BFL (BF Labs Inc; Butterfly Labs) officially refusing to refund their customers.

[Bicknellski]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg1233371#msg1233371
   

Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM
September 30, 2012, 19:15:17
  #5
What doesn't feel right to me about BFL is their customer service.

I had placed an order for two Single SCs and prior to sending the wire transfer I asked them whether there would be any guarantee that they will ship the units to me before the end of the year, otherwise I'd request my money back. The answer I received was pretty elusive, that they would start shipping, but they can't guarantee whether I'd be getting mine or not in the first batch(es).

I think any company that runs its business solidly should know the answer to that question. It's simple math: We have X preorders and we're producing Y units in our first batch. We do, or do not, have your order covered.

Needless to say, I backed out of my order with them. Btcfpga's ASIC seems to look a lot better now.

That said, I don't believe they are a scam, I believe they will eventually ship their asics, just not to everyone, and a lot of people will be left behind and probably never recover their investment.

[1714595850]

1714595850

[1714595850]

1714595850

[SLok]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg1233371#msg1233371
   

Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM
September 30, 2012, 19:15:17
  #5
What doesn't feel right to me about BFL is their customer service.

I had placed an order for two Single SCs and prior to sending the wire transfer I asked them whether there would be any guarantee that they will ship the units to me before the end of the year, otherwise I'd request my money back. The answer I received was pretty elusive, that they would start shipping, but they can't guarantee whether I'd be getting mine or not in the first batch(es).

I think any company that runs its business solidly should know the answer to that question. It's simple math: We have X preorders and we're producing Y units in our first batch. We do, or do not, have your order covered.

Needless to say, I backed out of my order with them. Btcfpga's ASIC seems to look a lot better now.

That said, I don't believe they are a scam, I believe they will eventually ship their asics, just not to everyone, and a lot of people will be left behind and probably never recover their investment.

ROFLMAO!!!!!   Well, we all know how his second choice ended!!!  The bASIC fail, where Buzzdave claimed (lied) he saw Tom's working real ASIC btw.

[Lohoris]

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out. 

∞ + x = ∞

[Bitcoinorama]

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out. 

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly?

[Lohoris]

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out. 

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly?

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

[Loredo]

RE: "That said, I don't believe they are a scam, I believe they will eventually ship their asics, just not to everyone, and a lot of people will be left behind and probably never recover their investment."

But that's the definition of a scam.  It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all."  Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return.  That's how they stay in business. 

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling.  If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

[Bitcoinorama]

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out.  

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly?

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

Dude, their actual logo is an infinity sign, that's what's hilarious!!

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!!

[Loredo]

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out.  

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly?

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

Dude, their actual logo is an infinity sign, that's what's hilarious!!

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!!

Actually, it's a Mobius strip, isn't it?  I have heard that (maybe a myth) the infinity symbol derives from the Mobius strip.

[Lohoris]

I have heard that (maybe a myth) the infinity symbol derives from the Mobius strip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_symbol

[Loredo]

I have heard that (maybe a myth) the infinity symbol derives from the Mobius strip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_symbol

Thank you.  From that article:

In the works of Vladimir Nabokov, including The Gift and Pale Fire, the figure-eight shape is used symbolically to refer to the Möbius strip and the infinite, for instance in these books' descriptions of the shapes of bicycle tire tracks and of the outlines of half-remembered people.

But the first usage of the symbol is much earlier than Mobius. 

[niko]

Just to drive one of Phinn's points deeper into everybody's head:

"Sales are final" does not apply unless there was an actual sale taking place. If you have not received your unit, there was no sale - only a (pre)order.

[SLok]

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out.  

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly?

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

Dude, their actual logo is an infinity sign, that's what's hilarious!!

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!!

Maybe because not everyone fails the basic math knowledge to see the difference between the infinity symbol, and a Lorenz Attractor' styled butterfly?
By the lack of you giving an answer btw, as the KNC expert, to the question how many units KNC will withhold, I understand that you still don't know how many units, or better THash, KNC will take from their production run to mine bitcoins for themselves?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out.  

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly?

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

Dude, their actual logo is an infinity sign, that's what's hilarious!!

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!!

Actually, it's a Mobius strip, isn't it?  I have heard that (maybe a myth) the infinity symbol derives from the Mobius strip.

Actually it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_attractor

The Lorenz system is a system of ordinary differential equations (the Lorenz equations) first studied by Edward Lorenz. It is notable for having chaotic solutions for certain parameter values and initial conditions. In particular, the Lorenz attractor is a set of chaotic solutions of the Lorenz system which, when plotted, resemble a butterfly or figure eight.

Of which BFL is on record in stating that that's not where their logo was derived.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

RE: "That said, I don't believe they are a scam, I believe they will eventually ship their asics, just not to everyone, and a lot of people will be left behind and probably never recover their investment."

But that's the definition of a scam.  It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all."  Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return.  That's how they stay in business.  

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling.  If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

Somebody may need to redo this chart reflecting as it applies to BFL.

[SLok]

Might be a fine job for you, you don't seem to have anything imported at hand lately to do with your life besides hanging around here in the BFL topics?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Might be a fine job for you, you don't seem to have anything imported at hand lately to do with your life besides hanging around here in the BFL topics?

Except jacking off to MFC girls, barn wood, and writing a book (non-fiction not necessarily Bitcoin related).

And making pies.

And spending a hour each morning with autistic adults. Ironically (factually), I pitch a Nerf-like baseball to a guy name Joss. Another guy, named Larry (an Afro-American), just started coming around to speaking again since being dramatized at a younger age thanks, in part, to my efforts. I also taught him to shake hands.

As a whole, and to be fair, SLok, your assessment is somewhat accurate.

[SLok]

Now what, playing the sentimental game? Want a tap on the back, good boy? wtf Larry the "afro-american"? Is that some special qualification?

[k9quaint]

Now what, playing the sentimental game? Want a tap on the back, good boy? wtf Larry the "afro-american"? Is that some special qualification?

How are those BFL sample chips tasting? How many TMWs has it been?

In other news, everyone who has an order with BFL can get a refund until they receive their unit. Contact BFL, if they don't comply, contact PayPal. If you didn't order via PayPal fill out a complaint with the FTC and then forward that to BFL as well. You will get your refund if BFL hasn't yet shipped your products to you.

[Xian01]

I understand that you still don't know how many units, or better THash, KNC will take from their production run to mine bitcoins for themselves?

 Are we to assume with this particular phraseology, that you have some concrete insider information about America's favorite Bitcoin ASIC company ? More specifically, the implication that they are definitively using their production to mine bitcoins for themselves as you are accusing KNC of doing ?

 Do tell.

[SolarSilver]

ROFLMAO!!!!!   Well, we all know how his second choice ended!!!  The bASIC fail, where Buzzdave claimed (lied) he saw Tom's working real ASIC btw.

bASIC fail or not, at least I and other bASIC customers got a refund for our bASIC orders that never got delivered in January 2013 which allowed us to participate in Avalon Batch #2

There is a lot to be said about the bASIC messup (heck, I would have ended up with 30 Avalon Batch #1 units if I did not got lured into bASIC) but at least Tom (and Buzzdave) kept their word and refunded all their customers.

I wonder if BFL customers feel so lucky at this point? Oh for fun, let's have a look at bitcoindifficulty.com, Next difficulty (estimate): 26,844,091

Sweet...