Bitcoin vs. Gold Prices

[Hell-raiser]

Strictly speaking, the demand for physical gold is pretty resilient but let's remember that over 50% of all gold is used in jewelry today, not for investment purposes. So even if interest for gold as investment is on the wane overall, the lack of interest might not heavily affect the prices at the end of the day. On the other hand, there is a huge market of gold derivatives, which are sometimes called paper gold. Paper gold allows to increase the volatility of gold price, and those who are not looking into long-term or even life-time investments in gold can do pretty well with paper gold.

I am very much against paper gold.

In the short term, if you want to play the game against sharp, experienced professionals with deep pockets who are implicitly backed by the state-bank elites, ie bullion banks and investment banks, you're free to lose your money!

In the long run, paper gold is not worth the same amount of toilet paper (since the latter has a good use,) since there's a lot more paper than the physical gold that the paper claims it reserves for you.  Of course, this is all legal, since I'm sure the elites make sure of that.  The fine print basically says, when it comes time to win big, you don't get to win.  (That is, when conditions are such that gold really goes crazy up.)

This is like playing poker, where you invest some money in a hand that, although having only a small chance to win, will win big when things do work out.  But in the case of paper gold, it's precisely this scenario that you can't collect (or at least not collect nearly enough to justify the bet.)

All paper will burn.

Actually, in most cases you can't even have gold derivatives long term because they typically expire after a certain period of time. Here I refer to gold futures as well as options and likely gold ETFs too, though I'm not sure about the latter. With futures, for example, you can of course roll over the contracts for the next month, but you will have to pay a price difference which is about a few percent, so-called contango. This may not look like a big deal at first, but in real life you will be losing constantly, each month. It is like house edge in gambling if you know what I mean. This is not so much about playing against experienced professionals with deep pockets as playing against the system itself.

[bryant.coleman]

Bitcoin until now still more profitable more than gold. For me, for invest I will choose bitcoin and the second gold.
I invest bitcoin and gold, but I see bitcoin increase faster than gold. We can also get bitcoin from campaign.

Bitcoin gave almost 15x returns in 2017, while gold gave less than 10% returns to those who invested in it. But then, in 2018 (till now) bitcoin is having negative returns (30% to 40%), while gold is having a positive return.

[berungan]

Bitcoin's soaring price has earned him the status of digital gold. However, the price determined by market speculation makes it an investment that is not risk-free.
While gold, this glorious Metal spread all over the world, applies and can be traded in any country, although not created by a real figure. Gold is available in limited quantities, and this is what causes price increases over time.

[Rony24h7]

Gold is a very expensive material at this moment but it was not as much expensive at some years ago but nowadays it is so much expensive and many people buy this thing for only secure their money because they know that it will bring profit at future and it is not a damaging thing so that there is no chance to loose anything from this thing.
On the other hand bitcoin is a online electric data and no one can use it physically. When it starts its way that time people call it shitcoin because of its facilities and price but now a days it is so much expensive and people can earn more money from it that gold and its price is going higher and higher day by day. Forasmuch both of them are fully different thing and people chooses them with different ways so that it is good to not mix them with one another but we can say without any problem that both of them are so much valuable.

[BobK71]

At large, I agree that with US Treasury bonds you are as safe as the government which issues them. If it gets kicked out for whatever reason, these bonds won't be worth the paper they are printed on, metaphorically speaking. Nevertheless, if we care about inflation only discarding the possibility of default by the government on their "promises", we can buy Treasury inflation-protected securities, also known as TIPS. Their principal is tied to the inflation rate, more specifically the Consumer Price Index, so with these securities you are sort of protected from inflation. It is just that most people want more than that.

There's a big grey area between a store of value and outright default.  Certainly, the nature of the government has a lot to do with the performance of its debt.  What applies universally is that the incentives for the elites are to maximize the debt issuance and to inflate away their debt over the long term.

The consumer price index is known to be manipulated to show lower figures over the decades.  Even if it was accurate, it would only reflect consumer price inflation, not asset price inflation which is much higher.  Consumer prices are artificially suppressed by various financial-repression measures jointly put in by the elites of the US and developing countries to prop up the dollar.  Among all the paper wealth created by central banks, governments and 'markets', eventually at least a large proportion will go into consumer price inflation, one way or another (otherwise, there would be a complete financial meltdown by debt default.)

[BobK71]

We don't need to compare bitcoin and the gold price because they are on the different market and it means that the bitcoin and gold is also different because bitcoin is a digital cryptocurrency or asset so we don't need to mess things up in order to look smart because if you are smart then you know that both are different but both are good asset.

I do think gold and Bitcoin serve similar purposes -- for savers to hedge against central bank issued money and assets based on that money.

Since the incentives for the elites are to issue a lot of fiat money, debt, and other assets, and then to inflate them away, the thesis is that non-state-issued monies like gold and Bitcoin become the store of value, over the long term.

[BobK71]

Actually, in most cases you can't even have gold derivatives long term because they typically expire after a certain period of time. Here I refer to gold futures as well as options and likely gold ETFs too, though I'm not sure about the latter. With futures, for example, you can of course roll over the contracts for the next month, but you will have to pay a price difference which is about a few percent, so-called contango. This may not look like a big deal at first, but in real life you will be losing constantly, each month. It is like house edge in gambling if you know what I mean. This is not so much about playing against experienced professionals with deep pockets as playing against the system itself.

For long-term play, there are gold ETFs, and also gold accounts in state-owned banks (such as China offers its citizens.)

The latter are really a minor form of gold standard (except that state-issued claims on gold are denominated in weight rather than currency units.)  The history of all gold standards is that they collapse as the authorities run out of the physical stuff to redeem paper claims.  And gold ETFs don't even have the state behind them!

[AK47-]

Well comparing gold to bitcoin can teach us another thing about the so called Bitcoin 'bubble'. A currency is just something what we attach value to. Your shopkeeper accepts a dollar because he can further use for his own purposes; it is 'valuable' to him. This is the subjective value of a dollar. Similarly, gold has been the oldest currency since forever, making it is safe and stable. Therefore it has subjective value but no real intrinsic value as it has very few credible uses. Similarly people saying bitcoin has no intrinsic value need to realize if bitcoin stays afloat after a few years and surviving some financial crisis, it won't need any intrinsic value.

[Hell-raiser]

At large, I agree that with US Treasury bonds you are as safe as the government which issues them. If it gets kicked out for whatever reason, these bonds won't be worth the paper they are printed on, metaphorically speaking. Nevertheless, if we care about inflation only discarding the possibility of default by the government on their "promises", we can buy Treasury inflation-protected securities, also known as TIPS. Their principal is tied to the inflation rate, more specifically the Consumer Price Index, so with these securities you are sort of protected from inflation. It is just that most people want more than that.

There's a big grey area between a store of value and outright default.  Certainly, the nature of the government has a lot to do with the performance of its debt.  What applies universally is that the incentives for the elites are to maximize the debt issuance and to inflate away their debt over the long term.

The consumer price index is known to be manipulated to show lower figures over the decades.  Even if it was accurate, it would only reflect consumer price inflation, not asset price inflation which is much higher.  Consumer prices are artificially suppressed by various financial-repression measures jointly put in by the elites of the US and developing countries to prop up the dollar.  Among all the paper wealth created by central banks, governments and 'markets', eventually at least a large proportion will go into consumer price inflation, one way or another (otherwise, there would be a complete financial meltdown by debt default.)

Honestly, I don't think there should be significant difference between asset price inflation and consumer price inflation, at least not in the long term. It may be so that CPI is somewhat lagging behind PPI but on long enough timeframes they should follow each other pretty close. Besides, the inflation reports can be rigged year in and year out, but you simply can't rig them year after year since the cumulative discrepancy would be too obvious for everyone to notice and point a finger at the government.

[Md.Sufian]

Bitcoin is worth a lot. Currently bitcoin is a low price. But the demand of the current market is widespread. So it is currently the best. And the price of gold is very high. Since then, the demand has remained the same as before. But gold is weaker than Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is worth more .

[Fulmand]

At large, I agree that with US Treasury bonds you are as safe as the government which issues them. If it gets kicked out for whatever reason, these bonds won't be worth the paper they are printed on, metaphorically speaking. Nevertheless, if we care about inflation only discarding the possibility of default by the government on their "promises", we can buy Treasury inflation-protected securities, also known as TIPS. Their principal is tied to the inflation rate, more specifically the Consumer Price Index, so with these securities you are sort of protected from inflation. It is just that most people want more than that.

There's a big grey area between a store of value and outright default.  Certainly, the nature of the government has a lot to do with the performance of its debt.  What applies universally is that the incentives for the elites are to maximize the debt issuance and to inflate away their debt over the long term.

The consumer price index is known to be manipulated to show lower figures over the decades.  Even if it was accurate, it would only reflect consumer price inflation, not asset price inflation which is much higher.  Consumer prices are artificially suppressed by various financial-repression measures jointly put in by the elites of the US and developing countries to prop up the dollar.  Among all the paper wealth created by central banks, governments and 'markets', eventually at least a large proportion will go into consumer price inflation, one way or another (otherwise, there would be a complete financial meltdown by debt default.)

Honestly, I don't think there should be significant difference between asset price inflation and consumer price inflation, at least not in the long term. It may be so that CPI is somewhat lagging behind PPI but on long enough timeframes they should follow each other pretty close. Besides, the inflation reports can be rigged year in and year out, but you simply can't rig them year after year since the cumulative discrepancy would be too obvious for everyone to notice and point a finger at the government.

I think the difference bitcoin gold and bitcoin is the price the unstable price of bitcoin makes bitcoin a  berry popular asset of gaining because everyday we  can really have an opportunity of gaining through buy  selling process i believe that bitcoin is more profitable than gold on investing process of gaining because gold is always in a high price status and it is almost stable.

[dzhan]

Gold prices are a lot more stable than Bitcoin's prices. Bitcoin (and crypto) prices are known by volatility, while gold is trusted by a large community of people and then its price is somehow stable. But in the other hand , Bitcoin's price is going up faster than gold and the similar physical assets.

[Granxis]

If you think that gold price has decreased by 33% within a week, I think the world economy was experiencing great chaos. We are living the same chaos now, Bitcoin will come to its former value. Just buying is not enough We need to believe in Bitcoin's power.

[MiF]

Gold prices are a lot more stable than Bitcoin's prices. Bitcoin (and crypto) prices are known by volatility, while gold is trusted by a large community of people and then its price is somehow stable. But in the other hand , Bitcoin's price is going up faster than gold and the similar physical assets.

Well I believe that bitcoin is really profitable than gold in terms of investing or maybe trading because the price of the bitcoin can really go down and it is really a great opportunity to buy and sell in the near future to earn a lot of  profit while in gold we really need a huge amount of capital because it is really almost at the high status of price which makes it so expensive in terms of gaining process.So then i believe that bitcoin is better than gold.

[Twinscoin2017]

Gold prices are a lot more stable than Bitcoin's prices. Bitcoin (and crypto) prices are known by volatility, while gold is trusted by a large community of people and then its price is somehow stable. But in the other hand , Bitcoin's price is going up faster than gold and the similar physical assets.

Well I believe that bitcoin is really profitable than gold in terms of investing or maybe trading because the price of the bitcoin can really go down and it is really a great opportunity to buy and sell in the near future to earn a lot of  profit while in gold we really need a huge amount of capital because it is really almost at the high status of price which makes it so expensive in terms of gaining process.So then i believe that bitcoin is better than gold.

Yes I agree on that I also reffer in bitcoin than gold because we can really have many more opportunity in bitcoin due to the unstable price which is really good for buy and selling process of gaining  because we are really need to have more extra income thus time around and gold may not have the opportunity that we need because gold may count a year before its price change and it is really expensive because it is  almost always at the high price status.So then I believe that bitcoin is more amazing than gold.

[darewaller]

Bitcoin is worth a lot. Currently bitcoin is a low price. But the demand of the current market is widespread. So it is currently the best. And the price of gold is very high. Since then, the demand has remained the same as before. But gold is weaker than Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is worth more .

To be sincere, Gold is more expensive that Bitcoin. Although I don’t know the market cap of Gold, but I believe that the market cap of gold is worth more than the market cap of Bitcoin, so Gold is worth more than Bitcoin. And you shouldn’t compare them, cause the world has known Gold for a long time now, while Bitcoin is just for a few years. So people trusts Gold more than they do Bitcoin and they also believe that Gold will earn them more than Bitcoin, because they don’t anything about Bitcoin. But that doesn’t make me go for Gold, Bitcoin is still my number one.

[budakjawa]

in my opinion bitcoin is still a champion and very profitable than gold, the total supply that bitcoin possesses is definitely less than gold and it will definitely make bitcoin prices very easy to rise and fall in contrast to the gold that its availability is unlimited.

[Lubang Bawah]

in my opinion bitcoin is still a champion and very profitable than gold, the total supply that bitcoin possesses is definitely less than gold and it will definitely make bitcoin prices very easy to rise and fall in contrast to the gold that its availability is unlimited.

If the size is a profit then bitcoin is better than anything, we all know that bitcoin increase reaches more than 1500% and bitcoin is the most profitable thing, and if we want to get the same thing then buy now will be profitable in the next few months.

[BobK71]

Honestly, I don't think there should be significant difference between asset price inflation and consumer price inflation, at least not in the long term.

This was basically the point I was making.  But over the last two decades plus, rich-world consumer price inflation has been seriously and continuously below asset price inflation.  What do you think has been happening?  And what will happen when the cumulative effect of the difference must eventually be cleared out?  (That is, we have much more asset wealth than the wealth in products and services, at current prices -- these must somehow equalize eventually.)

It may be so that CPI is somewhat lagging behind PPI but on long enough timeframes they should follow each other pretty close. Besides, the inflation reports can be rigged year in and year out, but you simply can't rig them year after year since the cumulative discrepancy would be too obvious for everyone to notice and point a finger at the government.

This seems reasonable, but I'll give you an example.  I've calculated that the price of a basic, cheap, clean motel room in the US over the last 20 years has really risen on average 6% per year, compounded.  Yet the CPI over this period has been 2% in the worst years.  Granted, motel rooms aren't part of the CPI 'basket,' the conclusion I had to draw was that, the public don't really hold the CPI accountable over the long term, since few people carry out and publish calculations like this.  On a year to year basis, the CPI may be a little on the low side.  Over the decades, the cumulative difference is big.

[Hell-raiser]

Honestly, I don't think there should be significant difference between asset price inflation and consumer price inflation, at least not in the long term.

This was basically the point I was making.  But over the last two decades plus, rich-world consumer price inflation has been seriously and continuously below asset price inflation.  What do you think has been happening?  And what will happen when the cumulative effect of the difference must eventually be cleared out?  (That is, we have much more asset wealth than the wealth in products and services, at current prices -- these must somehow equalize eventually.)

But how is it possible? Or rather, what do you mean by asset price inflation? If you mean something like Producers Price Index (PPI), it should in fact be somewhat preceding the consumer price inflation. Consumer prices depend on the costs of production but today's prices of goods are determined by the past prices of raw materials. This is likely the reason why it may look like the PPI is higher than the CPI at a given moment since it lags behind the PPI.

This seems reasonable, but I'll give you an example.  I've calculated that the price of a basic, cheap, clean motel room in the US over the last 20 years has really risen on average 6% per year, compounded.  Yet the CPI over this period has been 2% in the worst years.  Granted, motel rooms aren't part of the CPI 'basket,' the conclusion I had to draw was that, the public don't really hold the CPI accountable over the long term, since few people carry out and publish calculations like this.  On a year to year basis, the CPI may be a little on the low side.  Over the decades, the cumulative difference is big.

If I'm not mistaken, this type of inflation is called Personal Inflation Rate.