Is Avalon mining with customer hardware? Answer is here.

[binaryFate]

You guys are funny,

Dont bother fcking complaining because at the time of ordering your batch2 and batch 3, you accepted no QUESTIONs term.

Disclosure: I don't have any pre-order or interests related to avalon hardware. I don't think I am the only one in this thread. Still I do "fcking complain", as you say.
Being in the BTC world does not give right to a company to behave like an ass-hole, or worse, to behave illegaly. And being a BTC customer does not mean you should behave like a sheep, not rising something you consider a very serious problem.

[Xialla]

Wasn't aware Terrahash (who I'm pretty confident of), have released any details or proof of any bulk chip order from BitSyncom yet...

https://terrahash.com/sample-avalon-chips-and-klondike-16-boards/
https://terrahash.com/terrahash-assembles-the-first-klondike-16-board-for-testing/

I believe them, but don't believe Avalon, so only reason, why I will not order anything from them is, that they are waiting for Avalon chips..

[Bitcoinorama]

Wasn't aware Terrahash (who I'm pretty confident of), have released any details or proof of any bulk chip order from BitSyncom yet...

https://terrahash.com/sample-avalon-chips-and-klondike-16-boards/
https://terrahash.com/terrahash-assembles-the-first-klondike-16-board-for-testing/

I believe them, but don't believe Avalon, so only reason, why I will not order anything from them is, that they are waiting for Avalon chips..

Xialia, I'm well aware they have sample chips, but there has been no statement with regard to *when they made their order through BitSyncom, and as of yet they have been entirely evasive when asked.

I do believe Terrahash have the best intentions, but I think they may have ordered later than most people would be comfortable with, maybe...

[bennybong]

Genuinely, with all the best and fairest intentions on my part I don't believe that, sorry.

Never have I ever had such a pleasant response from someone on the internet. I was genuinely expecting some flaming from that one.

Hats off to you sir!  

[Bitcoinorama]

Genuinely, with all the best and fairest intentions on my part I don't believe that, sorry.

Never have I ever had such a pleasant response from someone on the internet. I was genuinely expecting some flaming from that one.

Hats off to you sir!  

Haha, no worries, I'm a polite guy, and I sit back and observe before commenting in any heat of the moment. Plus I'd rather we all get a piece of something, than a few get most, I don't want to see anyone scammed...

Thank-you for the polite retort!

[MikkisJ]

Looking at the hashrate, and knowing who ASIC hardware producers are, it looks like Avalon currently has about 50% of total hashrate. They are sneakily distributing hashing power in many different pools trying to conceal the fact.

According to my calculations at this time they have made at least 1500BTC on customers' hardware.

[BenTuras]

Looking at the hashrate, and knowing who ASIC hardware producers are, it looks like Avalon currently has about 50% of total hashrate. They are sneakily distributing hashing power in many different pools trying to conceal the fact.

Do you have any idea how many KILOWATTS you will need to run 50% of the Bitcoin network ?!
I'll help:
1 Avalon unit realizes 66Gh and uses 650W.
The network is 156418Gh, 50% is 78209Gh, so you will need 770 kilowatts of electricity to run those 1184 Avalon machines.

[coinedBit]

1 Avalon unit realizes 66Gh and uses 650W.
The network is 156418Gh, 50% is 78209Gh, so you will need 770 kilowatts of electricity to run those 1184 Avalon machines.

770 kW isn't very much, it just depends on where you live and if you have access to cheap/free electricity.

http://www.platformonomics.com/2013/05/press-releases-wed-like-to-see-iceland-embraces-the-bitcoin-economy/
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-bitcoins-are-mined-and-used-2013-4

[jspielberg]

It would be great to get some clarification.

In addition, this delay is eating into our timeline for this project's future goals and various other projects. To be frank: it was a simple decision of build a mining farm ourselves and mine for a month or so to get the funding for things like the SMT line and next generation development vs. raise the price and sell units trying to get the money earlier to counterbalance the delay we have had. So, we came up with some terms and left the choice to the community.

The impression from the letter was that Batch3 was priced high enough so they wouldn't have to deal with these conflict of interest with the customers shenanigans.  The implication of the "vs." was that this was going to be an either/or situation  

Anyway... I still believe Bitsyncom are the good guys (at least compared to the other players on the field).  But it would sure be nice if they could communicate and pick up the pace so they don't have to deal with this anymore.  I am sure they are anxious to focus on their private future endeavors (i.e. the farm/Gen2/chip sales/etc.).

[Wayne_Chang]

1 Avalon unit realizes 66Gh and uses 650W.
The network is 156418Gh, 50% is 78209Gh, so you will need 770 kilowatts of electricity to run those 1184 Avalon machines.

770 kW isn't very much, it just depends on where you live and if you have access to cheap/free electricity.

http://www.platformonomics.com/2013/05/press-releases-wed-like-to-see-iceland-embraces-the-bitcoin-economy/
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-bitcoins-are-mined-and-used-2013-4

Agreed. If you have a factory that runs SMT production line as Avalon claimed, 770 kw power supply is not difficult to gain.

[MikkisJ]

I'm not sure how much electricity costs in China, but I think it's a lot cheaper than in the West. One factory can easily consume 1GW depending on what they do. One large warehouse is enough to set up all the hardware. Or they might be using several locations with 10 or so GW. That's not that hard to pull off considering how much money they can make.

If recent increases in hashrate don't come from Avalon, then who else has almost exactly the same amount of hashing power they promised to deliver almost exactly the same time when they promised to deliver?

[coinedBit]

who else has almost exactly the same amount of hashing power they promised to deliver almost exactly the same time when they promised to deliver?

http://static.blockchain.info/pools.png?format=png

you "just" need to control a bunch of pools for >= 51%

770 kW isn't very much, it just depends on where you live and if you have access to cheap/free electricity.

http://www.platformonomics.com/2013/05/press-releases-wed-like-to-see-iceland-embraces-the-bitcoin-economy/
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-bitcoins-are-mined-and-used-2013-4

Agreed. If you have a factory that runs SMT production line as Avalon claimed, 770 kw power supply is not difficult to gain.

while being fully tax-deductible  

[MikkisJ]

Right at this moment total hashpower is over 150TH/s. With AsicMiner 20TH/s it's possible that Avalon is hashing right now at around 70TH/s. They might have less, something like 20%, but it's not impossible that they have over 45% if they have all the batch 2 and 3 and a lot of chip orders delivered, assembled and hashing.

Batch 3 promises on delivery quantity and time schedules coincide with recent hash rate increases (last 2-4 weeks).

[Bitcoinorama]

Right at this moment total hashpower is over 150TH/s. With AsicMiner 20TH/s it's possible that Avalon is hashing right now at around 70TH/s. They might have less, something like 20%, but it's not impossible that they have over 45% if they have all the batch 2 and 3 and a lot of chip orders delivered, assembled and hashing.

Batch 3 promises on delivery quantity and time schedules coincide with recent hash rate increases (last 2-4 weeks).

*If* they have been doing this, in total contrast to what Yifu has led everyone to believe about his character, this is a low blow.

Greed corrupts, and my faith in humanity, that Bitcoin was restoring, will be at a new low...

[ThatDGuy]

Right at this moment total hashpower is over 150TH/s. With AsicMiner 20TH/s it's possible that Avalon is hashing right now at around 70TH/s. They might have less, something like 20%, but it's not impossible that they have over 45% if they have all the batch 2 and 3 and a lot of chip orders delivered, assembled and hashing.

Batch 3 promises on delivery quantity and time schedules coincide with recent hash rate increases (last 2-4 weeks).

*If* they have been doing this, in total contrast to what Yifu has led everyone to believe about his character, this is a low blow.

Greed corrupts, and my faith in humanity, that Bitcoin was restoring, will be at a new low...

Bitcoin itself is stronger than all of this early-ASIC drama.  Greed is just one powerful driving force behind the whole concept, too. 

While it's very upsetting for the customers of various companies not treated well right now, it also makes a lot of room for a good company to stand out and succeed, and the positive feedback loop for them from previously slighted customers may end up making them more profitable overall than those companies that sought shorter-term profits.  AM seems to be a good current example of that.

[Bitcoinorama]

Right at this moment total hashpower is over 150TH/s. With AsicMiner 20TH/s it's possible that Avalon is hashing right now at around 70TH/s. They might have less, something like 20%, but it's not impossible that they have over 45% if they have all the batch 2 and 3 and a lot of chip orders delivered, assembled and hashing.

Batch 3 promises on delivery quantity and time schedules coincide with recent hash rate increases (last 2-4 weeks).

*If* they have been doing this, in total contrast to what Yifu has led everyone to believe about his character, this is a low blow.

Greed corrupts, and my faith in humanity, that Bitcoin was restoring, will be at a new low...

Bitcoin itself is stronger than all of this early-ASIC drama.  Greed is just one powerful driving force behind the whole concept, too.  

While it's very upsetting for the customers of various companies not treated well right now, it also makes a lot of room for a good company to stand out and succeed, and the positive feedback loop for them from previously slighted customers may end up making them more profitable overall than those companies that sought shorter-term profits.  AM seems to be a good current example of that.

I agree and disagree. AM are straight profiteering which is also not cool...

[coinedBit]

Greed is just one powerful driving force behind the whole concept, too. 

Without greed, this would be a damn lonely place, we wouldn't just be losing all the scammers, but also pretty much anybody else who's hoping to make a fortune by being an early-adopter...

[mem]

Right at this moment total hashpower is over 150TH/s. With AsicMiner 20TH/s it's possible that Avalon is hashing right now at around 70TH/s. They might have less, something like 20%, but it's not impossible that they have over 45% if they have all the batch 2 and 3 and a lot of chip orders delivered, assembled and hashing.

Batch 3 promises on delivery quantity and time schedules coincide with recent hash rate increases (last 2-4 weeks).

*If* they have been doing this, in total contrast to what Yifu has led everyone to believe about his character, this is a low blow.

Greed corrupts, and my faith in humanity, that Bitcoin was restoring, will be at a new low...

ok tinfoil hat time:
Chinese govt has contacted their own local bitcoin ASIC producer and told them to start hashing with all power for corrupt govt officials China.
The race is on, lets see how the the rest of the world handles china's aggressive attack / attempt to control bitcoin.

Poor Yifu - someone might wake him up from his slumber again to comment on this
Must be tiring scooping side profits from crowd funded ASIC buiilds 

[CoinHoarder]

IF this is true, it is complete and utter bullshit.

I did not give Avalon a free loan to mine a million Bitcoins on top of the millions of dollars they made from hardware sales when they got greedy and jacked the prices up for Batch 3.

It was a fair price IF they delivered it when they said they would, but they are now over a month and a half late...

Your customers deserve some sort of recourse, especially if you've been mining on our hardware. That is totally unacceptable.

If this turns out to be true, I will never buy anything from Avalon ever again.

[Matthew N. Wright]

If this is true, I demand Yifu give me any and all bitcoins mined with my Avalons. (They are pre-orders, hence the "no refund" policy, but that goes both ways, it means the products and every internal component are 100% mine and thus any income derived from them is also mine.)