150k USD startup budget. Help needed!

[Rora]

Hi guys!

I am currently in the process of planning a bitcoin mining operation. I have a start-up budget of roughly 150k USD. What do you recommend? Im not going with ANY pre-order start-up company as until such time that they prove to distribute product, Im not interested in sinking FIAT into any non established operation.

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

Thanks. 

[cedivad]

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

I would wait.
(i'm extremely serious).

[Rora]

I really appreciate the input. When can we expect most of the setups to be yielding products and will the difficulty at that point be too high to make the money back?

[jspielberg]

Unfortunately, the model that has been put forward by BFL (i.e. pre-orders paid in full) seem to be the modus operandi for mining hardware manufacturers.
If you wait until its safe, other more reckless than you will be taking risks... Some of them will get burned and some will be "modestly" rewarded.

I think probably the safest approach would be to hold and invest in the upcoming mining operators like 100TH or BTCGarden.  There will at least be a market for these shares so you can liquidate if needed.

[Bitcoinorama]

I back up Cedivad's statement, and hopefully in enough time before the shark's circling you start to mass PM you!

Stay well clear until you have researched the area thoroughly and have seen how September/October pans out. Unless you can get tied to a real engineering firm, forget it, completely. 150k is a lot of money, but not a lot in ASIC development, and almost certainly futile in the current ASIC development race.

It may give you a fighting chance as a reseller, or a hosting investment op, once a benchmark is in place for Bitcoin ASIC tech.

Not now. At all. You will get burned!

[Bitcoinorama]

Unfortunately, the model that has been put forward by BFL (i.e. pre-orders paid in full) seem to be the modus operandi for mining hardware manufacturers.
If you wait until its safe, other more reckless than you will be taking risks... Some of them will get burned and some will be "modestly" rewarded.

I think probably the safest approach would be to hold and invest in the upcoming mining operators like 100TH or BTCGarden.  There will at least be a market for these shares so you can liquidate if needed.

And well it has to be if you develop customer ASICs and don't have millions to hand!

[Franktank]

Hi guys!

I am currently in the process of planning a bitcoin mining operation. I have a start-up budget of roughly 150k USD. What do you recommend? Im not going with ANY pre-order start-up company as until such time that they prove to distribute product, Im not interested in sinking FIAT into any non established operation.

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

Thanks. 

Hold, anyone PM'ing you about making "tons of BTC" or "doubling your investment" are trying to weasel you out of your money.

[Rora]

Please dont mistake this thread for ignorance on how this community works in terms of pre-orders. This isn't to say that some of the operations in play are not legit. But I will certainly not line the pockets of anyone until such time they have a proven working model in hand. This is just for a startup mining operation. If it is successful I will be ramping up to a much larger scale. I need to validate the project first before going forward. Waiting for sept/oct may prove to be a far better idea. But will 150k still yield any profits with the difficulty at that time?

[Rora]

Again, I really appreciate the input.

[k9quaint]

Please dont mistake this thread for ignorance on how this community works in terms of pre-orders. This isn't to say that some of the operations in play are not legit. But I will certainly not line the pockets of anyone until such time they have a proven working model in hand. This is just for a startup mining operation. If it is successful I will be ramping up to a much larger scale. I need to validate the project first before going forward. Waiting for sept/oct may prove to be a far better idea. But will 150k still yield any profits with the difficulty at that time?

If no profits can be had after September due to difficulty, you are better off not starting the operation until that changes.

[titomane]

Again, I really appreciate the input.

Any offer that make you via PM. Make it published in the forum. Avoid defraud you. Expect to September is good advice.
Another option buy BTC for under $ 100 and wait for it to rise.

[kendog77]

With that large of an investment, I would be talking directly to AsicMiner, Terrahash, BFL, and KncMiner to see what they could do and perhaps arrange a deal where funds are held in escrow with very specific target delivery dates (i.e. deliver by August or else the deal is off, and no payment prior to delivery).

Companies may be willing to bend over backwards for a 150k order, and if they don't, I agree with others that waiting is probably your best option.

[titomane]

With that large of an investment, I would be talking directly to Terrahash, BFL, and KncMiner to see what they could do and perhaps arrange a deal where funds are held in escrow with very specific target delivery dates (i.e. deliver by August or else the deal is off, and no payment prior to delivery).

Companies may be willing to bend over backwards for a 150k order, and if they don't, I agree with others that waiting is probably your best option.

150k If a company is able to skip the delivery order. That does not tell you what if a customer comes back 300k to do the same.

[kendog77]

With that large of an investment, I would be talking directly to Terrahash, BFL, and KncMiner to see what they could do and perhaps arrange a deal where funds are held in escrow with very specific target delivery dates (i.e. deliver by August or else the deal is off, and no payment prior to delivery).

Companies may be willing to bend over backwards for a 150k order, and if they don't, I agree with others that waiting is probably your best option.

150k If a company is able to skip the delivery order. That does not tell you what if a customer comes back 300k to do the same.

True, but if funds are held in escrow contingent upon delivery, where is the risk to the OP? Either they deliver in August, or they don't and she still has her money and can re-evaluate the situation in September.

[dogie]

With that large of an investment, I would be talking directly to Terrahash, BFL, and KncMiner to see what they could do and perhaps arrange a deal where funds are held in escrow with very specific target delivery dates (i.e. deliver by August or else the deal is off, and no payment prior to delivery).

Companies may be willing to bend over backwards for a 150k order, and if they don't, I agree with others that waiting is probably your best option.

150k If a company is able to skip the delivery order. That does not tell you what if a customer comes back 300k to do the same.

True, but if funds are held in escrow contingent upon delivery, where is the risk to the OP? Either they deliver in August, or they don't and she still has her money and can re-evaluate the situation in September.

Opportunity cost?

[Rora]

Essentially this will function to test our infrastructure and location. I will be looking to spend a lot more once this proves successful.

When can I expect delivery from the following? I understand its all speculation.

KNCminer - Sept
Bitfury - ?
BFL - June 2018
Terrahash - ?

Thank you.

[cedivad]

150k is nothing in this business right now. This is the main point. It was a lot of money 6 months ago, but what is it now? 10 avalon farting?

You can't have a direct contract with Avalon or BFL for this amount.

It's a market designed to be as competitive as possible and I only see revenue streams selling your hardware to others. The problem is that we don't have the hardware, and we are late in the game to develop ours. How late? It it worth trying? I often asked that to myself.

[titomane]

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

I would wait.
(i'm extremely serious).

I would buy 150k$ worth of BTC, then wait.

+1

But do not buy at any price. Maximum $ 100

[Bitcoinorama]

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

I would wait.
(i'm extremely serious).

I would buy 150k$ worth of BTC, then wait.
(i'm extremely serious too).

I wouldn't at all, not for the short term. Lot's of idiots have ignored repeated advice not to use debt to finance mining.

Do you realise what this means when companies start to deliver and the hashrate is a lot greater?

A lot of coins being sold to recoup ROI, and cover debt.

This equals a likely fall in BTC price, unless mainstream adoption causes more parties to buy.

I would be bricking myself right now if I'd got into debt for ASIC development and pre-orders.

Of course this scenario may not happen like this, but market pricing is dependant on sellers vs. buyers, and blatantly there will be a sudden rush of sellers.

There is nothing courageous about using debt in this situation, or more than one can afford to lose. Only a total idiot would be buying ASIC pre-orders with borrowed money!

$100 is a very psychological number, a milestone, it's the reason we are bouncing around it now.

[PaperClip]

1) Invest into CPU/GPU/FPGA mining is not an option anymore, you will not earn you invested money back.

2) Only option left is to buy ASIC. There are few companies that produce them, but:
    - Avalon. There are rumors that batch 4 of their devices is coming for sell. This might be profitable, it depends on price they will ask for ASICs). But, they fail to ship ordered batch 2 and 3 devices for few months now. I would invest in batch #4 only after confirmations here on forum that batch #2 and #3 devices are delivered.
    - Butterfly Labs. Only few people recently have received orders from last year. And it is unknown when everybody else will receive them. Anyway, it will take months for BFL to ship current orders after they will start, and few more months to process new orders. If you will order ASICs from them now - you can expect to wait at least 4 months before delivery. Good news is that even in this case you should get some profit, but expect at least another 4 months for roi.
    - KNCminer. They seems to be legit, but no working device prototype is shown yet. Good news is that they promise to start delivering products in autumn, with instant delivery of new orders.
    - ASICminer. They sell ASICs with instant delivery, but roi for them is smth like a year in a best case, do not mess with this.
    - Custom created mining devices from chips (Avalon and BFL produce and sell chips with btc calculation logic, but electronic boards are not sold for them). It's kinda tricky. Companies with certified engineers spend months trying to create working boards that will work with these chips. And some people promise to do the same in their garage. I can't believe they can do this so easily. Anyway, you can search this forum for topics where people sell complete clones of Avalon devices and order, I think these devices will be worth it.
    - everything else is a scam, if will not be proven else.

So, I would do smth like this:
1) Buy all custom created Avalon copies from this forum
2) Invest half of money left into Butterfly Labs (50%)
3) Wait for Avalon actions. If Avalon will ship devices from batches #2 and #3, and will start to sell batch #4 - I would invest half of money left (25%)
4) Wait for KNCminer actions. If they will start to ship existing orders, with minimal delay before shipping new orders - I would invest all money thet left (25%)