BitcoinOrama Report on the KnCminer/OrSoC Open-day Mon 10/06/13 (Stockholm)

[Bitcoinorama]

You should start putting those factlets in your sig. "want to work for KNCMINER, expecting to receive a free Jupiter".

No matter the criticism I can throw your way, I still appreciate the reports. I wish your prose were less biased though, they're still selling vaporware after all.

This is my point; I'm not expecting anything. Why are people putting words in my mouth just to satisfy their own point of view? If I end up working for them, or any crypto-engineering hardware company I would clearly state my allegiance, a sig would prob be a sensible place, but whilst I had my expectations before visiting, based on research conducted along the way which made me optimistic, I certainly wasn't about to loose my head. I'd like to think I still remained unbiased and balanced in the way I conducted the questioning.  Certainly didn't accept answers without delving deeper, and I pressed on matters I felt were useful to all those keen on investing.

With respect to parting with money, including my own, my feet are and were firmly on the ground. We're talking of a lot of money, despite this being an exciting engineering race, I've not coerced anyone to do anything with their savings. Everywhere possible I have stated people do their own research and make their own mind up. Are they are real engineering firm? Yes, I was able to prove that, but understand the risks involved why they may/may not deliver on time, understand the risks involved in Botcoin pricing on September and beyond. Ignore the calculator predictions that are wildly thrown about, and make sure your credit card company has additional liability. Throughout this I pressed quite aggressively they (KnC) accept card payment, because it always was about being my own financial investment as well, it only became more of that, as in a potential investment of time, when I realised the ability of the companies involved and the potential outcome for those parties as well. I value my time more than money. Way more.

[Bitcoinorama]

The sponsoring of the film was something I suggested to them last week as it broke press in the States. I saw it as a wise and low cost/ big impact marketing move as one of Sam's concerns about risk was the need to push Bitcoin for mainstream adoption. The film idea ticked all those boxes and I forwarded the Kickstarter page. Fri or Sat I think. Sam said he liked the idea, but I'm as surprised as anyone else that they've actually gone for it. It's a shrewd move if you want legitimacy.

Great idea, I feel you have done the entire bitcoin community a great service with this suggestion (assuming KnC pulls through and delivers on time).

You sir have earned a couple of beers on me.  Hopefully you find a Swedish hottie to drink them with.
https://blockchain.info/tx/d91071418b26db238e55a237b8337e93434868b22e057b06be19367840fc268a

edit.. link fixed

Thanks buddy, there's a lot of 'ifs', but should everything align, it will clearly be a fun project.

I've had a bit of screen time before, and a variety of jobs that have involved working in front of and with members of the public in a variety of ways, and the ability to gain and keep attention is based on character.  Plainly, in this case, could you sit through 90 minutes of these two and their wild honeymoon? Do they stand any chance in convincing strangers to accept Bitcoin? Will they make light of the complications on the way in a serious manner? They ticked all those boxes in their 3 min trailer, they are comfortable with the camera and appear confident they intend to see this through. The fact they personify mr and mrs (to be), joe public is ideal for legitimising mainstream mining.

Note: I cannot take credit for the idea of handing them a miner to use within the project itself. As much as that is a logical step, all I did was forward the Kickstarter page and said it's a cute story with a very determined and entertaining couple, I'd be all over this if I was you...

[ilpirata79]

I would like to know if the KNCminer guys have put some kind of limitation to the number of units that can be ordered.
This could be taken as a sign of reliability from them. Avalon for instance has done something like that by accepting orders in batches.
If not, that means in my opinion that they are only willing to make money, without guaranteeing to customers anything especially in terms of delivery time.

Regards,
ilpirata79

[Rampion]

Sorry guys, back to reality - most important question now is: have they already ordered the chips? Do we have an ETA confirmed by the fab?

As titomane said a few posts ago, those fabs do not hurry up for any customer - lead time for the chips will be anything from 8 to 12 weeks, and we need to assume 12 weeks to be on the safe side. I know how that huge businesses work - if they need to delay your order, they do, and you just can't do anything about it. This happened to Avalon too, just check what he said on his conference talk.

If KnC did not place the order for the chips yet, that's something to be worried about.

Please Bitcoinorama use your direct access to them to ask:

- are the chips ordered?
- if yes, what is the ETA confirmed by the fab?
- if not, why? didn't they reach the funding goal they needed for the order? How far away are them to place the order?

[titomane]

I would like to know if the KNCminer guys have put some kind of limitation to the number of units that can be ordered.
This could be taken as a sign of reliability from them. Avalon for instance has done something like that by accepting orders in batches.
If not, that means in my opinion that they are only willing to make money, without guaranteeing to customers anything especially in terms of delivery time.

Regards,
ilpirata79

Avalon has done lots from 10,000 to 200,000 chips. If selling 2.8Ths to 56Ths are small batches.
2.8 Ths are    8 Jupiter
56  Ths are 160 Jupiter  
If you put 10000 lots here: http://store.avalon-asics.com/?page_id=386   They sell it.                                            (So you can buy 26924 lots that are more than 21 millions BTC) joke coments
If you put 10000 jup here https://www.kncminer.com/shoppingcart.aspx send error only have 1xxx

Who of us wants only to make money? Honestly I think both.
But you say you do not do it for money (Avalon) and accepts web orders otherwise chips 10000000.
The other says he wants to make money and stay in business for long. But the website does not let buy over 2000 Jupiters

[Bitcoinorama]

Sorry guys, back to reality - most important question now is: have they already ordered the chips? Do we have an ETA confirmed by the fab?

As titomane said a few posts ago, those fabs do not hurry up for any customer - lead time for the chips will be anything from 8 to 12 weeks, and we need to assume 12 weeks to be on the safe side. I know how that huge businesses work - if they need to delay your order, they do, and you just can't do anything about it. This happened to Avalon too, just check what he said on his conference talk.

If KnC did not place the order for the chips yet, that's something to be worried about.

Please Bitcoinorama use your direct access to them to ask:

- are the chips ordered?
- if yes, what is the ETA confirmed by the fab?
- if not, why? didn't they reach the funding goal they needed for the order? How far away are them to place the order?

I fired an email yesterday with a variety of Q's I scraped from here. There were quite a few tech related q's. Waiting to get a reply back over which are answerable without being too advantageous to the competition.  They want to be transparent, but not at the cost of giving away too much info to those they are competing against.

[dan99]

Sorry guys, back to reality - most important question now is: have they already ordered the chips? Do we have an ETA confirmed by the fab?

As titomane said a few posts ago, those fabs do not hurry up for any customer - lead time for the chips will be anything from 8 to 12 weeks, and we need to assume 12 weeks to be on the safe side. I know how that huge businesses work - if they need to delay your order, they do, and you just can't do anything about it. This happened to Avalon too, just check what he said on his conference talk.

If KnC did not place the order for the chips yet, that's something to be worried about.

Please Bitcoinorama use your direct access to them to ask:

- are the chips ordered?
- if yes, what is the ETA confirmed by the fab?
- if not, why? didn't they reach the funding goal they needed for the order? How far away are them to place the order?

I fired an email yesterday with a variety of Q's I scraped from here. There were quite a few tech related q's. Waiting to get a reply back over which are answerable without being too advantageous to the competition.  They want to be transparent, but not at the cost of giving away too much info to those they are competing against.

Couldn't agreed more

[barfor]

BitcoinOrama, just wanted to say thanks for the significant insight (and putting yourself in the line of fire of seemingly drunk rednecks) thus robbing me of needed sleep... 

[bitpop]

They really need to give him that mars

[Bitcoinorama]

They really need to give him that mars

Mars in about to be fried in an all-out over-clocking assault!

[rizzman]

You should start putting those factlets in your sig. "want to work for KNCMINER, expecting to receive a free Jupiter".

No matter the criticism I can throw your way, I still appreciate the reports. I wish your prose were less biased though, they're still selling vaporware after all.

This is my point; I'm not expecting anything. Why are people putting words in my mouth just to satisfy their own point of view? If I end up working for them, or any crypto-engineering hardware company I would clearly state my allegiance, a sig would prob be a sensible place, but whilst I had my expectations before visiting, based on research conducted along the way which made me optimistic, I certainly wasn't about to loose my head. I'd like to think I still remained unbiased and balanced in the way I conducted the questioning.  Certainly didn't accept answers without delving deeper, and I pressed on matters I felt were useful to all those keen on investing.

With respect to parting with money, including my own, my feet are and were firmly on the ground. We're talking of a lot of money, despite this being an exciting engineering race, I've not coerced anyone to do anything with their savings. Everywhere possible I have stated people do their own research and make their own mind up. Are they are real engineering firm? Yes, I was able to prove that, but understand the risks involved why they may/may not deliver on time, understand the risks involved in Botcoin pricing on September and beyond. Ignore the calculator predictions that are wildly thrown about, and make sure your credit card company has additional liability. Throughout this I pressed quite aggressively they (KnC) accept card payment, because it always was about being my own financial investment as well, it only became more of that, as in a potential investment of time, when I realised the ability of the companies involved and the potential outcome for those parties as well. I value my time more than money. Way more.

Dude, you should not even respond to this kind of posts.

This is the exact kind of shit that was going on when Avalon started taking orders - People harping about how it is impossible to do, "its a scam", "Just a bunch of Chinese scammers". These were all phrases that were thrown around when Avalon was taking Batch 1 Orders, and I can't help but wonder how many of those asshats are now sitting on a pile of coin because they decided to risk a paltry $1300 bucks while discouraging others into not doing the same... I kick myself every day for letting people like this influence my decision like I did at that time, and I am sure they're are MANY more that also feel this way. Now "He's just saying this to get a free unit" can be added to this list.  

I hope this not the case, however, as it was stated earlier this is unfortunately a zero sum game, and it is quite literally an incentive for some people to keep others out of the mining game, however way possible. I hope this is not what is happening on the forum but my realist outlook says beware.

Honestly, in my opinion, you and everyone else who took the time to go grill these guys deserves a free unit - Without a doubt you guys have been the best advertising expense KNCMiner has never paid...The only reason why I risked ordering more than a saturn was because you guys were able to clear the air on alot of the questions on whether or not KNCMiner is legit (ie. Do they even exist?).

Bitcoinorama, please don't waste anymore of your time on these guys, you are already giving so much back to the community in the form of these transcripts I'd hate to see you get burnt out because of a bunch of Naysayers. If they don't feel like its a safe enough investment for their cash, that's ok let them talk, hopefully come September we'll be sitting on some solid equipment and reaping the benefit of our bets while they sit on the sidelines bidding on the scraps on ebay.

Fortune favors the bold

Bitcoinorama, Thank you again for taking the time to do this. Drive on

[fragout]

+1 ^
 ty Bitcoinorama for the information.
Lets not forget that he was not the only one that attended the open days and all seem to have the same impression of KNC.
Personally I dont mind any1 trying to uncover a possible scam and the more questions asked, the better.
There are after all scammer sellers that have already been unearthed by memebers on this forum such as http://www.gxmining.com/ (although that was an easy one)
photoshopping the BFL jap pic - seriously

[KS]

You should start putting those factlets in your sig. "want to work for KNCMINER, expecting to receive a free Jupiter".

No matter the criticism I can throw your way, I still appreciate the reports. I wish your prose were less biased though, they're still selling vaporware after all.

This is my point; I'm not expecting anything. Why are people putting words in my mouth just to satisfy their own point of view? If I end up working for them, or any crypto-engineering hardware company I would clearly state my allegiance, a sig would prob be a sensible place, but whilst I had my expectations before visiting, based on research conducted along the way which made me optimistic, I certainly wasn't about to loose my head. I'd like to think I still remained unbiased and balanced in the way I conducted the questioning.  Certainly didn't accept answers without delving deeper, and I pressed on matters I felt were useful to all those keen on investing.

With respect to parting with money, including my own, my feet are and were firmly on the ground. We're talking of a lot of money, despite this being an exciting engineering race, I've not coerced anyone to do anything with their savings. Everywhere possible I have stated people do their own research and make their own mind up. Are they are real engineering firm? Yes, I was able to prove that, but understand the risks involved why they may/may not deliver on time, understand the risks involved in Botcoin pricing on September and beyond. Ignore the calculator predictions that are wildly thrown about, and make sure your credit card company has additional liability. Throughout this I pressed quite aggressively they (KnC) accept card payment, because it always was about being my own financial investment as well, it only became more of that, as in a potential investment of time, when I realised the ability of the companies involved and the potential outcome for those parties as well. I value my time more than money. Way more.

Dude, you should not even respond to this kind of posts.

This is the exact kind of shit that was going on when Avalon started taking orders - People harping about how it is impossible to do, "its a scam", "Just a bunch of Chinese scammers". These were all phrases that were thrown around when Avalon was taking Batch 1 Orders, and I can't help but wonder how many of those asshats are now sitting on a pile of coin because they decided to risk a paltry $1300 bucks while discouraging others into not doing the same... I kick myself every day for letting people like this influence my decision like I did at that time, and I am sure they're are MANY more that also feel this way. Now "He's just saying this to get a free unit" can be added to this list.  

I hope this not the case, however, as it was stated earlier this is unfortunately a zero sum game, and it is quite literally an incentive for some people to keep others out of the mining game, however way possible. I hope this is not what is happening on the forum but my realist outlook says beware.

Honestly, in my opinion, you and everyone else who took the time to go grill these guys deserves a free unit - Without a doubt you guys have been the best advertising expense KNCMiner has never paid...The only reason why I risked ordering more than a saturn was because you guys were able to clear the air on alot of the questions on whether or not KNCMiner is legit (ie. Do they even exist?).

Bitcoinorama, please don't waste anymore of your time on these guys, you are already giving so much back to the community in the form of these transcripts I'd hate to see you get burnt out because of a bunch of Naysayers. If they don't feel like its a safe enough investment for their cash, that's ok let them talk, hopefully come September we'll be sitting on some solid equipment and reaping the benefit of our bets while they sit on the sidelines bidding on the scraps on ebay.

Fortune favors the bold

Bitcoinorama, Thank you again for taking the time to do this. Drive on

I'm being the devil's advocate for people drinking the KNCMINER Kool-Aid. Bitcoinorama is painting everything in pink, I'm painting it black, the truth is in the middle. I'm not about to stop calling their BS when I see it though.

[Coin_fan]

There are after all scammer sellers that have already been unearthed by memebers on this forum such as http://www.gxmining.com/ (although that was an easy one)
photoshopping the BFL jap pic - seriously

Plus this gxmining.com has Identity Protection Service, WOW :-) ---- HIDE is the best word.....

   
******************************************************************
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This domain is provided by 123-reg. We're the UK's largest
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Domain Name:      GXMINING.COM
Creation Date:      2013-03-30
Expiry Date:      2014-03-30
Nameserver:      ns51.redbackinternet.net
Nameserver:      ns52.redbackinternet.net
Registrant Name:   Identity Protection Service
Registrant Company:   Identity Protect Limited
Registrant Address:   PO Box 795
Registrant Address:   Godalming
Registrant Address:   Surrey
Registrant Address:   GU7 9GA
Registrant Address:   GB
Administrative Name:   Identity Protection Service
Administrative Company:   Identity Protect Limited
Administrative Address:   PO Box 795
Administrative Address:   Godalming
Administrative Address:   Surrey
Administrative Address:   GU7 9GA
Administrative Address:   GB
Administrative Email:   gxmining.com@identity-protect.org
Administrative Tel:   +44.1483307527
Administrative Fax:   +44.1483304031
Technical Name:      Identity Protection Service
Technical Company:   Identity Protect Limited
Technical Address:   PO Box 795
Technical Address:   Godalming
Technical Address:   Surrey
Technical Address:   GU7 9GA
Technical Address:   GB
Technical Email:   gxmining.com@identity-protect.org
Technical Tel:      +44.1483307527
Technical Fax:      +44.1483304031

[rizzman]

You should start putting those factlets in your sig. "want to work for KNCMINER, expecting to receive a free Jupiter".

No matter the criticism I can throw your way, I still appreciate the reports. I wish your prose were less biased though, they're still selling vaporware after all.

This is my point; I'm not expecting anything. Why are people putting words in my mouth just to satisfy their own point of view? If I end up working for them, or any crypto-engineering hardware company I would clearly state my allegiance, a sig would prob be a sensible place, but whilst I had my expectations before visiting, based on research conducted along the way which made me optimistic, I certainly wasn't about to loose my head. I'd like to think I still remained unbiased and balanced in the way I conducted the questioning.  Certainly didn't accept answers without delving deeper, and I pressed on matters I felt were useful to all those keen on investing.

With respect to parting with money, including my own, my feet are and were firmly on the ground. We're talking of a lot of money, despite this being an exciting engineering race, I've not coerced anyone to do anything with their savings. Everywhere possible I have stated people do their own research and make their own mind up. Are they are real engineering firm? Yes, I was able to prove that, but understand the risks involved why they may/may not deliver on time, understand the risks involved in Botcoin pricing on September and beyond. Ignore the calculator predictions that are wildly thrown about, and make sure your credit card company has additional liability. Throughout this I pressed quite aggressively they (KnC) accept card payment, because it always was about being my own financial investment as well, it only became more of that, as in a potential investment of time, when I realised the ability of the companies involved and the potential outcome for those parties as well. I value my time more than money. Way more.

Dude, you should not even respond to this kind of posts.

This is the exact kind of shit that was going on when Avalon started taking orders - People harping about how it is impossible to do, "its a scam", "Just a bunch of Chinese scammers". These were all phrases that were thrown around when Avalon was taking Batch 1 Orders, and I can't help but wonder how many of those asshats are now sitting on a pile of coin because they decided to risk a paltry $1300 bucks while discouraging others into not doing the same... I kick myself every day for letting people like this influence my decision like I did at that time, and I am sure they're are MANY more that also feel this way. Now "He's just saying this to get a free unit" can be added to this list.  

I hope this not the case, however, as it was stated earlier this is unfortunately a zero sum game, and it is quite literally an incentive for some people to keep others out of the mining game, however way possible. I hope this is not what is happening on the forum but my realist outlook says beware.

Honestly, in my opinion, you and everyone else who took the time to go grill these guys deserves a free unit - Without a doubt you guys have been the best advertising expense KNCMiner has never paid...The only reason why I risked ordering more than a saturn was because you guys were able to clear the air on alot of the questions on whether or not KNCMiner is legit (ie. Do they even exist?).

Bitcoinorama, please don't waste anymore of your time on these guys, you are already giving so much back to the community in the form of these transcripts I'd hate to see you get burnt out because of a bunch of Naysayers. If they don't feel like its a safe enough investment for their cash, that's ok let them talk, hopefully come September we'll be sitting on some solid equipment and reaping the benefit of our bets while they sit on the sidelines bidding on the scraps on ebay.

Fortune favors the bold

Bitcoinorama, Thank you again for taking the time to do this. Drive on

I'm being the devil's advocate for people drinking the KNCMINER Kool-Aid. Bitcoinorama is painting everything in pink, I'm painting it black, the truth is in the middle. I'm not about to stop calling their BS when I see it though.

Devil's Advocate is one thing, accusing those that are trying to help / show some optimism is another. I been following this post (and others) since Page 3, and its the same bullshit page after page, for every piece of evidence that is given to confirm legitimacy someone comes up with some other BS reason as to why its a scam.

Don't get me wrong, Questioning dubious claims, showing concern, and reminding people about the risk is one thing, but outright claiming that the guy is working for the company, and accusing him of feeding us sunshine and rainbows bullshit so he can get free equipment is another...

Seriously... The guy has absolutely no reason to share anything with any of us! The fact he is taking the time out to go through and ask questions for everyone else whose too busy/scared to buy/poor to take the trip over and meet these guys face to face says a lot if you ask me. He could have easily kept his mouth shut, bashed the company and bought for himself any number of units and wait for delivery to cash in...

And don't even try to use that argument that "Of course he has a reason to lie to us, because he has something to gain" because there have been multiple others credible members on here who have been saying the same thing Bitcoinorama has been saying since they visited the location, and it is HIGHLY unlikely that they are all colluding with KNCMiner.

Everyone know's the risks, there's no need to accuse those trying to help of foul play.

[Korbman]

I'm being the devil's advocate for people drinking the KNCMINER Kool-Aid. Bitcoinorama is painting everything in pink, I'm painting it black, the truth is in the middle. I'm not about to stop calling their BS when I see it though.

Devil's Advocate is one thing, accusing those that are trying to help / show some optimism is another. I been following this post (and others) since Page 3, and its the same bullshit page after page, for every piece of evidence that is given to confirm legitimacy someone comes up with some other BS reason as to why its a scam.

It's amazing how small some of the pages become once you put KS on ignore.

[KS]

You should start putting those factlets in your sig. "want to work for KNCMINER, expecting to receive a free Jupiter".

No matter the criticism I can throw your way, I still appreciate the reports. I wish your prose were less biased though, they're still selling vaporware after all.

This is my point; I'm not expecting anything. Why are people putting words in my mouth just to satisfy their own point of view? If I end up working for them, or any crypto-engineering hardware company I would clearly state my allegiance, a sig would prob be a sensible place, but whilst I had my expectations before visiting, based on research conducted along the way which made me optimistic, I certainly wasn't about to loose my head. I'd like to think I still remained unbiased and balanced in the way I conducted the questioning.  Certainly didn't accept answers without delving deeper, and I pressed on matters I felt were useful to all those keen on investing.

With respect to parting with money, including my own, my feet are and were firmly on the ground. We're talking of a lot of money, despite this being an exciting engineering race, I've not coerced anyone to do anything with their savings. Everywhere possible I have stated people do their own research and make their own mind up. Are they are real engineering firm? Yes, I was able to prove that, but understand the risks involved why they may/may not deliver on time, understand the risks involved in Botcoin pricing on September and beyond. Ignore the calculator predictions that are wildly thrown about, and make sure your credit card company has additional liability. Throughout this I pressed quite aggressively they (KnC) accept card payment, because it always was about being my own financial investment as well, it only became more of that, as in a potential investment of time, when I realised the ability of the companies involved and the potential outcome for those parties as well. I value my time more than money. Way more.

Dude, you should not even respond to this kind of posts.

This is the exact kind of shit that was going on when Avalon started taking orders - People harping about how it is impossible to do, "its a scam", "Just a bunch of Chinese scammers". These were all phrases that were thrown around when Avalon was taking Batch 1 Orders, and I can't help but wonder how many of those asshats are now sitting on a pile of coin because they decided to risk a paltry $1300 bucks while discouraging others into not doing the same... I kick myself every day for letting people like this influence my decision like I did at that time, and I am sure they're are MANY more that also feel this way. Now "He's just saying this to get a free unit" can be added to this list.  

I hope this not the case, however, as it was stated earlier this is unfortunately a zero sum game, and it is quite literally an incentive for some people to keep others out of the mining game, however way possible. I hope this is not what is happening on the forum but my realist outlook says beware.

Honestly, in my opinion, you and everyone else who took the time to go grill these guys deserves a free unit - Without a doubt you guys have been the best advertising expense KNCMiner has never paid...The only reason why I risked ordering more than a saturn was because you guys were able to clear the air on alot of the questions on whether or not KNCMiner is legit (ie. Do they even exist?).

Bitcoinorama, please don't waste anymore of your time on these guys, you are already giving so much back to the community in the form of these transcripts I'd hate to see you get burnt out because of a bunch of Naysayers. If they don't feel like its a safe enough investment for their cash, that's ok let them talk, hopefully come September we'll be sitting on some solid equipment and reaping the benefit of our bets while they sit on the sidelines bidding on the scraps on ebay.

Fortune favors the bold

Bitcoinorama, Thank you again for taking the time to do this. Drive on

I'm being the devil's advocate for people drinking the KNCMINER Kool-Aid. Bitcoinorama is painting everything in pink, I'm painting it black, the truth is in the middle. I'm not about to stop calling their BS when I see it though.

Devil's Advocate is one thing, accusing those that are trying to help / show some optimism is another. I been following this post (and others) since Page 3, and its the same bullshit page after page, for every piece of evidence that is given to confirm legitimacy someone comes up with some other BS reason as to why its a scam.

Don't get me wrong, Questioning dubious claims, showing concern, and reminding people about the risk is one thing, but outright claiming that the guy is working for the company, and accusing him of feeding us sunshine and rainbows bullshit so he can get free equipment is another...

Seriously... The guy has absolutely no reason to share anything with any of us! The fact he is taking the time out to go through and ask questions for everyone else whose too busy/scared to buy/poor to take the trip over and meet these guys face to face says a lot if you ask me. He could have easily kept his mouth shut, bashed the company and bought for himself any number of units and wait for delivery to cash in...

And don't even try to use that argument that "Of course he has a reason to lie to us, because he has something to gain" because there have been multiple others credible members on here who have been saying the same thing Bitcoinorama has been saying since they visited the location, and it is HIGHLY unlikely that they are all colluding with KNCMiner.

Everyone know's the risks, there's no need to accuse those trying to help of foul play.

Sorry but I don't think you have completely followed my discussion with Bitcoinorama, which I can understand as it's spread over several threads.

There are several things I don't like in his dealings with KNCMINER:

1/ lack of criticism (he's been attacking very much everyone else, why the dichotomy?)
2/ self-interest (he did take his CV)
3/ no paid for order (while actively attacking everyone not line with his view on KNCMINER) - still undenied

Regarding the company itself, I don't mind people defending KNCMINER, the tech side seems OK, but I find it depressing that no one is actually doing their due diligence on the company (equity, etc). Going to the open day is really not enough, it just shows the tech side, and they have been continuously evading budgetary questions. And the shills! Way too many for a "legit"/well-meaning business.

So yes, maybe they have a running miner, but they haven't showed to be trustworthy businessmen. Quite the contrary. Maybe you don't have experience with these kind of characters, but everything I see points me to a category of ppl I deal with on a regular basis and it says "treat with extreme caution". "Quick buck" is what I see. Your mileage may vary.

[Bitcoinorama]

You should start putting those factlets in your sig. "want to work for KNCMINER, expecting to receive a free Jupiter".

No matter the criticism I can throw your way, I still appreciate the reports. I wish your prose were less biased though, they're still selling vaporware after all.

This is my point; I'm not expecting anything. Why are people putting words in my mouth just to satisfy their own point of view? If I end up working for them, or any crypto-engineering hardware company I would clearly state my allegiance, a sig would prob be a sensible place, but whilst I had my expectations before visiting, based on research conducted along the way which made me optimistic, I certainly wasn't about to loose my head. I'd like to think I still remained unbiased and balanced in the way I conducted the questioning.  Certainly didn't accept answers without delving deeper, and I pressed on matters I felt were useful to all those keen on investing.

With respect to parting with money, including my own, my feet are and were firmly on the ground. We're talking of a lot of money, despite this being an exciting engineering race, I've not coerced anyone to do anything with their savings. Everywhere possible I have stated people do their own research and make their own mind up. Are they are real engineering firm? Yes, I was able to prove that, but understand the risks involved why they may/may not deliver on time, understand the risks involved in Botcoin pricing on September and beyond. Ignore the calculator predictions that are wildly thrown about, and make sure your credit card company has additional liability. Throughout this I pressed quite aggressively they (KnC) accept card payment, because it always was about being my own financial investment as well, it only became more of that, as in a potential investment of time, when I realised the ability of the companies involved and the potential outcome for those parties as well. I value my time more than money. Way more.

Dude, you should not even respond to this kind of posts.

This is the exact kind of shit that was going on when Avalon started taking orders - People harping about how it is impossible to do, "its a scam", "Just a bunch of Chinese scammers". These were all phrases that were thrown around when Avalon was taking Batch 1 Orders, and I can't help but wonder how many of those asshats are now sitting on a pile of coin because they decided to risk a paltry $1300 bucks while discouraging others into not doing the same... I kick myself every day for letting people like this influence my decision like I did at that time, and I am sure they're are MANY more that also feel this way. Now "He's just saying this to get a free unit" can be added to this list.  

I hope this not the case, however, as it was stated earlier this is unfortunately a zero sum game, and it is quite literally an incentive for some people to keep others out of the mining game, however way possible. I hope this is not what is happening on the forum but my realist outlook says beware.

Honestly, in my opinion, you and everyone else who took the time to go grill these guys deserves a free unit - Without a doubt you guys have been the best advertising expense KNCMiner has never paid...The only reason why I risked ordering more than a saturn was because you guys were able to clear the air on alot of the questions on whether or not KNCMiner is legit (ie. Do they even exist?).

Bitcoinorama, please don't waste anymore of your time on these guys, you are already giving so much back to the community in the form of these transcripts I'd hate to see you get burnt out because of a bunch of Naysayers. If they don't feel like its a safe enough investment for their cash, that's ok let them talk, hopefully come September we'll be sitting on some solid equipment and reaping the benefit of our bets while they sit on the sidelines bidding on the scraps on ebay.

Fortune favors the bold

Bitcoinorama, Thank you again for taking the time to do this. Drive on

I'm being the devil's advocate for people drinking the KNCMINER Kool-Aid. Bitcoinorama is painting everything in pink, I'm painting it black, the truth is in the middle. I'm not about to stop calling their BS when I see it though.

Devil's Advocate is one thing, accusing those that are trying to help / show some optimism is another. I been following this post (and others) since Page 3, and its the same bullshit page after page, for every piece of evidence that is given to confirm legitimacy someone comes up with some other BS reason as to why its a scam.

Don't get me wrong, Questioning dubious claims, showing concern, and reminding people about the risk is one thing, but outright claiming that the guy is working for the company, and accusing him of feeding us sunshine and rainbows bullshit so he can get free equipment is another...

Seriously... The guy has absolutely no reason to share anything with any of us! The fact he is taking the time out to go through and ask questions for everyone else whose too busy/scared to buy/poor to take the trip over and meet these guys face to face says a lot if you ask me. He could have easily kept his mouth shut, bashed the company and bought for himself any number of units and wait for delivery to cash in...

And don't even try to use that argument that "Of course he has a reason to lie to us, because he has something to gain" because there have been multiple others credible members on here who have been saying the same thing Bitcoinorama has been saying since they visited the location, and it is HIGHLY unlikely that they are all colluding with KNCMiner.

Everyone know's the risks, there's no need to accuse those trying to help of foul play.

Well that, and the fact it's a short trip over for himself to Stockholm, seeing as he is UK based as well as me.

There is nothing stopping him, KnC are more than welcoming with a heads up.

Would be cheaper too for him to go as well, as I confirmed attendance for the Open-day a couple to days before, a bit too last minute outbound flight-wise.

The return was only £40, train shuttles straight from airport to Sockholm T-Centralen and it's a 10 minute walk or a short cab ride after to ORSoC, they are very centrally located, a few blocks from the main square.

Also, there were no shills. The miner was working on Daggeteo's personal account, he is not a shill. Neither is his brother, or the other chaps there. The rest were a group of experienced guys with a competitive edge an a strong work ethic rushed off their feet (admittedly of their own devise) with no time for this bull$h*t.

There does apparently appear to be a few people intent on discrediting this project consistently no matter what lengths are taken. Fact is irrespective of me heading there peeps invested. So me going serves no purpose other than reassurance, and all the bitching is just noise, as NRE has been funded so it's just a case of keeping on top of developments and see how this progresses. I'm just a loooot more relaxed for going, but if anyone continues to have nagging concerns, I wholeheartedly recommend you take a brief flight and quit whinging!

[DPoS]

I'm being the devil's advocate for people drinking the KNCMINER Kool-Aid. Bitcoinorama is painting everything in pink, I'm painting it black, the truth is in the middle. I'm not about to stop calling their BS when I see it though.

Devil's Advocate is one thing, accusing those that are trying to help / show some optimism is another. I been following this post (and others) since Page 3, and its the same bullshit page after page, for every piece of evidence that is given to confirm legitimacy someone comes up with some other BS reason as to why its a scam.

It's amazing how small some of the pages become once you put KS on ignore.

i might have to join you in that

[Slartybardfast]

Here here, if you don't have anything good to say, keep it to yourself. I applause you BitcoinOrama for doing what others only intimated at.