didn't read everything before you made your purchase then you have a lot to learn.

becoin
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January 17, 2013, 01:33:07 PM
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Their costs are in dollars so you cannot expect anything else as a refund really.
I thought they don't use customers money to pay their salaries and expences. Didn't they say they've attracted venture capital?!
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January 17, 2013, 01:47:55 PM
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BFL used bitpay, they received dollars when you paid so that's what you get back. All the stuff on their site is priced in dollars, they just happen to also accept coins as payment. It sucks that you lost out on the price increases but out of all the real issues with BFL, this is not one and has been discussed at length already.
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January 17, 2013, 01:48:50 PM
 #9

Obviously, they don't have enough bitcoins and are processing only partial refunds. They have speculated and sold large part of the bitcoins they got from their customers as "pre-orders". They were wrong expecting a lower bitcoin rate, however. This is why bicoin/$ exchange rate will now continue to rise as they need to buy bitcoins to make even partial refunds!

would you fuck off already, ya dickhead

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becoin
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January 17, 2013, 01:59:24 PM
 #10

BFL used bitpay, they received dollars when you paid so that's what you get back.
They received bitcoins, not dollars. I can not send dollars to the bitcoin address they've specified on their invoce.

It is entirely up to BFL what service they'll use to receive bitcoin payments. I have no control what they do once they get my bitcoins. If they decide to use Vatican to receive my bitcoins, will I get back a Bible for refund?
cedivad
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January 17, 2013, 02:04:07 PM
 #11

BFL used bitpay, they received dollars when you paid so that's what you get back.
They received bitcoins, not dollars. I can not send dollars to the bitcoin address they've specified on their invoce.

It is entirely up to BFL what service they'll use to receive bitcoin payments. I have no control what they do once they get my bitcoins. If they decide to use Vatican to receive my bitcoins, will I get back a Bible for refund?


My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 17, 2013, 02:05:06 PM
 #12

BFL used bitpay, they received dollars when you paid so that's what you get back.
They received bitcoins, not dollars. I can not send dollars to the bitcoin address they've specified on their invoce.

It is entirely up to BFL what service they'll use to receive bitcoin payments. I have no control what they do once they get my bitcoins. If they decide to use Vatican to receive my bitcoins, will I get back a Bible for refund?
Legal tender laws in the US = private debt can always be settled in USD.

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January 17, 2013, 02:11:29 PM
 #13

BFL's stance:

"If you are going to use BTC you need to understand how an exchange works. Many of you have chosen to use the BitPay option on our order page. Our products are offered for a USD price. BitPay takes your BTC, exchanges them for USD AT THE CURRENT EXCHANGE RATE and sends us your payment. If you ask for a refund, BitPay takes the dollars back from us, converts them back to BTC AT THE CURRENT EXCHANGE RATE and sends you the BTC. So if the exchange rate changes between the time you make your purchase and the time you get your refund, you will get a different amount back than you paid in."

What of the above is to hard to understand? Would you have cried so hard for bitcoins if the exchange rate would now be $2?
Thank Forum for the ignore button, good riddance to bad rubbish.

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becoin
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January 17, 2013, 02:13:08 PM
 #14

Legal tender laws in the US = private debt can always be settled in USD.
Of course, they CAN! However, their debt is denominated in bitcoins, not in dollars! I gave them bitcoins, not dollars! They MUST settle this debt AT CURRENT bitcoin/$ rate, not at the rate that was months ago!
becoin
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January 17, 2013, 02:17:06 PM
 #15

BFL's stance:
BFL' stance is different from MY stance. I'm right. They are wrong.
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January 17, 2013, 02:18:10 PM
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BFL's stance:
BFL' stance is different from MY stance. I'm right. They are wrong.

LOL
at least you are funny Wink

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January 17, 2013, 02:18:22 PM
 #17

Legal tender laws in the US = private debt can always be settled in USD.
Of course, they CAN! However, their debt is denominated in bitcoins, not in dollars! I gave them bitcoins, not dollars! They MUST settle this debt AT CURRENT bitcoin/$ rate, not at the rate that was months ago!

I'm fairly new to the bitcoin community and seeing people like this make me fear for its future.

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January 17, 2013, 02:19:56 PM
 #18

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/66-using-btc-exchange.html

Quote
Using BTC with an Exchange
by BFL_Jody  , 01-17-2013

If you are going to use BTC you need to understand how an exchange works. Many of you have chosen to use the BitPay option on our order page. Our products are offered for a USD price. BitPay takes your BTC, exchanges them for USD AT THE CURRENT EXCHANGE RATE and sends us your payment. If you ask for a refund, BitPay takes the dollars back from us, converts them back to BTC AT THE CURRENT EXCHANGE RATE and sends you the BTC. So if the exchange rate changes between the time you make your purchase and the time you get your refund, you will get a different amount back than you paid in.

I feel bad when our customers think we are cheating them because BTC has increased in value.


Sorry for my bad english Wink
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Grinder
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January 17, 2013, 02:35:44 PM
 #19

However, their debt is denominated in bitcoins, not in dollars!
I never thought I would defend BFL, but this is where you are exactly wrong. Once you understand that (which unfortunately seems unlikely), it will all make sense.
becoin
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January 17, 2013, 02:35:55 PM
 #20

Using BTC with an Exchange
by BFL_Jody  , 01-17-2013
If I wanted to use BTC Exchange I would have gone to MtGox. If I wanted to buy dollars certainly, I would have done this. But strangely, I wanted to buy an ASIC. At that time BFL seemed a good idea to me. So, I bought an ASIC. Not to BFL's stance... They claim they sold me dollars!
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