WTF? Escrow Services Need A Serious Reboot!

[Scrappy Do]

 I have been trying to make a purchase using one of the *better known people* and I hate to say but majorly disappointed.

 Sure I get it, it is work and you deal with a lot of bullshit. But this .01 BTC fee may have back in the day been not much, but at today's prices, IT IS ALOT. Especially if it is is a transaction less than $1500 USD.

 To be honest, that is almost as bad as Western Union rates.

 Was BTC not meant to stop that? Is everyone here to gouge every single last fucking dollar they can?

 I need to find a legit escrow service here who is not so fucking money hungry they make more than either party involved. Is there such a thing? Do I need to start doing escrow? Hell I been here longer than A LOT of folks and my reputation is impeccable.

 So I ask this simple question, which escrows here are respected, offer a decent fee, and superior service. As of late, I am not sure this is possible.

Scrap'

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[yahoo62278]

You are probably correct in thinking the .01btc fee minimum is a bit much with the price being where it is but using the trusted guys makes your transaction safer. Escrows also have to deal with alot of bullshit with most transactions. I personally have been involved in deals that take half a day or longer because 1 party logs off, then replies and other party is offline. It's just too much a mess to deal with half the time.

Monbux, SebastianJu, and a handful of others listed in the escrow thread(I am not searching the link) are the way to go in most cases. You can try to speak with 1 of them and ask for a lower fee.

**EDIT** 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855778.0 

[Scrappy Do]

You are probably correct in thinking the .01btc fee minimum is a bit much with the price being where it is but using the trusted guys makes your transaction safer. Escrows also have to deal with alot of bullshit with most transactions. I personally have been involved in deals that take half a day or longer because 1 party logs off, then replies and other party is offline. It's just too much a mess to deal with half the time.

Monbux, SebastianJu, and a handful of others listed in the escrow thread(I am not searching the link) are the way to go in most cases. You can try to speak with 1 of them and ask for a lower fee.

**EDIT** 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855778.0 

 I get that bro... but lets pretend I used one of those names and it takes half a day for the person doing the escrow to respond and me and the person agreeing to the deal are waiting on them half a day.

 No, lets not pretend, I have been trying this and the rate is .01. It's fucking ridiculous especially when me and the buyer on the same page waiting on him to take $72. Lord forbid I sent the funds and have to wait another 12 hours on escrow to accept.

 There has to be a better way. Hell I am bitching and I am the buyer!!!

Scrap'

[Scrappy Do]

You are probably correct in thinking the .01btc fee minimum is a bit much with the price being where it is but using the trusted guys makes your transaction safer. Escrows also have to deal with alot of bullshit with most transactions. I personally have been involved in deals that take half a day or longer because 1 party logs off, then replies and other party is offline. It's just too much a mess to deal with half the time.

Monbux, SebastianJu, and a handful of others listed in the escrow thread(I am not searching the link) are the way to go in most cases. You can try to speak with 1 of them and ask for a lower fee.

**EDIT** 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855778.0 

 To add to this... of the big 3, one says straight off the top .01 minimum. I get that, he doesn't have time to fuck with the bullshit.

 I sent 2 PM's and sent PM's to the other 2 of the big 3 threads.

 1 Never responded.

 The other did with a .01 BTC fee.

 Now, this transaction was for a mere $1375. Do you not think that .01 is insane on that amount?

 In defense of all the others, I did not contact them, and they may be great. Shit I hope I can meet them. But of the BIG 3, I get the impression if its less than $10k, they don't have time or give a shit.

Scrap'

[Lone Shark]

You are probably correct in thinking the .01btc fee minimum is a bit much with the price being where it is but using the trusted guys makes your transaction safer. Escrows also have to deal with alot of bullshit with most transactions. I personally have been involved in deals that take half a day or longer because 1 party logs off, then replies and other party is offline. It's just too much a mess to deal with half the time.

Monbux, SebastianJu, and a handful of others listed in the escrow thread(I am not searching the link) are the way to go in most cases. You can try to speak with 1 of them and ask for a lower fee.

**EDIT** 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855778.0 

 To add to this... of the big 3, one says straight off the top .01 minimum. I get that, he doesn't have time to fuck with the bullshit.

 I sent 2 PM's and sent PM's to the other 2 of the big 3 threads.

 1 Never responded.

 The other did with a .01 BTC fee.

 Now, this transaction was for a mere $1375. Do you not think that .01 is insane on that amount?

 In defense of all the others, I did not contact them, and they may be great. Shit I hope I can meet them. But of the BIG 3, I get the impression if its less than $10k, they don't have time or give a shit.

Scrap'

One of the reasons as well as I hate giving loans with escrows. Usually they take a long ass time to respond to a request then each action also takes very long. I guess expediency is not the number one priority with them. Not to mention they are paid to do this, I would understand if they weren't. Not that I care about fees, since it is for the account of the borrower, but still indeed 0.01btc as fees are quite unreasonable at this point.

The issue I have with them is when collateral value drops and they are holding it for me. It would take hours before they can take action which would mean breaking even or totally lose on the loan if they do not liquidate the collateral in time.

If you'd like I can help you out, I charge about 2mbtc or 1% whichever is higher, though I don't usually do it only if people pm me asking about it. Anyway, good luck OP.

[Lauda]

Sure I get it, it is work and you deal with a lot of bullshit. But this .01 BTC fee may have back in the day been not much, but at today's prices, IT IS ALOT. Especially if it is is a transaction less than $1500 USD.

No, it is not a lot.

To be honest, that is almost as bad as Western Union rates.

Apples and oranges.

Was BTC not meant to stop that?

Stop private individuals from pricing their services how they deem appropriate? I don't even.

I need to find a legit escrow service here who is not so fucking money hungry they make more than either party involved.

Money hungry? You're an idiot.

Hell I been here longer than A LOT of folks and my reputation is impeccable.

Doubt.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855778.0  

Why are you linking a very outdated, thus misleading thread?

If you'd like I can help you out, I charge about 2mbtc or 1% whichever is higher, though I don't usually do it only if people pm me asking about it. Anyway, good luck OP.

The issue is risk. Each time you escrow, you are taking the risk and annoyance that might come with the deal itself. I'll probably lower to 0.005 once BTC is worth $10k. However, going much lower than $50 per deal does not seem reasonable.

[OgNasty]

I recently lowered my minimum to 0.007 BTC. If the Bitcoin rate stays elevated for a prolonged period I may lower it more.

[Scrappy Do]

I recently lowered my minimum to 0.007 BTC. If the Bitcoin rate stays elevated for a prolonged period I may lower it more.

 I wish we had contacted you first as this is reasonable. Especially on a mere $1375 item. But the post said you are .01 minimum and I figured your such a big balla you don't have time for measly shit.

 

[Lauda]

I recently lowered my minimum to 0.007 BTC. If the Bitcoin rate stays elevated for a prolonged period I may lower it more.

I wish we had contacted you first as this is reasonable. Especially on a mere $1375 item. But the post said you are .01 minimum and I figured your such a big balla you don't have time for measly shit.

Wrong. The reason because you think that is: 1) You are taking in false information from an old thread that Marco refuses to take down. 2) You haven't checked his own ANN: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303281.0.
Updated list of Escrows (October 2017): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276897.0.

[Scrappy Do]

Sure I get it, it is work and you deal with a lot of bullshit. But this .01 BTC fee may have back in the day been not much, but at today's prices, IT IS ALOT. Especially if it is is a transaction less than $1500 USD.

No, it is not a lot.

To be honest, that is almost as bad as Western Union rates.

Apples and oranges.

Was BTC not meant to stop that?

Stop private individuals from pricing their services how they deem appropriate? I don't even.

I need to find a legit escrow service here who is not so fucking money hungry they make more than either party involved.

Money hungry? You're an idiot.

Hell I been here longer than A LOT of folks and my reputation is impeccable.

Doubt.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855778.0  

Why are you linking a very outdated, thus misleading thread?

If you'd like I can help you out, I charge about 2mbtc or 1% whichever is higher, though I don't usually do it only if people pm me asking about it. Anyway, good luck OP.

The issue is risk. Each time you escrow, you are taking the risk and annoyance that might come with the deal itself. I'll probably lower to 0.005 once BTC is worth $10k. However, going much lower than $50 per deal does not seem reasonable.

 I get ya Lauda. I also get you been here for a while. But please try and remember, not everyone here has.

 Everyone screams USE ESCROW USE ESCROW!!! I get it, all good. Problem is I was/am trying to make a purchase from a brand new member and he is doing all he can to understand escrow, and all the hoops you have to jump.

 A mere $1375 purchase of a D3 miner to me is jack shit as I have 8 coming next week. Point is, to charge almost $75 when both parties are doing all they can as fast as they can to get it done and stays tied up for 3 days waiting on Escrow service to respond is total BULLSHIT.

 To add to that, If a newer member here is actually trying to do the right thing as suggested by the forums and gets no help what is he to think? Thank god I am a trustworthy person and been here trying to guide him. I thought we were in Crypto together... NOT to make as much as possible.

Scrap'

[Scrappy Do]

I recently lowered my minimum to 0.007 BTC. If the Bitcoin rate stays elevated for a prolonged period I may lower it more.

I wish we had contacted you first as this is reasonable. Especially on a mere $1375 item. But the post said you are .01 minimum and I figured your such a big balla you don't have time for measly shit.

Wrong. The reason because you think that is: 1) You are taking in false information from an old thread that Marco refuses to take down. 2) You haven't checked his own ANN: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303281.0.
Updated list of Escrows (October 2017): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276897.0.

 So you can tell us what the current list of good Escrow's are but no one on this forum can made a damn sticky to help newer members? Hmmmmmm....

[Lauda]

Everyone screams USE ESCROW USE ESCROW!!!

When dealing with random members or members with no verifiable history of trading, most definitely.

Point is, to charge almost $75 when both parties are doing all they can as fast as they can to get it done and stays tied up for 3 days waiting on Escrow service to respond is total BULLSHIT.

An escrow that takes 3 days to respond? Who did you PM? For example, my response time is on average 1-2 hours but can be a maximum of 12-24 in very extreme situations.

So you can tell us what the current list of good Escrow's are but no one on this forum can made a damn sticky to help newer members? Hmmmmmm....

You're complaining about that to the wrong person. For stickies, which is a forum issue, you need to make a thread in Meta.

[Steelclaw]

I recently lowered my minimum to 0.007 BTC. If the Bitcoin rate stays elevated for a prolonged period I may lower it more.

I wish we had contacted you first as this is reasonable. Especially on a mere $1375 item. But the post said you are .01 minimum and I figured your such a big balla you don't have time for measly shit.

Wrong. The reason because you think that is: 1) You are taking in false information from an old thread that Marco refuses to take down. 2) You haven't checked his own ANN: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303281.0.
Updated list of Escrows (October 2017): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276897.0.

I am the new user in question who is selling the Antminer D3. I thought it was up to the buyer to find and pay the escrow service, but perhaps I am mistaken? If I need to be the one to make contact, who would be the fastest and least expensive to deal with? We almost have a deal, but the escrow price and wait time is killing it, and I'm uncomfortable sending expensive hardware to anyone without at least some protection.

Can anyone help me out here, please? If I need to pay the escrow, I don't quite understand the entries in the fees column.

Scrappy, are you willing to go with our original deal of $1375 if we can find a fast and inexpensive escrow?

[Lauda]

I thought it was up to the buyer to find and pay the escrow service, but perhaps I am mistaken?

You are mistaken. If you solely let the buyer find an escrow, then you're more prone to getting scammed as well. In a deal, both the escrow and the fees need to be mutually decided. With this, I mean that there are cases where the seller pays the fee, and cases in which both parties share the cost of the fee.

If I need to be the one to make contact, who would be the fastest and least expensive to deal with? We almost have a deal, but the escrow price and wait time is killing it, and I'm uncomfortable sending expensive hardware to anyone without at least some protection.

I've posted a link that contains the most updated list of escrows.

Can anyone help me out here, please? If I need to pay the escrow, I don't quite understand the entries in the fees column.

The fees are simple in that thread, either it is a percent of the transaction or a percent with a minimum. For example, for Crypto Escrow Team (CET) which I'm a part of the fees are usually 1-2% with a 1cB (that weird 'c' sign in the table) means centiBitcoin (0.01 BTC). For example, Lutpin escrow fee is now at minimum 5 mBTC = 0.005 BTC.

[Steelclaw]

I thought it was up to the buyer to find and pay the escrow service, but perhaps I am mistaken?

You are mistaken. If you solely let the buyer find an escrow, then you're more prone to getting scammed as well. In a deal, both the escrow and the fees need to be mutually decided. With this, I mean that there are cases where the seller pays the fee, and cases in which both parties share the cost of the fee.

If I need to be the one to make contact, who would be the fastest and least expensive to deal with? We almost have a deal, but the escrow price and wait time is killing it, and I'm uncomfortable sending expensive hardware to anyone without at least some protection.

I've posted a link that contains the most updated list of escrows.

Can anyone help me out here, please? If I need to pay the escrow, I don't quite understand the entries in the fees column.

The fees are simple in that thread, either it is a percent of the transaction or a percent with a minimum. For example, for Crypto Escrow Team (CET) which I'm a part of the fees are usually 1-2% with a 1cB (that weird 'c' sign in the table) means centiBitcoin (0.01 BTC). For example, Lutpin escrow fee is now at minimum 5 mBTC = 0.005 BTC.

Thank you for this information, Lauda. With this in mind I've updated my offer, and I don't mind paying a 1% fee like I see one some of those entries, assuming it's actually under $14. I appreciate that this community is so helpful.

[philipma1957]

Okay I do escrow's I don't look to undercut other escrow services.

I charge 1.5%  plus 0.001 for tx fees

so a 1350 item is about 0.18 btc

so

0.1800  goods plus shipping
0.0027  my 1.5% fee
0.0010  tx fees


0.1837  total

I only posted here since I was contacted via pm


my policy Is  
I need a payment address from the seller
I need a refund address from the buyer

when I get both I create a new escrow address on my core wallet.



As for fees  and what is fair.  Heres goes
at 1.5%  if I do 60 correct and 1 wrong I could lose money.

60 x .015 = .9

so 66 x 0.015 = .99

so If I do 66 1 btc  deals  with one wrong I break even.

Most of us that do escrow don't like the work.  I have dozens of requests  that fall through and  it takes time.

I just did 4 escrows for a total of about 10,000 I made  around 150

I have 40 plus pms  read and answered to do those 4 escrows.
and they were all smooth.

Escrows are hard work and a lot can go wrong.  Just saying.

[Dabs]

I was contacted too, but it seems someone else is going to do it so I didn't reply anymore. I get a lot less offers for escrow, but maybe it's because my minimum fee is higher than everyone else (at 0.03 BTC currently), but standard 1% otherwise. Which translates to an effective minimum of a 3 BTC transaction.

Scrappy Do is partially correct though, 3 BTC = approx $20k USD now.

[Lauda]

Most of us that do escrow don't like the work.  I have dozens of requests  that fall through and  it takes time.

I do *enjoy* (probably incorrect wording) helping out others via escrow given that we are talking about simple deals. I do tend to reject some complicated or too risky ones.

I just did 4 escrows for a total of about 10,000 I made  around 150

I have 40 plus pms  read and answered to do those 4 escrows and they were all smooth.

Escrows are hard work and a lot can go wrong.  Just saying.

This is what I'm talking about. Let's put problematic deals aside: If you mess up one decently sized escrow and somehow lose funds, how many escrow deals are required to cover that loss? A lot.

I was contacted too, but it seems someone else is going to do it so I didn't reply anymore. I get a lot less offers for escrow, but maybe it's because my minimum fee is higher than everyone else (at 0.03 BTC currently), but standard 1% otherwise. Which translates to an effective minimum of a 3 BTC transaction.

As long as there are escrows with lower minimums, that is fine for the market.

[Dabs]

I've been considering increasing my fees actually ... I was on another forum and the staff there charge 2% regularly. On other contracts, I average between 1% to 3%, particularly the ones that involve more than one signature, or more than one address. Like, hundreds of them. Such a hassle really, not so much if that particular project is successful, but if it fails (such as ICOs that don't get enough) .... the refunds to hundreds of people ... oh the "joys" ...

[Lauda]

I've been considering increasing my fees actually ... I was on another forum and the staff there charge 2% regularly.

Any idea what "real life escrow" fees look like? I know that you can get licenced in the US, but no idea what the usually charge.

On other contracts, I average between 1% to 3%, particularly the ones that involve more than one signature, or more than one address. Like, hundreds of them. Such a hassle really, not so much if that particular project is successful, but if it fails (such as ICOs that don't get enough) .... the refunds to hundreds of people ... oh the "joys" ...

CET normally charges between 1 and 4% depending on a lot of factors as well, like the ones that you've mentioned. More money = more risk, more addresses = more work, and so on.