[Groupbuy] Jupiter KNCMiner (0.5 BTC shares)

[tyrion70]

Hello Newbies and welcome to the forum!

It was just brought to my attention that you are not allowed to reply on the threads in the Custom Hardware forum on IRC (nick tyrion70 )

We've started a groupbuy for KNC miners. If you want to join, drop a note here, on IRC (freenode same nick) or on email p2poolnl@gmail.com.

If you want to PM on the forum; u need one post to be able to PM

The details of the groupbuy can be found here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227400

Cheers!

[fishy]

Hello Newbies and welcome to the forum!

It was just brought to my attention that you are not allowed to reply on the threads in the Custom Hardware forum on IRC (nick tyrion70 )

We've started a groupbuy for KNC miners. If you want to join, drop a note here, on IRC (freenode same nick) or on email p2poolnl@gmail.com.

If you want to PM on the forum; u need one post to be able to PM

The details of the groupbuy can be found here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227400

Cheers!

KNC?

[tyrion70]

Yeah:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214285.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.0

and ofcourse

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227400.0

 

[KSV]

could you get john or some1 trusted to verify you pls. . .

[tyrion70]

Hi Sammel; What do u want confirmed and verified? And what do you consider trusted? As far as I know John K only offers escrow service.

[mikal]

One question about your rules:

If BTC price drops, you deduct the difference from the first payout. What happens if the price drops dramatically and difficulty goes up? Do you estimate the "worst case"? In that case, is it possible to get a refund in BTC instead?

[KSV]

Hi Sammel; What do u want confirmed and verified? And what do you consider trusted? As far as I know John K only offers escrow service.

well thats a good question. I guess that burden falls on you, if you find a way let me know as well - i would like to gain the trust i have in reality in this community too.

[tyrion70]

Hi Mikal,

The BTC price drop would have to occur within the next 48 hours since we are paying miners as soon as 120 shares are sold. We didn't mention anything about market volatilty with the first miner. When 120 shares were sold this afternoon we were confronted with a 62BTC bill instead of a 60BTC bill.

To answer the question; we haven't set a hard limit on the amount but if prices drop more below 100$ we'll ask everyone what to do.

Regarding difficulty; that won't change the next two days.. If difficulty goes up before september there's nothing we can do about it.. that's the risk we (all) take with these pre-orders..

Cheers,

[tyrion70]

well thats a good question. I guess that burden falls on you, if you find a way let me know as well - i would like to gain the trust i have in reality in this community too.

*grin* well in real life as well as in this community trust is one of the hardest things to quantify I guess..

We decided against escrow because that would cost 1,5 - 2 %. the only guarantee an escrow would buy you is that the money was actually send to KNC. We've proven already that we send the money for the last miner to KNC here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BtCTqdmmeW5bj9omPBWR22gS8RXb7xEV2

That's the best proof we can give untill KNC confirms the order and we can post a screenshot. (which offcourse isn't 100% proof either).

The real "risk" in this deal is not in trusting Blastbob and me (especially me; cause I don't believe in privacy anyway so it should be quite easy to find out who I am IRL) but trusting KNC to deliver what they promise when they promise.

Hope this helps

[MilkyLep]

Im enticed by the offer but im curious. Whats KNC's policy about non-delivery/refunds?

[tyrion70]

Hey MilkyLep,

In short: None...

Longer answer, it's a company based in Europe which makes it a little easier to take legal action in case something goes wrong.. That being said I'm assuming they need the money to pay for fabricating the miners.. It's not a risk-free investment so if fabrication goes wrong there won't be much left I think. That's actually the good part about a group buy; at least you won't have to risk the whole 62BTC..

[MilkyLep]

Thanks for the reply. As far as I understand there's no share payout after 24 months correct? If you move onto btct.co are there any changes you plan to make?

Edit:
If I were to send coins from a blockchain wallet would this suffice? Or is it vital/preferred to download and run a btc client?

[tyrion70]

Hi MilkyLep,

Correct, although I honestly believe we won't even get that far if you look at what happened the last two years. Mining on the machines stops when it's not profitable anymore or after two years cause you have to set a limit anyhow.

We haven't thought the btct plan through 100% yet. We could simply convert the current shares 1-1 to btct which would make them transferable more easy (and more anonymous). It would also save a great deal of administration for dividend payments. To make this a more long-term venture we would have to find a way to expand though. What seems  likely is to do a bigger IPO. Or do a completely seperate IPO and offer everyone a choice of converting or keeping it as it is.

With the returns of a bigger or seperate IPO we could invest in more hardware which would be necessary to keep the operation running. All in all, food for thought for the following months. We will come up with a plan before the mining starts (somewhere in July probably) and ofcourse ask the shareholders what they think.

Cheers

EDIT: To answer your second question; you can send from a blockchain wallet. If unsure of the send address; PM the transaction ID together with the payout address you'd like.

[blastbob]

Miner 6 and 7 is bought. We are working on the miner08 now. yay.

[KSV]

well thats a good question. I guess that burden falls on you, if you find a way let me know as well - i would like to gain the trust i have in reality in this community too.

*grin* well in real life as well as in this community trust is one of the hardest things to quantify I guess..

We decided against escrow because that would cost 1,5 - 2 %. the only guarantee an escrow would buy you is that the money was actually send to KNC. We've proven already that we send the money for the last miner to KNC here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BtCTqdmmeW5bj9omPBWR22gS8RXb7xEV2

That's the best proof we can give untill KNC confirms the order and we can post a screenshot. (which offcourse isn't 100% proof either).

The real "risk" in this deal is not in trusting Blastbob and me (especially me; cause I don't believe in privacy anyway so it should be quite easy to find out who I am IRL) but trusting KNC to deliver what they promise when they promise.

Hope this helps

it does thanks

[KSV]

and sorry but i had to ask that Q

[tyrion70]

and sorry but i had to ask that Q

If I were you I'd ask the same.. No offence taken whatsoever!

[zulufields]

I know this question may have been asked but what are your expected costs of hosting per share ? also do you have a hardware failiure prediction estimate ?
and any predictions on what you could hope to give as a return per share over the next 24 months ?
thanks I am really considering this.

[tyrion70]

Hi Zulufields,

Your questions haven't been asked but that's probably because the answer is quite difficult.. I'll try to answer all of them:

- Expected costs of hosting per share
We are looking at different options in Holland and Norway. We don't know what the costs of hosting at KNC yet. It looks like hosting a single miner will cost around € 400,- euro a month (this is a really rough estimate). Mainly because racks usually have 32Amps and one miner uses almost 5 Amps. It mainly depends on final power usage numbers; heat and size since those numbers aren't 100% sure yet.

- hardware failure prediction estimate
No we don't. Although we believe that it will be possible to replace parts of the device if broken. This is one of the reasons why we want to have as much miners as possible to spread risk. It's probably possible to tune the machines; we will do that only if we know for sure it doesn't shorten lifespan.

- returns per share over next 24 months
This is the most difficult question. At current difficulty one Jupiter will mine 11.2793 BTC a day (Look here for calculations http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/). That means break even within a week. However there's no way to tell what the difficulty is going to be when we get the miners. Last few times difficulty went up between 10 and 20% per ~two weeks (http://bitcoin.sipa.be/). With 15% per two weeks difficulty will be around 300% of what it is now so payout will be 3.7768 BTC a day which means a break-even of 18 days. Look at the numbers mentioned above and play a bit with the numbers.. Realise yourself though that these miners themselves will have a huge impact on the difficulty.

Hope this helps,
Cheers,

[Harryman]

Looking forward to delivery!