Taxless society idea

[deisik]

For normal citizens, this probably portrays, angel's singing in the background just because they've heard "taxless society". But what about those people who are knowledgeable about how tax really works. And how it saved/developed/enriched mankind from ever-growing. If you compare it to a human being, tax is like "oxygen/food/water", it's the catalysts that lets you live. Imagine tax hasn't been implemented since then? What do you think our society would be like? or does even a society will ever exist

But aren't humans social beings?

Doesn't it mean that human society can exist with neither government sticking around nor taxes being levied? In my opinion, this is a pretty solid assumption with the conclusion being that it is impossible for the government (the state) to exist without taxes. But society can do pretty well on its own since quite a few had existed long before both governments and taxes came about

Indeed, it is valid to ask that we may in fact need a form of government at a certain point in the development of human civilization, but given that we didn't have such a need before (in prehistorical times), there is no plausible reason to think that we will always need it in the future (along with taxes)

I'm sure you're having thoughts on the negative part of taxes, but hey, the good part about it is essential to mankind now and removing/replacing it will lead to crisis, not only an economic crisis but as a whole

It is not the taxes themselves which are at the root of the evil but rather how they are collected and spent that people disagree with

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[Silberman]

As annoying as it may be to admit it, the idea of a society without taxes is a contradiction in terms: a society has by definition common parts, which interest everyone, and which must be maintained with the cooperation of all citizens.
With or without bitcoins.

A certain level of taxation is needed since there are some services that the government needs to provide for the benefit of everyone, the problem comes from the fact that governments begin to abuse the power given to them by the people and begin to charge more taxes so they can become bigger, this creates dependency on the government and they know it but they encourage it since this makes easier to charge even more taxes with the excuse of taxing the rich but eventually a breaking point is reached and the money they get through taxes goes down and that is the first indication of a deep problem for that particular government as they do not know how to function with less money available to them.

[nydiacaskey01]

How it could work Taxless society:

Tax works for us if spent wisely by the government.  We try to pay tax the lowest possible amount legally that's why we keep receipts of everything we think that can reduce our tax. Now if it will be a taxless society and a minimum tax will be taken from an annual basis that government has no control since its Crypto, what will happen to government projects, infrastructure? It will take more time for it to finish because of funding.

[pereira4]

I've always had this idea of a ying-yang system where ying is a deflationary money strictly limited in amount that cannot be counterfeit, shielded from falsification and easy to settle value with and that's Bitcoin. Then you could have the yang, which are inflationary bank notes based upon this reserve asset. Those could be the second layers of Bitcoin, and banks would compete with each other to deliver the best rates. Hal Finney had this idea back in 2009.

As far as taxes goes, as far as there is a government, there will be a need for taxes. Corruption is the problem, but with a system like Bitcoin + second layers for credit, it would be way more morally correct than the hyperinflation unsustainable insanity. Blockchain also allows to know where your tax money goes. Im all about helping the less fortunate through taxes, I just hate being ripped off.

[Btcvilla]

What have to pay taxless but using for other way by government, many country have trouble with Taxless society where taxless money using for not all of people, many person who working in government excatly on taxless using is for their self. Make many people low trusted for paying taxless in some country.

[ivakar]

back to 2002. I was in Dubai, that was the golden time there. I was working in a company situated at Jebel Free Zone and we literally pay no taxes at all.
you have to pay once per year a licence fee for company registration and that's all.
but those times are over, now Dubai also have VAT and other taxes. that means that without taxes a government can't survive

[carlfebz2]

How it could work Taxless society:

Tax works for us if spent wisely by the government.  We try to pay tax the lowest possible amount legally that's why we keep receipts of everything we think that can reduce our tax. Now if it will be a taxless society and a minimum tax will be taken from an annual basis that government has no control since its Crypto, what will happen to government projects, infrastructure? It will take more time for it to finish because of funding.

This is the side effect on having the idea of taxless or minimal tax society where it do mainly affects infrastructure and other development matters and gov't services.
Why people hate tax too much? If you do live on a corrupt country then this one might be a valid reason but if not and if we do saw that our country does progress then
it shouldnt really be an issue.These funds are crucial on countries development it will just depend on how those officials would use it on a proper way.

[AicecreaME]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations. Taxes can be very complex, there are tons of rules that can increase, decrease or even remove taxes for certain situation, meanwhile printing money just affects everyone the same, so this idea is much worse than taxes.

Printing money specially for community purpose and specially for real business is taxless situation not "tax on owning money".
Why would no one want that money if it is a separate part that finances common interest and real business (money created at the time of need)?

Printing money for just community purpose will be no different from the current system where people are just looking at how to avoid or pay less taxes in different ways, which again that earnings from taxes does not end up 100% for the purposes it should go.

The inflation would be the same and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes and the real business sector gets true freedom.

Inflation could be controlled mathematically with issuing and with coin burning.

Printing money is indeed for the community purpose, depending on how much the economy needs, but, we can't print money whenever we feel to do it, it will just increase the inflation rate, believe it or not.

I think that taxless society can be possible with just more transparency and with more math.

Sad to say this but the world economy can't survive without taxes, taxes are the oxygen of the society, without it, we won't have any building structures like cell sites, companies, shopping malls, public transportation, roads, hospitals, you could see it all in the public places, without all of that, we are like living on the stone age because of our greediness about money. Taxes have its own purpose, we just have to understand what is it really for so we won't look like an idiot.

[Argoo]

Our society has been developing for a very long time and not one of them could exist for a long time without fees for common needs, called tax. The idea of ​​a tax-free society is unrealistic. This has long been proven by the history of human development. Society must build roads, pay doctors, teachers and other people who do not produce wealth for their work, maintain their army and much more. Without this, there will be chaos; such a society will easily be swallowed up by a stronger organization in terms of allocating funds for general expenses.

[DaftAjax]

1) But aren't humans social beings?.... But society can do pretty well on its own since quite a few had existed long before both governments and taxes came about

2) Indeed, it is valid to ask that we may in fact need a form of government at a certain point in the development of human civilization, but given that we didn't have such a need before (in prehistorical times), there is no plausible reason to think that we will always need it in the future (along with taxes)

3) It is not the taxes themselves which are at the root of the evil but rather how they are collected and spent that people disagree with

1) I might've mixed up things, what I meant to say is that the country as a whole. But isn't it given that a society is being led by someone(?), thus making it a government(?)

2) So you're saying that in the future, government and tax will not matter in the future(?) How so? Are we talking about Post-Apocalypse here?
    OR you're just saying that there's gonna be a system that surpasses government and tax and that everyone isn't at neither advantage nor disadvantage?

3) Agreed, and the government doesn't have any plans on being transparent either.

[deisik]

1) But aren't humans social beings?.... But society can do pretty well on its own since quite a few had existed long before both governments and taxes came about

2) Indeed, it is valid to ask that we may in fact need a form of government at a certain point in the development of human civilization, but given that we didn't have such a need before (in prehistorical times), there is no plausible reason to think that we will always need it in the future (along with taxes)

3) It is not the taxes themselves which are at the root of the evil but rather how they are collected and spent that people disagree with

1) I might've mixed up things, what I meant to say is that the country as a whole. But isn't it given that a society is being led by someone(?), thus making it a government(?)

Actually, you could say that

And call it a proto-government, leadership, or whatever. But it naturally (as opposed to being forced) comes about only when there is a need for that, i.e. when a certain society becomes too big and complex, making solving issues directly by the consensus prohibitively expensive in terms of effort and time. Thus, they are solved by a group of selected individuals ("government") who are delegated such authority by the consensus. I don't consider the case when this authority is taken by force as we have assumed that it should be natural ("self-inflicted"), not imposed

2) So you're saying that in the future, government and tax will not matter in the future(?) How so? Are we talking about Post-Apocalypse here?

No, I definitely didn't mean the Mad Max scenario

What I meant could be loosely construed as a government-less society, technically, a form of anarchy (but without the lawlessness of the latter). This is mostly a theoretical construct still. No government means no taxes, i.e. what counts as taxes now could then be just a regular price for a service just like any other service out there

[mamahdedeh]

Our society has been developing for a very long time and not one of them could exist for a long time without fees for common needs, called tax. The idea of ​​a tax-free society is unrealistic. This has long been proven by the history of human development. Society must build roads, pay doctors, teachers and other people who do not produce wealth for their work, maintain their army and much more. Without this, there will be chaos; such a society will easily be swallowed up by a stronger organization in terms of allocating funds for general expenses.

tax will be very useful for the justice of a country against its people. with taxes the weak economic community can feel the development of a country, so hopefully they can also develop in their respective fields, so this is inevitable to achieve tax exemption. because a country's biggest financing is in the taxes we pay

[abhiseshakana]

back to 2002. I was in Dubai, that was the golden time there. I was working in a company situated at Jebel Free Zone and we literally pay no taxes at all.
you have to pay once per year a licence fee for company registration and that's all.
but those times are over, now Dubai also have VAT and other taxes. that means that without taxes a government can't survive

It is not quite right to say that the state cannot survive without taxes. A country can survive without tax as long as natural resources can sustain the lives of its people and if the level of dependence on other countries is small. Dubai applies taxes after oil prices fall which causes income to decrease, taxes are applied to overcome the budget deficit because the state subsidizes so that its people enjoy cheap oil. So the application of tax in Dubai is not the only way to overcome the deficit and once the tax application policy was revoked to encourage investment into Dubai.

Diversification of income through taxes is not necessarily effective in every country. With taxes, the state can maintain its independence. Rich or poor countries still need taxes to encourage development and equitable distribution of welfare. Besides that, as I explained before, taxes are loaded with state interests and are used as instruments.

[Silberman]

How it could work Taxless society:

Tax works for us if spent wisely by the government.  We try to pay tax the lowest possible amount legally that's why we keep receipts of everything we think that can reduce our tax. Now if it will be a taxless society and a minimum tax will be taken from an annual basis that government has no control since its Crypto, what will happen to government projects, infrastructure? It will take more time for it to finish because of funding.

It is my opinion that most governments are simply too big, most governments are getting a lot more taxes than what they need to pay for things like infrastructure or services like the police or firefighters, right now governments are trying to redistribute the wealth, but that is a futile exercise because their attempt to do so is really inefficient since most of the money that they get for that purpose is consumed by the government itself and the infrastructure they have created to redistribute that wealth.

[Pearls Before Swine]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations.

And that isn't the only problem.  Not that I entirely understand op's proposal, but I don't think any crypto regardless of how its structured, can do away with tax funded state services.  There's a good reason why this model has been around for centuries, and I am a firm believer that citizens are overtaxed in general.  The taxes we pay are used to pay for a wide variety of things that would not get paid for otherwise.  Roads, schools, the military, etc.

On top of all that, gov'ts haven't exactly been overly enthusiastic about the blockchain revolution or even of bitcoin.  They aren't likely to adopt a crypto model in order to do away with taxes.  Sorry to pop your bubble, op, but it isn't going to happen in your lifetime and probably not at all, ever.

[ecnalubma]

Taxless society will result to chaos and printing more money is not a solution to consider. "Tax is thief" yet but if spend in a proper way by the government we will experience convenience in our society. Taxes cannot be remove, a country depends on it to build infrastructures, schools and hospitals etc. Taxes are only burden if it takes huge percentage of your income but if the government is earning enough through its controlled companies then they will take less from you.

[Genemind]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

[matchi2011]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

[Silberman]

Taxless society will result to chaos and printing more money is not a solution to consider. "Tax is thief" yet but if spend in a proper way by the government we will experience convenience in our society. Taxes cannot be remove, a country depends on it to build infrastructures, schools and hospitals etc. Taxes are only burden if it takes huge percentage of your income but if the government is earning enough through its controlled companies then they will take less from you.

Personally I do not subscribe to the taxation is theft theory, some level of taxation is needed to maintain the services we all need, but there are currently two huge problems, the first one is that the level of taxation is too high and this is slowing down the economy and the second is that the laws in place are too complex, paying your taxes is too difficult and there are too many exceptions, in my opinion the system needs to be simplified and governments needs to get smaller for the economy to recover.

[DaftAjax]

And call it a proto-government, leadership, or whatever. But it naturally (as opposed to being forced) comes about only when there is a need for that, i.e. when a certain society becomes too big and complex, making solving issues directly by the consensus prohibitively expensive in terms of effort and time. Thus, they are solved by a group of selected individuals ("government") who are delegated such authority by the consensus. I don't consider the case when this authority is taken by force as we have assumed that it should be natural ("self-inflicted"), not imposed

So, what you're saying is, when it comes to "proto-government, leadership", and ("self-inflicted"), we will rely on trust? So you believe that since a ("government") is unavoidable such as this case, it'll come out naturally? Well, technically, forming a government needs (trust) even if its delegated, but I am not worried about the leader, government whatever ('cause they are "the selected" people) but the other members of the society (the common people). Do you honestly think a society could be as "organized" or even better without an acting "government"?

What I meant could be loosely construed as a government-less society, technically, a form of anarchy (but without the lawlessness of the latter). This is mostly a theoretical construct still. No government means no taxes, i.e. what counts as taxes now could then be just a regular price for a service just like any other service out there

Yes, that's what I'm afraid of, the lawlessness of this "type" of government.

You might think that I may be against the idea but actually, no. I'm having thoughts on the consequences if this would ever happen. I genuinely think that this could only work if the "society" is comprised of people who respected and trusted everyone, which in case of a human being is quite impossible.