PRISM - Who else is disgusted by this?

[bernard75]

http://www.interpol.int/News-and-media/News-media-releases/2013/PR091

How convienient for the scare mongers...

[Spendulus]

Its your responsibility to not give out informations you dont want to

This cannot be realistically done by most people in today's modern society. The internet has become a necessary part of life for most of us.

BTW, it seems that tor is having some sort of "outage" and may be under attack because a great many sites are down. Some onion posters are claiming that tor sites are "updating" but that's crazy - how could some 80% of the sites that I normally visit all be updating at the same time? Plus very few sites work when random surfing.

What's your opinion of tor vs vpn?  And of vpn with the terminal node in the US, for a US user, versus choosing one overseas?

[justusranvier]

BTW, it seems that tor is having some sort of "outage" and may be under attack because a great many sites are down. Some onion posters are claiming that tor sites are "updating" but that's crazy - how could some 80% of the sites that I normally visit all be updating at the same time? Plus very few sites work when random surfing.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267624.0

What's your opinion of tor vs vpn?  And of vpn with the terminal node in the US, for a US user, versus choosing one overseas?

The greatest security (along with the greatest performance cost) comes from using both.

Sign up for a VPN that uses a standard OpenVPN client (like AirVPN), and configure your OpenVPN software to connect via Tor. That way the VPN provider can't know where you're accessing from, and you can access web sites that block known Tor exit nodes.

[Spendulus]

BTW, it seems that tor is having some sort of "outage" and may be under attack because a great many sites are down. Some onion posters are claiming that tor sites are "updating" but that's crazy - how could some 80% of the sites that I normally visit all be updating at the same time? Plus very few sites work when random surfing.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267624.0

What's your opinion of tor vs vpn?  And of vpn with the terminal node in the US, for a US user, versus choosing one overseas?

The greatest security (along with the greatest performance cost) comes from using both.

Sign up for a VPN that uses a standard OpenVPN client (like AirVPN), and configure your OpenVPN software to connect via Tor. That way the VPN provider can't know where you're accessing from, and you can access web sites that block known Tor exit nodes.

Done.

But are you asserting that under the VPN/Tor Evil Twins, the question of locus outside or inside the US does not exist?

And also, I think my prior question remains as valid, for those modes of use that can't allow the sllllooooooowwwww down that seems to plague Tor.

[justusranvier]

But are you asserting that under the VPN/Tor Evil Twins, the question of locus outside or inside the US does not exist?

And also, I think my prior question remains as valid, for those modes of use that can't allow the sllllooooooowwwww down that seems to plague Tor.

It depends on what you're trying to access and your threat model.

A VPN alone will protect you from ISP-level surveillance, but the VPN provider can compromise your privacy. That might be an acceptable risk if the provider is located in a different country.

Tor is potentially more secure if used correctly, but many web sites block Tor exit nodes.

I'd like to see some VPN providers allow access to their system via I2P, as that network is better optimized for hidden services so should get better performance than a Tor connection.

[alephi]

Woowoo bogeyman alert, time to justify the NSA and GCHQ spying activities...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/04/nsa-us-embassy-closures-terrorist-threat

[bernard75]

Wouldnt surprise me at all if they cease all operations and activities or even sponsor some radicals until the public cries for their help and thus all their secret programs. Would be just the logical consequence to justify their crimes from an institution point of view.

[Spendulus]

Wouldnt surprise me at all if they cease all operations and activities or even sponsor some radicals until the public cries for their help and thus all their secret programs. Would be just the logical consequence to justify their crimes from an institution point of view.

I'll go for that.

Stop Obama supporting Al Queda, sending them weapons under the table.

[QuantumKiwi]

Wouldnt surprise me at all if they cease all operations and activities or even sponsor some radicals until the public cries for their help and thus all their secret programs. Would be just the logical consequence to justify their crimes from an institution point of view.

I'll go for that.

Stop Obama supporting Al Queda, sending them weapons under the table.

"  Al Queda " is just a puppet.

[Spendulus]

Wouldnt surprise me at all if they cease all operations and activities or even sponsor some radicals until the public cries for their help and thus all their secret programs. Would be just the logical consequence to justify their crimes from an institution point of view.

I'll go for that.

Stop Obama supporting Al Queda, sending them weapons under the table.

"  Al Queda " is just a puppet.

No, it would be nice if it was that simple.  But Muslims will not tell you that. 

Al Queda's leader was OBL, disciple of Sayyed Qutbe.  He was head of the Muslim Brotherhood under Nassir and was executed for treason.  Qutbe wrote a series of pamplets or "books", essentially extensions to the Koran.  Believers in that crap are the radical Muslims who started attacking the west, and it continues today.

 

[cWq34#9tH-3]

Its your responsibility to not give out informations you dont want to

This cannot be realistically done by most people in today's modern society. The internet has become a necessary part of life for most of us.

BTW, it seems that tor is having some sort of "outage" and may be under attack because a great many sites are down. Some onion posters are claiming that tor sites are "updating" but that's crazy - how could some 80% of the sites that I normally visit all be updating at the same time? Plus very few sites work when random surfing.

What's your opinion of tor vs vpn?  And of vpn with the terminal node in the US, for a US user, versus choosing one overseas?

Tails first, Tor standalone second (using linux os and one other security recommendation which I will only give via pm), vpn second choice (because here you're trusting your privacy to third party that could be arm-twisted.). Overseas is prob. better. TorrentFreak has a great list of the best choices with detailed explanations. Tails over vpn is prob. very good. Then the best-bet overall is a new laptop purchased while in disguise, paid with cash, then walking blocks away to a fast-food restaurant bathroom to get out of disguise...then back to your car and home....and thereafter accessing only "other" open wifi networks. Of course, I don't go to that extreme measure - because I need convenient everyday access at home. Then again I suppose I could use a neighbors network but I wouldn't do that without permission ...because that just wouldn't be right.

BTW, I'm really enjoying the high-level of convo here! The one obvious jack-booted boot-licking paid shill disinfo agent notwithstanding...

[cWq34#9tH-3]

Woowoo bogeyman alert, time to justify the NSA and GCHQ spying activities...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/04/nsa-us-embassy-closures-terrorist-threat

I wouldn't put it past them, since they've already openly crossed numerous boundaries that not all that long ago would have led to a civil war. Woah Man people were crazy back then, weren't they?!! - Thank God that we live in these times when people handle things by talking them out!

[tvbcof]

Wouldnt surprise me at all if they cease all operations and activities or even sponsor some radicals until the public cries for their help and thus all their secret programs. Would be just the logical consequence to justify their crimes from an institution point of view.

I'll go for that.

Stop Obama supporting Al Queda, sending them weapons under the table.

"  Al Queda " is just a puppet.

No, it would be nice if it was that simple.  But Muslims will not tell you that. 

Al Queda's leader was OBL, disciple of Sayyed Qutbe.  He was head of the Muslim Brotherhood under Nassir and was executed for treason.  Qutbe wrote a series of pamplets or "books", essentially extensions to the Koran.  Believers in that crap are the radical Muslims who started attacking the west, and it continues today.
 

OBL mostly bought his way in as best I can tell, and probably using some of my tax dollars as he was a CIA asset back in those days...and I personally suspect that he still is.  You are probably thinking the medical doctor Iman Al-Zawari (sp?) who was the leader of the more extreme group that OBL became associated with, and who was strongly influenced by his Egyptian countryman Qutbe (sp?)

As I understand things Al Queda translates to 'the base', and it was a database of individuals who our intelligence services knew about and could call on for various operations, though that does not necessarily mean that they are employees or anything such as that.  OBL didn't start using the moniker 'Al Queda' for 'his' organization until our court system used the word in association with legal action against some incidence of terrorism.  The first WTC attack or a boat attack IIRC.

I strongly suggest the documentary http://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-Episode1BabyItsColdOutside for anyone interested in this stuff.  It's fascinating (to me.)

And yes, I think it is pretty clear that the US government has supplied 'Al Queda' with weapons periodically since the Soviets were in Afghanistan.  Happened in the Balkans struggles under Clinton (I believe) and it is almost certainly happening now big time in Syria under Obama.

[Spendulus]

......

And yes, I think it is pretty clear that the US government has supplied 'Al Queda' with weapons periodically since the Soviets were in Afghanistan.  Happened in the Balkans struggles under Clinton (I believe) and it is almost certainly happening now big time in Syria under Obama.

Pretty much just like I said.

Qutb has no exact English spelling by the way, and when I posted the diatribe on the radical religious underpinnings, that does not mean there are no political currents.  No, I wasn't referring to the doc, although he essentially does have the same roots.

The disciples of Qutb are our enemies, no if ands buts.  That means Al Queda, the Muslim Brotherhood.

So yeah, Obama and cronies is with our enemies.

In saying this I realize that no doubt in some complex regional conflict some local Al Queda or M. Brotherhood group might find themselves on our side temporarily under shifting conditions, that is largely irrelevant except to third rate policy hacks.

I am no expert on Middle East, but I do know the antics of amateurs and that's what I'm seeing in our flailing actions for the last several years.

[tvbcof]

......

And yes, I think it is pretty clear that the US government has supplied 'Al Queda' with weapons periodically since the Soviets were in Afghanistan.  Happened in the Balkans struggles under Clinton (I believe) and it is almost certainly happening now big time in Syria under Obama.

Pretty much just like I said.

Qutb has no exact English spelling by the way, and when I posted the diatribe on the radical religious underpinnings, that does not mean there are no political currents.  No, I wasn't referring to the doc, although he essentially does have the same roots.

The disciples of Qutb are our enemies, no if ands buts.  That means Al Queda, the Muslim Brotherhood.

So yeah, Obama and cronies is with our enemies.

In saying this I realize that no doubt in some complex regional conflict some local Al Queda or M. Brotherhood group might find themselves on our side temporarily under shifting conditions, that is largely irrelevant except to third rate policy hacks.

I am no expert on Middle East, but I do know the antics of amateurs and that's what I'm seeing in our flailing actions for the last several years.

The 'disciples of Qutb' are not my enemies.  I don't care for them much, but they are no different to me than people who bomb abortion clinics.  A vast majority of Muslims and Christians are just normal people and probably have a higher then average amount of morality and care for their fellow humans.  Many are also not terribly bright else they would have found more credible answers to life's mysteries.

The simple fact of the matter is that I am about as likely to be hit by lightning than injured by some Islamic terrorist, and the chances are only that high because the US does everything possible to provoke terrorism.  If someone was doing 'signature strikes' and 'double-taps' with drones over my neighborhood from some command center half way around the world you can bet that the citizens of the country who was doing this would not be safe around me.

On the other hand, corrupt politicians who allow corporations to price gouge and bankers to leverage our economy into a perilous state are a direct and immediate threat to me and my way of life.  Sounds like you have drunk the kool-aid and directed your fear and anger in exactly the direction you are supposed to as a 'good American'.  You are not alone.  The 'terrorist' are nothing but tools that our leadership uses to achieve certain goals and ultimately induce American citizens to support projects which benefit their sponsors.

It is no surprise to me that populations rally behind groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, and Hezbollah.  Considering the alternatives offered, these groups are clearly more concerned about the well-being of the average citizen and their respective countries.  The leaderships propped up by the West tend to be corrupt scum who sell-out their own countrymen.  I remember when they called me up to fight for some king in Kuwait and said that once the king is re-installed America will work toward democracy in these Arab kingdoms.  It's been several decades and the only action I've seen is sending the monarchies more weapons to oppress their populations so forgive me if I find all of the BS about 'democracy' to be a completely hollow sham.

You are not seeing the work of 'armatures' though it useful to our leaders for you to think that.  What you are seeing is a well engineered scheme to re-direct your attention.  And it's working.

[Spendulus]

......

And yes, I think it is pretty clear that the US government has supplied 'Al Queda' with weapons periodically since the Soviets were in Afghanistan.  Happened in the Balkans struggles under Clinton (I believe) and it is almost certainly happening now big time in Syria under Obama.

Pretty much just like I said.

Qutb has no exact English spelling by the way, and when I posted the diatribe on the radical religious underpinnings, that does not mean there are no political currents.  No, I wasn't referring to the doc, although he essentially does have the same roots.

The disciples of Qutb are our enemies, no if ands buts.  That means Al Queda, the Muslim Brotherhood.

So yeah, Obama and cronies is with our enemies.

In saying this I realize that no doubt in some complex regional conflict some local Al Queda or M. Brotherhood group might find themselves on our side temporarily under shifting conditions, that is largely irrelevant except to third rate policy hacks.

I am no expert on Middle East, but I do know the antics of amateurs and that's what I'm seeing in our flailing actions for the last several years.

The 'disciples of Qutb' are not my enemies.  I don't care for them much, but they are no different to me than people who bomb abortion clinics.  A vast majority of Muslims and Christians are just normal people and probably have a higher then average amount of morality and care for their fellow humans.

 ......no surprise to me that populations rally behind groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, and Hezbollah.  Considering the alternatives offered, these groups are clearly more concerned about the well-being of the average citizen and their respective countries.  The leaderships propped up by the West tend to be corrupt scum who sell-out their own countrymen.  I remember when they called me up to fight for some king in Kuwait and said that once the king is re-installed America will work toward democracy in these Arab kingdoms.  It's been several decades and the only action I've seen is sending the monarchies more weapons to oppress their populations so forgive me if I find all of the BS about 'democracy' to be a completely hollow sham.

You are not seeing the work of 'armatures' though it useful to our leaders for you to think that.  What you are seeing is a well engineered scheme to re-direct your attention.  And it's working.

I see your points but do not believe they are inconsistent or contradict what I noted.   There has of course never been any organized group dedicated to meeting out death to providers of abortion clinics.  A comparison cannot be made between isolated cases of abortion clinic bombings, and radical Muslim bombings.

First, the current American propaganda is quite diffuse and confused.  It does not and has never indicated the Qutb spinoffs as problematic as I have done.   Even strict Wahhibi Muslims will agree with what I have said, because the Qutb teaches violence and death to Westerners.  They are your enemies by their own proclamation, whatever your opinion may be.

If some sect believes not in Islam but in Islam plus a group of 30 extensions which preach killing, this should be acknowledged for what it is.  

Clearly this is not the same subject as rationale private or public for Iraq 1/Iraq 2 etc.

My comments were and are directed more at the issue of "why did Muslim bombings/hijacking/killing of Westerners begin 30-40 years ago and why has it continued to the present day virtually unchanged."  At the same time, the risk of you or I being the victim of such terrorism is ridiculously small.

The purpose of terrorist actions is not to target you or I, but to target the world wide media system for maximum exposure by way of random brutality.

[humanitee]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

I don't even know what to say anymore.

[Nik1ab]

That's how the USA is...

[tvbcof]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

I don't even know what to say anymore.

I say 'duh', but then I'm a 'conspiracy theorist.'   This is a natural evolution of mass covert surveillance and it is inconceivable that the system will not continue to degrade and be subverted even as it continues to expand.

Every Joe Sixpack that signs up for a cell phone is worth on average something like $3000 in revenue to corporate service providers.  Every Joe Sixpack who is thrown in prison is worth probably hundreds of thousands to corporate service providers.  Of course we see the development of a corp/gov feeder system to tap and expand this revenue stream.

[tvbcof]

I see your points but do not believe they are inconsistent or contradict what I noted.   There has of course never been any organized group dedicated to meeting out death to providers of abortion clinics.  A comparison cannot be made between isolated cases of abortion clinic bombings, and radical Muslim bombings.

First, the current American propaganda is quite diffuse and confused.  It does not and has never indicated the Qutb spinoffs as problematic as I have done.   Even strict Wahhibi Muslims will agree with what I have said, because the Qutb teaches violence and death to Westerners.  They are your enemies by their own proclamation, whatever your opinion may be.

If some sect believes not in Islam but in Islam plus a group of 30 extensions which preach killing, this should be acknowledged for what it is.  

Clearly this is not the same subject as rationale private or public for Iraq 1/Iraq 2 etc.

My comments were and are directed more at the issue of "why did Muslim bombings/hijacking/killing of Westerners begin 30-40 years ago and why has it continued to the present day virtually unchanged."  At the same time, the risk of you or I being the victim of such terrorism is ridiculously small.

The purpose of terrorist actions is not to target you or I, but to target the world wide media system for maximum exposure by way of random brutality.

There really is no organized network of terrorism with religious group at the apex for the simple reason that 'terrorism' in the form of civilian murder is not very appealing to Muslims, Christians, or any other group of normal people.  There may be some lone wolf types and small splinter groups, but they are very rare.  This is most unfortunate for the leadership of the United States who are well served by 'terror' within our own civilian populations, and I believe that this is the basis for trying to cultivate more of them through fairly gratuitous assaults against Muslim populations world-wide.

There are plenty of 'Islamist', but they are strongly focused on their own domestic struggles and could not give two shits about the West.  I can understand this.  I pity any populations which comes under control of religious fundamentalism, and I would certainly hate to see Jerry Falwell issuing fatwas in my neighborhood, but it's simply not worth very much to me personally to fight against Sharia law in the Swat valley in Pakistan.  That is for the Pakistani people to deal with.  It is double-plus-not-worth-it to me to shred the constitution and have my country committing blatant war crimes for this goal or to control the energy transport routes are any other such project.