Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling

[Matthew N. Wright]

Hmm...

There is an option c here.

This might not be as black and white as people suspect.

But good thread for popped corn.

Option C would be that Inaba photoshopped the Werner post.  He then forced Garr255 under threat of canceling the order to admit that he is Werner, even though he (Garr255) is not.  Garr255 confesses under duress, not knowing that the Werner account makes him look like he's bid-shilling.   If option C actually happened, Inaba should quit BFL and work for the CIA.

Rampion already nailed this one as bullshit. Anyone with integrity would not bow to false blackmail just to "protect" some investors. In fact, it would allow him to give an excuse to investors that is out of his control.

[starsoccer9]

Hmm...

There is an option c here.

This might not be as black and white as people suspect.

But good thread for popped corn.

Option C would be that Inaba photoshopped the Werner post.  He then forced Garr255 under threat of canceling the order to admit that he is Werner, even though he (Garr255) is not.  Garr255 confesses under duress, not knowing that the Werner account makes him look like he's bid-shilling.   If option C actually happened, Inaba should quit BFL and work for the CIA.

Rampion already nailed this one as bullshit. Anyone with integrity would not bow to false blackmail just to "protect" some investors. In fact, it would allow him to give an excuse to investors that is out of his control.

I disagree. I am obvisually involved so I cant say my view isnt bias but from previous experiences when you are dealing with someone who acts unreasonably your best off just walking away or just doing what they want with a fake smile on your face. I am not saying that either gar or josh was acting as a child I am just stating how If someone acted like I child to me How I would react.

[boonies4u]

I am obvisually involved so...

Have you contacted Maged or Theymos? Do you believe that bid shilling is a scam, and if that is what happened you would feel scammed?

Your involvement (in pursuing the potential scam) could help get the wheels turning in this.

[ThatDGuy]

I am obvisually involved so...

Have you contacted Maged or Theymos? Do you believe that bid shilling is a scam, and if that is what happened you would feel scammed?

Your involvement (in pursuing the potential scam) could help get the wheels turning in this.

Also wondering this.  The auction thread shows that if Garr255 is Werner, then he artificially bumped up the auction starsoccer9 won by a price of at the very least 2 BTC.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I disagree.

No offense, but you also could easily be Gar255's sockpuppet. Just because you won an auction doesn't mean you weren't also just shill bidding in hopes someone else would win it, so your opinion does not trump ethics or common sense.

[starsoccer9]

I disagree.

No offense, but you also could easily be Gar255's sockpuppet. Just because you won an auction doesn't mean you weren't also just shill bidding in hopes someone else would win it, so your opinion does not trump ethics or common sense.

true, I am not quite sure how I could prove my self as not a sock puppet but i did pay gar255. I know you will claim that i could could of just sent the coins to my self being his sock puppet and all.


I have not contacted either of them. Personally Id prefer to be scammed 2 btc then to just have Garr255 disappear on me and be out 63btc.

[Inaba]

I have to admit, I'm pretty confused as to why there's so much resistance to verifying if a deleted post contains a certain bit of content.  No one is asking for the post to be restored or the content to be posted.  There's no privacy violations being requested or anything other than for verification to be performed.

I'm pretty boggled, honestly.  I know what I saw, I know what's in my browser window, I've taken a screen shot of it, there is no doubt in my mind that Werner posted that text.  I had no idea Werner was Garrs sock until that point, nor did I have any clue there was so much more to the Werner account than it just being Garr trolling me when I posted the screenshot.  Up until that time of Garrs mistake, I had taken zero notice of Werner... I mean, I get trolled much better numerous times a day and I hadn't given it a second thought.

I regret, now, not posting the quote faster and plopping up the screenshot, however when it happened I was confused by the response and it took me about 30 seconds to figure out what happened as I re-read it several times trying to figure out why Werner was making that post until it hit me that Garr screwed up.  By the time I quoted it, screen shotted it and got it uploaded, Garr had already deleted Werner version.  It would have been much better if I had posted that quote and then Garr followed it with the same text.  But my slow reaction time should not be the deciding factor here... if the post contents of the post in question  can be verified, I can not see any reason what so ever to not verify it.  It doesn't have to be posted, revealed or anything else, other than "Yep, it's the same" or "Nope, Inaba is full of shit."

Is Garr255 somehow financially or otherwise tied to Maged or Theymos?  Is there a reason behind these stall tactics?  I'm not making any accusations in this space, I am just curious if that may be a source of resistance to a seemingly reasonable request.

[ThatDGuy]

I disagree.

No offense, but you also could easily be Gar255's sockpuppet. Just because you won an auction doesn't mean you weren't also just shill bidding in hopes someone else would win it, so your opinion does not trump ethics or common sense.

true, I am not quite sure how I could prove my self as not a sock puppet but i did pay gar255. I know you will claim that i could could of just sent the coins to my self being his sock puppet and all.


I have not contacted either of them. Personally Id prefer to be scammed 2 btc then to just have Garr255 disappear on me and be out 63btc.

In the case that he would try to disappear without sending the equipment, copied and pasted this from CognitiveMining.com, the contact page for posterity:

Information

    Zip Code:83815
    Country:USA
    City:Hayden
    Telephone 1:1.(424).253.4278
    Telephone 2:1.(208).659.2349
    Email:garrett@cognitivemining.com

If you ever have any questions or concerns I will be available for contact and will usually respond the same day. I appreciate your investments and inquiries and will keep this company running in your best interest throughout its duration.

[boonies4u]

Personally Id prefer to be scammed 2 btc then to just have Garr255 disappear on me and be out 63btc.

Sounds like you're in a bit of a bind then.

He might just disappear on you anyways. Just like Garr255 had good reason to put up his apology, you have a good to not scare him off.

What will you do when you receive what you have bid on? (hopefully by this point we will find out if Werner is a sock account) Surely at that point he won't have any leverage over you.

While you're free to do what you wish... it would be disappointing to see nothing come out of this. Whether that be Inaba being caught for creating false screenshots or Garr using a sock account to scam people.

[starsoccer9]

Well at this point I just want my unit. The rest i will worry about then. Since Josh is here and is semi involved if he would be willing to redirect the one unit I bought from gar255 to me id have no problem going to theymos and maged about this, but at this point id much rather have a unit and loose 2 coins then have no unit and loose 63coins

[Deprived]

I have to admit, I'm pretty confused as to why there's so much resistance to verifying if a deleted post contains a certain bit of content.  No one is asking for the post to be restored or the content to be posted.  There's no privacy violations being requested or anything other than for verification to be performed.

I'm pretty boggled, honestly.  I know what I saw, I know what's in my browser window, I've taken a screen shot of it, there is no doubt in my mind that Werner posted that text.  I had no idea Werner was Garrs sock until that point, nor did I have any clue there was so much more to the Werner account than it just being Garr trolling me when I posted the screenshot.  Up until that time of Garrs mistake, I had taken zero notice of Werner... I mean, I get trolled much better numerous times a day and I hadn't given it a second thought.

I regret, now, not posting the quote faster and plopping up the screenshot, however when it happened I was confused by the response and it took me about 30 seconds to figure out what happened as I re-read it several times trying to figure out why Werner was making that post until it hit me that Garr screwed up.  By the time I quoted it, screen shotted it and got it uploaded, Garr had already deleted Werner version.  It would have been much better if I had posted that quote and then Garr followed it with the same text.  But my slow reaction time should not be the deciding factor here... if the post contents of the post in question  can be verified, I can not see any reason what so ever to not verify it.  It doesn't have to be posted, revealed or anything else, other than "Yep, it's the same" or "Nope, Inaba is full of shit."

Is Garr255 somehow financially or otherwise tied to Maged or Theymos?  Is there a reason behind these stall tactics?  I'm not making any accusations in this space, I am just curious if that may be a source of resistance to a seemingly reasonable request.

I'm in no way a fan of BFL - but on this issue I agree.

I can only see two reasons why they'd not want to verify whether the post was made by werner:

1.  They believe bidding up your own auctions with sock-puppets is fine - or at least something they shouldn't try to deter (i.e. something so trivial that they don't want to be involved).
2.  They're friendly with Garr AND believe it was his sock-puppet (if they're friends and DON'T think it's his sock-puppet then they'd have already checked).

I disagree with whichever of those is the reason - any deception by someone trying to obtain funds from the public should be exposed if it's simple to do.  In this case if werner made the post then with the short time-span there's no reasonable explanation other than that Garr was controlling the account.  In theory he could claim he was using it then but not when it bid on his auctions - but I can't see there being a lot of sympathy towards such a claim.

[ThatDGuy]

Whether that be Inaba being caught for creating false screenshots or Garr using a sock account to scam people.

While I admit that the possibility exists that Inaba created the screenshots, I think if that were true it's also very odd that he would be pushing so hard for the forum information:

I have to admit, I'm pretty confused as to why there's so much resistance to verifying if a deleted post contains a certain bit of content.  No one is asking for the post to be restored or the content to be posted.  There's no privacy violations being requested or anything other than for verification to be performed.

I'm pretty boggled, honestly.  I know what I saw, I know what's in my browser window, I've taken a screen shot of it, there is no doubt in my mind that Werner posted that text.  I had no idea Werner was Garrs sock until that point, nor did I have any clue there was so much more to the Werner account than it just being Garr trolling me when I posted the screenshot.  Up until that time of Garrs mistake, I had taken zero notice of Werner... I mean, I get trolled much better numerous times a day and I hadn't given it a second thought.

I regret, now, not posting the quote faster and plopping up the screenshot, however when it happened I was confused by the response and it took me about 30 seconds to figure out what happened as I re-read it several times trying to figure out why Werner was making that post until it hit me that Garr screwed up.  By the time I quoted it, screen shotted it and got it uploaded, Garr had already deleted Werner version.  It would have been much better if I had posted that quote and then Garr followed it with the same text.  But my slow reaction time should not be the deciding factor here... if the post contents of the post in question  can be verified, I can not see any reason what so ever to not verify it.  It doesn't have to be posted, revealed or anything else, other than "Yep, it's the same" or "Nope, Inaba is full of shit."

Is Garr255 somehow financially or otherwise tied to Maged or Theymos?  Is there a reason behind these stall tactics?  I'm not making any accusations in this space, I am just curious if that may be a source of resistance to a seemingly reasonable request.

All of this seems to be a logical additional (barely necessary at this point) confirmation that Inaba's version is the truth.  He's asking from a position of someone with nothing to hide.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Is Garr255 somehow financially or otherwise tied to Maged or Theymos?  Is there a reason behind these stall tactics?  I'm not making any accusations in this space, I am just curious if that may be a source of resistance to a seemingly reasonable request.

Yes, Garr256 is holding hundreds of bitcoins for the forum and Theymos personally selected him over other trustworthy people so it would certainly embarrass him to have his credibility called into question. That said, he gave me a scammer tag (idiot) while I was a moderator, so there is absolutely no excuse for not reacting accordingly to Garr255. If he refuses to scammer tag him, he needs to immediately remove my "Untrustworthy" tag.

[ThatDGuy]

I can only see two reasons why they'd not want to verify whether the post was made by werner:

1.  They believe bidding up your own auctions with sock-puppets is fine - or at least something they shouldn't try to deter (i.e. something so trivial that they don't want to be involved).
2.  They're friendly with Garr AND believe it was his sock-puppet (if they're friends and DON'T think it's his sock-puppet then they'd have already checked).

A possible addendum to item 2. would be simply a shareholder of COGNITIVE, wanting time to sell

[Matthew N. Wright]

I can only see two reasons why they'd not want to verify whether the post was made by werner:

1.  They believe bidding up your own auctions with sock-puppets is fine - or at least something they shouldn't try to deter (i.e. something so trivial that they don't want to be involved).
2.  They're friendly with Garr AND believe it was his sock-puppet (if they're friends and DON'T think it's his sock-puppet then they'd have already checked).

A possible addendum to item 2. would be simply a shareholder of COGNITIVE, wanting time to sell

Wouldn't be surpised knowing Theymos's reaction to GLBSE and Pirate.

[starsoccer9]

I really think that all the problems with the forum lately having been adding up and it may be time for someone to create a new fair forum

[Phinnaeus Gage]

When you're right, you're right.

Inaba is pretty clearly telling the truth here I believe.

How could Garr be so stupid. Like he really needs some low post count random account to add another negative post. Mind blowingly retarded move by him.

I concur!

The only way this could be worse is if Josh, Garr and werner were all the same person, of which I doubt, but shouldn't be overlooked by those capable of proving or disproving otherwise.

Nice catch, Josh! And from your chat logs its doesn't read to me that blackmail was was being used. Seemed like a fair exchange.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Hmm...

There is an option c here.

This might not be as black and white as people suspect.

But good thread for popped corn.

You might want to mention it considering Garr is currently bound by Josh not to defend himself, or risk losing his BFL shipment.

I cant prove it or have access to the info needed to be able to prove it. However there is a reasonable answer. If theymos looked into it i think he could confirm.

If this does get looked into you guys might be shocked by the findings and maybe everyone here has been honest.

Replying in order as I read to catch up, I think you're implying something here. Not exactly what, but I think I have an idea. Hopefully, you and/or I is a wrong. (I sometimes pen via a skewed vernacular)

[Deprived]

Inaba:  Assuming that you're telling the truth about the Werner post (which is my instinct) then why not call Garr's bluff?  At present he's hiding behind the perceived threat that you'll cancel his preorder to avoid having to make a clear statement on it.  Make a statement that if he denies it being his sock-puppet AND asks for theymos to confirm the post didn't exist then you won't cancel his pre-order regardless of what theymos then says.  Clearly you run the risk if you do that of Theymos then lieing and saying the post never existed - but he could do that anyway.  And I doubt, if the post existed, theymos would risk lieing.

Garr: If Werner IS your sock-puppet then you need to own up to it clearly and without evasion, admit it was wrong, repay anyone who lost on auctions as a result and bring this to a close.  If Werner isn't your sock-puppet (and you didn't make the post) then you need to be sending a PM to theymos to clear your name.  At present I doubt there's very many people who believe it wasn't you - as it would be a totally stupid thing for Inaba to claim when you're on good terms with the only person who can easily establish the truth.  Having maged/theymos try to worm out of getting involved to protect you would do you more harm than good - as it looks like compounding the fuckup by trying to cover it up.

[Inaba]

Good point, and that's fine.  Garr255 is welcome to say what he wants about Werner without any interference from me, beyond what I post here.  As a point of fact, I never said he couldn't.  I simply wanted him to apologize for lying and using a sock puppet, which he did in the most disingenuous way possible and was ultimately meaningless anyway.  However, unlike Garr, I'm actually honest and will not fire him as a customer, since he did what I requested in letter if not spirit.