BitcoinOrama Report on the KnCminer/OrSoC Open-day Mon 10/06/13 (Stockholm)

[bitpop]

Damn fuck bfl. We need competitors like knc to put them out of business soon.

[rizzman]

Damn fuck bfl. We need competitors like knc to put them out of business soon.

+1E 5Million

[bitpop]

The comments are despicable too. Glad most miners are like those idiots and won't even be able to get them working or find real companies like we did.

[Bitcoinorama]

...

For sure, Avalon and ASiCminers offerings are wayy overpriced and have room to manoeuvre. Fried cat is driven by greed and not by giving a mutually reciprocal deal to purchases of ASICminer products. BitSyncom are beginning to show elements of greed, this is yet to be proven undeniably, although the current evidence is concerning. KnC have had to cover NRE which they now have done, they can't drop prices yet though as they have paying customers that need to ROI. ...

For what it's worth, I take issue with the suggestion that AM is somehow motivated by greed more so than any other mining hardware company. AM is one of the few companies with hardware on the shelf that can be purchased, right now. If you compare that to all of the other vendors, do you imagine that the prices for AM hardware should be similar to other vendors? I think not, since mining hardware ROI is nearly entirely reliant on time of delivery.

Prices are dictated by what the market will bear and given the amount of reselling that I see on eBay, ASICMiner could charge even more for their products. I'd suggest we keep the subjective assumptions about greed to ourselves and just discuss whether or not we feel a particular product is worth the price people are willing to pay.

I don't think that KnC is doing business for the betterment of mankind - I presume it's to turn a healthy profit and why not? I'm more interested in honesty and execution than motivation, for any company that's looking for my investment. So far, AM and KnC seem to be fairly similar in that regard.

Canth, KnC are running a business like professionals, of course they want to turn a profit, but they are serious about looking after their customers and the a bitcoin ecosystem, of which without they have no business. Sam is very keen on bettering Bitcoin and Bitcoins acceptance, as this works hand in hand with KnC and KnC offers a platform to do this, hence 'the life on Bitcoin' film. Without this Bitcoin will struggle to appreciate in value. As I said they have a lot of cool ideas beyond Jupiter which given everybody, especially their customers a great deal, and it's not all directly mining related.

What is ASICminer doing for bitcoins value? currently they are dumping Bitcoins into the exchange, flooding the market and suppressing the BTC value.

Back on point KnC have taken pre-orders, they have future predicted a sensible price point that allow NRE to be covered, whilst allowing customers to maximise returns in an uncertain environment competietively. They have purposely structured this to be fair to their customers. That price point becoming less attractive is out of their hands, they are making minimal profit on this first revision. Only when ASiCs are made after the first round, can they start to make some cash, and at that point can be more flexible with future equipment and pricing. This is done with the specific intention to be fair, give all parties a great deal, return ROI for the company and the consumer and build a loyal customer base.

ASICminer are in a privileged position, which they are wantonly abusing, setting the price with equipment in hand and no NRE to cover whilst predicting future hashrate competitiveness and hedging against it by giving their consumers a bum deal where they will never see a return and all future monies earned are given to ASICminer straight away. Only 'slashing' prices by enough to continue charging the consumer a price they knowingly will never recover.

Free market, eBay sales are uniformed buyers making dumb choices. I'm a capitalist, and I know some very, very wealthy guys that put ASICminer in the shade and will do for a very, very long time. They own obscene property portfolios and some are involved in disruptive finance ventures. They always, always ensure everyone involved in a deal compensated proportionately and fairly, why? Because you will burn your connections and customers and repeat business very quickly if you leave an unhappy aftertaste. A deal is a deal only of all parties are content and rewarded fairly. You get to make that mistake once.

ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.

0.025 BTC x 26 periods = 0.65 BTC a year.
3.5 BTC per share / 0.65 BTC dividends a year = 5.4 years ROI.

A blade and a USB stick will never ROI. ASICminer have purposely put their customers in that position. They own 25% of the Bitcoin network and as you can see with the current BTC price they are able to manipulate the market. They are too dominant and act without integrity, already having achieved centralisation and are abusing their power. They are one of the biggest current threats to Bitcoin.

All anyone has done is create a current monopoly, with only a hopeful oligopoly as a positive outcome. Fried Cat has risen to extreme wealth with no money down and rewards his initial investors marginally and screws over anyone else that succeeds on the basis the original investors have been happy with their investment. Now all he has to do is claim further wealth for himself give marginal dividends that don't amount to much and offer no value to anyone else. You take issue with the suggestion that this is greed?!!

[rizzman]

The comments are despicable too. Glad most miners are like those idiots and won't even be able to get them working or find real companies like we did.

Yea... It's rather disgusting seeing the suck-ups in the comment area stroking her. Like its going to make a difference in their order queue... its like peasants begging for just a few more crumbs...

LoL..

I can imagine a play being made off of this...

Peasant - "Perhaps the queen is feeling generous today?"

BFL Jody - "Yes... have a Jalapeno..." "You will find... that I am kind.."

[bitpop]

We call them AFCs

[Rampion]

ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.

Sorry, where did you take the number in bold? You have to be quite new in the scene if you don't know that ASIC miner shares started at EXACTLY 0.1BTC (that was the IPO price), and their shares were traded below 0.84BTC for quite a few weeks even after they started deploying. To be very concrete I just looked into my PM history for you, and exactly on February 11th three members of these forums (rxw, punin and scrypt) offered to me ASICminer shares between 0.36BTC and 0.5BTC each. I remember very well that moment because I turned their offers down as those prices looked to me "a tad expensive". Quite a big mistake, as I was very interested in buying, but I didn't. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

Going back to the real world figures, the increase on resale of ASICminer shares is x35 (and going up), not the laughable x4 you mentioned.

[dan99]

Have to agreed Asicminer is dumping the shares... after given a good bashing.

[Bitcoinorama]

ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.

Sorry, where did you take the number in bold? You have to be quite new in the scene if you don't know that ASIC miner shares started at EXACTLY 0.1BTC (that was the IPO price), and their shares were traded below 0.84BTC for quite a few weeks even after they started deploying. To be very concrete I just looked into my PM history for you, and exactly on February 11th three members of these forums (rxw, punin and scrypt) offered to me ASICminer shares between 0.36BTC and 0.5BTC each. I remember very well that moment because I turned their offers down as those prices looked to me "a tad expensive". Quite a big mistake, as I was very interested in buying, but I didn't. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

Going back to the real world figures, the increase on resale of ASICminer shares is x35 (and going up), not the laughable x4 you mentioned.

It was in a thread I read today, just before replying.

[Rampion]

ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.

Sorry, where did you take the number in bold? You have to be quite new in the scene if you don't know that ASIC miner shares started at EXACTLY 0.1BTC (that was the IPO price), and their shares were traded below 0.84BTC for quite a few weeks even after they started deploying. To be very concrete I just looked into my PM history for you, and exactly on February 11th three members of these forums (rxw, punin and scrypt) offered to me ASICminer shares between 0.36BTC and 0.5BTC each. I remember very well that moment because I turned their offers down as those prices looked to me "a tad expensive". Quite a big mistake, as I was very interested in buying, but I didn't. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

Going back to the real world figures, the increase on resale of ASICminer shares is x35 (and going up), not the laughable x4 you mentioned.

It was in a thread I read today, just before replying.

IPO price for ASIC miner was 0.1BTC, and they did sell less than they initially expected. ASICMiner is very probably the best investment ever in the Bitcoin world for those who bought at (or close to) IPO price.

[Bitcoinorama]

ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.

Sorry, where did you take the number in bold? You have to be quite new in the scene if you don't know that ASIC miner shares started at EXACTLY 0.1BTC (that was the IPO price), and their shares were traded below 0.84BTC for quite a few weeks even after they started deploying. To be very concrete I just looked into my PM history for you, and exactly on February 11th three members of these forums (rxw, punin and scrypt) offered to me ASICminer shares between 0.36BTC and 0.5BTC each. I remember very well that moment because I turned their offers down as those prices looked to me "a tad expensive". Quite a big mistake, as I was very interested in buying, but I didn't. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

Going back to the real world figures, the increase on resale of ASICminer shares is x35 (and going up), not the laughable x4 you mentioned.

It was in a thread I read today, just before replying.

IPO price for ASIC miner was 0.1BTC, and they did sell less than they initially expected. ASICMiner is very probably the best investment ever in the Bitcoin world for those who bought at (or close to) IPO price.

Yes, agreed, at that time, but now it is a bloated greed orientated, danger harvesting 25% of the coins awarded giving it the ability and power to suppress BTC market value (which appears to explain the current trend), and opens the doors to all sorts of price manipulation and preferential buybacks. This is not healthy for Bitcoin at all...

[dwdoc]

Excuse me but what does this have to do with KNCminer's open day?
Time to lock this thread?

[rizzman]

Excuse me but what does this have to do with KNCminer's open day?
Time to lock this thread?

Time to lock your face! 

[dan99]

ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.

Sorry, where did you take the number in bold? You have to be quite new in the scene if you don't know that ASIC miner shares started at EXACTLY 0.1BTC (that was the IPO price), and their shares were traded below 0.84BTC for quite a few weeks even after they started deploying. To be very concrete I just looked into my PM history for you, and exactly on February 11th three members of these forums (rxw, punin and scrypt) offered to me ASICminer shares between 0.36BTC and 0.5BTC each. I remember very well that moment because I turned their offers down as those prices looked to me "a tad expensive". Quite a big mistake, as I was very interested in buying, but I didn't. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

Going back to the real world figures, the increase on resale of ASICminer shares is x35 (and going up), not the laughable x4 you mentioned.

It was in a thread I read today, just before replying.

IPO price for ASIC miner was 0.1BTC, and they did sell less than they initially expected. ASICMiner is very probably the best investment ever in the Bitcoin world for those who bought at (or close to) IPO price.

Yes, agreed, at that time, but now it is a bloated greed orientated, danger harvesting 25% of the coins awarded giving it the ability and power to suppress BTC market value (which appears to explain the current trend), and opens the doors to all sorts of price manipulation and preferential buybacks. This is not healthy for Bitcoin at all...

Asicminer is greedy and their time will come.

[DPoS]

ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.

Sorry, where did you take the number in bold? You have to be quite new in the scene if you don't know that ASIC miner shares started at EXACTLY 0.1BTC (that was the IPO price), and their shares were traded below 0.84BTC for quite a few weeks even after they started deploying. To be very concrete I just looked into my PM history for you, and exactly on February 11th three members of these forums (rxw, punin and scrypt) offered to me ASICminer shares between 0.36BTC and 0.5BTC each. I remember very well that moment because I turned their offers down as those prices looked to me "a tad expensive". Quite a big mistake, as I was very interested in buying, but I didn't. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

Going back to the real world figures, the increase on resale of ASICminer shares is x35 (and going up), not the laughable x4 you mentioned.

It was in a thread I read today, just before replying.

IPO price for ASIC miner was 0.1BTC, and they did sell less than they initially expected. ASICMiner is very probably the best investment ever in the Bitcoin world for those who bought at (or close to) IPO price.

Yes, agreed, at that time, but now it is a bloated greed orientated, danger harvesting 25% of the coins awarded giving it the ability and power to suppress BTC market value (which appears to explain the current trend), and opens the doors to all sorts of price manipulation and preferential buybacks. This is not healthy for Bitcoin at all...

Asicminer is greedy and their time will come.

How? You wanted them to sell really low and screw their shareholders so the greed shifts to the resellers on ebay?  They had auctions for their blades.. reality bite much?

[Paladin69]

ASIC miners shares started around 0.84BTC, their perceived value is currently around 3.5BTC. It is perceived by those willing to purchase ownership. ASICminers value is still around 0.84 BTC as that is all they're owed for themselves to spend. The 4x increase on resale has been well received by the original investors. New ones won't see that. At a dividend payout of 0.025BTC on average every two weeks, it would take 5.4 years to ROi on ASICminer shares currently.

Sorry, where did you take the number in bold? You have to be quite new in the scene if you don't know that ASIC miner shares started at EXACTLY 0.1BTC (that was the IPO price), and their shares were traded below 0.84BTC for quite a few weeks even after they started deploying. To be very concrete I just looked into my PM history for you, and exactly on February 11th three members of these forums (rxw, punin and scrypt) offered to me ASICminer shares between 0.36BTC and 0.5BTC each. I remember very well that moment because I turned their offers down as those prices looked to me "a tad expensive". Quite a big mistake, as I was very interested in buying, but I didn't. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

Going back to the real world figures, the increase on resale of ASICminer shares is x35 (and going up), not the laughable x4 you mentioned.

It was in a thread I read today, just before replying.

IPO price for ASIC miner was 0.1BTC, and they did sell less than they initially expected. ASICMiner is very probably the best investment ever in the Bitcoin world for those who bought at (or close to) IPO price.

Yes, agreed, at that time, but now it is a bloated greed orientated, danger harvesting 25% of the coins awarded giving it the ability and power to suppress BTC market value (which appears to explain the current trend), and opens the doors to all sorts of price manipulation and preferential buybacks. This is not healthy for Bitcoin at all...

Asicminer is greedy and their time will come.

How? You wanted them to sell really low and screw their shareholders so the greed shifts to the resellers on ebay?  They had auctions for their blades.. reality bite much?

It's not the hardware they are selling.  It is the business model of growing a gigantic and centralized solo mining operation with a focus on removing independent miners from the equation.  It's a terrible disease that is spreading faster than people wanted.

btw, I can't remember if I posted in this thread before.  I just wanted to say thank you to BitcoinOrama for all your help in understanding KnC better.  I learned a lot from this thread and you.  I'll have to send some btc your way on my next payout.

[DPoS]

It's not the hardware they are selling.  It is the business model of growing a gigantic and centralized solo mining operation with a focus on removing independent miners from the equation.  It's a terrible disease that is spreading faster than people wanted.

People keep asking for hosting services.. AM provides the same thing for their shareholders.

[tinoki]

"Re: KNC Miner - Jupiter device: which PSU are you guys planning on using?

June 19, 2013, 02:46:06 PM

Reply with quote  #14
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Guys

Sorry for butting in in your discussion but don't buy any power supplies yet.

We will have a large Technical announcement coming next week. Where we will give even more accurate Power figures and GH/s.
It will be a significant announcement which I hope will make all of our customers happy. and no before you ask I wont reveal any details before that newsletter goes out Smiley

again please don't buy a 1200W power supply you simply will not need one that powerful or expensive.

Sam  "


Did they order the Asic Chip for production? or still playing with the chip?

[Bitcoinorama]

Looks like Josh is, or isn't almost certainly sure KnC may, or may not meet their deadline...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg2633722#msg2633722

Words from a genuine master in ambiguity, I think, or do I?...

[andrewsg]

I wouldn't touch BFL with a bargepole, but I'm with Josh on this one - otherwise I would be a knc customer. I would be shocked if knc delivered on their promised specs and timing.