BitcoinOrama Report on the KnCminer/OrSoC Open-day Mon 10/06/13 (Stockholm)

[Bitcoinorama]

Ok, have an email from Marcus, correcting a few bits I made mistakes on. The mistakes were due to lousy audio in parts, as especially where the acronyms are concerned I kept replaying the audio at those parts and still got it wrong.

I'm going to to go back and fix the doc, but for those that have read it already, Marus sent me this at 7am;

======================================================


Marcus: No, no. 48 divided by 306. Calculator. That's 5, 5.1.

48 multiplied with 106GHashMH/s (original design) is 5.1, we wanted to show that we can run faster.

=======================================================

Still not GH/s for the FPGAs, only MH/s.

48 x 106 MH/s ≃ 5.1 GH/s

My bad then, sorry...

Fixed.

[Rampion]

If used Cyclone IV to Mars they told me. By saving costs.
Why Stratix now want to pass? I just hope that the order of the chips this and paid as of today.
Minimum is 12 weeks, this is second to third week in August

+1

They indeed said they would use Cyclone IV because it's more cost effective

Are they using Stratix now? Why?

Agreed on the chips lead time. The order should have been placed already.

[Bitcoinorama]

Cheers for the 0.1BTC whoever that was just now!

[KS]

If used Cyclone IV to Mars they told me. By saving costs.
Why Stratix now want to pass? I just hope that the order of the chips this and paid as of today.
Minimum is 12 weeks, this is second to third week in August

+1

They indeed said they would use Cyclone IV because it's more cost effective

Are they using Stratix now? Why?

Agreed on the chips lead time. The order should have been placed already.

Stratix lets them in on the HardCopy process. They could have chosen to go structured ASIC instead of standard cell, then standard cell. Either way they give the same code to Altera.
You can pretty much run the same code on a Stratix and Cyclone (slower).

[Bitcoinorama]

If used Cyclone IV to Mars they told me. By saving costs.
Why Stratix now want to pass? I just hope that the order of the chips this and paid as of today.
Minimum is 12 weeks, this is second to third week in August

+1

They indeed said they would use Cyclone IV because it's more cost effective

Are they using Stratix now? Why?

Agreed on the chips lead time. The order should have been placed already.

Stratix lets them in on the HardCopy process. They could have chosen to go structured ASIC instead of standard cell, then standard cell. Either way they give the same code to Altera.
You can pretty much run the same code on a Stratix and Cyclone (slower).

As they were going to sell Mars at such low cost to the consumer for the hardware there would have been an agreement in place for the chips to only be used for the one intended purpose. Altera would sell them at low cost per chip. The manufacturer (KnC in this case) would not be able to harvest the chips after to buy back, reuse, resell. Though nothing stopping the consumer from trying to remove the chips and resell on eBay, etc.

I presume the cyclone was just a better deal than the statix for a potential bulk buy, or maybe they had some FPGAs to build a proton with already that weren't e ones they would use in consumer units when tey put a big FPGA chip order in...bearing in mind they would always be in stock.

[Bitcoinorama]

Cheers buddy! ^^

NOTE: I'm just repeating the tail end of that big post above, as scrolling past fast may mean you miss the Mars video link:

Mars Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgNPIY9L8s4&feature=youtu.be

Enjoy!

(Note: This has been freakin' exhausting!!)

what was that?!?!?!? heh, i noticed that on the right hand side of the screen just above the temperature monitor it said "Organofcorti". what was that about?

Bam!: http://organofcorti.blogspot.be

Marcus said he keeps abreast of mining pool info...

[KS]

If used Cyclone IV to Mars they told me. By saving costs.
Why Stratix now want to pass? I just hope that the order of the chips this and paid as of today.
Minimum is 12 weeks, this is second to third week in August

+1

They indeed said they would use Cyclone IV because it's more cost effective

Are they using Stratix now? Why?

Agreed on the chips lead time. The order should have been placed already.

Stratix lets them in on the HardCopy process. They could have chosen to go structured ASIC instead of standard cell, then standard cell. Either way they give the same code to Altera.
You can pretty much run the same code on a Stratix and Cyclone (slower).

As they were going to sell Mars at such low cost to the consumer for the hardware there would have been an agreement in place for the chips to only be used for the one intended purpose. Altera would sell them at low cost per chip. The manufacturer (KnC in this case) would not be able to harvest the chips after to buy back, reuse, resell. Though nothing stopping the consumer from trying to remove the chips and resell on eBay, etc.

I presume the cyclone was just a better deal than the statix for a potential bulk buy, or maybe they had some FPGAs to build a proton with already that weren't e ones they would use in consumer units when tey put a big FPGA chip order in...bearing in mind they would always be in stock.

Stratix is not about the Mars, it's about the ASIC.

http://www.altera.com/products/software/flows/asic/qts-structured_asic.html

As I said though, the code produced by the Quartus II software can be run on another FPGA as well, with little to no modification. The Cyclone being much cheaper than the Stratix, it makes sense not to use the Stratix for a miner with less margin and no future.

[KS]

Cheers buddy! ^^

NOTE: I'm just repeating the tail end of that big post above, as scrolling past fast may mean you miss the Mars video link:

Mars Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgNPIY9L8s4&feature=youtu.be

Enjoy!

(Note: This has been freakin' exhausting!!)

what was that?!?!?!? heh, i noticed that on the right hand side of the screen just above the temperature monitor it said "Organofcorti". what was that about?

Bam!: http://organofcorti.blogspot.be

Marcus said he keeps abreast of mining pool info...

I'll PM him to let him know he's been found

[titomane]

If used Cyclone IV to Mars they told me. By saving costs.
Why Stratix now want to pass? I just hope that the order of the chips this and paid as of today.
Minimum is 12 weeks, this is second to third week in August

+1

They indeed said they would use Cyclone IV because it's more cost effective

Are they using Stratix now? Why?

Agreed on the chips lead time. The order should have been placed already.

Stratix lets them in on the HardCopy process. They could have chosen to go structured ASIC instead of standard cell, then standard cell. Either way they give the same code to Altera.
You can pretty much run the same code on a Stratix and Cyclone (slower).

As they were going to sell Mars at such low cost to the consumer for the hardware there would have been an agreement in place for the chips to only be used for the one intended purpose. Altera would sell them at low cost per chip. The manufacturer (KnC in this case) would not be able to harvest the chips after to buy back, reuse, resell. Though nothing stopping the consumer from trying to remove the chips and resell on eBay, etc.

I presume the cyclone was just a better deal than the statix for a potential bulk buy, or maybe they had some FPGAs to build a proton with already that weren't e ones they would use in consumer units when tey put a big FPGA chip order in...bearing in mind they would always be in stock.

Stratix is not about the Mars, it's about the ASIC.

http://www.altera.com/products/software/flows/asic/qts-structured_asic.html

As I said though, the code produced by the Quartus II software can be run on another FPGA as well, with little to no modification. The Cyclone being much cheaper than the Stratix, it makes sense not to use the Stratix for a miner with less margin and no future.

It seems correct explanation,  when I went to ORsoc. I ask Marcus and Sam (besides many other questions of course):
Why not use Stratix? And be able to use Hardcopy V?
They replied by costs.
If you believe that using hardcopy, Asic delivery will be sooner. Not for me to say they are wrong.
But that day should have thought that chip to use.

[KS]

If used Cyclone IV to Mars they told me. By saving costs.
Why Stratix now want to pass? I just hope that the order of the chips this and paid as of today.
Minimum is 12 weeks, this is second to third week in August

+1

They indeed said they would use Cyclone IV because it's more cost effective

Are they using Stratix now? Why?

Agreed on the chips lead time. The order should have been placed already.

Stratix lets them in on the HardCopy process. They could have chosen to go structured ASIC instead of standard cell, then standard cell. Either way they give the same code to Altera.
You can pretty much run the same code on a Stratix and Cyclone (slower).

As they were going to sell Mars at such low cost to the consumer for the hardware there would have been an agreement in place for the chips to only be used for the one intended purpose. Altera would sell them at low cost per chip. The manufacturer (KnC in this case) would not be able to harvest the chips after to buy back, reuse, resell. Though nothing stopping the consumer from trying to remove the chips and resell on eBay, etc.

I presume the cyclone was just a better deal than the statix for a potential bulk buy, or maybe they had some FPGAs to build a proton with already that weren't e ones they would use in consumer units when tey put a big FPGA chip order in...bearing in mind they would always be in stock.

Stratix is not about the Mars, it's about the ASIC.

http://www.altera.com/products/software/flows/asic/qts-structured_asic.html

As I said though, the code produced by the Quartus II software can be run on another FPGA as well, with little to no modification. The Cyclone being much cheaper than the Stratix, it makes sense not to use the Stratix for a miner with less margin and no future.

It seems correct explanation,  when I went to ORsoc. I ask Marcus and Sam (besides many other questions of course):
Why not use Stratix? And be able to use Hardcopy V?
They replied by costs.
If you believe that using hardcopy, Asic delivery will be sooner. Not for me to say they are wrong.
But that day should have thought that chip to use.

It's two different things.

Using the Altera design flow, they can choose to produce a HardCopy (structured ASIC or FPGA "ROM" if you like) which takes less time to fab than a standard cell ASIC.

But they can ALSO chose to make a standard cell ASIC, from the SAME code (takes longer than structured ASIC/HardCopy).

And better yet, that code ALSO runs on other Altera FPGAs.

So, with that process, they could have shipped an FPGA "today", a HardCopy in a few weeks and the full ASIC a bit later still. They chose to skip steps 1 and 2, that's why you won't have anything to mine with until the ASICs are out.

[Rampion]

It's two different things.

Using the Altera design flow, they can choose to produce a HardCopy (structured ASIC or FPGA "ROM" if you like) which takes less time to fab than a standard cell ASIC.

But they can ALSO chose to make a standard cell ASIC, from the SAME code (takes longer than structured ASIC/HardCopy).

And better yet, that code ALSO runs on other Altera FPGAs.

So, with that process, they could have shipped an FPGA "today", a HardCopy in a few weeks and the full ASIC a bit later still. They chose to skip steps 1 and 2, that's why you won't have anything to mine with until the ASICs are out.

Curiosity: what's your final position on KnC? Did you finally pre-ordered?

[titomane]

It's two different things.

Using the Altera design flow, they can choose to produce a HardCopy (structured ASIC or FPGA "ROM" if you like) which takes less time to fab than a standard cell ASIC.

But they can ALSO chose to make a standard cell ASIC, from the SAME code (takes longer than structured ASIC/HardCopy).

And better yet, that code ALSO runs on other Altera FPGAs.

So, with that process, they could have shipped an FPGA "today", a HardCopy in a few weeks and the full ASIC a bit later still. They chose to skip steps 1 and 2, that's why you won't have anything to mine with until the ASICs are out.

Curiosity: what's your final position on KnC? Did you finally pre-ordered?

It seems he has some Jupiter preorder.
Who would have said 2-3 weeks ago. jajajaa

[merv77]

new news https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-21 sponsoring 'Life on Bitcoin' doco
very nice of KnC

[titomane]

new news https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-21 sponsoring 'Life on Bitcoin' doco
very nice of KnC

This guarantees delivery of Jupiter between July 2013 and summer 2014. jajaja

[KS]

It's two different things.

Using the Altera design flow, they can choose to produce a HardCopy (structured ASIC or FPGA "ROM" if you like) which takes less time to fab than a standard cell ASIC.

But they can ALSO chose to make a standard cell ASIC, from the SAME code (takes longer than structured ASIC/HardCopy).

And better yet, that code ALSO runs on other Altera FPGAs.

So, with that process, they could have shipped an FPGA "today", a HardCopy in a few weeks and the full ASIC a bit later still. They chose to skip steps 1 and 2, that's why you won't have anything to mine with until the ASICs are out.

Curiosity: what's your final position on KnC? Did you finally pre-ordered?

It seems he has some Jupiter preorder.
Who would have said 2-3 weeks ago. jajajaa

I do? 

[Bitcoinorama]

It's two different things.

Using the Altera design flow, they can choose to produce a HardCopy (structured ASIC or FPGA "ROM" if you like) which takes less time to fab than a standard cell ASIC.

But they can ALSO chose to make a standard cell ASIC, from the SAME code (takes longer than structured ASIC/HardCopy).

And better yet, that code ALSO runs on other Altera FPGAs.

So, with that process, they could have shipped an FPGA "today", a HardCopy in a few weeks and the full ASIC a bit later still. They chose to skip steps 1 and 2, that's why you won't have anything to mine with until the ASICs are out.

Curiosity: what's your final position on KnC? Did you finally pre-ordered?

It seems he has some Jupiter preorder.
Who would have said 2-3 weeks ago. jajajaa

I do?  

KS certainly has a large interest in bulk Avalon and had spoken about almost dropping $30k on BFL Mini-rig.

So if he has $30k tied up in DIY monies I can understand him being anxious for long-term, but he should be fine short-term as long as he has bought from trustable vendors and not used debt to purchase.

There's risk on any player, you just try to make educated choices based on informed opinion am take a choice that fits your comfort level. None of which can prepare you for future BTC price when miners drop coins to cover ROI's at the same time!

There is no malice what I've just written, I want to see no one lose money, actually the total opposite. Party's getting crowded, but most of the world are clueless to it...I'm just enjoying the engineering race!!

[KS]

It's two different things.

Using the Altera design flow, they can choose to produce a HardCopy (structured ASIC or FPGA "ROM" if you like) which takes less time to fab than a standard cell ASIC.

But they can ALSO chose to make a standard cell ASIC, from the SAME code (takes longer than structured ASIC/HardCopy).

And better yet, that code ALSO runs on other Altera FPGAs.

So, with that process, they could have shipped an FPGA "today", a HardCopy in a few weeks and the full ASIC a bit later still. They chose to skip steps 1 and 2, that's why you won't have anything to mine with until the ASICs are out.

Curiosity: what's your final position on KnC? Did you finally pre-ordered?

My position is they are full of it. Everyone is so focused on the tech/money side they completely ignore the crap that comes out of that company. Amazing.

I give your the equity=gov tax or first ever TierV datacenter as small tidbits. Oh and the 30% improvement on the mining algo.

[KS]

It's two different things.

Using the Altera design flow, they can choose to produce a HardCopy (structured ASIC or FPGA "ROM" if you like) which takes less time to fab than a standard cell ASIC.

But they can ALSO chose to make a standard cell ASIC, from the SAME code (takes longer than structured ASIC/HardCopy).

And better yet, that code ALSO runs on other Altera FPGAs.

So, with that process, they could have shipped an FPGA "today", a HardCopy in a few weeks and the full ASIC a bit later still. They chose to skip steps 1 and 2, that's why you won't have anything to mine with until the ASICs are out.

Curiosity: what's your final position on KnC? Did you finally pre-ordered?

It seems he has some Jupiter preorder.
Who would have said 2-3 weeks ago. jajajaa

I do?  

KS certainly has a large interest in bulk Avalon and had spoken about almost dropping $30k on BFL Mini-rig.

So if he has $30k tied up in DIY monies I can understand him being anxious for long-term, but he should be fine short-term as long as he has bought from trustable vendors and not used debt to purchase.

There is no malice what I've just written, I want to see no one lose money, actually the total opposite. Parties getting crowded, but most of the world are clueless to it...

Right...

If KNCMINER wasn't making stupid comments like I just quoted Rampion, I would have considered them. Alas, they're just professional wannabes. I'm still on the fence regarding ORSoC (not the tech part), and I highly dislike the use of shills for self promotion. Have never seen so many, even on any other scammer thread, save for KNCMINER. That's another minus for them.

[bobsmoke]

More news : https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-21

[Bitcoinorama]

It's two different things.

Using the Altera design flow, they can choose to produce a HardCopy (structured ASIC or FPGA "ROM" if you like) which takes less time to fab than a standard cell ASIC.

But they can ALSO chose to make a standard cell ASIC, from the SAME code (takes longer than structured ASIC/HardCopy).

And better yet, that code ALSO runs on other Altera FPGAs.

So, with that process, they could have shipped an FPGA "today", a HardCopy in a few weeks and the full ASIC a bit later still. They chose to skip steps 1 and 2, that's why you won't have anything to mine with until the ASICs are out.

Curiosity: what's your final position on KnC? Did you finally pre-ordered?

It seems he has some Jupiter preorder.
Who would have said 2-3 weeks ago. jajajaa

I do?  

KS certainly has a large interest in bulk Avalon and had spoken about almost dropping $30k on BFL Mini-rig.

So if he has $30k tied up in DIY monies I can understand him being anxious for long-term, but he should be fine short-term as long as he has bought from trustable vendors and not used debt to purchase.

There is no malice what I've just written, I want to see no one lose money, actually the total opposite. Parties getting crowded, but most of the world are clueless to it...

Right...

If KNCMINER wasn't making stupid comments like I just quoted Rampion, I would have considered them. Alas, they're just professional wannabes. I'm still on the fence regarding ORSoC (not the tech part), and I highly dislike the use of shills for self promotion. Have never seen so many, even on any other scammer thread, save for KNCMINER. That's another minus for them.

Please do continue, I presume you are suggesting I'm a shill? Just call me on it please, if that's the case.

I mean aside the fact I went in person and several other members can vouch for me...

I offered to ask any question you wanted, was pretty thorough with my analysis and the door is always open for yourself to go in person. I recommend anyone does if you're considering potentially risking more moeny than a flight...there's worse places to fruitlessly check out than Stockholm otherwise.