My challenge to bitcoin

[Nhebu]

I created a 6 minute youtube video to explain why I don't like bitcoin, but let me sum it up.  I see the us dollar as a debt backed currency.  Banks create money through loans, which are in turn backed by houses, cars, and people's incomes.  Everybody seems to think the us dollar is a faith based, or something, but I don't see it that way.  I see it as a fully backed currency, not too much different from being a gold backed currency.  Where am I wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jujwQkhnoU8

This is way lot confusing post. I tried to read it thrive in real with my eyes wide open. I believe you don't like bitcoin  at all because you think that there is no competition of your USD with the bitcoin in terms of how they are backed up with different assets. Agree on that but it's not completely true. The way it seem easier to manage all those backed assets, but it's not the case in reality. The banks work on the principles of liquid money and it flows multi direction all the team. While on the other hand bitcoin is unidirectional and it just work on the principles of peer to peer transfers. The backing doesn't really matter here because what bitcoin has got is the money that we are pushing into it.

That's my understanding about it. There might be no comparison between to as they have different principle of working.

The OP did not like bitcoin. He stress out how bitcoin differs from fiat currency. Well, in my opinion, how could a fiat get its value just through its backed up assets? Bitcoin becomes valuable because of its usage. It helps the economy also to have a fast and vast transaction. Making a unitary money policy is good at some ways also. So, why do we need to hate this new innovative currency, if it can be a substitute and will be used for a long term purpose?

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[iMark]

You sir clearly don't understand what Bitcoin is. You are correct about the dollar but bitcoin doesn't need to be backed by anything, it just needs to be adopted. And a currency that is decentalized, borderless, and a peer to peer payment system well you can be sure that will get adopted quick.

Yeah you should know from the start, that bitcoin is not backed up by anything, there is no government support, developed economies, or the state. it's a challange for bitcoin itself, and the proof is that bitcoin is a respected currency with its innovation, bitcoin is the world's most expensive currency right now!

[imstillthebest]

You sir clearly don't understand what Bitcoin is. You are correct about the dollar but bitcoin doesn't need to be backed by anything, it just needs to be adopted. And a currency that is decentalized, borderless, and a peer to peer payment system well you can be sure that will get adopted quick.

Yeah you should know from the start, that bitcoin is not backed up by anything, there is no government support, developed economies, or the state. it's a challange for bitcoin itself, and the proof is that bitcoin is a respected currency with its innovation, bitcoin is the world's most expensive currency right now!

if btc is not backed by anything then why do you think that it existed and its value is growing ? that only means that btc is backed by its devs and its also backed us supporters and investors  .

@op you dont like btc , but your making complaints about usd/fiat ? so what do you really want  ?  i already state  that btc is backed by people same as fiat  but btc is just better than fiats imo 

[Naida_BR]

I created a 6 minute youtube video to explain why I don't like bitcoin, but let me sum it up.  I see the us dollar as a debt backed currency.  Banks create money through loans, which are in turn backed by houses, cars, and people's incomes.  Everybody seems to think the us dollar is a faith based, or something, but I don't see it that way.  I see it as a fully backed currency, not too much different from being a gold backed currency.  Where am I wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jujwQkhnoU8

I am trying to find a way of connecting your thoughts.
I agree that the us dollar is fulled from debt as banks give loans to people that would buy houses, cars etc, and when people are not able to pay back their loans they take their houses, cars x2. But how is that connected with Bitcoin? Bitcoin has nothing to do with banks' activities.

[fiulpro]

You know , actually most of the currencies we know about are somehow backed up by something valuable or are based on the economy of the particular country , but when it comes to Bitcoins I think it's the time to shatter most probably the already made assumptions about a Currency , it is actually dependent upon the investors which inturn makes it very volatile which is a good factor for all the traders now.
I think somehow it is also essential for the economy, we have everything , we have gold , dollar , a Currency backed by valuable assets ...I think we need this too.

[Botnake]

You sir clearly don't understand what Bitcoin is. You are correct about the dollar but bitcoin doesn't need to be backed by anything, it just needs to be adopted. And a currency that is decentalized, borderless, and a peer to peer payment system well you can be sure that will get adopted quick.

I agree bitcoin does not need support from the institution or anything. Many people adopt and trust bitcoin because the payment system is very safe, easy and capable of acting as a global currency.

Without institution money we will know grow, currently we are in the stage of development now and soon the market will be regulation.
Trump just announce that he does not like Bitcoin and crypto, that's a good sign that the market is growing, and because we are getting their attention that means they are monitoring the crypto space and I expect soon there will be a fair regulation for the good of the market.

[Wolfwar]

I fully understand those users of cryptocurrency who consider Bitcoin only as a very profitable investment.  Since Bitcoin has a very large volatility, this provides a huge opportunity for generating a large income.  Including even earn good money on the daily Bitcoin trade.  But when the situation with the cryptocurrency in the world changes, it is quite possible that Bitcoin will be used as a means of payment and then the approach to using Bitcoin will really change.

[lumierre]

You sir clearly don't understand what Bitcoin is. You are correct about the dollar but bitcoin doesn't need to be backed by anything, it just needs to be adopted. And a currency that is decentalized, borderless, and a peer to peer payment system well you can be sure that will get adopted quick.

Yeah you should know from the start, that bitcoin is not backed up by anything, there is no government support, developed economies, or the state. it's a challange for bitcoin itself, and the proof is that bitcoin is a respected currency with its innovation, bitcoin is the world's most expensive currency right now!

if btc is not backed by anything then why do you think that it existed and its value is growing ? that only means that btc is backed by its devs and its also backed us supporters and investors  .

@op you dont like btc , but your making complaints about usd/fiat ? so what do you really want  ?  i already state  that btc is backed by people same as fiat  but btc is just better than fiats imo 

It is still an enigma for many people. Nevertheless, I am sure that in a period of 3-6 years, Bitcoin will be adopted in many countries; Europe at least will start using BTC massively.

Now, different states have various policies regarding cryptocurrencies. In some countries, they are legal for payment, somewhere they are a special kind of goods, and somewhere transactions with cryptocurrencies are prohibited.

Finally, BTC will be legal everywhere, I suppose.

[Nellayar]

I just heard this time someone doesn't like bitcoin,
But that is the opinion of each person that surely bitcoin is currently still the priority of all people throughout the world, especially America, even though the price of bitcoin is currently falling.
But I still believe that bitcoin can someday be a for many people.

Actually, I always here about this. The dislikes of the people and even the country in bitcoin is too normal for those people who have served in this forum for long time ago. But I know that all of us are also praying for the bitcoin to be accepted by all of institutions in the world. Yes, maybe someday. People and Government will realized that bitcoin is important.

[silversurfer1958]

Bitcoin is really valuable, but in fact it's an empty business, it's really confusing to me and that certainly happens to you.
I clicked on the link but it seems the video has been deleted. But I think that anyone will have different views on investment. If you don't like bitcoin, focus on investing in alts, which are more valuable than Bitcoin.

[OnceTwiceThird]

I don't care with your opinion disagree with bitcoin, when getting profit I keep invest and trade with bitcoin without take care with situation around my self.

[DaftAjax]

Bitcoin becomes valuable because of its usage. It helps the economy also to have a fast and vast transaction. So, why do we need to hate this new innovative currency, if it can be a substitute and will be used for a long term purpose?

No, It does not help any economy at all, I'm pretty sure Bitcoin is an asset. It can not be a substitute(for now) but rather an alternative, I'm pretty sure you're using Fiat right now and still will for about 10 more years, even more.

Yeah you should know from the start, that bitcoin is not backed up by anything, there is no government support, developed economies, or the state. it's a challange for bitcoin itself, and the proof is that bitcoin is a respected currency with its innovation, bitcoin is the world's most expensive currency right now!

Yes, there's no one backed it up, but there's someone who created it, naming Satoshi Nakamoto(forum username). I'm not sure about the middle part but yes, bitcoin is the most expensive currency (currently).

if btc is not backed by anything then why do you think that it existed and its value is growing ? that only means that btc is backed by its devs and its also backed us supporters and investors  .

@op you dont like btc , but your making complaints about usd/fiat ? so what do you really want  ?  i already state  that btc is backed by people same as fiat  but btc is just better than fiats imo 

It's not per se "backed up" by someone, but rather it is being monitored by us, users. So the direction of its price is influenced by our actions, directly as well as indirectly.

[huige007]

Bitcoin becomes valuable because of its usage. It helps the economy also to have a fast and vast transaction. So, why do we need to hate this new innovative currency, if it can be a substitute and will be used for a long term purpose?

No, It does not help any economy at all, I'm pretty sure Bitcoin is an asset. It can not be a substitute(for now) but rather an alternative, I'm pretty sure you're using Fiat right now and still will for about 10 more years, even more.

Yeah you should know from the start, that bitcoin is not backed up by anything, there is no government support, developed economies, or the state. it's a challange for bitcoin itself, and the proof is that bitcoin is a respected currency with its innovation, bitcoin is the world's most expensive currency right now!

Yes, there's no one backed it up, but there's someone who created it, naming Satoshi Nakamoto(forum username). I'm not sure about the middle part but yes, bitcoin is the most expensive currency (currently).

if btc is not backed by anything then why do you think that it existed and its value is growing ? that only means that btc is backed by its devs and its also backed us supporters and investors  .

@op you dont like btc , but your making complaints about usd/fiat ? so what do you really want  ?  i already state  that btc is backed by people same as fiat  but btc is just better than fiats imo 

It's not per se "backed up" by someone, but rather it is being monitored by us, users. So the direction of its price is influenced by our actions, directly as well as indirectly.

I am also with you in this regard. Nobody owns bitcoin, nobody backs it up. If it was under someone’s control, there wouldn’t have been things like anonymity and freedom of control with the introduction of this asset. Though there are big whales but again they are investors and there actions lay greater impact on the market because there investment amounts are huge. Nothing about this coin can be controlled.

[styca]

Money is an abstraction of value. Bitcoin, gold, US dollar, they are the same in this regard.

Where bitcoin is better than USD is that it is independent of government control. Think about the last big financial crisis, caused by banks being irresponsible and greedy. And who suffered? Not the banks, because the governments bailed them out. Under the fiat system, the rich always benefit. There is risk and reward, but the reward goes disproportionately to the rich and the risk is taken by the poor. This is not remotely fair. And nothing really has been done about it to prevent it happening again. Governments have papered over the cracks, and the debt mountain slowly grows. A new financial crisis is coming, and it will be us ordinary people who suffer again.

So governments f**k up, due to a mixture of greed and incompetence. It has repeated time and time again throughout history. The system is corrupt, and needs to be replaced by something independent and borderless, a
proper grown-up source of value that is fit for the 21st century. In times of fiat crisis in the past, people rush to gold.

Bitcoin is better than fiat, but how is it better than gold? Plenty of reasons. I'll just give a couple. Bitcoin has a finite fixed maximum supply. Gold on the other hand has an unknown limit, and once we start mining asteroids etc, the supply could soar and the value plummet. This is not a risk for bitcoin. What else? Bitcoin is digital and so easily portable, it can't be counterfeited, it has an immutable permanent consensus record of its history. The list goes on. Bitcoin beats fiat and it beats gold. The only problem at the moment is its volatility. Once that eases off as the market matures, bitcoin is primed to replace both fiat and gold as the primary abstracted source of value.

[deisik]

Bitcoin becomes valuable because of its usage. It helps the economy also to have a fast and vast transaction. So, why do we need to hate this new innovative currency, if it can be a substitute and will be used for a long term purpose?

No, It does not help any economy at all, I'm pretty sure Bitcoin is an asset. It can not be a substitute(for now) but rather an alternative, I'm pretty sure you're using Fiat right now and still will for about 10 more years, even more

Opinions vary on this one

For sure, Bitcoin is an asset, and a speculative one at that, for the most part. However, it is still a good value transfer vehicle, and still more so if you don't want to show your wealth to anyone, especially the prying eyes of the government and their greyhounds. It doesn't know borders, so you don't have to bother about ridiculous financial regulations (read, limitations) imposed on international money transfers (which could be a pain in the ass). This is where Bitcoin can be not just a substitute but often the only option available (say, for the unbanked)

[DaftAjax]

For sure, Bitcoin is an asset, and a speculative one at that, for the most part. However, it is still a good value transfer vehicle, and still more so if you don't want to show your wealth to anyone, especially the prying eyes of the government and their greyhounds. It doesn't know borders, so you don't have to bother about ridiculous financial regulations (read, limitations) imposed on international money transfers (which could be a pain in the ass). This is where Bitcoin can be not just a substitute but often the only option available (say, for the unbanked)

I'm really starting to think that you don't like everything that the government requires you to do, and everything about the government trying to do to you.

In the topic "Taxless society idea", we argued about whether society needs to have taxes and a government or not to survive/exist.
Taxless society idea
Taxless society idea
Well, obviously, you said that a society CAN survive/exist without these two elements. But I have something in mind.


And now, you're also leaning on not having, as much as possible, any contact with everything the government needs you to do. Well, I can sympathize with that one (it's a pain in the ass). So, you really value anonymity that much? I was leaning on "transparency" by the government, so that fairness on both parties could be realized (more work for them).

[boltz]

So the fud is back again to bitcoin ? Good , good , let me buy more as I watch guys like you having no idea of what bitcoin really us. Are you upset because you haven't got the chance to buy back in 2013-2014 ? Cause it seems like. In your video , you really don't know what to tell anymore in order to put Bitcoin into a bad spot. If you don't believe in bitcoin , don't speak about it , simple as that and most important don't come to the Bitcoin community to post your video , thanks.

[deisik]

And now, you're also leaning on not having, as much as possible, any contact with everything the government needs you to do

I actually like how well you put that, in a true Orwellian way

I refer to that last piece about "everything the government needs you to do". Needs you to do, huh. In real life, it is more like "do it or otherwise". I leave it to you what kind of punishment you can bring on yourself if you don't

Well, I can sympathize with that one (it's a pain in the ass). So, you really value anonymity that much? I was leaning on "transparency" by the government, so that fairness on both parties could be realized (more work for them)

That's another interesting example

Well, if you ask me (since you ask me anyway), I wouldn't call that "fairness" as it is actually a complete reinvention of the term ("we are 35 years late, but we are well on our way"). Fairness assumes somewhat equal conditions (at least, that's how it feels) but the idea of a government pretty much excludes this assumed equality

Seriously, why should I care about being fair to someone who is supposed to be inferior to me by my own definition and volition? Wouldn't it be a sadistic turn to ask for fairness in these very unfair circumstances? Regarding anonymity, I don't think it is so much an anonymity issue when you just want to move your wealth around hassle-free

I'm really starting to think that you don't like everything that the government requires you to do, and everything about the government trying to do to you

I can't prevent you from thinking that (but you are on your own here)

[DBronze98]

I also agree with you. Even though bitcoin has a high value, do people want to keep it in their pockets or want it to be a common asset for living? People don't worry about it's fluctuating?
Many people believe that bitcoin should be a common currency while the basics of becoming a common currency are also not achieved. So people are delusional or deification of Bitcoin?

[doomistake]

You sir clearly don't understand what Bitcoin is. You are correct about the dollar but bitcoin doesn't need to be backed by anything, it just needs to be adopted. And a currency that is decentalized, borderless, and a peer to peer payment system well you can be sure that will get adopted quick.

It could be that OP think that bitcoin's price was being manipulated by dollars, that is why he came up that he doesn't like bitcoin. OP was just confused about bitcoin and its functions as a digital currency, we can't put the blame on them because the Government never stops creating false statement about bitcoin, and the recent bitcoin ETF was rejected again. We are all having a hard time predicting what is going to happen to us if this bearish market continue, it is worth holding bitcoin or not anymore.