Historic Cryptogenic Bullion thread - CLOSED

[IMZ]

Net thing driving me nuts!

There is a 'list of proof of stake coins' on bitcointalk.

Mark, Australia

[papersheepdog]

Net thing driving me nuts!

There is a 'list of proof of stake coins' on bitcointalk.

Mark, Australia

I mean, CGB just passed a milestone while entering its permanent long term inflation target. What other coins have also done so? We could look through lists and calculate each one to see where it's at in its life cycle but that will take a long time. Was hoping others might just know other coins in the same boat. Do your neighbors all have the same internet issues? Maybe they know some better way?

[BTCat]

Don't be fooled by the pricedip, only about 1% of all existing CGB's have been sold this cheap during the past month on cryptsy.  

edit: It's a rough estimation I made perhaps not very exact but you can check the charts for more precise info.

[shtako]

Don't be fooled by the pricedip, only about 1% of all existing CGB's have been sold this cheap during the past month on cryptsy. 

True. It would only cost 2,31 BTC to buy the 100 lowest sell orders on cryptsy (5763,2cgb). And that would bring the price up 61,7%. 

[papersheepdog]

I just got an idea but I'm not sure if its a great one

Maybe it exists already. Has anyone heard of a guide to analysing cryptocurrencies?

All the specs, what they mean, different technologies and maybe a tech tree of their relevance in the big picture. This should in no way get into specific examples or data. I could see this as being useful for investors to better understand what sets CGB apart. It would also likely make its way into the CryptoTown project as a major component.

I have no time right now for anything like that so I'm just throwing it out there. Cheers!

papersheepdog, Canada

[papersheepdog]

Interesting article, quite technical (centralization vs decentralization) "Networks vs. Hierarchies: Which Will Win? Niall Furguson Weighs In" - Michael Krieger

I challenge anyone to get through that in one sitting. I am only half way through. You can also skip to the end for a really cool video : Bitcoin threatens kleptocracy and through that bitcoin saves capitalism with Andreas Antonopoulos.

Wow I never paid attention or noticed but that guy is a machine. Total topic ownership.

edit: another cool article.

papersheepdog, Canada

[IMZ]

Wheeeee!!!!!! In town. Got Net.

One: IndiaMikeZulu, PSD, is struggling to catch up on some projects that were sidelined by months of Good Samaritan work -- and one was a Theory of Crypto-Price Analysis. Interestingly, I was gonna ask for opionons today on this:

http://www.coindesk.com/trend-spotting-identify-trends-bitcoin-price-charts/

We have been discussing a 'thinkatorium' -- a day-trading enterprise -- for a year or more now. There is too much data for one person. We are libertarians, so we tend to look for mutually beneficial alliances. Members of the thinkatorium don't need to be physically together. It's a matter of checking the quality of data: the answer is the quality of data. Then you share that data with people you trust (and you guys can see how this would run in parallel with our Big Picture idea of a consultancy).

Two: Comments, please: ten minutes ago, I was talking to my trader about analysing this: Bitcoin and Friends drop in price on the spot when bad news surfaces -- arrest of Dread Pirate, The China Thing, Gox -- but it doesn't spike on good news. For example, acceptance by Dell computers is great news.

Mark, Australia

[BTCat]

2. Trust comes on foot and leaves on a horseback.

Adoption doesn't necesarily raise the price on shortterm, it would be based on hype and enthousiasm which is often full of empty air, it's about real usage, spending and saving longterm. Someone buys a bitcoin, buys a computer, Dell sells a bitcoin, it could even out and do nothing to the price. But they may want to hold a reserve so could be selling a little less bitcoins than they receive. If all customers also keep a little extra in the wallet... it all adds up and slowly makes less btc available on the market. Ofcourse all the news that comes out around the big company helps to attract more people to learn about bitcoin, plus offering 10% discount when using btc is like a honeypot. It does take time to grow. Many pumpage is proven false and the prices get kicked back to where it should be based on natural growth.

[papersheepdog]

Two: Comments, please: ten minutes ago, I was talking to my trader about analysing this: Bitcoin and Friends drop in price on the spot when bad news surfaces -- arrest of Dread Pirate, The China Thing, Gox -- but it doesn't spike on good news. For example, acceptance by Dell computers is great news.

Mark, Australia

2. Trust comes on foot and leaves on a horseback.

Adoption doesn't necesarily raise the price on shortterm, it would be based on hype and enthousiasm which is often full of empty air, it's about real usage, spending and saving longterm. Someone buys a bitcoin, buys a computer, Dell sells a bitcoin, it could even out and do nothing to the price. But they may want to hold a reserve so could be selling a little less bitcoins than they receive. If all customers also keep a little extra in the wallet... it all adds up and slowly makes less btc available on the market. Ofcourse all the news that comes out around the big company helps to attract more people to learn about bitcoin, plus offering 10% discount when using btc is like a honeypot. It does take time to grow. Many pumpage is proven false and the prices get kicked back to where it should be based on natural growth.

Agreed. It could even be price negative depending on how they are accepting the Bitcoin. If its being sold for fiat immediately, this could actually provide a negative price pressure to balance the positive news.

Getting hammered on bad news and hearing crickets on good news is something that reminds me of the gold and silver markets since the spike in 2011. It has been nothing but a managed decline since using a similar pattern. It's hard to say anything for sure, but we can almost safely assume that anything which can be manipulated at this point, is manipulated out of necessity. As with most things in our society right now, its 100x more important that something looks good, than actually is good. As we are on the edge of dollar collapse and the rise of the next big monetary system, its important to the kleptocracy (see video posted just above ) that the existing infrastructure be made to look attractive, while all alternatives like gold, silver, and CGB are hammered to simply look bad.

papersheepdog, Canada

[digit]

I emailed about CGB to added to Crypto-Trade, they have just finished a complete upgrade/makeover after 1 year of operation and the new CryptoTrade v2 is looking fantastic.  

Got a reply and they said CGB will be added to their new voting page. Only 2 coins so far to vote on and I think they are just there so it wasnt empty .  



One HUGE benefit with CT is that verification is neither asked for or required for users to trade FIAT, so if enough support could be found a potential CGB/USD could be added in addition to a CGB/BTC (they already offer BC/USD, LTC/USD, CINNI/USD to name a few).

They also have a commission free voucher system that allows creation of a voucher code instead of withdrawing to address.  eg: i can "withdraw" to generated code 2 CGB, give that code to someone, later on they can redeem the full value of the code I made for them to their CT account instantly.  

Some other features of CryptoTrade are its messaging system, Securities/Investment platform, and an API.  

Winning altcoin gets added next week I believe, so CGB has a great chance right now to be added on established exchange with some great features and benefits not found elsewhere.

[elambert]

I emailed about CGB to added to Crypto-Trade, they have just finished a complete upgrade/makeover after 1 year of operation and the new CryptoTrade v2 is looking fantastic.  

Got a reply and they said CGB will be added to their new voting page. Only 2 coins so far to vote on and I think they are just there so it wasnt empty .  



One HUGE benefit with CT is that verification is neither asked for or required for users to trade FIAT, so if enough support could be found a potential CGB/USD could be added in addition to a CGB/BTC (they already offer BC/USD, LTC/USD, CINNI/USD to name a few).

They also have a commission free voucher system that allows creation of a voucher code instead of withdrawing to address.  eg: i can "withdraw" to generated code 2 CGB, give that code to someone, later on they can redeem the full value of the code I made for them to their CT account instantly.  

Some other features of CryptoTrade are its messaging system, Securities/Investment platform, and an API.  

Winning altcoin gets added next week I believe, so CGB has a great chance right now to be added on established exchange with some great features and benefits not found elsewhere.

Thanks digit! I have not used Crypto-Trade, but your recommendation speaks volumes. Please let us know when voting for CGB opens and we will rally to make this happen.

[IMZ]

Wheeee!!!
Yesterday sold silver bullion bar for CGB,  and bought beer and meat with CGB. Go, us!

Anecdote: had amazing conversation six months ago with a local accountant. He thought I was nuts. He recently visited the US. Now is a covert.
This morning I explained that indiamikezulu are actually 'altcoiners' Then he watched while I traded some cgb on cryptsy. Was amazed.

Mark, Australia

Ps: yes, Btcat. You are right.

[forzendiablo]

scam coin since new 'devs' tookover.

stay away!

[patmast3r]

Wheeee!!!
Yesterday sold silver bullion bar for CGB...

Gotta hurt to look at the price today 

[FiniteByDesign]

Wheeee!!!
Yesterday sold silver bullion bar for CGB,  and bought beer and meat with CGB. Go, us!

Anecdote: had amazing conversation six months ago with a local accountant. He thought I was nuts. He recently visited the US. Now is a covert.
This morning I explained that indiamikezulu are actually 'altcoiners' Then he watched while I traded some cgb on cryptsy. Was amazed.

Mark, Australia

Ps: yes, Btcat. You are right.

Sounds like persistence has paid off IMZ! I would like to support and reward this effort by donating one of my physical Cryptogenic Bullion bars made out of 1 troy ounce of .999 fine silver to the IMZ team for resale, funding, showcasing, whatever allocation you decide. This is one of only 50 in existence so not many in circulation or available for purchase. Please email or pm me a shipping address and I will get the CGB bar packed and traveling! My email is finitebydesign@gmail.com

[elambert]

I emailed about CGB to added to Crypto-Trade, they have just finished a complete upgrade/makeover after 1 year of operation and the new CryptoTrade v2 is looking fantastic.  

Got a reply and they said CGB will be added to their new voting page. Only 2 coins so far to vote on and I think they are just there so it wasnt empty .  



One HUGE benefit with CT is that verification is neither asked for or required for users to trade FIAT, so if enough support could be found a potential CGB/USD could be added in addition to a CGB/BTC (they already offer BC/USD, LTC/USD, CINNI/USD to name a few).

They also have a commission free voucher system that allows creation of a voucher code instead of withdrawing to address.  eg: i can "withdraw" to generated code 2 CGB, give that code to someone, later on they can redeem the full value of the code I made for them to their CT account instantly.  

Some other features of CryptoTrade are its messaging system, Securities/Investment platform, and an API.  

Winning altcoin gets added next week I believe, so CGB has a great chance right now to be added on established exchange with some great features and benefits not found elsewhere.

Looks like voting has opened for CGB! Next coin to be added will be Aug 3rd. Let's get voting!!! You need 3 trades to vote and then can vote once every hour https://crypto-trade.com/voting

[coininvestor]

The wallet seems to use 3% of my cpu (a Haswell). Not minting, 7/8 connections.
Is it supposed to? Or a feature to be ironed out?

It's in the OP:
"To qualify for interest an investor must keep their funds unspent in their wallets for a minimum of 30 days (for 1.2% interest), and up to a maximum of 90 days (1.5% interest)."
You don't need to have the wallet open all period, just keep your coins in.

But maybe something as simple as a competition where people post screens shots where they have solved a POS block, and a random winner is picked for a prize?

I like this idea of promoting minting from POS. The more coins in personal wallets the better. Banks provide some interest on savings but now crypto's can perfectly do this too, people should be more aware of this so they can store more of their 'money' in other ways. Not put all in one basket they say and a bank is just one basket.

I thought another payment provider for crypto's, but it does something else, seems to work with Coinpayments: http://www.picca.co.uk/
Btw has updated design and all, looking good: https://www.coinpayments.net

Development Workshop - CGB PoW/PoS Hybrid Security Model - Protocol Improvements

Please also see the Reddit post for further discussion.

PoS security participation is a very important consideration. The next client rebalances the minimum times to 1 week (1.2%) and 30 days (1.5%), but of course discussion is ongoing. The intent of this is to bring in more PoS blocks. This, combined with merged mining on the PoW side (hybrid) should provide for a more robust security stance.

I had another idea that we could have the protocol reward all unclaimed interest at each block to the winner of the minting process. So they would receive the standard 1.2 or 1.5%, plus the interest accumulation for that block (or tick), of all wallets who are sitting yet again unclaimed while already at max return. Some fundamentals: Currently CGB rewards 1.5% every 90 days, or quarterly. If we wait for a year to mint, we will only receive one quarter's interest, even though we saved it for a year.

In this scenario, that interest that could have been claimed for the other 3/4 of the year will have gone to active participants as a greater reward, without diminishing the *intended* inflationary profile of CGB. In the current environment, we know that all coins are not being used for minting. This affects the 1.5% (out of 2% total) of our target inflation. I am sure the exact data can be pulled from the blockchain (and would encourage anyone capable to give it a try). So we can say for sure that this measure would increase inflation, from whatever its at (likely below 1.2% I would guess), to the intended range of between 1.2 and 1.5% depending on which timeline is more popular.

This is a small detail but CGB was mined into existence, with a flow still being produced via PoW security. We now take this existing CGB and create new CGB in the form of interest. The parallel with gold and silver coin production here is why I prefer to use the term "minting," but staking is OK too. An interesting thing to note about PoS minting is that the interest provided is what they call a zero sum game. This means that for a real increase in the value of your holdings, someone else had to not mint their coins, thus giving you relatively more. In other words, if everyone got 1.5% interest, the relative value of all holdings would remain unchanged.

If a system like this were to be implemented, we could see a real boost in payoffs for winning a PoS block. It may even spur competition to spread the most coin age across available blocks to try and win more blocks, and not just focus on your plain interest. I think we could see bigger wallets broken down to competitive sizes. Hmm... Had not yet thought this part through too much yet. Suggestions welcome.

Pros and cons of adjusting the reward itself have been discussed here.

papersheepdog, Canada

I am confused now and forgive me if this has been asked a million times before but is the 1.5% interest per year or per quarter?  You said in the above post that Currently CGB rewards 1.5% every 90 days, or quarterly, but I have read elsewhere that interest is 1.5% annually.  If it were 1.5% quarterly then that is more like 6% annually.  So just to be clear, if I left my wallet open and staking continually what would the interest be?  My next question is if the interest is only 1.5% per year, is there a reason why it is so low.  What would be the advantage to me as an investor investing in CGB over a coin which offers 5% or 10% per year?

[shtako]

The wallet seems to use 3% of my cpu (a Haswell). Not minting, 7/8 connections.
Is it supposed to? Or a feature to be ironed out?

It's in the OP:
"To qualify for interest an investor must keep their funds unspent in their wallets for a minimum of 30 days (for 1.2% interest), and up to a maximum of 90 days (1.5% interest)."
You don't need to have the wallet open all period, just keep your coins in.

But maybe something as simple as a competition where people post screens shots where they have solved a POS block, and a random winner is picked for a prize?

I like this idea of promoting minting from POS. The more coins in personal wallets the better. Banks provide some interest on savings but now crypto's can perfectly do this too, people should be more aware of this so they can store more of their 'money' in other ways. Not put all in one basket they say and a bank is just one basket.

I thought another payment provider for crypto's, but it does something else, seems to work with Coinpayments: http://www.picca.co.uk/
Btw has updated design and all, looking good: https://www.coinpayments.net

Development Workshop - CGB PoW/PoS Hybrid Security Model - Protocol Improvements

Please also see the Reddit post for further discussion.

PoS security participation is a very important consideration. The next client rebalances the minimum times to 1 week (1.2%) and 30 days (1.5%), but of course discussion is ongoing. The intent of this is to bring in more PoS blocks. This, combined with merged mining on the PoW side (hybrid) should provide for a more robust security stance.

I had another idea that we could have the protocol reward all unclaimed interest at each block to the winner of the minting process. So they would receive the standard 1.2 or 1.5%, plus the interest accumulation for that block (or tick), of all wallets who are sitting yet again unclaimed while already at max return. Some fundamentals: Currently CGB rewards 1.5% every 90 days, or quarterly. If we wait for a year to mint, we will only receive one quarter's interest, even though we saved it for a year.

In this scenario, that interest that could have been claimed for the other 3/4 of the year will have gone to active participants as a greater reward, without diminishing the *intended* inflationary profile of CGB. In the current environment, we know that all coins are not being used for minting. This affects the 1.5% (out of 2% total) of our target inflation. I am sure the exact data can be pulled from the blockchain (and would encourage anyone capable to give it a try). So we can say for sure that this measure would increase inflation, from whatever its at (likely below 1.2% I would guess), to the intended range of between 1.2 and 1.5% depending on which timeline is more popular.

This is a small detail but CGB was mined into existence, with a flow still being produced via PoW security. We now take this existing CGB and create new CGB in the form of interest. The parallel with gold and silver coin production here is why I prefer to use the term "minting," but staking is OK too. An interesting thing to note about PoS minting is that the interest provided is what they call a zero sum game. This means that for a real increase in the value of your holdings, someone else had to not mint their coins, thus giving you relatively more. In other words, if everyone got 1.5% interest, the relative value of all holdings would remain unchanged.

If a system like this were to be implemented, we could see a real boost in payoffs for winning a PoS block. It may even spur competition to spread the most coin age across available blocks to try and win more blocks, and not just focus on your plain interest. I think we could see bigger wallets broken down to competitive sizes. Hmm... Had not yet thought this part through too much yet. Suggestions welcome.

Pros and cons of adjusting the reward itself have been discussed here.

papersheepdog, Canada

I am confused now and forgive me if this has been asked a million times before but is the 1.5% interest per year or per quarter?  You said in the above post that Currently CGB rewards 1.5% every 90 days, or quarterly, but I have read elsewhere that interest is 1.5% annually.  If it were 1.5% quarterly then that is more like 6% annually.  So just to be clear, if I left my wallet open and staking continually what would the interest be?  My next question is if the interest is only 1.5% per year, is there a reason why it is so low.  What would be the advantage to me as an investor investing in CGB over a coin which offers 5% or 10% per year?

1,5% i annually, but to achive it you must mint when the coin age is exactly 90 days. If you mint every 30 days you get 1% annual interest.

If a coin have 10%, 100% or 1,5% annually POS interest is completely irrelevant. Your total % of the money supply will be the same either way. But you will problably be much better of with CGB and 1,5% since there will be fewer people minting for that low interest. With fewer minting your total % of the money supply will increase.

[BTCat]

If a coin have 10%, 100% or 1,5% annually POS interest is completely irrelevant. Your total % of the money supply will be the same either way. But you will problably be much better of with CGB and 1,5% since there will be fewer people minting for that low interest. With fewer minting your total % of the money supply will increase.

Coins that give stake 5% or more annually or even more, those coinprices will sink just as hard and you will end up with a loss. It's designed to look attractive to invest in but in the end you risk it all. The most extreme example of this is probably CENT that was sort of a joke coin (not for everyone), it staked like 1000% per month, total coins around in the end was 43 trillion I recall and the price went to the lowest LTCsat or even lower paired with DOGE.
Some people say the low stake % is not attractive, I say it's quite the opposite because there won't be as many coins minted and the coin becomes more rare so the price can actually rise while people are staking. So CGB has 1.5% annual growth from POS and 0.5% from POW. I think it's gonna be very rewarding to hold this coin longterm and many CGB'ers understand this. People currently selling at this pricelevel are fools giving away their investment for peanuts.

[elambert]

Cryptogenic Bullion interview posted!
http://bitcoinist.net/cryptogenic-bullion-the-investors-crypto/