Decentralized Exchanges Are Illegal.

[Stampbit]

According to FINCEN.

Edit:

I figured people would connect the dots. FINCEN requires anyone operating as a business who exchanges one currency for another to register as a Money Services Business, whose compliance costs millions of dollars. Naturally this would only allow a few key players to operate as such, therefore decentralized exchanges are not legally possible, and because the regulation is applied to anyone using the entry/exit points that are the banks it is not technically possible either to operate outside the bounds of regulation.

[puffpuffpass]

According to FINCEN.

I hope they shut down Bitcoin. Would be funny.

[threeip]

According to FINCEN.

Not if every person registers as a MSB?
Coming soon, MSB forms stapled to birth certificates 

[ninjaboon]

According to FINCEN.

I hope they shut down Bitcoin. Would be funny.

They would have to shut off the Internet in it's entirety.

[puffpuffpass]

According to FINCEN.

I hope they shut down Bitcoin. Would be funny.

They would have to shut off the Internet in it's entirety.

Shows what an idiot you are.

[westkybitcoins]

According to FINCEN.

*Shrug*

They're decentralized. The legality doesn't matter, they'll have a pretty rough time stopping them.

[bluemeanie1]

According to FINCEN.

care to back up that statement with some information?

I know it's asking a lot around here.

[2D]

According to FINCEN.

I hope they shut down Bitcoin. Would be funny.

They would have to shut off the Internet in it's entirety.

Shows what an idiot you are.

PPP dazzling us with his razor sharp intellect again

[empoweoqwj]

According to FINCEN.

Out for your Sunday morning Troll I see.

[grue]

bait topic is bait

[BTCTalkAccounts]

-

[desert_beagle]

When the government gets hold of some people and puts them in federal penitentiary for felony tax evasion, people will learn.  You DON'T need a big red "OFF" button to shut down bitcoin.  Bitcoin is very fragile.  For crying out loud people go into panic mode whenever they see a large sell order.  Also any new laws or regulations will deter future investors thus preventing new "fiat" from coming in.

[Cryptoman]

According to FINCEN.

Not if every person registers as a MSB?
Coming soon, MSB forms stapled to birth certificates 

It's probably true that trading in any sort of unregistered or un-tracked financial instrument is or will soon be illegal in most jurisdictions.  That's why any type of decentralized exchange, to be successful in the long run, must be anonymous/pseudonymous.  On the positive side, all of the restrictions governments are imposing on fiat currencies are making them less and less like real money every day.  That can only bode well for the value of cryptocurrencies, and we may soon be much less interested in exchanging them with fiat.

[GGGGG]

So is Silk Road - the whole point is that P2P solutions cannot be destroyed by outside forces.

[acceptance2]

When the government gets hold of some people and puts them in federal penitentiary for felony tax evasion, people will learn.  You DON'T need a big red "OFF" button to shut down bitcoin.  Bitcoin is very fragile.  For crying out loud people go into panic mode whenever they see a large sell order.  Also any new laws or regulations will deter future investors thus preventing new "fiat" from coming in.

Good thing Bitcoin is " the world currency " and not owned, managed or controlled by the US.

As BTC becomes more widely distributed, any actions the US takes will be tantamount to pissing in the wind.

It will take time but there is no doubt it will survive attacks from those slowly losing control.

And eventually THRIVE, just like BitTorrent. 

[Prophet]

Bitcoin will not survive.

It was not designed to, it is only an experiment to test the waters; The real global champion will
be the one that rises from it's ashes, better, faster, stronger: Anti-fragile perfected.

We are already seeing the emergence of a true world government by the people for the people and for
that the first shot is establishing a currency that no nation or corporation can control. You can almost
say that Bitcoin is the internet nations currency an underlying web that connects everyone in the
planet now with a currency to match.

Smile and wave, we are the new Boston tea party.

that exchange that people are talking about, who cares if it is illegal? If it's useful people will use it and
even those who wish to stop it will see the ideology behind it and they will make the same mistake they
always do, enforcing it by the point of a gun, taking away ones logic or their life. silly rabbits tricks are for kids.

[gollum]

According to FINCEN.

They can jerk off

[crazynoggin]

Maybe it is time to have a major decentralized cryptotrading site on the tor network even if this is a troll.

[BitcoinBarrel]

Wouldn't surprise me if giving your kid a pop tart is illegal nowadays.

[bigdude]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

[KSV]

According to FINCEN.

they cant regulate the whole world, it will be fun for us to watch them try tho.

[UncleBobs]

The regime is tightening its sinister grip!  Be afraid!  Run! Run!!!

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/130607/what-if-journalists-covered-us-like-they-cover-world

[BTCLuke]

I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't already have the OP and PuffPuffPass on ignore yet.

Judging by your reactions, they're doing a Grade A troll job here.

[esenminer]

This is not true. Nothing in FinCEN prevents you from trading Bitcoins for other cryptocurrency or for FIAT as long as you are acting on your own behalf (i.e. not a business).

The actual method of trading whether centralized or decentralized or meeting at your mom's house has no bearing.

FinCEN applies to US companies which act for consumers as a money services businesses - think Western Union - it doesn't apply to individuals.

You should claim and pay taxes on all income when / if you convert to FIAT.

If selling Bitcoins for cash was illegal so would selling your used gpu or your grandma's antique furniture.

[Stampbit]

FINCEN covers anyone who transfers money between two parties, be it virtual or real, they are therefore a MSB and must be registered as such. The cost of doing so is millions of dollars on the state level, and anyone who trades USD or with americans must be regulated. Ripple and any decentralized exchange theory therefore will be illegal as no one within the network can afford to be regulated. Even if such a network existed on tor it must at some point interface with the banks and it is at that point that FINCEN can begin hanging people to scare the rest into submission.

[Stampbit]

I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't already have the OP and PuffPuffPass on ignore yet.

Judging by your reactions, they're doing a Grade A troll job here.

The only trolls here are the ones still living under a bridge.

[drrussellshane]

Wouldn't surprise me if giving your kid a pop tart is illegal nowadays.

I don't know, but if your kid bites that pop tart into the shape of a pistol, you may be an accessory.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/01/pop-tart-pistol-7-year-old-gets-suspende

[AlternaPost]

Does anyone have a specific source for this claim?

[worldinacoin]

Bitcoin isn't an exchange at all, it is a software!

[BitcoinAshley]

When the government gets hold of some people and puts them in federal penitentiary for felony tax evasion, people will learn.  You DON'T need a big red "OFF" button to shut down bitcoin.  Bitcoin is very fragile.  For crying out loud people go into panic mode whenever they see a large sell order.  Also any new laws or regulations will deter future investors thus preventing new "fiat" from coming in.

LOL, wtf are you talking about? The government puts people in jail for felony tax evasion all the time, and people STILL evade taxes at a felony level. So what makes you think the deterrence will suddenly start working now that it's even EASIER do to it undetectably? 

That's like saying "When the government gets hold of some people and slaps a huge fine on them for felony copyright violation, people will learn - they will all suddenly STOP using torrents!"

For the record, regulation decreases supply and increases demand. Wild short-term fluctuations are not relevant. A few months ago bitcoin was $10 and a few years ago it was $1 and before that it was one cent. Try some perspective before you FUD yourself to death.

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

According to FINCEN.

I hope they shut down Bitcoin. Would be funny.

They would have to shut off the Internet in it's entirety.

its starting....back to the smoke signal coin

[owsleybeatsbigcartel]

According to FINCEN.

FINCOIN ? >> pos i kaint get it to sync ! =) ha

[kelsey]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

Yeah mate, think too many on here and the US gov seems to forget there's a big wide world out there outside of the USA.

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

[bigdude]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

Well not really. The problem is, even if you are based OUTSIDE of the US, how do you accept USD deposits. And how do you send them when they are withdrawn.

That's why Mt.Gox had trouble in the US, they still had accounts there, even though they aren't based there.

So, how does an exchange get around that?

[kelsey]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

Well not really. The problem is, even if you are based OUTSIDE of the US, how do you accept USD deposits. And how do you send them when they are withdrawn.

That's why Mt.Gox had trouble in the US, they still had accounts there, even though they aren't based there.

So, how does an exchange get around that?

And why do you even need to accept USD?...hell I've been in btc from early on, never seen or touched a USD in my life. Simple don't trade in USD like 95% of the worlds population

[bigdude]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

Well not really. The problem is, even if you are based OUTSIDE of the US, how do you accept USD deposits. And how do you send them when they are withdrawn.

That's why Mt.Gox had trouble in the US, they still had accounts there, even though they aren't based there.

So, how does an exchange get around that?

And why do you even need to accept USD?...hell I've been in btc from early on, never seen or touched a USD in my life. Simple don't trade in USD like 95% of the worlds population

My point was that as an EXCHANGE, you would really want to accept USD right? otherwise you are cutting out a big market - ie. all US peeps

[jackjack]

According to FINCEN.

Yeah
Come at me FINCEN

[crumbs]

According to FINCEN.

Yeah
Come at me FINCEN

You're not from US, but for those who care about FINCEN:
"An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency"
Cut, paste & Google

[gollum]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

Well not really. The problem is, even if you are based OUTSIDE of the US, how do you accept USD deposits. And how do you send them when they are withdrawn.

That's why Mt.Gox had trouble in the US, they still had accounts there, even though they aren't based there.

So, how does an exchange get around that?

Assume that you have a legal forex-deealershop anywhere in the world (except US), noone can stop you from selling bitcoins and receive dollar bills. or any other currency.

[Bitcoinpro]

its a troll thread it should really be deleted 

[Bitcoinpro]

FinCEN have said the opposite

this thread is defamation against FinCEN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

[Micky25]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population  

Yeah mate, think too many on here and the US gov seems to forget there's a big wide world out there outside of the USA.

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

2013-04-11 Israeli banks limit money connected to bitcoin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173108.0

[EDIT] ^ old story

Here the current news:
http://www.coindesk.com/israel-banks-resisting-bitcoin-exchanges/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173108.msg2425367#msg2425367

[jackjack]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

Yeah mate, think too many on here and the US gov seems to forget there's a big wide world out there outside of the USA.

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

2013-04-11 Israeli banks limit money connected to bitcoin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173108.0

Israel being the 51st state, it's not surprising at all

[KSV]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

Well not really. The problem is, even if you are based OUTSIDE of the US, how do you accept USD deposits. And how do you send them when they are withdrawn.

That's why Mt.Gox had trouble in the US, they still had accounts there, even though they aren't based there.

So, how does an exchange get around that?

And why do you even need to accept USD?...hell I've been in btc from early on, never seen or touched a USD in my life. Simple don't trade in USD like 95% of the worlds population

simple, USD has to be wired out the country to be exchanged into BTC.

[KSV]

fincen = USA

What about the other 95% of the population 

Yeah mate, think too many on here and the US gov seems to forget there's a big wide world out there outside of the USA.

Also funny that most of these exchanges base themselves in the US.....dat just askin for trouble.

2013-04-11 Israeli banks limit money connected to bitcoin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173108.0

Israel being the 51st state, it's not surprising at all

Puerto Rico is the 51st state. . .

[Stampbit]

OP updated for clarification, its not nice to call people trolls who choose not to think for you.

[joesmoe2012]

This is not true. Nothing in FinCEN prevents you from trading Bitcoins for other cryptocurrency or for FIAT as long as you are acting on your own behalf (i.e. not a business).

The actual method of trading whether centralized or decentralized or meeting at your mom's house has no bearing.

FinCEN applies to US companies which act for consumers as a money services businesses - think Western Union - it doesn't apply to individuals.

You should claim and pay taxes on all income when / if you convert to FIAT.

If selling Bitcoins for cash was illegal so would selling your used gpu or your grandma's antique furniture.

This post is full of inaccuracies.

I suggest you stop posting and  start reading.

[esenminer]

This is not true. Nothing in FinCEN prevents you from trading Bitcoins for other cryptocurrency or for FIAT as long as you are acting on your own behalf (i.e. not a business).

The actual method of trading whether centralized or decentralized or meeting at your mom's house has no bearing.

FinCEN applies to US companies which act for consumers as a money services businesses - think Western Union - it doesn't apply to individuals.

You should claim and pay taxes on all income when / if you convert to FIAT.

If selling Bitcoins for cash was illegal so would selling your used gpu or your grandma's antique furniture.

This post is full of inaccuracies.

I suggest you stop posting and  start reading.

All this information is from the FinCEN advisories - what else do you suggest I read? In fact the latest out of FinCEN confirms everything I have said:

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/speech/pdf/20130613.pdf

Which points are inaccurate?

[prophetx]

Well not really. The problem is, even if you are based OUTSIDE of the US, how do you accept USD deposits. And how do you send them when they are withdrawn.

That's why Mt.Gox had trouble in the US, they still had accounts there, even though they aren't based there.

So, how does an exchange get around that?

And why do you even need to accept USD?...hell I've been in btc from early on, never seen or touched a USD in my life. Simple don't trade in USD like 95% of the worlds population

simple, USD has to be wired out the country to be exchanged into BTC.

I guess you have never heard of USD denominated checking accounts in non-USA based banks have you... they have been around for decades.