eMunie

[Lohoris]

That sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you make it closed source at first because you don't think it will be popular anyway at first. Not getting popular ever is also a possibility.

Exactly, that's what I tried to explain several times, but he's just a troll and didn't care about that.
He came here, we helped him, he scorned us.
Now he can just fuck off, as far as I'm concerned.

[1715065568]

1715065568

[AgentME]

I am not butthurt, and especially not about your logo as your poor formatting would seem to imply. I called out bitcoin's bullshit within a week of learning of it, and my account was squelched, that is why this one is named Etlase2. I have also not resorted to personal attacks--referring to the fact that you lack significant knowledge in the area of distributed networking is not a personal attack, it is the obvious truth. Whenever I bring this up, you ignore it because you know it is true. Have I called out the emunie devs for being full of shit? Absolutely, as is my right to post on the internet until the local powers that be decide I need to be silenced. I'm not giving emunie any leeway because of promises and wishes, facts need to be provided, plain and simple. When that starts happening, I will shut up about the lack of facts and spend a little time on pointing out flaws if I can find any. To interpret this as being butthurt is your prerogative, but all it does is reek of fanboyism and continuing the lie-filled PR box surrounding cryptocurrencies that started with the huge pyramid scheme known as bitcoin.

Agree, my formatting was pure, in the rush to push post button. What I meant to imply is that you are butthurt because Dan took your ideas and implemented them while you are still musing over your white paper, which Dan still seems to lack to date. I did not imply that you were resorting to personal attacks, it were the other people, I know you just want your factual questions answered, which none of us who have posted inthis thread has been able to answer so far.

And just to clarify, my ideas regarding filtering MAC Addresses are not silly, I was well aware of the fact that it can be gamed, but your too technical mind never seemed to understand the real purpose of doing so - it was to make gaming the system costly and troublesome, not impossible.

People only want to break rules when there is an economic advantage for them to do so. Take that economic advantage away and they wouldn't even bother doing it.

lolol, you're going to check MAC addresses to tell people apart?

If you make something just slightly hard to be gamed, but not impossible to be gamed, then the fewer people who do game it will just profit much more. I'd thank you for helping me profit, if there were a chance in hell I was going to use eMunie.

[notlist3d]

Mac addresses.... come on.  This is a laughable security feature.  You realize the entire first half is the manufacture.  There goes 1/2 of your entire security.

So by brute forcing last half just on major manufacture's mac's .... you will find chances are quite a few users mac's.

And how is it costly at all?  Timely... maybe depending on how many you can do until security cuts it off. 

[billotronic]

apt-get install macchanger -y

ifconfig eth1 down
macchanger -r eth1
ifconfig eth1 up

rinse repeat

[eCoinomist]

Mac addresses.... come on.  This is a laughable security feature.  You realize the entire first half is the manufacture.  There goes 1/2 of your entire security.

So by brute forcing last half just on major manufacture's mac's .... you will find chances are quite a few users mac's.

And how is it costly at all?  Timely... maybe depending on how many you can do until security cuts it off.  

Sigh, I don't know where your understanding level is at, read the article, MAC addresses are never going to be used for "Security" and stop making false security claim when you don't even understand a bit how it works.

PS. so as I understand your time isn't worth anything. Ok that's understandble, but my time is worth money, that's why something that takes me time costs me money.

If you make something just slightly hard to be gamed, but not impossible to be gamed, then the fewer people who do game it will just profit much more. I'd thank you for helping me profit, if there were a chance in hell I was going to use eMunie.

Same thing, you don't even understand that it is used to determine supply/demand, nothing to do with your proiftability!

And as long as 99% of the people using eMunie don't know how to spoof Mac Addresses, your own tiny network counts towards nothing and it's not even tired to profitability, not sure how you can even profit by successfully spoofing mac addresses, as far I'm concerned.

Go ahead and cheat, but unless you manage to convince everyone else to do the same (which is not possible) your action literally has zero effect on manipulating the network.

I shall emphasize again:

We don't need to prevent nerds like you from cheating to have a reliable demand/supply system, we just need to stop the regular Joe from doing so.

As far as security concerned, none of my above 8 ideas suggested are in any way related to security!
And I never talked about security in this thread because I never claimed to understand how it works, so dump assumptions regarding security based on my posts can be totally ignored .

[notlist3d]

Mac addresses.... come on.  This is a laughable security feature.  You realize the entire first half is the manufacture.  There goes 1/2 of your entire security.

So by brute forcing last half just on major manufacture's mac's .... you will find chances are quite a few users mac's.

And how is it costly at all?  Timely... maybe depending on how many you can do until security cuts it off.  

Sigh, I don't know where your understanding level is at, read the article, MAC addresses are never going to be used for "Security" and stop making false security claim when you don't even understand a bit how it works.

If your using mac addresses for anything related to this coin its a stupid idea.  Do you not agree the first half of mac is manufacture?

Guess what miners have common boards they all like .... this makes it where you can target specific groups pretty easy.

[eCoinomist]

I said MAC addresses are not transmitted, not can not. As in, it is not part of the TCP/IP protocol, as in, anyone with the slightest bit of networking background should realize that any "MAC address" received by a peer can not be verified as valid in any way, shape, or form other than it is a 6-byte string. Ergo, it is a completely meaningless metric. "Here are 1 billion 6-byte strings, award me lots of emunie pls"--"prove it"--"here are 1 billion 6-byte strings"...

I picked up on MAC addresses again and again because it is an easy one to poke holes in and show that you are not qualified to be making suggestions of this nature.

I shall go line by line quickly if you want:

1) Total balance of hatchers. -- Relies on a small, unpredictable subset of people who can collude, likely not even on purpose, to create more money for themselves. The basis of new money creation is one where hatchers are paid significantly more of the new money than the rest of the network as a reward for service. How hatchers come to be and how they acquire transactions and how they prove work are all completely unanswered questions, so there is little to do but grossly speculate on how those systems can be abused to put nefarious people in control of the hatchers and collude on purpose.
2-5) Are all essentially based on the "emugraph" concept which is likely unscalable to any reasonable degree (how much information must be kept, how often must this information be accessed, how is a consensus on what this information is reached, etc.) -- and again there is no information at all as to how it works so specific attacks can't be easily surmised at this point. But as I have already stated to your head which seems to be firmly planted in the sand--this will be easily manipulated in an open source protocol. If emunie is to remain closed source, it would be significantly more difficult to game (but far from impossible), but also completely untrustworthy.
6) Is irrelevant
7-8) Both rely on clients reporting honest information in a distributed network. It is a complete failure of design that ignores any notion of a sybil attack. It also somehow presumes that this information can be transmitted and agreed upon by a multitude of nodes who have no way of proving whatsoever that the information is reliable. It is ridiculously easy to game. No cost other than the small amount of time required to reverse engineer a very small part of the network protocol in the case of closed source, or compile in a few extra lines in open source.

Did you realize that none of your criticism is new? they were all already asked and most probably answered in the same thread I linked to.

[eCoinomist]

Economics is irrelevant.

Ok, I already knew before where you are at and why Decrits is unlikely to ever land on my computer

[AgentME]

If you make something just slightly hard to be gamed, but not impossible to be gamed, then the fewer people who do game it will just profit much more. I'd thank you for helping me profit, if there were a chance in hell I was going to use eMunie.

Same thing, you don't even understand that it is used to determine supply/demand, nothing to do with your proiftability!

And as long as 99% of the people using eMunie don't know how to spoof Mac Addresses, your own tiny network counts towards nothing and it's not even tired to profitability, not sure how you can even profit by successfully spoofing mac addresses, as far I'm concerned.

Go ahead and cheat, but unless you manage to convince everyone else to do the same (which is not possible) your action literally has zero effect on manipulating the network.

I shall emphasize again:

We don't need to prevent nerds like you from cheating to have a reliable demand/supply system, we just need to stop the regular Joe from doing so.

As far as security concerned, none of my above 8 ideas suggested are in any way related to security!
And I never talked about security in this thread because I never claimed to understand how it works, so dump assumptions regarding security based on my posts can be totally ignored .

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

[mrvegad]

Using MAC address is just ONE of the many ways to collect stats on the network. It is not being used just by itself, its a very small piece of the puzzle so gaming it won't have an affect on the overall strength of the network.

[AgentME]

Using MAC address is just ONE of the many ways to collect stats on the network. It is not being used just by itself, its a very small piece of the puzzle.

Are all of the pieces just as hilariously easy to exploit? This isn't promising at all.

[mrvegad]

Using MAC address is just ONE of the many ways to collect stats on the network. It is not being used just by itself, its a very small piece of the puzzle.

Are all of the pieces just as hilariously easy to exploit? This isn't promising at all.

This will not affect the overall strength of the network, it is only used for stats and there are other more secure pieces in place to protect it.

[eCoinomist]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

How many times do I have to explain to your straight-forward-simple-thinking that even if you successfully pretend to be 99% of the network, the pure fact is that 99% of all EMU still belong to the rest 1% honest nodes, so your 99% of nodes effort went out of the window, it has no weight or hope on influencing anything. This is just pure and simple example, not taken into consideration about relationship between accounts, trading history, aged vs new EMU, hatcher's trust, etc. - the list goes on.

Are all of the pieces just as hilariously easy to exploit? This isn't promising at all.

Yes, hilariously easy to exploit AND hilariously easy to discount!

I'm sorry, your criticism isn't anything new either, all of your wicked hacking ideas have already been asked and answered in our forum.

[AgentME]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

How many times do I have to explain to your straight-forward-simple-thinking that even if you successfully pretend to be 99% of the network, the pure fact is that 99% of all EMU still belong to the rest 1% honest nodes, so your 99% of nodes effort went out of the window, it has no weight or hope on influencing anything. This is just pure and simple example, not taken into consideration about relationship between accounts, trading history, aged vs new EMU, hatcher's trust, etc. - the list goes on.

Are all of the pieces just as hilariously easy to exploit? This isn't promising at all.

Yes, hilariously easy to exploit AND hilariously easy to discount!

I'm sorry, your criticism isn't anything new either, all of your wicked hacking ideas have already been asked and answered in our forum.

If it's hilariously easy to discount too, why even bother doing it in the first place? It just adds another apparent layer of incompetence to it all.

[Etlase2]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

Don't be so silly Agent, artificial intelligence will detect and stop you.

ecoinomist, fuserleer has been online, is he going to respond to my fairly simple question here: http://forum.emunie.com/threads/how-do-hatchers-choose-transactions.194/ ?

[AgentME]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

Don't be so silly Agent, artificial intelligence will detect and stop you.

lolol. (Also, if an AI is going to be controlling the economy somehow... isn't that a centralized control? Why even attempt the bitcoin model if you're going to have explicit controls like this?)

[Foamy]

When is this going to launch? lol

[kelsey]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

Don't be so silly Agent, artificial intelligence will detect and stop you.

lolol. (Also, if an AI is going to be controlling the economy somehow... isn't that a centralized control? Why even attempt the bitcoin model if you're going to have explicit controls like this?)

by that same argument btc has centralised control.

[eCoinomist]

ecoinomist, fuserleer has been online, is he going to respond to my fairly simple question here: http://forum.emunie.com/threads/how-do-hatchers-choose-transactions.194/ ?

Yes, he said a few days ago he would answer your questions squarely in white paper, but just hadn't got time to do so now. He mentioned the solution he has is different and better than originally proposed.

[Etlase2]

I won't be holding my breath.