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Author Topic: Bitcoin should be at $13,500 ?  (Read 6622 times)
semaforo
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June 17, 2013, 03:57:57 AM
 #61

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires.  

    There should be no argument about the possibility of bitcoin going to 1 million USD. It is possible. If China starts dumping US bonds, bitcoin could be at $1 million tomorrow based on selloffs of forex reserves rather than bitcoin buy up. Of course, then China would lose its biggest export market. Unemployment in China would then cause the Chinese government to collapse, along with the global economy.

      The dollar is overvalued right now. Bitcoin is undervalued. The correction may be fast or slow, but a correction is all but certain. How extreme that correction will be is a matter of debate. We are in "speculation" here- I say let them speculate.

    I say don't sit around and wait to become a millionaire- innovate, understand the potential, help build the infrastructure of bitcoin, and become a millionaire. Then it won't be a get rich scheme but a collective enterprise that depends entirely on the sagacity and motivation of the participants, an enterprise that will create billions in wealth through added efficiency to the global financial system and redistribute billions from inefficient banking and electronic payment institutions. I hope the price crashes a little bit more so we can consolidate the BTC in the hands of people who will be able to wisely reinvest them as the market value grows.
    

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bitzox
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June 17, 2013, 05:49:07 PM
 #62

All it would take for bitcoin to be well over 13.5k USD is one central bank deciding that they should put a tiny fraction of a % of their balance sheet in bit coins. If the Fed or the European Central Bank of the BOJ or BOE decided that they may, in the future, need to have the ability to manipulate the fiat/BTC exchange rate they may try to front run other central banks and get in at a relatively low price. Hypothetically speaking if the Fed put 1/10 of 1% of their monthly open market purchases into bitcoin the value of bitcoin would double in a year, not withstanding any other speculation or growth in the bitcoin economy. Change that number to 1% and the bitcoin exchange rate would be doubling every month.

Obviously this is pure speculation but anyone who says that values of 13k or 130k are unrealistic obviously doesn't understand global finance.

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June 18, 2013, 01:00:36 AM
 #63

Bitcoins fees are not too high.

If my credit card would charge me any fee higher than bitcoin I would agree with that.
But considering the fact that the fee with my credit card is 0, I disagree.

Whether or not you realize it you are indirectly paying a fee every time you use your credit card.

I don't. My bank does not charge me anything for providing me a credit card, and using it. Mercants do.
Not to mention that if my credit card got stolen, I can get my money back. If my btc address is stolen, I can't do shit.

Merchants pay credit card fees that average around 2.5-3% of the transaction and that cost is passed on to the consumer (you're kidding yourself if you think it isn't).

The only restriction I have is to pay more than 10 euros with my credit card (else I have to use cash). But the price is the same if I pay with check, credit card, cash, so...

That's why more and more merchants offer cash discounts.

See above.
Not to mention that I can withdrawn cash without being charged any fee.
Not to mention that before paying anything with btc, you have to buy them, and the fees are even greater than btc transaction fee.

Bitcoin fees are negligible compared to that. .0001 btc on a .1btc transaction is only 0.1%
All that is needed is an easy method for mainstream implementation.

That's bullshit again.
Some website said they accept bitcoin, like that "DigiDeals" in Australia. When you want to pay online, guess what:

Quote
Credit or Debit Card (2% processing fee)
  
PayPal (2% processing fee)
  
Bank Transfer
  
Bitcoin (5% processing fee)



Bitcoin fees will always be higher that credit card fees.
Try to figure out why by yourself.

Bitcoin payment processing is 0.99% through BitPay. Merchants pay roughly 2.7% in credit / debit processing fees. When you factor chargebacks in, that number rises to 3 - 10% in transaction costs. While the typical consumer does not understand that a merchant's payment processing costs directly inflate the price that merchant must charge, they will continue to use traditional methods. But when companies that exclusively accept bitcoin (bitcoinstore) are able to undercut other merchants, users will have an incentive to obtain bitcoins to pay for their goods. As bitcoin becomes easier and easier to secure, obtain, and use, the incentive to use them will not need to be as great.

I am curious why you think bitcoin fees will always be higher than credit card fees. When both parties are considered (consumer and merchant), they are significantly lower than credit card fees, and will likely always remain lower. You are speaking from one side of a two sided transaction.
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June 18, 2013, 01:53:44 AM
 #64

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires. 

Outsiders can form whatever opinion they want -- It won't change the objective truth that Bitcoin represents a monumental, heretofore unprecedented achievement of humanity with regard to its economical transfer of value.  This objective truth combined with the empirical evidence of humanity desiring individual economic freedom in an ultimate sense, assures that crypto-currency in some form will become the de-facto standard for human economic transfer.  It may make little sense then to ascribe any USD or otherwise fiat value to a BTC in that future, but given the facts I think there is no question that said value would be relatively HUGE.

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June 18, 2013, 11:22:30 AM
 #65

People continue to compare 2013 correction to 2011 correction.
Try to compare 2012 correction (no one ever talk of it, because it happened when so many were at the beach) with 2013 correction.




2012) it run up 400% and fell 50% --> 200% increase
Bitcoin inflation was 25%
Really few ways to use bitcoin
 
2013) it run up 2600% and fell 60%  --> 1000% increase
Bitcoin inflaton 12,5%
A lot more ways to use bitcoin (BitPay is just at what? 4000 merchants?) add the rest and wait for people to really start to adopt BTC as a way to pay for good and services.
We are just starting to heating the engine and moved around the parking lot.

If merchants accepting bitcoins are able to pass them to employees and suppliers (even a small fraction is a good start), the move up will be rocking.
And giving the increasing number of merchants accepting bitcoin, there is an increasing number of people (the merchants themselves) able and willing to have bitcoins and spend them with other merchants.
This should reduce the correction time, building a strong bottom, in just few months. By july-august end we will see a lot of pressure up just for increased adoption.
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June 18, 2013, 03:10:56 PM
 #66

Quote
it has lots of great properties — negligible transaction fees (...)


Bullshit.
My credit card is free of charge for me (as a customer), I don't give a shit if the merchant have to pay an American company for providing this service. But I know, and I care, that everywhere in the country I can use it, without paying any fee. Bitcoins fees are way too high.

WTF ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!? of corse you pay for it you jack ass! they jack up the price of things to do this. you think that if they charge the merchant then they wont double that fee and then charge you? fucking retard
ThatDGuy
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June 18, 2013, 04:17:36 PM
 #67

Bitcoin payment processing is 0.99% through BitPay. Merchants pay roughly 2.7% in credit / debit processing fees. When you factor chargebacks in, that number rises to 3 - 10% in transaction costs. While the typical consumer does not understand that a merchant's payment processing costs directly inflate the price that merchant must charge, they will continue to use traditional methods. But when companies that exclusively accept bitcoin (bitcoinstore) are able to undercut other merchants, users will have an incentive to obtain bitcoins to pay for their goods. As bitcoin becomes easier and easier to secure, obtain, and use, the incentive to use them will not need to be as great.

I am curious why you think bitcoin fees will always be higher than credit card fees. When both parties are considered (consumer and merchant), they are significantly lower than credit card fees, and will likely always remain lower. You are speaking from one side of a two sided transaction.

Summed up perfectly.  If this proposed wave starts to hit, BTC is going to get silly.
semaforo
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June 18, 2013, 05:34:53 PM
 #68

Quote
it has lots of great properties — negligible transaction fees (...)


Bullshit.
My credit card is free of charge for me (as a customer), I don't give a shit if the merchant have to pay an American company for providing this service. But I know, and I care, that everywhere in the country I can use it, without paying any fee. Bitcoins fees are way too high.

WTF ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!? of corse you pay for it you jack ass! they jack up the price of things to do this. you think that if they charge the merchant then they wont double that fee and then charge you? fucking retard

I think this is a little harsh. I have to point out that many people appreciate retarded people. I think they truly are special, because they express themselves authentically and honestly in a way that few "normal" people can. They are also great for entertainment because of their unique way of thought. They give us perspective we wouldn't otherwise have, which is why I think they should be included in  society rather than hidden away.

You made your point but as someone who frequents this forum at th7e moment, I would request that you show more respect to posters, regardless of how uninformed their views may be...
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June 18, 2013, 06:03:25 PM
 #69

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires. 

I am not sure.  If I am honest, I was not really that interested in BTC until my husband explained to me that there was a slight potential for each coin to be worth thousands someday.  Then I became very interested, perhaps with impure motives.  However, upon researching it more I have grown to see that there are so many other benefits.  It really can be liberating understanding the depth of "freedoms" this currency could bring if it gain worldwide adoption.  So, I have other reasons for supporting it now that are not just about "making millions."

So perhaps threads like this can spark an interest in some people that will help fuel the fire that starts growth.  Just my thoughts.

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June 18, 2013, 07:37:56 PM
 #70

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires. 

Man it would be great if we could limit such topics of discussion to a sub-forum specifically designed and designated for such conversation...someone should tell the mods about this idea  Tongue

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June 18, 2013, 09:15:58 PM
Last edit: June 18, 2013, 09:40:48 PM by 600watt
 #71

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires.  

Man it would be great if we could limit such topics of discussion to a sub-forum specifically designed and designated for such conversation...someone should tell the mods about this idea  Tongue
+

it is like watching tv. if you don´t like the show, don´t watch it.


edit
soon come:



veteranBtc
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June 18, 2013, 09:19:52 PM
 #72

"In 10 years, bitcoins will either be worth nothing, or a lot more than they are now — there is no middle ground."

I like how this sounds!

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June 18, 2013, 11:26:55 PM
 #73

yeah ICBMs make a crater on impact.
I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires.  

Man it would be great if we could limit such topics of discussion to a sub-forum specifically designed and designated for such conversation...someone should tell the mods about this idea  Tongue
+

it is like watching tv. if you don´t like the show, don´t watch it.


edit
soon come:





ICBMs make a fairly decent crater.

edit:



edit2: Do you understand the gravity of the situation?  Grin
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June 19, 2013, 01:16:18 AM
 #74

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires.  

I am not sure.  If I am honest, I was not really that interested in BTC until my husband explained to me that there was a slight potential for each coin to be worth thousands someday.  Then I became very interested, perhaps with impure motives.  However, upon researching it more I have grown to see that there are so many other benefits.  It really can be liberating understanding the depth of "freedoms" this currency could bring if it gain worldwide adoption.  So, I have other reasons for supporting it now that are not just about "making millions."

So perhaps threads like this can spark an interest in some people that will help fuel the fire that starts growth.  Just my thoughts.

Exactly, freedom is the best word to decribe bitcoin, a pure bitcoin economy works like a country without boarder and regulators, a real free market with minimum influence from human factors. Freedom is almost priceless

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June 19, 2013, 02:41:40 AM
 #75

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires.  

I am not sure.  If I am honest, I was not really that interested in BTC until my husband explained to me that there was a slight potential for each coin to be worth thousands someday.  Then I became very interested, perhaps with impure motives.  However, upon researching it more I have grown to see that there are so many other benefits.  It really can be liberating understanding the depth of "freedoms" this currency could bring if it gain worldwide adoption.  So, I have other reasons for supporting it now that are not just about "making millions."

So perhaps threads like this can spark an interest in some people that will help fuel the fire that starts growth.  Just my thoughts.

Exactly, freedom is the best word to decribe bitcoin, a pure bitcoin economy works like a country without boarder and regulators, a real free market with minimum influence from human factors. Freedom is almost priceless

If people get a taste of the "freedoms" bitcoin can bring, when it is used more places and more often, that is when we will really begin to see how revolutionary this all is and I believe 1 BTC could easily be worth $13,500 if not more.   Until then, I will just speculate a little with my BTC, spend a few, hold most and dream of the day. Wink

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June 19, 2013, 12:31:06 PM
 #76

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires. 

Man it would be great if we could limit such topics of discussion to a sub-forum specifically designed and designated for such conversation...someone should tell the mods about this idea  Tongue

The surprising thing is I didn't suggest such conversations should be banned or moved to another section.  I merely stated my belief that people wildly speculating about huge price increases (and thus their own personal gain) are not helpful in the grand scheme of things.  I mean hey, bring it on.  I'd like to pay off my mortgage some day for running a GPU app back in 2011.  I'm also aware that promoting such beliefs draws negative opinions from the wider community.
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June 20, 2013, 03:25:29 AM
 #77

Do you understand the gravity of the situation?  Grin

Its a rainbow

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June 20, 2013, 05:19:53 AM
 #78

I personally feel that all threads along the lines of 'bitcoin going to $10k' or 'bitcoins worth $1M' do more harm than good to bitcoin's reputation.  While speculation is fun there are two factors at play: No one can predict the future value of bitcoins with any certainty, and outsiders reading this forum may form the idea that bitcoin is just one huge get-rich-quick scheme full of people sitting and waiting to become millionaires. 

Man it would be great if we could limit such topics of discussion to a sub-forum specifically designed and designated for such conversation...someone should tell the mods about this idea  Tongue

The surprising thing is I didn't suggest such conversations should be banned or moved to another section.  I merely stated my belief that people wildly speculating about huge price increases (and thus their own personal gain) are not helpful in the grand scheme of things.  I mean hey, bring it on.  I'd like to pay off my mortgage some day for running a GPU app back in 2011.  I'm also aware that promoting such beliefs draws negative opinions from the wider community.

The wider community had negative opinions of Paypal back when they were invented, yet look how things ended up (the present).  A revolutionary technology will be inevitably adopted, despite any opinion of any majority.  Technical superiority + elegance / convenience of use = rule in this new aeon.

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June 22, 2013, 12:17:03 AM
Last edit: June 22, 2013, 01:08:30 AM by jubalix
 #79

have a graph


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June 22, 2013, 01:24:34 AM
 #80

Mass Adoption , here we comeeeee


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