Good News: Avalon ASIC Samples shipped, (sorry for the panic over the weekend)

[zefir]

Edit:
BitSyncom clarified that this was a miscommunication here and sample chips will be in fact provided per 10k batch.

Sorry for causing panic over the weekend.

Folks, miners and Avalon ASIC board developers,

I just got emailed from Avalon that the sample chips for the ASIC chips ordered are shipped. Even received an EMS shipping number, great news!

But I was also informed that only one set of sample chips will be delivered to one receiver address, which essentially means that you will receive 30 samples, no matter if you ordered 10k or 200k chips.

Given that I did the group buy with 70k chips for almost 300 users and there are at least 10 projects working on mining boards and desperately awaiting the samples for validation, this is disastrous news. It means that only one or two of them will be given the chance to finalize their design before chips arrive.

Very disappointing

[SebastianJu]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg2421403#msg2421403

The result will most probably be for my group buy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=187660.msg2422271#msg2422271

[k9quaint]

Folks, miners and Avalon ASIC board developers,

I just got emailed from Avalon that the sample chips for the ASIC chips ordered are shipped. Even received an EMS shipping number, great news!

But I was also informed that only one set of sample chips will be delivered to one receiver address, which essentially means that you will receive 30 samples, no matter if you ordered 10k or 200k chips.

Given that I did the group buy with 70k chips for almost 300 users and there are at least 10 projects working on mining boards and desperately awaiting the samples for validation, this is disastrous news. It means that only one or two of them will be given the chance to finalize their design before chips arrive.

Very disappointing

Ouch. That is going to leave a mark. 

[fasmax]

Maybe the developers that do get the chips can share chip application information with everyone.
The Avalon data sheet left out a lot of information that can be acquired by developers applying the chip to their designs.
Hopefully some developers will share lessons learned with the community.
 

[flyonwall]

I need only one chip, a single chip, to verify a clone I am building based on Avalon published data. At the logical level, I can model the chips on a hashing unit, and run that model using another Spartan FPGA, but it would take time to produce even just a logical-level model.

If it is difficult for me, building just a clone of the original Avalon design, what more for those who are trying to come up with their own design, like Bkkcoin's Klondike.

[clicksmoney]

That's a bit shee-ty  but it was really a bonus

[frejo]

I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.

[allten]

Very disappointing indeed.

If there's room for just one to come my way. I would really appreciate it.

thanks,
   Allten

[k9quaint]

I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.

If 2 groups are designing 16 chip boards, how can you distribute 30 chips to them equitably?
I think the escrow folks are going to have to put the screws to Avalon for more samples, or ask for their money back.

At least there are samples. 2 steps forward, 1 back. 

[frejo]

I don't have an exact count but aren't there like 4-5 groupbuys? those that come out of my mind are zefir, t13hyda, biswoo (or someting like that), sebastianju, steamboat
That should give like 120-150 samples, maybe each group buy could support atleast one developer?

[wrenchmonkey]

I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.

If 2 groups are designing 16 chip boards, how can you distribute 30 chips to them equitably?
I think the escrow folks are going to have to put the screws to Avalon for more samples, or ask for their money back.

At least there are samples. 2 steps forward, 1 back. 
[/quote

The escrow folks have zero pull here. The arrangements for escrow were between the group buy organizers and participants. Once the orders were full, the payment was made directly to Avalon. Escrow agents can do nothing about it. Payment's been made.

[k9quaint]

I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.

If 2 groups are designing 16 chip boards, how can you distribute 30 chips to them equitably?
I think the escrow folks are going to have to put the screws to Avalon for more samples, or ask for their money back.

At least there are samples. 2 steps forward, 1 back. 

The escrow folks have zero pull here. The arrangements for escrow were between the group buy organizers and participants. Once the orders were full, the payment was made directly to Avalon. Escrow agents can do nothing about it. Payment's been made.

IIRC, Avalon said 30 sample chips per order, then changed it to 30 sample chips per shipping address. If that is true then they can take Avalon to court for breach of contract.

[SebastianJu]

I think we should just trust the group buy owners to co-ordinate and distribute the samples among the developers they think has the greatest chance of making good use of them.

If 2 groups are designing 16 chip boards, how can you distribute 30 chips to them equitably?
I think the escrow folks are going to have to put the screws to Avalon for more samples, or ask for their money back.

At least there are samples. 2 steps forward, 1 back. 

The escrow folks have zero pull here. The arrangements for escrow were between the group buy organizers and participants. Once the orders were full, the payment was made directly to Avalon. Escrow agents can do nothing about it. Payment's been made.

IIRC, Avalon said 30 sample chips per order, then changed it to 30 sample chips per shipping address. If that is true then they can take Avalon to court for breach of contract.

They only wrote: "sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering." That leaves room for interpretation...

[turtle83]

IIRC, Avalon said 30 sample chips per order, then changed it to 30 sample chips per shipping address. If that is true then they can take Avalon to court for breach of contract.

  China 

Good luck with that. Maybe ull have better luck suing BFL.

Lying to make a sale is really common... and Avalon people seem very sincere to me.

[wrenchmonkey]

I don't think there's any court case in this, but it's a really shitty thing for Avalon to do. They knew full well what they were implying, and they knew full well how it was interpreted by the market, due to the frenzy of discussion on the topic. They never made any attempt to clarify until well after it was too late for anybody to base their decisions on that information.

REALLY shitty for Avalon to be such tightwads over a set of chips that cost them maybe $100 to manufacture, on $100,000+ orders. Steamboat has organized 5 group buys up to this point. That's over half a million bucks worth of orders, and they're gonna stiff him for $400 worth of chips? Ouch!

That said, they don't appear to have done anything illegal. And even if they did, I've been dealing with the Chinese for long enough to not be surprised by it in the least...

[Xialla]

They only wrote: "sample chips will be provided 4 weeks into ordering." That leaves room for interpretation...

I really can't believe, that company, which sell product in price of new luxury car, communicate in this way. Also is really shit, that depends, how many addresses you use, and absolutly no matter, how many chips you ordered. Only reason for this behavior is, that there is not competitor on the market yet. Once there will be, it will much improve this kind of approach.

[k9quaint]

IIRC, Avalon said 30 sample chips per order, then changed it to 30 sample chips per shipping address. If that is true then they can take Avalon to court for breach of contract.

  China 

Good luck with that. Maybe ull have better luck suing BFL.

Lying to make a sale is really common... and Avalon people seem very sincere to me.

I would imagine the escrow agents would sue in their jurisdiction first and then if successful try to get that judgement enforced where the company has assets. That is the usual method for going after international companies.

Without seeing the actual contract terms, it is impossible to know how much leeway Avalon has. Plus, Avalon has $8 million dollars in one bitcoin address and that will buy a lot of lawyers.

[whitefeather]

~300 users, 10+ projects, only 30 chip samples. Very disappointing indeed.

[mat542]

This is good news for difficulty.

[rammy2k2]

i consider it good news overall