All you idiots that "invested" in PMBs:

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

The chances of the difficulty staying still or dropping when a new generation of mining hardware is being rolled out is about zero.

Yay, waste more coins on PMBs that will have zero value soon

Take a look at this: http://bitcoindifficulty.com/

Print it out, hang it on your wall - upside down - and this is your PMB's value.

Every single PMB on the market > 0.0026 BTC / MH (as of posting) is overpriced. Kthnxbye.

[joele]

You can check the mining profit per difficulty adjustment here

http://btc.re/?t=miningcalc

[papaminer]

what is PMB anyway?

[whirlpool]

Perpetual Mining Bonds

[zoinky]

Yeah I feel like I cashed out just in time. The hashrate drop had a lot of people gambling.

[ryan1894]

Does this mean that DMS.SELLING is a very attractive security at the moment?

I just bought >200 DMS.MINING because I thought it was undervalued at 0.004 per MH/s but it seems now that the future profitability of all bitcoin mining operations seems very dull

[zoinky]

Does this mean that DMS.SELLING is a very attractive security at the moment?

I just bought >200 DMS.MINING because I thought it was undervalued at 0.004 per MH/s but it seems now that the future profitability of all bitcoin mining operations seems very dull

Just way too risky for this ASIC climate. I'm sure this was well known during the IPO's 

[EskimoBob]

from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223442.msg2555766#msg2555766

...Who ever invented those nasty perpetual mining turds, was either a clueless fuck, who did not understand how bad it is for the investors or, he knew exactly! what it is and abused the nonexisting investing experience of BTC enthusiasts. PMB are dressed up nice indeed.

Let me break it down for ya'll so you can understand wtf you get yourself into.

Lets say we have 2 guys. A and B. A wants to buy a bike so he can deliver newspapers. He ask you (B) for a loan. Once more, bond is a loan and principal investment must be returned.
 
He tells you:
1) Give me a loan but I have no obligation to pay you back what you gave me or in other words - I will stretch this loan out forever and will not guarantee you get back you money. I'll try to do my best so it won't happen.

2) I will make weekly (or what ever) payments but those payments are not fixed and can float up or down, depending how many papers I managed to deliver riding this bike. Bike I bought with your money. BTW. if I say home and sleep, you get nothing.

3) The road is one way and endless.  It's mostly up the hill pedaling. Higher I get, slower I move and less papers deliver. BTW, there will be fewer and fewer houses too. One more thing... I'll deduct the cost of sandwiches and water from the earnings and keep some of the earned coin for my self.

Now, do you lend me the money to buy that bike?

PS! There will be other bikes on that road. Some have motors and "paper cannons".

[ryan1894]

from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223442.msg2555766#msg2555766

...Who ever invented those nasty perpetual mining turds, was either a clueless fuck, who did not understand how bad it is for the investors or, he knew exactly! what it is and abused the nonexisting investing experience of BTC enthusiasts. PMB are dressed up nice indeed.

Let me break it down for ya'll so you can understand wtf you get yourself into.

Lets say we have 2 guys. A and B. A wants to buy a bike so he can deliver newspapers. He ask you (B) for a loan. Once more, bond is a loan and principal investment must be returned.
 
He tells you:
1) Give me a loan but I have no obligation to pay you back what you gave me or in other words - I will stretch this loan out forever and will not guarantee you get back you money. I'll try to do my best so it won't happen.

2) I will make weekly (or what ever) payments but those payments are not fixed and can float up or down, depending how many papers I managed to deliver riding this bike. Bike I bought with your money. BTW. if I say home and sleep, you get nothing.

3) The road is one way and endless.  It's mostly up the hill pedaling. Higher I get, slower I move and less papers deliver. BTW, there will be fewer and fewer houses too. One more thing... I'll deduct the cost of sandwiches and water from the earnings and keep some of the earned coin for my self.

Now, do you lend me the money to buy that bike?

PS! There will be other bikes on that road. Some have motors and "paper cannons".

I think most people understand what they're getting into - it's just that BTCT's dividend yield estimates are misleading because they're basing the yields on current prices - not at IPO.

Taking into account the falling price, I think most PMB's probably have a yield of 30-40% max in contrast to securities such as B.YABMC where BTCT estimates 172% yield, based on current prices

I actually thought DMS.MINING would return at least 100%, and I think that most people think that PMBs would return at least 100%.

[EskimoBob]

from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223442.msg2555766#msg2555766

...Who ever invented those nasty perpetual mining turds, was either a clueless fuck, who did not understand how bad it is for the investors or, he knew exactly! what it is and abused the nonexisting investing experience of BTC enthusiasts. PMB are dressed up nice indeed.

Let me break it down for ya'll so you can understand wtf you get yourself into.

Lets say we have 2 guys. A and B. A wants to buy a bike so he can deliver newspapers. He ask you (B) for a loan. Once more, bond is a loan and principal investment must be returned.
 
He tells you:
1) Give me a loan but I have no obligation to pay you back what you gave me or in other words - I will stretch this loan out forever and will not guarantee you get back you money. I'll try to do my best so it won't happen.

2) I will make weekly (or what ever) payments but those payments are not fixed and can float up or down, depending how many papers I managed to deliver riding this bike. Bike I bought with your money. BTW. if I say home and sleep, you get nothing.

3) The road is one way and endless.  It's mostly up the hill pedaling. Higher I get, slower I move and less papers deliver. BTW, there will be fewer and fewer houses too. One more thing... I'll deduct the cost of sandwiches and water from the earnings and keep some of the earned coin for my self.

Now, do you lend me the money to buy that bike?

PS! There will be other bikes on that road. Some have motors and "paper cannons".

I think most people understand what they're getting into - it's just that BTCT's dividend yield estimates are misleading because they're basing the yields on current prices - not at IPO.

Taking into account the falling price, I think most PMB's probably have a yield of 30-40% max in contrast to securities such as B.YABMC where BTCT estimates 172% yield, based on current prices

I actually thought DMS.MINING would return at least 100%, and I think that most people think that PMBs would return at least 100%.

OK, I guess my example was still too complicated to comprehend.

* you lucky man. You have 1 share of "A"
* "A" pay you money. Good money! 10 money every Saturday! You so happy!
* "A" price drop 12 money every Saturday too. You sad! Got 10 but lost 12.
* You still happy!? You stupid!

Or do we need to use crayons and paint you a fkn picture?

If you can buy a PMBT at deep discount so your next predicted "div payments - loss form price drop" gives you a positive number, go for it.

[eltopo]

I think most people understand what they're getting into - it's just that BTCT's dividend yield estimates are misleading because they're basing the yields on current prices - not at IPO.

Taking into account the falling price, I think most PMB's probably have a yield of 30-40% max in contrast to securities such as B.YABMC where BTCT estimates 172% yield, based on current prices

I actually thought DMS.MINING would return at least 100%, and I think that most people think that PMBs would return at least 100%.

At this moment DMS.MINING sells for 0.013417. If future average difficulty rise will be lower than 15%, DMS.MINING will return 100% or more. The lower the average difficulty rise will be, the earlier you'll be profitable. If average rise will be > 15%, you lose. (This is only an example for buying price 0.013417)

[John818]

I followed that link Eskimo Bob and am very surprised that you don't mind exposing your arrogant and offensive nature.

If I had posted such obscenities and arrogant scrawlings, I'd be ashamed and very unlikely to offer a link to said thread.

[jmutch]

Yeah i feel sorry for anyone that has any kind of faith in PMB's. But, i guess the warnings were there for would be investors.

In my opinion if you lost coins on them it's your own fault. If you made coins, then you bet the system good on you!

I think it's kind of strange designing something that is certain to fail. Anyway!

[ryan1894]

I think most people understand what they're getting into - it's just that BTCT's dividend yield estimates are misleading because they're basing the yields on current prices - not at IPO.

Taking into account the falling price, I think most PMB's probably have a yield of 30-40% max in contrast to securities such as B.YABMC where BTCT estimates 172% yield, based on current prices

I actually thought DMS.MINING would return at least 100%, and I think that most people think that PMBs would return at least 100%.

At this moment DMS.MINING sells for 0.013417. If future average difficulty rise will be lower than 15%, DMS.MINING will return 100% or more. The lower the average difficulty rise will be, the earlier you'll be profitable. If average rise will be > 15%, you lose. (This is only an example for buying price 0.013417)

Yea I understand but it seems that nobody ever sees a return of more than 50% on PMBs unless the issuer happens to be very generous and increases hash rate (e.g. PAJKA.BOND) or a percentage of the dividends are reinvested into more hardware and the security holder sees returns on this as well (turns into more of a share or a fund than a "PMB")

[dexX7]

Every single PMB on the market > 0.0026 BTC / MH (as of posting) is overpriced. Kthnxbye.

I'd like to know, why you choose the 1 % return per day threshold.

[Birdy]

Does this mean that DMS.SELLING is a very attractive security at the moment?

It was when it was at the same price as DMS.Mining, probabably even double the price.
But now the difficulty has to increase a lot to make it profitable, even though we know it will increase it's impossible to tell if it will be 10% or 25% on average.
It's gambling now.

[eltopo]

DMS.SELLING price is attractive if you think that DMS.MINING price is too high.

[canuck]

from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223442.msg2555766#msg2555766

...Who ever invented those nasty perpetual mining turds, was either a clueless fuck, who did not understand how bad it is for the investors or, he knew exactly! what it is and abused the nonexisting investing experience of BTC enthusiasts. PMB are dressed up nice indeed.

Let me break it down for ya'll so you can understand wtf you get yourself into.

Lets say we have 2 guys. A and B. A wants to buy a bike so he can deliver newspapers. He ask you (B) for a loan. Once more, bond is a loan and principal investment must be returned.
 
He tells you:
1) Give me a loan but I have no obligation to pay you back what you gave me or in other words - I will stretch this loan out forever and will not guarantee you get back you money. I'll try to do my best so it won't happen.

2) I will make weekly (or what ever) payments but those payments are not fixed and can float up or down, depending how many papers I managed to deliver riding this bike. Bike I bought with your money. BTW. if I say home and sleep, you get nothing.

3) The road is one way and endless.  It's mostly up the hill pedaling. Higher I get, slower I move and less papers deliver. BTW, there will be fewer and fewer houses too. One more thing... I'll deduct the cost of sandwiches and water from the earnings and keep some of the earned coin for my self.

Now, do you lend me the money to buy that bike?

PS! There will be other bikes on that road. Some have motors and "paper cannons".

I think most people understand what they're getting into - it's just that BTCT's dividend yield estimates are misleading because they're basing the yields on current prices - not at IPO.

Taking into account the falling price, I think most PMB's probably have a yield of 30-40% max in contrast to securities such as B.YABMC where BTCT estimates 172% yield, based on current prices

I actually thought DMS.MINING would return at least 100%, and I think that most people think that PMBs would return at least 100%.

OK, I guess my example was still too complicated to comprehend.

* you lucky man. You have 1 share of "A"
* "A" pay you money. Good money! 10 money every Saturday! You so happy!
* "A" price drop 12 money every Saturday too. You sad! Got 10 but lost 12.
* You still happy!? You stupid!

Or do we need to use crayons and paint you a fkn picture?

If you can buy a PMBT at deep discount so your next predicted "div payments - loss form price drop" gives you a positive number, go for it.

BWAHAHAHAHA!  Oh good christ! +100

CAN'T...STOP...LAUGHING!

[crumbs]

If i could get my hands on the unicorn blood that makes PMBs sell, i'd be soooo happy.

[SOSLOVE868]

You can check the mining profit per difficulty adjustment here

http://btc.re/?t=miningcalc

I like what you put ,end the world or never....

This perfectly describing to the some PMBs in the market...