eMunie

[CoinEntropy]

Who's excited for this new virtual crypto?

[1715079476]

1715079476

[1715079476]

1715079476

[ohiwastedmylif]

Who's excited for this new virtual crypto?

Is it going to be available for exchange on existing websites like Cryptsy? It seems like since it is doing it's own third party system not even using a QT that it would not be compatible. It seems like a new Ripple or something in that direction.

Too much change can be a very bad thing.

[eCoinomist]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

[ohiwastedmylif]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

So it is really just like PXC? The whole point of the coin is for the dev/team to produce long-term revenue streams for themselves through micro-transactions?

Or does the exchange operate with 0% transaction fees and is powered via the miners? Explain decentrailized more if you can.

[TheSwede75]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

I was pretty enthusiastic before I realized its being released as closed source. Game over. No need for a Ripplescam-2.

[TheSwede75]

Who's excited for this new virtual crypto?

Who is excited about a spam post promoting this closed source ripple alternative?

[ohiwastedmylif]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

I was pretty enthusiastic before I realized its being released as closed source. Game over. No need for a Ripplescam-2.

That is what I want to figure out.

It is sounding exactly like ripple 2.0 with an internet explorer logo.

But also coupled with the business model / scam model of PXC where everything is highly centralized in order to capture revenue streams via micro-transactions. Play poker? they get fees. Use their exchange? they get fees. Etc. .

[Snail2]

I definitely was, but I don't really like closed source things especially when it closely resembles to Timekoin.

[eCoinomist]

take it or leave it, eMunie's target market is not you guys - the ones mourning and complaining how life is unfair whenever you open your mouth, but do nothing to stop the evil...

[Lohoris]

Closed source useless dung.

[mechs]

Oh, the closed source shitcoin? Not very

[tadakaluri]

There are hundreds of Beta versions released. But there is no mining benefit for miners (beta testers get always 0 coins)

[lumpycustard]

It would need some fundamental changes to be a serious contender.

Although regardless of that, there will be a period when its strident supporters all enthusiastically buy each others coins.

[skull88]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

This seemed interesting.

But when I hear closed source, sorry deal breaker.

[emerefer]

There are hundreds of Beta versions released. But there is no mining benefit for miners (beta testers get always 0 coins)

Who cares if you get coins or not hatching while its in beta?

[TheSwede75]

take it or leave it, eMunie's target market is not you guys - the ones mourning and complaining how life is unfair whenever you open your mouth, but do nothing to stop the evil...

Seems most people here are pretty clear in that closed source = not interested.

[AgentME]

take it or leave it, eMunie's target market is not you guys - the ones mourning and complaining how life is unfair whenever you open your mouth, but do nothing to stop the evil...

So you're saying we should be more active in stopping eMunie instead of just complaining about it?

[mechs]

Funny, our opinion was asked and we said we did not want a pre-mine, close source shitcoin.  Then they complain it was bad-mouthed.  Don't ask for opinions if you won;t like the answer.

[Luckybit]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

I was pretty enthusiastic before I realized its being released as closed source. Game over. No need for a Ripplescam-2.

Wtf? closed source?

See, I was going to support the coin but if it's closed source I have second thoughts.

[kelsey]

Funny there always seem to be an air of you have to run any new crypto past the btt trolls and get their approval before its acceptable 

[kelsey]

Closed source useless dung.

Closed mind repetitive useless post

[Cobra]

Funny, our opinion was asked and we said we did not want a pre-mine, close source shitcoin.  Then they complain it was bad-mouthed.  Don't ask for opinions if you won;t like the answer.

While it would initially be closed source to stop the copycat coin creators, it sounds like eventually it would move to open source after this beginning stage.  How many other coins are there based on an actual database with many other innovative features. Do some research.  Do you have a solution to the copycat coin creator problem?

[emerefer]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

I was pretty enthusiastic before I realized its being released as closed source. Game over. No need for a Ripplescam-2.

Wtf? closed source?

See, I was going to support the coin but if it's closed source I have second thoughts.

Im sure eMunies fucked if your not going to support it.

[eCoinomist]

Funny, our opinion was asked and we said we did not want a pre-mine, close source shitcoin.  Then they complain it was bad-mouthed.  Don't ask for opinions if you won;t like the answer.

When exactly did "we" or "I" ask for your opinion? or was it you who openly decided to speak your "opinion" OUT-LOUD
Sure, there was discussion about this in the forum, asking the community to decide. And "we" decided it should be closed source for at least 6-12 months.

[Lohoris]

While it would initially be closed source to stop the copycat coin creators, it sounds like eventually it would move to open source after this beginning stage.

Bullshit.
It is closed source to protect the premine, and smart people won't run on theri computer closed source software related to money, since it could quite easily do any sort of nasty thing (stealing wallets, installing trojans, etc.).
And even if for some magical reason you could be sure that software isn't harmful (hint: you can't), it would still be pointless anyway because closed source = centralised, which totally defies the purpose of cryptocoins in the first place.

[Lohoris]

Creator of eMunie Logo

Nice logo.
A pity it is blatantly copied from Internet Explorer, with a hint of Firefox.

[Lohoris]

It is closed source to protect the premine

And this is quite fun, because it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy: they go closed source to protect the premine, but those coins will be even more worthless because they are closed source, achieving exactly what they were trying to avoid in the first place.

Greed fucks up people's minds.

How to completely botch the launch of something that would have been interesting instead.

[HuuHachu]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

So it is really just like PXC? The whole point of the coin is for the dev/team to produce long-term revenue streams for themselves through micro-transactions?

Or does the exchange operate with 0% transaction fees and is powered via the miners? Explain decentrailized more if you can.

I suppose you mean XRP (ripple) and not PXC (phenixcoin)

[eCoinomist]

Creator of eMunie Logo

Nice logo.
A pity it is blatantly copied from Internet Explorer, with a hint of Firefox.

They say jealousy is the best form of flattery

Ps. the pic you see is my personal avatar, not even the logo. Here is the official logo.

[AgentME]

And even if for some magical reason you could be sure that software isn't harmful (hint: you can't), it would still be pointless anyway because closed source = centralised, which totally defies the purpose of cryptocoins in the first place.

I agree. I swear it's like other people keeping forgetting that decentralization is what was revolutionary about Bitcoin. It wasn't the online or digital parts. Centralized online value transfer systems already exist, and have much more legal standing. Paypal is a popular one. If you're centralized, then they're your competition, and you probably aren't going to get far at all.

[NWO]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

I was pretty enthusiastic before I realized its being released as closed source. Game over. No need for a Ripplescam-2.

That is what I want to figure out.

It is sounding exactly like ripple 2.0 with an internet explorer logo.

But also coupled with the business model / scam model of PXC where everything is highly centralized in order to capture revenue streams via micro-transactions. Play poker? they get fees. Use their exchange? they get fees. Etc. .

100% agree. Especially the internet explorer part 

[CoinEntropy]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

I was pretty enthusiastic before I realized its being released as closed source. Game over. No need for a Ripplescam-2.

That is what I want to figure out.

It is sounding exactly like ripple 2.0 with an internet explorer logo.

But also coupled with the business model / scam model of PXC where everything is highly centralized in order to capture revenue streams via micro-transactions. Play poker? they get fees. Use their exchange? they get fees. Etc. .

100% agree. Especially the internet explorer part 

I think if they made it open-source this coin can excel all competition and compare itself to LTC. The design is ingenious. (research block 'trees')

[Lohoris]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client

BTW this is a lie, since Ripple already does that.

Of course it pales compared to lying about decentralisation itself, and agains the arrogant stance taken against all (well deserved) criticism.

I'm still giggling thinking about how much time did you waste, killing your own project with a couple bad decisions, despite several people kept explaining you over and over what are you doing wrong and why.

[ilostcoins]

In what sense is it centralized?

[AgentME]

In what sense is it centralized?

If it's closed source, then only the developers have the source and control of it. There's no way to inspect changes to it. No way to maintain your own patches.

[eCoinomist]

Most people moaning in this thread don't seem to understand the concept of "agile" deployment. No one ever said it's going to be closed source forever, shall I make it bold and clear that it's ONLY CLOSED_SOURCE FOR 12 MONTHS?

[AgentME]

Most people moaning in this thread don't seem to understand the concept of "agile" deployment. No one ever said it's going to be closed source forever, shall I make it bold and clear that it's ONLY CLOSED_SOURCE FOR 12 MONTHS?

Why is closed source a requirement of agile deployment?

[Lohoris]

No one ever said it's going to be closed source forever, shall I make it bold and clear that it's ONLY CLOSED_SOURCE FOR 12 MONTHS?

Then it is centralised, hence totally pointless, for 12 months.
Come back in 12 months, thanks.

[eCoinomist]

No one ever said it's going to be closed source forever, shall I make it bold and clear that it's ONLY CLOSED_SOURCE FOR 12 MONTHS?

Then it is centralised, hence totally pointless, for 12 months.
Come back in 12 months, thanks.

Ok, see you in 12 months then

[ilostcoins]

So, the way some people here use the term "centralized" has nothing to do with how the protocol functions, whether it is based on a peer-to-peer network etc.

[eCoinomist]

Most people moaning in this thread don't seem to understand the concept of "agile" deployment. No one ever said it's going to be closed source forever, shall I make it bold and clear that it's ONLY CLOSED_SOURCE FOR 12 MONTHS?

Why is closed source a requirement of agile deployment?

Because automated update can roll out anytime during this closed-source period. This will include things like: New features (exchange for example, bug fixes, new security enhancements, etc.) eMunie is  alot more complex than Bitcoin, and it does aim to do a lot more, to function like a "real" currency with similar or better features than traditional banks can offer. That fact alone will force it to be closed source for sometime.

The alt-copy is actually only a secondary concern, not so major as many people think.

[eCoinomist]

So, the way some people here use the term "centralized" has nothing to do with how the protocol functions, whether it is based on a peer-to-peer network etc.

When people say closed source here they mean the source code will not allow other developers to modify for 12 months.

But from end-user point of view in all other aspects, it's a decentralised system just like Bitcoin (you have control of your client and what you want it to do), but with multiple chains (instead of single block chain like Bitcoin).

Yes, it's peer-to-peer network protocol.
Not much info yet, but here is quick infographic with some explanation how it works:
http://ecoinomist.com/emunie-block-tree-transaction-chain-infographic

[AgentME]

So, the way some people here use the term "centralized" has nothing to do with how the protocol functions, whether it is based on a peer-to-peer network etc.

Decentralized in the case of Bitcoin means more than just the fact that the network is peer-to-peer. It's also the fact that no entity, no person, no bank, no government has complete control over the code everyone uses.

[bahamapascal]

Well I am for closed source at the beginning, I think its the only way to make it a success. Tough I do think that the code should be released to some trusted members of bitcointalk so they can ensure that there is nothing "bad" in the code.
What do you guys think would happen if it gets release open cource and three weeks later there are ten different "copy and paste" coins releases?Would that be good for any body?
I think something smiler has already happened once with  ppcoin, (I think) first coin to use POS. Now there are like four or more copycoins (BTG,BTB,CAP, etz.), none of which are a real success and ppcoin is also not doing to well...

[AgentME]

What do you guys think would happen if it gets release open cource and three weeks later there are ten different "copy and paste" coins releases?Would that be good for any body?

How would that be very different than what's already happening?

I think something smiler has already happened once with  ppcoin, (I think) first coin to use POS. Now there are like four or more copycoins (BTG,BTB,CAP, etz.), none of which are a real success and ppcoin is also not doing to well...

I've never heard of any of those copycoins, and everywhere I look, PPC is mentioned as one of the big four of Bitcoin, Namecoin, PPcoin, and Litecoin. Are you arguing for or against open source there?

[Lohoris]

Yes, it's peer-to-peer network protocol.

Being peer-to-peer is worth precisely ZERO if you have complete control over the code.
You can just do whatever you want --> it's centralised.
Pushing this "decentralised" claims might be considered fraud, as far as I know.

[skull88]

Well I am for closed source at the beginning, I think its the only way to make it a success. Tough I do think that the code should be released to some trusted members of bitcointalk so they can ensure that there is nothing "bad" in the code.
What do you guys think would happen if it gets release open cource and three weeks later there are ten different "copy and paste" coins releases?Would that be good for any body?
I think something smiler has already happened once with  ppcoin, (I think) first coin to use POS. Now there are like four or more copycoins (BTG,BTB,CAP, etz.), none of which are a real success and ppcoin is also not doing to well...

http://coinmarketcap.com/

Look at the marketcap of PPcoin, where are the copycats standing? Behind it. That PPcoin isn't a big succes at the moment has nothing to do with copycats. If Sunny released it closed source, we wouldn't even mention it anymore.

Litecoin who has such a huge number of copycats that it isn't even countable, where is Litecoin standing? 2nd, the copycats doesn't seem to hurt it.
I think the closed source will hurt it much more, it just isn't wise to run a closed source currency. If you put a lot of money in the currency en the developer choose to stop the support or gets hit by a bus, no other developer can pick it up. It isn't decentralized, 1 or a few people control the code. Nobody knows if it is secure to run, could be a walletstealer for all we know...

If I where you guys, I would really rethink this idea.

[Etlase2]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

So it is really just like PXC? The whole point of the coin is for the dev/team to produce long-term revenue streams for themselves through micro-transactions?

Or does the exchange operate with 0% transaction fees and is powered via the miners? Explain decentrailized more if you can.

He can't. The "decentralized" exchange is just a huge waste of bandwidth making *everyone* keep track of bids and asks over the protocol while your fiat money is still just as centralized sitting on dev-approved, regular ol' centralized exchanges. It is all-around a dumb idea.

[TheSwede75]

Most people moaning in this thread don't seem to understand the concept of "agile" deployment. No one ever said it's going to be closed source forever, shall I make it bold and clear that it's ONLY CLOSED_SOURCE FOR 12 MONTHS?

I remember another 'coin' who said they were only going to be closed source 'for now' .. Ripple

The entire point of crypto currency is that the openness of design allows for 100% vetting of code, mining, block chain etc. once you sprinkle in even a single grain of "need of trust" into this the entire idea crumbles.

I like the technical aspects of eMunie, but pre-mine + closed source does not pair well at all..

[mistercoin]

Well, even if it is closed source, it looks like a hell of a lot more innovative than these shit scrypt coins that come out every day. I look forward to eMunie, and that will be the deciding factor for me.

[TheSwede75]

Well, even if it is closed source, it looks like a hell of a lot more innovative than these shit scrypt coins that come out every day. I look forward to eMunie, and that will be the deciding factor for me.

Who cares how 'innovative' it is when you can't verify the code or 'honesty' impartially?

[bahamapascal]

Well I am for closed source at the beginning, I think its the only way to make it a success. Tough I do think that the code should be released to some trusted members of bitcointalk so they can ensure that there is nothing "bad" in the code.
What do you guys think would happen if it gets release open cource and three weeks later there are ten different "copy and paste" coins releases?Would that be good for any body?
I think something smiler has already happened once with  ppcoin, (I think) first coin to use POS. Now there are like four or more copycoins (BTG,BTB,CAP, etz.), none of which are a real success and ppcoin is also not doing to well...

http://coinmarketcap.com/

Look at the marketcap of PPcoin, where are the copycats standing? Behind it. That PPcoin isn't a big succes at the moment has nothing to do with copycats. If Sunny released it closed source, we wouldn't even mention it anymore.

Litecoin who has such a huge number of copycats that it isn't even countable, where is Litecoin standing? 2nd, the copycats doesn't seem to hurt it.
I think the closed source will hurt it much more, it just isn't wise to run a closed source currency. If you put a lot of money in the currency en the developer choose to stop the support or gets hit by a bus, no other developer can pick it up. It isn't decentralized, 1 or a few people control the code. Nobody knows if it is secure to run, could be a walletstealer for all we know...

If I where you guys, I would really rethink this idea.

Well that is a good point, Litcoin did very well that is true...but I do think that times have changed a bit since then. When litecoin was released back in 2011 a new coin was something special. Now since beginning of this year there have been so many new coin releases that a new coin is nothing special anymore. Now the question would be, what would have happened if litcoin would have been released beginning of this year? Or other way around, what would have happened if all of the new coins would have been released back in 2011 shortly after litecoin? I think that Litcoin would not have been such an "success" as it has become. I think that the time changed and that something that worked two years ago might not be working that good this year anymore.
By the way, I am absolutely for open source, but I think that in that case open source might be something not wise to do.
And, if trusted members of bitcointalk can verify the code and we all know it is clean, I don´t see a reason why we would need the source code unless for making a copiecoin, or would there be another reason?

[n4ru]

It will be the first digital currency to have integrated decentralised exchange right inside the client. Dan (the developer) is currently working on first beta client to handle basic transactions, integrated exchange is scheduled to be released soon on second phase if I'm correct.

I was pretty enthusiastic before I realized its being released as closed source. Game over. No need for a Ripplescam-2.

Was intrigued up until I read this.

NTY.

[Lohoris]

And, if trusted members of bitcointalk can verify the code and we all know it is clean

I want everyone to be able to verify the code, otherwise it's still centralised.

[btbrae]

Well I was excited until I read everybody here saying that it's now closed source...

[ohiwastedmylif]

For all we know it is a massive botnet coin used to destroy other coins.

Why not innovate upon what is existing and what is working? I know thinking is hard, but I am sure there is plenty more room for development. Closed vs open is what makes a coin a crypto-currency vs a crapto-currency.

[mechs]

It is really a shame - it seems like a innovative currency and idea.  However, the key to a new currency is a clean launch.  It will be a disaster between the huge pre-mine snd the closed source.  Just a waste of time.

[emerefer]

It is really a shame - it seems like a innovative currency and idea.  However, the key to a new currency is a clean launch.  It will be a disaster between the huge pre-mine snd the closed source.  Just a waste of time.

No this is only a key to a new currency in this community. And the idea here is to not market emunie to this community.  To think if this community doesnt accept it will fail is completely stupid and you think way to highly of yourself.

[Lohoris]

No this is only a key to a new currency in this community. And the idea here is to not market emunie to this community.  To think if this community doesnt accept it will fail is completely stupid and you think way to highly of yourself.

So why post here at all.
Go away to your magic forest where all people love you, and stop bullshitting us.

[emerefer]

No this is only a key to a new currency in this community. And the idea here is to not market emunie to this community.  To think if this community doesnt accept it will fail is completely stupid and you think way to highly of yourself.

So why post here at all.
Go away to your magic forest where all people love you, and stop bullshitting us.

Im sorry is this section of the forum only for alternate cryptocurrencies that are open source?

[Lohoris]

Im sorry is this section of the forum only for alternate cryptocurrencies that are open source?

You have a link to "ripple is scam" in your signature.

[emerefer]

Im sorry is this section of the forum only for alternate cryptocurrencies that are open source?

You have a link to "ripple is scam" in your signature.

And as of now I dont believe that the developers are going to premine an unfair amount to dump for themselves.  If they do ill be more then happy to eat my words.

[skull88]

It is really a shame - it seems like a innovative currency and idea.  However, the key to a new currency is a clean launch.  It will be a disaster between the huge pre-mine snd the closed source.  Just a waste of time.

No this is only a key to a new currency in this community. And the idea here is to not market emunie to this community.  To think if this community doesnt accept it will fail is completely stupid and you think way to highly of yourself.

I think this community is probably the easiest one to adopt a new crypto currency, if even we don't adopt it, I really think it will be nearly impossible to get enough others on the ship of emunie.

But I don't know everything, I see alt-coins as a great thing for new ideas. I guess totally different marketing is also an idea, you guys have the luck average Joe doesn't care about open or closed source, sha-256, scrypt, primes, etc.

[emerefer]

It is really a shame - it seems like a innovative currency and idea.  However, the key to a new currency is a clean launch.  It will be a disaster between the huge pre-mine snd the closed source.  Just a waste of time.

No this is only a key to a new currency in this community. And the idea here is to not market emunie to this community.  To think if this community doesnt accept it will fail is completely stupid and you think way to highly of yourself.

I think this community is probably the easiest one to adopt a new crypto currency, if even we don't adopt it, I really think it will be nearly impossible to get enough others on the ship of emunie.

But I don't know everything, I see alt-coins as a great thing for new ideas. I guess totally different marketing is also an idea, you guys have the luck average Joe doesn't care about open or closed source, sha-256, scrypt, primes, etc.

I guess since im an average Joe and cant read a lick a code it dont matter to me if its open source or not.  Maybe i am the only one that feels this way.  ive spent enough time on the Emunie forum to believe it will not be a scam.  If im wrong in the end Ive lost nothing but a little time and whatever i decide to invest.  Not a big deal.  From what ive seen and read  im willing take a risk on it.

[mechs]

It is really a shame - it seems like a innovative currency and idea.  However, the key to a new currency is a clean launch.  It will be a disaster between the huge pre-mine snd the closed source.  Just a waste of time.

No this is only a key to a new currency in this community. And the idea here is to not market emunie to this community.  To think if this community doesnt accept it will fail is completely stupid and you think way to highly of yourself.

I think this community is probably the easiest one to adopt a new crypto currency, if even we don't adopt it, I really think it will be nearly impossible to get enough others on the ship of emunie.

But I don't know everything, I see alt-coins as a great thing for new ideas. I guess totally different marketing is also an idea, you guys have the luck average Joe doesn't care about open or closed source, sha-256, scrypt, primes, etc.

I guess since im an average Joe and cant read a lick a code it dont matter to me if its open source or not.  Maybe i am the only one that feels this way.  ive spent enough time on the Emunie forum to believe it will not be a scam.  If im wrong in the end Ive lost nothing but a little time and whatever i decide to invest.  Not a big deal.  From what ive seen and read  im willing take a risk on it.

All I can say is eMunie = Fail.  I have much more optimism in Primecoin will overtake Litecoin as the 2nd biggest ecurrency.

[flyingcat]

no source code available? forget it

[eCoinomist]

Cough, cough... for those claiming they know what "decentralised" means, I shall point this out:

The meaning of decentralization may vary in part because of the different ways it is applied...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization

[Lohoris]

Cough, cough... for those claiming they know what "decentralised" means, I shall point this out:

The meaning of decentralization may vary in part because of the different ways it is applied...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization

blah blah blah lies and misdirection.

decentralised = no single points of failure, can be replicated indefinitely.

as long as it's closed source, it has a single point of failure.

so, stfu.

[mrvegad]

Cough, cough... for those claiming they know what "decentralised" means, I shall point this out:

The meaning of decentralization may vary in part because of the different ways it is applied...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization

blah blah blah lies and misdirection.

decentralised = no single points of failure, can be replicated indefinitely.

as long as it's closed source, it has a single point of failure.

so, stfu.

Didn't u try to set up some sort of exchange for ripple?  So u against closed source unless u can make some money with it?

[eCoinomist]

he calls wikipedians liers... no pointing talking sense with this guy.. 

[Visin]

Cough, cough... for those claiming they know what "decentralised" means, I shall point this out:

The meaning of decentralization may vary in part because of the different ways it is applied...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization

blah blah blah lies and misdirection.

decentralised = no single points of failure, can be replicated indefinitely.

as long as it's closed source, it has a single point of failure.

so, stfu.

Please tell me how you refuse to use a bank, credit card, debit card, or Paypal.

If you think you are fooling anyone, think again.

You think you are a part of something great and part of a 'cool' team? You are not. We fix problems with or without some nobodies approval, whether that includes someone of a lower IQ such as yours, or even someone that may have a higher IQ that you will not be able to have a running conversation with.

So, please go do some reading and until then, stfu

[frga13]

when will start that eMoonie?

[kelsey]

No one ever said it's going to be closed source forever, shall I make it bold and clear that it's ONLY CLOSED_SOURCE FOR 12 MONTHS?

Then it is centralised, hence totally pointless, for 12 months.
Come back in 12 months, thanks.

I'm sorry didn't you try your own ripple gateway? Isn't ripple still closed source?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195024.msg2025557#msg2025557


oh wait you failed? awwww so a bitter troll.....no wonder you hate so much.

So now we all know why you're such a self proclaimed expert on single points of failure, you stare at one everyday..... 

[AgentME]

Cough, cough... for those claiming they know what "decentralised" means, I shall point this out:

The meaning of decentralization may vary in part because of the different ways it is applied...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization

blah blah blah lies and misdirection.

decentralised = no single points of failure, can be replicated indefinitely.

as long as it's closed source, it has a single point of failure.

so, stfu.

Please tell me how you refuse to use a bank, credit card, debit card, or Paypal.

If you think you are fooling anyone, think again.

You think you are a part of something great and part of a 'cool' team? You are not. We fix problems with or without some nobodies approval, whether that includes someone of a lower IQ such as yours, or even someone that may have a higher IQ that you will not be able to have a running conversation with.

So, please go do some reading and until then, stfu

So eMunie is intending to compete with banks and Paypal? Bitcoin only got nearly as far as it did because it's decentralized. Bitcoin isn't very legally tied with the existing banking systems. If you're going to remove Bitcoin's real advantage while also being in its legal gray area... good luck.

[jubalix]

ripple for better or worse has shown closed source can have some value.....even though the float is small

I thus think there is room for Emunie with closed source for a not insubstantial number of people.
I also think Emunie will go open source long before an more surely than XRP

[Lohoris]

So eMunie is intending to compete with banks and Paypal? Bitcoin only got nearly as far as it did because it's decentralized. Bitcoin isn't very legally tied with the existing banking systems. If you're going to remove Bitcoin's real advantage while also being in its legal gray area... good luck.

Exactly.

But he's a PR troll so he'll keep finding excuses, dodging the real problems, and flooding us with bullshit.

[mrvegad]

He never said eMunie was going to compete with banks or PayPal. He is saying those are closed source systems but you use them.


Lohoris i see u dodged the ripple question?

[AgentME]

He never said eMunie was going to compete with banks or PayPal. He is saying those are closed source systems but you use them.

We use them because they're part of the existing financial system. I can pay my bills straight from my bank. It's easy to explain my bank account on my taxes. Everyone accepts Paypal.

Bitcoin (and altcoins) aren't part of the existing financial system. (If I ever make big profits in Bitcoin, I dread figuring out how I'm supposed to list it on my taxes.) But I still bother with Bitcoin because it's a truly decentralized solution that no one is in control of. There's no chance of some company changing their terms of service and closing my account. There's no chance someone is going to suddenly change the minting rate and make mine worthless. There's no chance that my funds will be seized by mistake, or a system error on a bank's part out of my control leaves me unable to access it for a while. There isn't going to be a buggy mandatory Bitcoin update ever.

If you make a new altcoin without the decentralized part, why should anyone bother? There are already many solutions like banks and Paypal that aren't decentralized and are already extremely well integrated with the existing financial frameworks.

[mrvegad]

He never said eMunie was going to compete with banks or PayPal. He is saying those are closed source systems but you use them.

We use them because they're part of the existing financial system. I can pay my bills straight from my bank. It's easy to explain my bank account on my taxes. Everyone accepts Paypal.

Bitcoin (and altcoins) aren't part of the existing financial system. (If I ever make big profits in Bitcoin, I dread figuring out how I'm supposed to list it on my taxes.) But I still bother with Bitcoin because it's a truly decentralized solution that no one is in control of. There's no chance of some company changing their terms of service and closing my account. There's no chance someone is going to suddenly change the minting rate and make mine worthless. There's no chance that my funds will be seized by mistake, or a system error on a bank's part out of my control leaves me unable to access it for a while. There isn't going to be a buggy mandatory Bitcoin update ever.

If you make a new altcoin without the decentralized part, why should anyone bother? There are already many solutions like banks and Paypal that aren't decentralized and are already extremely well integrated with the existing financial frameworks.

So im a developer who has a great improvement for bitcoin, i am able to take the source code add in my improvement and then release it for people to start using?

[eCoinomist]

Funny how some individuals here try to undermine emunie, because they know it's such an evolved system from Bitcoin, that once it's open source (which means a grown beast that can tackle hunting on its own, not just baby needing nurture) it will blow every single crypto currency currently in existence out of the radar.

I bet while these trolls moan and whine here, the same time they are probably lurking around emunie forum under different usernames... pathetic.

[AgentME]

Funny how some individuals here try to undermine emunie, because they know it's such an evolved system from Bitcoin, that once it's open source (which means a grown beast that can tackle hunting on its own, not just baby needing nurture) it will blow every single crypto currency currently in existence out of the radar.

I bet while these trolls moan and whine here, the same time they are probably lurking around emunie forum under different usernames... pathetic.

Are you saying the only reason anyone would criticize this is because they're scared of how good it is?


lol

[PerfectAgent]

Funny how some individuals here try to undermine emunie, because they know it's such an evolved system from Bitcoin, that once it's open source (which means a grown beast that can tackle hunting on its own, not just baby needing nurture) it will blow every single crypto currency currently in existence out of the radar.

I bet while these trolls moan and whine here, the same time they are probably lurking around emunie forum under different usernames... pathetic.

Are you saying the only reason anyone would criticize this is because they're scared of how good it is?


lol

My momma always said that the only reason people make fun of me is because they're jealous.

[eCoinomist]

Funny how some individuals here try to undermine emunie, because they know it's such an evolved system from Bitcoin, that once it's open source (which means a grown beast that can tackle hunting on its own, not just baby needing nurture) it will blow every single crypto currency currently in existence out of the radar.

I bet while these trolls moan and whine here, the same time they are probably lurking around emunie forum under different usernames... pathetic.

Are you saying the only reason anyone would criticize this is because they're scared of how good it is?


lol

They are trying to protect their "precious" stash of BTC/LTC, because when emunie succeeds, Bitcoin will be history.

[digitalindustry]

He never said eMunie was going to compete with banks or PayPal. He is saying those are closed source systems but you use them.

We use them because they're part of the existing financial system. I can pay my bills straight from my bank. It's easy to explain my bank account on my taxes. Everyone accepts Paypal.

Bitcoin (and altcoins) aren't part of the existing financial system. (If I ever make big profits in Bitcoin, I dread figuring out how I'm supposed to list it on my taxes.) But I still bother with Bitcoin because it's a truly decentralized solution that no one is in control of. There's no chance of some company changing their terms of service and closing my account. There's no chance someone is going to suddenly change the minting rate and make mine worthless. There's no chance that my funds will be seized by mistake, or a system error on a bank's part out of my control leaves me unable to access it for a while. There isn't going to be a buggy mandatory Bitcoin update ever.

If you make a new altcoin without the decentralized part, why should anyone bother? There are already many solutions like banks and Paypal that aren't decentralized and are already extremely well integrated with the existing financial frameworks.

So im a developer who has a great improvement for bitcoin, i am able to take the source code add in my improvement and then release it for people to start using?

I'm not in this argument either way , but yes technically you can , and if more people use your client than the existing client I understand that you will fork the blockchain no ?   Has this not happened many times ?

[mrvegad]

But what if i dont want to fork it?  Can't i just make a change to the current code without forking it? Is there a procedure i have to follow to do this?

[mrvegad]

Let's s take as look at the current "coins" out there: 

Bitcoin -
   Unstable price - not good for average joe or merchants
.   Special hardware to mine it so only a small percentage of people are able to take part in the creation of it.
    Transaction times are way to slow - useless for pos

Other alt-coins

   If it can be 51% attacked - useless
   Double spend - useless
.  Transactions longer then 30 sec - useless

Have any of these coins been stressed test to see how they would perform under heavyload?

eMunie is trying to solve these problems,  so if u want to shit on it because for right now it's not open source then stick with you coins that have no future.
. 

[AgentME]

Let's s take as look at the current "coins" out there: 

Bitcoin -
   Unstable price - not good for average joe or merchants
.   Special hardware to mine it so only a small percentage of people are able to take part in the creation of it.
    Transaction times are way to slow - useless for pos

Other alt-coins

   If it can be 51% attacked - useless
   Double spend - useless
.  Transactions longer then 30 sec - useless

Have any of these coins been stressed test to see how they would perform under heavyload?

eMunie is trying to solve these problems,  so if u want to shit on it because for right now it's not open source then stick with you coins that have no future.
. 

Paypal solves those issues too.

[Loki8]

If you want to compete against bitcoin, one thing is clear, without investors you have no long-term chance at economic success.  Silicon Valley and even Wall Street are taking note of bitcoin, which has drawn prominent investors like the Winklevoss twin.

[Etlase2]

Paypal solves those issues too.

 

[eCoinomist]

Paypal =:
1 - not decentralised
2 - hefty fees
3 - exchange fees
4 - requires a credit card
5 - no interest rates
6 - requires a bank
7 - not secure (relies too much on email)

[Visin]

My favorite part about this entire discussion, is that some feel that they actually have legitimate excuses >.>

If you only knew a bit of the developers behind eMunie, you would have a little faith
Regardless, I forget, but do we win something if we 'convince' naysayers? All I have been rewarded with from beating the naysayers is pride in knowing that they cannot do any better lol.

[AgentME]

My favorite part about this entire discussion, is that some feel that they actually have legitimate excuses >.>

If you only knew a bit of the developers behind eMunie, you would have a little faith
Regardless, I forget, but do we win something if we 'convince' naysayers? All I have been rewarded with from beating the naysayers is pride in knowing that they cannot do any better lol.

If you can't figure out what will make us happy when we complain it's not even open source, then I'm not sure there's any hope for you.

[mechs]

My favorite part about this entire discussion, is that some feel that they actually have legitimate excuses >.>

If you only knew a bit of the developers behind eMunie, you would have a little faith
Regardless, I forget, but do we win something if we 'convince' naysayers? All I have been rewarded with from beating the naysayers is pride in knowing that they cannot do any better lol.

Yes, you wil adoption and support from the cryptocurrency community.  But hey, you can go trade your emunie coins among the 30 people on your forum and see what traction you get with that.

[eCoinomist]

My favorite part about this entire discussion, is that some feel that they actually have legitimate excuses >.>

If you only knew a bit of the developers behind eMunie, you would have a little faith
Regardless, I forget, but do we win something if we 'convince' naysayers? All I have been rewarded with from beating the naysayers is pride in knowing that they cannot do any better lol.

If you can't figure out what will make us happy when we complain it's not even open source, then I'm not sure there's any hope for you.

I know what will make most kids here happy WITHOUT EVER GOING OPEN SOURCE - give them some good stash of eMunie at the start and let them earn ridiculous 1,000% interest rate per month without doing any work

[JohnyBigs]

The Dev behind eMunie can easily raise VC for anything he needs given his ast experience and successes

[billotronic]

If you want to compete against bitcoin, one thing is clear, without investors you have no long-term chance at economic success.  Silicon Valley and even Wall Street are taking note of bitcoin, which has drawn prominent investors like the Winklevoss twin.

This is why bitcoin and the general state of crypto's has failed. It's no longer about changing the world but profit and greed. By striving to replace the banksters and cheats, bitcoin and the cryptos have supplanted the said evil we all set out to fight.

To the haters, you should come by and see what we have going on. If you are so passionate about open source and what cryptos are supposed to be about, you should at least give us a chance. You may even present a good conversation that can change the process! At the very least with hands on experience and the facts from our own forums, you could if nothing else make a stronger argument on why us b00bs should wither up and die.

If you turn a blind eye to everything that does not fit your perfect mold, the struggle for true financial independence for all of mankind will progress no further than your bloated troll count or the bragging right ban duration from some random troll box. The world is going to shit real damn quick and this scene needs to get its pompous head out of its ass and start making real progress towards change instead the current game of blood lust of greed. We can all call out scam coin bull shit, but you need to at least look further into projects that show promise and or innovation before painting them with broad strokes of troll.

[Etlase2]

This is why bitcoin and the general state of crypto's has failed. It's no longer about changing the world but profit and greed. By striving to replace the banksters and cheats, bitcoin and the cryptos have supplanted the said evil we all set out to fight.

To the haters, you should come by and see what we have going on. If you are so passionate about open source and what cryptos are supposed to be about, you should at least give us a chance. You may even present a good conversation that can change the process! At the very least with hands on experience and the facts from our own forums, you could if nothing else make a stronger argument on why us b00bs should wither up and die.

give them some good stash of eMunie at the start and let them earn ridiculous 1,000% interest rate per month without doing any work

PS - I have yet to receive one satisfactory answer to any question by anyone that matters. I am willing to poke holes, but if the policy is to keep the wool drawn, what the heck is there to learn or discuss? So far all there is is some technobabble-disguised bullshit that fools less technically inclined people. I don't buy it.

[JohnyBigs]

This is why bitcoin and the general state of crypto's has failed. It's no longer about changing the world but profit and greed. By striving to replace the banksters and cheats, bitcoin and the cryptos have supplanted the said evil we all set out to fight.

To the haters, you should come by and see what we have going on. If you are so passionate about open source and what cryptos are supposed to be about, you should at least give us a chance. You may even present a good conversation that can change the process! At the very least with hands on experience and the facts from our own forums, you could if nothing else make a stronger argument on why us b00bs should wither up and die.

give them some good stash of eMunie at the start and let them earn ridiculous 1,000% interest rate per month without doing any work

PS - I have yet to receive one satisfactory answer to any question by anyone that matters. I am willing to poke holes, but if the policy is to keep the wool drawn, what the heck is there to learn or discuss? So far all there is is some technobabble-disguised bullshit that fools less technically inclined people. I don't buy it.

It's closed source because WE the beta testers pushed fuserleer to keep it closed source in the beginning to keep other copy cat coins away. Eventually the code will be released slowly, until it's all open source.

Again Greed is playing as mentioned above, people want it to be open source so they can come clone it and release 1000 copies everyday of emunie.

[Etlase2]

Oh please. Besides, I don't know why you're responding to my post as it had nothing to do with the sourceness of emunie, just the fact that fuserleer is probably full of shit. I don't believe emunie has a proper system for preventing double spending, and I believe it is totally unscalable if any of the silly ideas that ecoinomist talks about are implemented. But I can't really be sure since no one who actually knows stuff wants to discuss anything. This does not, believe it or not, require releasing the source code.

[Anduck]

Would you really put your life savings in a currency called eMunie? Or 500 dollars?

Bitcoin -
   Unstable price - not good for average joe or merchants
.   Special hardware to mine it so only a small percentage of people are able to take part in the creation of it.
    Transaction times are way to slow - useless for pos

You can use Bitcoin only as the middle currency, i.e. USD<->BTC<->USD. This way USD/BTC rate doesn't matter. Also the price will most likely get more stable. You can buy a capable miner for 100 USD to mine BTC.
I think all new cryptocurrencies (btc+altcoins) have unstable price. And Bitcoin is the oldest.

[JohnyBigs]

Oh please. Besides, I don't know why you're responding to my post as it had nothing to do with the sourceness of emunie, just the fact that fuserleer is probably full of shit. I don't believe emunie has a proper system for preventing double spending, and I believe it is totally unscalable if any of the silly ideas that ecoinomist talks about are implemented. But I can't really be sure since no one who actually knows stuff wants to discuss anything. This does not, believe it or not, require releasing the source code.

I'm sure fuserleer is more than capable as he was behind NFC you know that little thing used in every almost every cell-phone, and even if he doesn't get it right, he's the only one that has the capabilities to even try, but I'm sure he has got it right. No offense, but you seem like your butt hurt that he actually created what you have been writing about.

Here is a direct link: http://forum.emunie.com/ if you truly care about learning about it, instead of calling someone who's created new technologies full of shit.

[Etlase2]

Unlike you, I am not so easily impressed by infographics and false explanations. Neither will anyone else be who understands the dynamics behind a p2p distributed shared file. The time to discuss what actually will make emunie tick is now, so people can find vulnerabilities in the logic, not a year down the road when the source code is finally released.

I did say probably full of shit because fuserleer has not once satisfactorily answered a technical question. I have been told to "check the forum" several times--where there is nothing more than the same lack of real info, and again by another mouth breather, but I have started two topics (unanswered) already, and will continue to post more depending on whether or not fuserleer actually wants to gain some credibility.

http://forum.emunie.com/threads/how-do-hatchers-choose-transactions.194/
http://forum.emunie.com/threads/so-whats-a-mediator.193/

[digitalindustry]

But what if i dont want to fork it?  Can't i just make a change to the current code without forking it? Is there a procedure i have to follow to do this?

yes you can do all of this - There is a move for people to be able to skin clients - add features etc - I'm not following the question i think ?

if you want to somehow change the fundamentals i.e Structure , you would have to fork the BC , this could happen.

[mrvegad]

Unlike you, I am not so easily impressed by infographics and false explanations. Neither will anyone else be who understands the dynamics behind a p2p distributed shared file. The time to discuss what actually will make emunie tick is now, so people can find vulnerabilities in the logic, not a year down the road when the source code is finally released.

I did say probably full of shit because fuserleer has not once satisfactorily answered a technical question. I have been told to "check the forum" several times--where there is nothing more than the same lack of real info, and again by another mouth breather, but I have started two topics (unanswered) already, and will continue to post more depending on whether or not fuserleer actually wants to gain some credibility.

http://forum.emunie.com/threads/how-do-hatchers-choose-transactions.194/
http://forum.emunie.com/threads/so-whats-a-mediator.193/

These are valid points and questions will be answered however Dan's time and energy right now is focused on getting eMunie together.  His plan is to have the whitepaper finished before eMunie is released. Could eMunie be vaporware?  Sure it could but so far Dan has delivered on everything he has said he was going to do. As eMunie is still going through some changes, the answers you got now might not be accurate and Dan isn't out to fool anyone.

[Lohoris]

Paypal =:
1 - not decentralised

emunie isn't either

4 - requires a credit card
6 - requires a bank

emunie requires to trust liars such as you.

7 - not secure (relies too much on email)

as far as we can know, emunie isn't secure either (relies too much on... WHO KNOWS? it's closed source).

now go back to the sanitarium, please...

[PerfectAgent]

Wait, does this have blacklisting?

[JohnyBigs]

This is great i can mine this coin while all the closed source trolls troll it up for a year

[eCoinomist]

... just the fact that fuserleer is probably full of shit. I don't believe emunie has a proper system for preventing double spending, and I believe it is totally unscalable if any of the silly ideas that ecoinomist talks about are implemented. But I can't really be sure since no one who actually knows stuff wants to discuss anything. This does not, believe it or not, require releasing the source code.

At least I and Fuserleer have one thing in common you don't - our ideas turn into reality (maybe not 100% of them, but half of my ideas are already in the current system, you guys just don't know it ).

Good luck with your Decrits ideas, see if they ever lifts off the keyboard strokes beyond the computer screens of this crypto community

Dan does not need to waste his time "actually coding" explaining things to people like you, unfortunately...

[eCoinomist]

Paypal =:
1 - not decentralised

emunie isn't either

4 - requires a credit card
6 - requires a bank

emunie requires to trust liars such as you.

7 - not secure (relies too much on email)

as far as we can know, emunie isn't secure either (relies too much on... WHO KNOWS? it's closed source).

now go back to the sanitarium, please...

Lohoris, I thought you already said not to talk to me until next year?

Meanwhile, if you have nothing else to do, I suggest you go get your Lohores or toy yourself, please

[Etlase2]

Dan needs to learn how "ooh forks are fine" does not do anything to solve the double spending problem. You need to learn how to get a clue besides knob slobbing. You don't even understand the basic concepts behind MAC addresses or how a distributed network works, so anything you say is completely and absolutely ignorable.

Dan does need to waste his time talking to people like me who can actually provide attacks, vulnerabilities, and feedback. Dan is not some infallible god as evidenced by the fact that he has completely changed how emunie works like 4 times now because of vulnerabilities that he did not consider.

What Dan does not need is sycophants. You are useless and in fact detrimental.

[eCoinomist]

...so anything you say is completely and absolutely ignorable.

Uhm... you don't seem to ignore me at all, even calling me detrimental, that's a little strange!

[eCoinomist]

Dan does need to waste his time talking to people like me who can actually provide attacks, vulnerabilities, and feedback. Dan is not some infallible god...

ROFL 

[mr_random]

What Dan does not need is sycophants. You are useless and in fact detrimental.

The entire emunie forum is full of people kissing ass hoping to get crowned 'founder' status by Dan so they get given some of the pre-mined coins.

[billotronic]

What Dan does not need is sycophants. You are useless and in fact detrimental.

The entire emunie forum is full of people kissing ass hoping to get crowned 'founder' status by Dan so they get given some of the pre-mined coins.

Actually, the founders have pretty much been established... they were pretty lucky recruiting such a fine group of reliable people for beta testing.

Course, if you are referring to people actually liking the dev, well then shame on us for being humans capable of emotions.

[Etlase2]

Course, if you are referring to people actually liking the dev, well then shame on us for being humans capable of emotions.

The problem is when emotions get in the way of common sense. This silliness that the dev can do no wrong is very reminiscent of SolidCoin during its initial (closed source, totally controlled) phases. Although most of you folks were probably not around for that. And guess what, SolidCoin still has about the same 10 users it had 2 years ago.

Fuserleer has had mistakes and misconceptions on some very basic concepts and has revised what emunie "does" as a result. I am not faulting him for that, but to pretend that this project can be released successfully without any analysis even on the basic ideas or letting people know how it works is asinine. Because right now there is no explanation for how anything works. This needs to be corrected toute de suite. Otherwise it just looks like another attempt to sucker in some people to the benefit of the early adoption pump n dump.

[Lohoris]

Lohoris, I thought you already said not to talk to me until next year?

Uh?
I told you to go away and come back in a year...

Meanwhile, if you have nothing else to do, I suggest you go get your Lohores or toy yourself, please

So now for lack of arguments, your strategy is now childish insults?
How lol?
Srsly?

[mr_random]

What Dan does not need is sycophants. You are useless and in fact detrimental.

The entire emunie forum is full of people kissing ass hoping to get crowned 'founder' status by Dan so they get given some of the pre-mined coins.

Actually, the founders have pretty much been established... they were pretty lucky recruiting such a fine group of reliable people for beta testing.

Course, if you are referring to people actually liking the dev, well then shame on us for being humans capable of emotions.

According to the public forum the founders have yet to be decided. I stopped reading there regularly weeks ago after I got tired of Ecoinomist's thinly veiled 'I am a founder in the making and only those who make amazing contributions like me maybe deemed worthy of becoming one' posts on a daily basis. Well done Ecoinomist with what in my opinion looks like a shitty Internet Explorer logo ripoff.

I'm sure I could become a founder myself if I beta tested more and kissed ass in the chatbox every night but some negative experiences there have put me off the community and I am pursuing my own projects now.

[billotronic]

Course, if you are referring to people actually liking the dev, well then shame on us for being humans capable of emotions.

The problem is when emotions get in the way of common sense. This silliness that the dev can do no wrong is very reminiscent of SolidCoin during its initial (closed source, totally controlled) phases. Although most of you folks were probably not around for that. And guess what, SolidCoin still has about the same 10 users it had 2 years ago.

Fuserleer has had mistakes and misconceptions on some very basic concepts and has revised what emunie "does" as a result. I am not faulting him for that, but to pretend that this project can be released successfully without any analysis even on the basic ideas or letting people know how it works is asinine. Because right now there is no explanation for how anything works. This needs to be corrected toute de suite. Otherwise it just looks like another attempt to sucker in some people to the benefit of the early adoption pump n dump.

I smell what you are stepping in and I am not knowledgeable enough to provide you the answers you are looking for.

An opinion though would be that as our testing has progressed, the mechanics behind the scenes has progressed also. It might be hard to give out minute details about a function if that function is re-written a week later or three times a day till its right etc etc. Then again, I am no coder, just a tester. All I can vouch for with certainty is the progression of the client we are testing and its features set.

[billotronic]

What Dan does not need is sycophants. You are useless and in fact detrimental.

The entire emunie forum is full of people kissing ass hoping to get crowned 'founder' status by Dan so they get given some of the pre-mined coins.

Actually, the founders have pretty much been established... they were pretty lucky recruiting such a fine group of reliable people for beta testing.

Course, if you are referring to people actually liking the dev, well then shame on us for being humans capable of emotions.

According to the public forum the founders have yet to be decided. I stopped reading there regularly weeks ago after I got tired of Ecoinomist's thinly veiled 'I am a founder in the making and only those who make amazing contributions like me maybe deemed worthy of becoming one' posts on a daily basis. Well done Ecoinomist with what in my opinion looks like a shitty Internet Explorer logo ripoff.

I'm sure I could become a founder myself if I beta tested more and kissed ass in the chatbox every night but some negative experiences there have put me off the community and I am pursuing my own projects now.

Well the big issue with the founders is that a lot of people have the tag but do not participate. Discussions about that (both on the forum and troll box) were mainly about how to weed out those who didn't help the project and to reward newer members who are busting their asses trying to help.

Please, pm me (here or there). I am curious on what your negative experiences were.

[JohnyBigs]

What Dan does not need is sycophants. You are useless and in fact detrimental.

The entire emunie forum is full of people kissing ass hoping to get crowned 'founder' status by Dan so they get given some of the pre-mined coins.

Actually, the founders have pretty much been established... they were pretty lucky recruiting such a fine group of reliable people for beta testing.

Course, if you are referring to people actually liking the dev, well then shame on us for being humans capable of emotions.

According to the public forum the founders have yet to be decided. I stopped reading there regularly weeks ago after I got tired of Ecoinomist's thinly veiled 'I am a founder in the making and only those who make amazing contributions like me maybe deemed worthy of becoming one' posts on a daily basis. Well done Ecoinomist with what in my opinion looks like a shitty Internet Explorer logo ripoff.

I'm sure I could become a founder myself if I beta tested more and kissed ass in the chatbox every night but some negative experiences there have put me off the community and I am pursuing my own projects now.

Actually, I was invited to beta signed for the forum, and instantly made a founder with zero ass kissing or beta testing, as were most of the first people who accepted and signed up. If having a founders badge is the most important thing to some people than all hope is lost haha.

Yes compare the SolidCoin dev, to a dev who was created a technology like NFC, again it seems all of you guys seem butthurt that fuserleer is actually getting shit done while you circle jerk each other off. Ohh there is not enough info about this and that, wait for the white paper to come out, but I'm pretty sure there won't be enough info then too. When it's open source, I'm sure you'll all complain about something else also haha.

[Etlase2]

Yes compare the SolidCoin dev, to a dev who was created a technology like NFC,

Created NFC? Not according to the horse's mouth. But subtleties tend to be lost on mouth breathers. And when video games and near field communication apps are in the same universe as a distributed currency network, let me know.

again it seems all of you guys seem butthurt that fuserleer is actually getting shit done while you circle jerk each other off.

Oh look, ad hominems in lieu of any whit of valuable discussion. Such progress.

[eCoinomist]

The problem is when emotions get in the way of common sense. This silliness that the dev can do no wrong is very reminiscent of SolidCoin during its initial...

I'm not sure about other members in eMunie forum (which you like to call "ass kissing" people), but I sure was the first one to question the legitimacy of eMunie system.
http://forum.emunie.com/threads/emunie-hoarding.11/

And surely I did not have to kiss anyone's ass to get a founder status, I simply signed up and got it within a day without asking. If you believe it's all about kissing asses, then keep thinking so, I don't care what you think of me

According to the public forum the founders have yet to be decided. I stopped reading there regularly weeks ago after I got tired of Ecoinomist's thinly veiled 'I am a founder in the making and only those who make amazing contributions like me maybe deemed worthy of becoming one' posts on a daily basis. Well done Ecoinomist with what in my opinion looks like a shitty Internet Explorer logo ripoff.

I hear you want free lunch, good on you, go get some XPM with my guide, why bother with EMU? No one makes you!
PS. I stopped making posts for a week now because of work, don't quite get where your "daily basis" is coming from.
As for the logo, I'd love to see your face when the special "e" dollar sign gets made in keyboards 20 years from now. (there are already keyboards with "e" browser symbol)

I'm sure I could become a founder myself if I beta tested more and kissed ass in the chatbox every night but some negative experiences there have put me off the community and I am pursuing my own projects now.

You mention negative experiences, but fail to mention specifically what is negative, so until you clarify that I shall assume it's just another trolling attempt.

[mechs]

The problem is when emotions get in the way of common sense. This silliness that the dev can do no wrong is very reminiscent of SolidCoin during its initial...

I'm not sure about other members in eMunie forum (which you like to call "ass kissing" people), but I sure was the first one to question the legitimacy of eMunie system.
http://forum.emunie.com/threads/emunie-hoarding.11/

And surely I did not have to kiss anyone's ass to get a founder status, I simply signed up and got it within a day without asking. If you believe it's all about kissing asses, then keep thinking so, I don't care what you think of me

According to the public forum the founders have yet to be decided. I stopped reading there regularly weeks ago after I got tired of Ecoinomist's thinly veiled 'I am a founder in the making and only those who make amazing contributions like me maybe deemed worthy of becoming one' posts on a daily basis. Well done Ecoinomist with what in my opinion looks like a shitty Internet Explorer logo ripoff.

I hear you want free lunch, good on you, go get some XPM with my guide, why bother with EMU? No one makes you!
PS. I stopped making posts for a week now because of work, don't quite get where your "daily basis" is coming from.

I'm sure I could become a founder myself if I beta tested more and kissed ass in the chatbox every night but some negative experiences there have put me off the community and I am pursuing my own projects now.

You mention negative experiences, but fail to mention specifically what is negative, so until you clarify that I shall assume it's just another trolling attempt.

You guys really should just stop posting here.  You come off as a bunch of jackasses and if this is the PR you are doing for this eMunie project, it would be better served with your silence. 

[eCoinomist]

@mechs, don't worry, I'm sure some people are just having fun here!

No serious investors would be lurking around this forum.

But I agree about your point. I tried to talk sense to these people, but it did not work, so let's just have fun with them lol.

[Etlase2]

I'm not sure about other members in eMunie forum (which you like to call "ass kissing" people), but I sure was the first one to question the legitimacy of eMunie system.
http://forum.emunie.com/threads/emunie-hoarding.11/

The posts that say "etlase2" next to them are the ones that I write, not any others. I used the word sycophant.

Questioning the legitimacy of a poorly designed monetary system is secondary to scalability and security issues. Hell, it's tertiary. Mistakes like these:

"As [interest is] also capped at 1EMU [per account],"

Are not critical vulnerabilities, but they suggest a lack of true game theory design development. Not a good sign combined with the fact that we don't even have any details on how basic transactions work.

[AgentME]

@mechs, don't worry, I'm sure some people are just having fun here!

No serious investors would be lurking around this forum.

But I agree about your point. I tried to talk sense to these people, but it did not work, so let's just have fun with them lol.

You had serious criticisms raised here, so you're just going to claim everyone here isn't serious? What?

[eCoinomist]

@Etlase2, not sure what you're trying to pick up on, but I shall remind you that eMunie is an "agile" development project, it's not Bitcoin and will never be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development

[Etlase2]

@Etlase2, not sure what you're trying to pick up on,

Imagine that.

but I shall remind you that eMunie is an "agile" development project, it's not Bitcoin and will never be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development

Agile of course being another word for centralized. It is not an excuse for flawed designs, nor is it really a solution.

[eCoinomist]

@mechs, don't worry, I'm sure some people are just having fun here!

No serious investors would be lurking around this forum.

But I agree about your point. I tried to talk sense to these people, but it did not work, so let's just have fun with them lol.

You had serious criticisms raised here, so you're just going to claim everyone here isn't serious? What?

People serious enough about eMunie project post questions and concerns on forum.emunie.com, not in this particular thread, which by the title and description of OP :

Who's excited for this new virtual crypto?

seems to suggest it's all about your feeling and emotions

[AgentME]

@Etlase2, not sure what you're trying to pick up on, but I shall remind you that eMunie is an "agile" development project, it's not Bitcoin and will never be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development

How does that preclude descriptions of how anything works?

[notlist3d]

Any date when Emunie will be released?

[broken_pixel]

Can I see the source code? Oh wait, its not open source.

[ohiwastedmylif]

Can I see the source code? Oh wait, its not open source.

[CoinEntropy]

http://forum.emunie.com/ - check out this for release dates, updates, discussions, etc.

[mechs]

Why did you guys pick the Internet Explorer icon as symbol of the currency?  It is basically synonymous with closed source, poorly run, bloat-ware.  Oh, wait, now I get it.

[CoinEntropy]

Why did you guys pick the Internet Explorer icon as symbol of the currency?  It is basically synonymous with closed source, poorly run, bloat-ware.  Oh, wait, now I get it.

Continuation of the previous line of wit, try to be original next time 

[smscotten]

There are thousands of developers creating open source software with Agile methodology.

But the bottom line here is trust. I hope you get that.

Phil Zimmerman's PGP made such a big splash not because it was such strong encryption—public key encryption had been around for over a decade—but because the cryptographic strength did not lie in obscurity, it was in the math. So it was released to the world source code and all and could not be taken back. It created a life of its own because it could be trusted. It could be reviewed by anyone to ensure that there were (are) no government (or other) back-doors. People knew it could be counted on because even if they didn't know the math or know how to read source code, they could find someone of their own choosing to look it over and make sure it was safe. The strength is in the transparency. Every detail of how it works has to be open to scrutiny because that's the only way you know that it works.

I'm not an open source zealot. I use a closed-source word processor, closed-source graphics software, a closed-source database manager, play closed-source games. Heck, I might even use a closed-source Bit(or other)coin wallet if I had reason to trust the developer. But not if I didn't know that the system worked exactly the same way on open-source versions. The backbone of the monetary system is like a privacy system. There is only one way to be trusted, and that is transparency.

Please read https://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/faq/index.html

Government controls money because it is too important to be left in the hands of private interests. Bitcoin's existence is a declaration that money is too important to be left in the hands of government, and that money needs to exist as a transparent ecosystem. That bell can't be unrung. A closed-source cryptocoin, even with a promise that someday it will be opensourced, is not one but two steps backward to privately-issued money.

The assumption really has to be that if we can't see the source, that you will be placing all sorts of devious software into the code, which you will let run for a year before removing and releasing the new version without all the nastiness. Even if I believe you when you say you won't do that, I have to assume that you will. You trust your mother, but you still cut the deck when you play cards with her. Trust, but verify.

An open source monetary system gives us liberty. A closed source monetary system at best gives us license.

You will do whatever you will do, but I hope that you will take the time to consider the opportunity for advancement that you are planning to squander and dispose of.

[digitalindustry]

........

I'm not an open source zealot.

When it comes to Cryptocurrency I am.


Government controls money because it is too important to be left in the hands of private interests. Bitcoin's existence is a declaration that money is too important to be left in the hands of government, and that money needs to exist as a transparent ecosystem. That bell can't be unrung. A closed-source cryptocoin, even with a promise that someday it will be opensourced, is not one but two steps backward to privately-issued money.

oops - Government doesn't control Money the, for example USD is far out of the control of US Government - as is most Fiat of other nations , most money is issued by a signature of a person or entity that wishes to go into debt , in this way Banking Corporations ( mostly "Commercial" ) issue most of a nations "money" the Government can't control these in any way , there is ample evidence to suggest this , at best Government can limp along with its own eventual system destruction.

The assumption really has to be that if we can't see the source, that you will be placing all sorts of devious software into the code, which you will let run for a year before removing and releasing the new version without all the nastiness. Even if I believe you when you say you won't do that, I have to assume that you will. You trust your mother, but you still cut the deck when you play cards with her. Trust, but verify.

An open source monetary system gives us liberty. A closed source monetary system at best gives us license.



You will do whatever you will do, but I hope that you will take the time to consider the opportunity for advancement that you are planning to squander and dispose of.

I like this statement

[jarhed]

TL:DR
Closed source

/thread

[eCoinomist]

Ok, so I hear many of you screaming the two reasons for eMunie's failure:

1) closed source for 12 months in order to stress-test the system and avoid silly things like forced Bitcoin-qt update
2) logo resembling IE? with professional looking "" $ sign that for some reason looks more innovative than the rest of the bunch

 
So if eMunie fails it's either because of Dan or because of me or because of the eMunie community, fair enough!
We get it.
Anything else?

[AgentME]

There are thousands of developers creating open source software with Agile methodology.

But the bottom line here is trust. I hope you get that.

Phil Zimmerman's PGP made such a big splash not because it was such strong encryption—public key encryption had been around for over a decade—but because the cryptographic strength did not lie in obscurity, it was in the math. So it was released to the world source code and all and could not be taken back. It created a life of its own because it could be trusted. It could be reviewed by anyone to ensure that there were (are) no government (or other) back-doors. People knew it could be counted on because even if they didn't know the math or know how to read source code, they could find someone of their own choosing to look it over and make sure it was safe. The strength is in the transparency. Every detail of how it works has to be open to scrutiny because that's the only way you know that it works.

I'm not an open source zealot. I use a closed-source word processor, closed-source graphics software, a closed-source database manager, play closed-source games. Heck, I might even use a closed-source Bit(or other)coin wallet if I had reason to trust the developer. But not if I didn't know that the system worked exactly the same way on open-source versions. The backbone of the monetary system is like a privacy system. There is only one way to be trusted, and that is transparency.

Please read https://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/faq/index.html

Government controls money because it is too important to be left in the hands of private interests. Bitcoin's existence is a declaration that money is too important to be left in the hands of government, and that money needs to exist as a transparent ecosystem. That bell can't be unrung. A closed-source cryptocoin, even with a promise that someday it will be opensourced, is not one but two steps backward to privately-issued money.

The assumption really has to be that if we can't see the source, that you will be placing all sorts of devious software into the code, which you will let run for a year before removing and releasing the new version without all the nastiness. Even if I believe you when you say you won't do that, I have to assume that you will. You trust your mother, but you still cut the deck when you play cards with her. Trust, but verify.

An open source monetary system gives us liberty. A closed source monetary system at best gives us license.

You will do whatever you will do, but I hope that you will take the time to consider the opportunity for advancement that you are planning to squander and dispose of.

That's an excellent post.

1) closed source for 12 months in order to stress-test the system and avoid silly things like forced Bitcoin-qt update

What does being closed source have anything to do with updates?

[ohiwastedmylif]

What does being closed source have anything to do with updates?

Not agreeing with them at all, but closed source allows them to protect IP for as long as possible and prevent competitors from copying code.

I read in the forums another reason for it being closed-source was that it would allow them to push out updates, hard forks / forks, without the need to update clients and whatnot. The coin is not using the normal QT but rather a Java application so the update system will be different I would assume.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[smscotten]

Ok, so I hear many of you screaming the two reasons for eMunie's failure:

1) closed source for 12 months in order to stress-test the system and avoid silly things like forced Bitcoin-qt update
2) logo resembling IE? with professional looking "" $ sign that for some reason looks more innovative than the rest of the bunch

 
So if eMunie fails it's either because of Dan or because of me or because of the eMunie community, fair enough!
We get it.
Anything else?

I got no problem with your logo. And I never said that you would fail. I'm saying that you have responded to a need with something that doesn't fulfill the need. It's like you're a Tory showing up in a New Jersey bar in 1777, wondering why you're getting dirty looks after wondering aloud how Parliament will finally deal with those pesky colonials.

I don't pretend to predict whether your coin will be a success or a failure. I hope it personally makes you a lot of wealth. But you are fighting against the side of freedom and that's not a fight I would want to take up. I can understand how you might be kind of butthurt about the response here to a project you have every right to be proud of, but you ought not be surprised that people who are fervent about transparency wouldn't support a closed-source money.

Even just for twelve months. "Closed source only for the first twelve months" is like saying "drink up! The poison is only in the top half of the cup."

[GSnak]

Not really, since no one is compelled by anything to use this coin. Also, the chances of mass public adoption within the first 12 months are low.

[AgentME]

Not really, since no one is compelled by anything to use this coin. Also, the chances of mass public adoption within the first 12 months are low.

That sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you make it closed source at first because you don't think it will be popular anyway at first. Not getting popular ever is also a possibility.

[eCoinomist]

I don't pretend to predict whether your coin will be a success or a failure. I hope it personally makes you a lot of wealth. But you are fighting against the side of freedom and that's not a fight I would want to take up. I can understand how you might be kind of butthurt about the response here to a project you have every right to be proud of, but you ought not be surprised that people who are fervent about transparency wouldn't support a closed-source money.

First, it's not a "coin". Second, it's not mine, I only did graphic stuffs. And I don't intend to fight against anything you've mentioned. This is community project, has never been and will never be mine. Don't understand where did you get hat info from.

Dan, the founder, hasn't posted a thing in this thread.

lol, and no way can I be butthurt, the only person who may be is Etlase2. As a professional designer, I know better than any trolls in this btt forum when something is mimic, similar or just copy-cat. And my logo design clearly falls into none. Besides using the same letter e, there is literally zero similarity with IE logo. If they are similar, then Facebook must have been successful at accusing Twitter of copying their logo icon by simply reverting the "f" letter to "t"!!!

Upset trolls will always do what they can, and that means clinging to personal attacks. Sorry to disappoint, but so far I'm not hurt even slightly ROFL  

[Etlase2]

I am not butthurt, and especially not about your logo as your poor formatting would seem to imply. I called out bitcoin's bullshit within a week of learning of it, and my account was squelched, that is why this one is named Etlase2. I have also not resorted to personal attacks--referring to the fact that you lack significant knowledge in the area of distributed networking is not a personal attack, it is the obvious truth. Whenever I bring this up, you ignore it because you know it is true. Have I called out the emunie devs for being full of shit? Absolutely, as is my right to post on the internet until the local powers that be decide I need to be silenced. I'm not giving emunie any leeway because of promises and wishes, facts need to be provided, plain and simple. When that starts happening, I will shut up about the lack of facts and spend a little time on pointing out flaws if I can find any. To interpret this as being butthurt is your prerogative, but all it does is reek of fanboyism and continuing the lie-filled PR box surrounding cryptocurrencies that started with the huge pyramid scheme known as bitcoin.

[mrvegad]

What does being closed source have anything to do with updates?

Not agreeing with them at all, but closed source allows them to protect IP for as long as possible and prevent competitors from copying code.

I read in the forums another reason for it being closed-source was that it would allow them to push out updates, hard forks / forks, without the need to update clients and whatnot. The coin is not using the normal QT but rather a Java application so the update system will be different I would assume.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

The beta is in java but the final client will be in c++

[ohiwastedmylif]

What does being closed source have anything to do with updates?

Not agreeing with them at all, but closed source allows them to protect IP for as long as possible and prevent competitors from copying code.

I read in the forums another reason for it being closed-source was that it would allow them to push out updates, hard forks / forks, without the need to update clients and whatnot. The coin is not using the normal QT but rather a Java application so the update system will be different I would assume.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

The beta is in java but the final client will be in c++

Yes but will still within a Java application and not using the typical QT.

[Etlase2]

The "typical" QT? emunie is not a bitcoin clone, buddy.

[eCoinomist]

I am not butthurt, and especially not about your logo as your poor formatting would seem to imply. I called out bitcoin's bullshit within a week of learning of it, and my account was squelched, that is why this one is named Etlase2. I have also not resorted to personal attacks--referring to the fact that you lack significant knowledge in the area of distributed networking is not a personal attack, it is the obvious truth. Whenever I bring this up, you ignore it because you know it is true. Have I called out the emunie devs for being full of shit? Absolutely, as is my right to post on the internet until the local powers that be decide I need to be silenced. I'm not giving emunie any leeway because of promises and wishes, facts need to be provided, plain and simple. When that starts happening, I will shut up about the lack of facts and spend a little time on pointing out flaws if I can find any. To interpret this as being butthurt is your prerogative, but all it does is reek of fanboyism and continuing the lie-filled PR box surrounding cryptocurrencies that started with the huge pyramid scheme known as bitcoin.

Agree, my formatting was pure, in the rush to push post button. What I meant to imply is that you are butthurt because Dan took your ideas and implemented them while you are still musing over your white paper, which Dan still seems to lack to date. I did not imply that you were resorting to personal attacks, it were the other people, I know you just want your factual questions answered, which none of us who have posted inthis thread has been able to answer so far.

And just to clarify, my ideas regarding filtering MAC Addresses are not silly, I was well aware of the fact that it can be gamed, but your too technical mind never seemed to understand the real purpose of doing so - it was to make gaming the system costly and troublesome, not impossible.

People only want to break rules when there is an economic advantage for them to do so. Take that economic advantage away and they wouldn't even bother doing it.

[ohiwastedmylif]

The "typical" QT? emunie is not a bitcoin clone, buddy.

I'm not your buddy, guy!

[Etlase2]

What I meant to imply is that you are butthurt because Dan took your ideas and implemented them while you are still musing over your white paper, which Dan still seems to lack to date.

I am not musing over a whitepaper having never had an intention to write one. I have been musing over how to make sure everything can work rather than diving into coding something with various and numerous flaws. From this, I have a fairly unique perspective on how to design a cryptocurrency that is not reliant on proof-of-work for its security, nor centralization. The emunie devs could benefit greatly from this, but would apparently rather protect the first-run flawed design and flawed philosophy of programming first and bugfixing second. This *is not* the correct way to do it. There are far too many things that can go wrong. And Dan did not take my ideas, at least not by any stretch that I can figure.

And just to clarify, my ideas regarding filtering MAC Addresses are not silly, I was well aware of the fact that it can be gamed, but your too technical mind never seemed to understand the real purpose of doing so - it was to make gaming the system costly and troublesome, not impossible.

MAC addresses are not transmitted over a WAN. MAC addresses are used to identify hardware over a local network, or hardware to an ISP to verify that you're a customer. They cannot be used to keep track of people connected to a distributed network. And they are easily spoofed. And there is no way to come to a distributed consensus as to what MAC addresses or IP addresses are connected to the network. It is a completely flawed premise. If you don't understand that--whatever. If Dan doesn't understand that, emunie has serious problems ahead of it.

[eCoinomist]

MAC addresses are not transmitted over a WAN.

What stops the client from retrieving MAC address from the device running it and distributing it to the network?

[Etlase2]

What stops the client from retrieving MAC address from the device running it and distributing it to the network?

:sigh: Open source software, for one. For two, it would be fairly trivial to detect and intercept a packet prior to it leaving the computer and replace the MAC address with anything, without having access to the source code. For three, whatever mechanism that is used for compiling a list of MAC addresses could be also easily intercepted and have added any number of addresses of a malicious node's choosing. A way around this would be to have some way to hide a private and common signing key in each client (assuming closed source, of course), but that would be fairly easily for any ASM hacker to break, too. If there were some way to obfuscate the signing key in memory from the computer itself (bitcoin could sure benefit from this knowledge because as of yet there is no such thing), even then there are side-channel attacks on ECDSA when one is in control of the hardware and it could eventually be broken, assuming anyone gave a shit to put the effort into it--which I think would be excessively unlikely as few if any would be using this software.

[eCoinomist]

What stops the client from retrieving MAC address from the device running it and distributing it to the network?

:sigh: Open source software, for one. For two, it would be fairly trivial to detect and intercept a packet prior to it leaving the computer and replace the MAC address with anything, without having access to the source code. For three, whatever mechanism that is used for compiling a list of MAC addresses could be also easily intercepted and have added any number of addresses of a malicious node's choosing. A way around this would be to have some way to hide a private and common signing key in each client (assuming closed source, of course), but that would be fairly easily for any ASM hacker to break, too. If there were some way to obfuscate the signing key in memory from the computer itself (bitcoin could sure benefit from this knowledge because as of yet there is no such thing), even then there are side-channel attacks on ECDSA when one is in control of the hardware and it could eventually be broken, assuming anyone gave a shit to put the effort into it--which I think would be excessively unlikely as few if any would be using this software.

There we go, in the earlier reply you said MAC addresses cannot be transmitted over WAN, and now you are just giving me a bunch of options on how that info can actually be retrieved!

And didn't I tell you in the first place that the MAC Adress thing in place wasn't designed to stop people from cheating? but just to make their life harder bit by bit? Beside, the things you mentioned only nerds like you can do, most people like me have never even heard of it. Which is all we ever need, as long the the majority of eMunie holders don't cheat, the minority who do will have little to zero impact on demand/supply model, which the whole MAC addresses filtering was designed for.

I don't know why you even decided to pick up on MAC addresses again and again, sigh... as I'm sure in my original list of ideas, there were at least 8 of them.

[eCoinomist]

If you don't understand that--whatever. If Dan doesn't understand that, emunie has serious problems ahead of it.

So you think you understand and know everything? How come Decrits is still in paper?

You may be a good technical know how person, but honestly, I don't think you understand economics. Dan, however, understands both sides and that I know for a fact.

[Etlase2]

I said MAC addresses are not transmitted, not can not. As in, it is not part of the TCP/IP protocol, as in, anyone with the slightest bit of networking background should realize that any "MAC address" received by a peer can not be verified as valid in any way, shape, or form other than it is a 6-byte string. Ergo, it is a completely meaningless metric. "Here are 1 billion 6-byte strings, award me lots of emunie pls"--"prove it"--"here are 1 billion 6-byte strings"...

I picked up on MAC addresses again and again because it is an easy one to poke holes in and show that you are not qualified to be making suggestions of this nature.

I shall go line by line quickly if you want:

1) Total balance of hatchers. -- Relies on a small, unpredictable subset of people who can collude, likely not even on purpose, to create more money for themselves. The basis of new money creation is one where hatchers are paid significantly more of the new money than the rest of the network as a reward for service. How hatchers come to be and how they acquire transactions and how they prove work are all completely unanswered questions, so there is little to do but grossly speculate on how those systems can be abused to put nefarious people in control of the hatchers and collude on purpose.
2-5) Are all essentially based on the "emugraph" concept which is likely unscalable to any reasonable degree (how much information must be kept, how often must this information be accessed, how is a consensus on what this information is reached, etc.) -- and again there is no information at all as to how it works so specific attacks can't be easily surmised at this point. But as I have already stated to your head which seems to be firmly planted in the sand--this will be easily manipulated in an open source protocol. If emunie is to remain closed source, it would be significantly more difficult to game (but far from impossible), but also completely untrustworthy.
6) Is irrelevant
7-8) Both rely on clients reporting honest information in a distributed network. It is a complete failure of design that ignores any notion of a sybil attack. It also somehow presumes that this information can be transmitted and agreed upon by a multitude of nodes who have no way of proving whatsoever that the information is reliable. It is ridiculously easy to game. No cost other than the small amount of time required to reverse engineer a very small part of the network protocol in the case of closed source, or compile in a few extra lines in open source.

[Etlase2]

You may be a good technical know how person, but honestly, I don't think you understand economics. Dan, however, understands both sides and that I know for a fact.

Economics is irrelevant. As I have said, the monetary scheme is tertiary to the security of the protocol. Maybe Dan understands "both", maybe he doesn't, but he has been unwilling or unable to provide a defense for the obvious vulnerabilities in his so-written design. I think the reality is that Dan knows how to program, but he does not know how to truly design a defensible system of this nature. Or perhaps he does, but he has made a very big mistake in attempting to work on the code without fully fleshing out the design. That is going to cost him a lot of time in rewriting the protocol over and over.

So you think you understand and know everything? How come Decrits is still in paper?

This is of course irrelevant to the topic at hand, but the answer is quite simply because I did take the other route in design, one where I would be confident in the proposed design before attempting to program it. I also spent a significant amount of time researching cryptography, network protocols (and the attacks that can be made on them), economics and monetary systems, and more. Dan hasn't mentioned even a whit about the cryptography or the network protocol used in emunie. This is scary and should be ringing alarm bells.

[philipkdick]

I'm no C++ coder but  I know people in fairly advanced areas of network security , MAC is completely flawed as per Etlase explains .  Its just a supposed  " Hard code identifier "  that runs on a certain protocol but it is easily faked .

[Lohoris]

That sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you make it closed source at first because you don't think it will be popular anyway at first. Not getting popular ever is also a possibility.

Exactly, that's what I tried to explain several times, but he's just a troll and didn't care about that.
He came here, we helped him, he scorned us.
Now he can just fuck off, as far as I'm concerned.

[AgentME]

I am not butthurt, and especially not about your logo as your poor formatting would seem to imply. I called out bitcoin's bullshit within a week of learning of it, and my account was squelched, that is why this one is named Etlase2. I have also not resorted to personal attacks--referring to the fact that you lack significant knowledge in the area of distributed networking is not a personal attack, it is the obvious truth. Whenever I bring this up, you ignore it because you know it is true. Have I called out the emunie devs for being full of shit? Absolutely, as is my right to post on the internet until the local powers that be decide I need to be silenced. I'm not giving emunie any leeway because of promises and wishes, facts need to be provided, plain and simple. When that starts happening, I will shut up about the lack of facts and spend a little time on pointing out flaws if I can find any. To interpret this as being butthurt is your prerogative, but all it does is reek of fanboyism and continuing the lie-filled PR box surrounding cryptocurrencies that started with the huge pyramid scheme known as bitcoin.

Agree, my formatting was pure, in the rush to push post button. What I meant to imply is that you are butthurt because Dan took your ideas and implemented them while you are still musing over your white paper, which Dan still seems to lack to date. I did not imply that you were resorting to personal attacks, it were the other people, I know you just want your factual questions answered, which none of us who have posted inthis thread has been able to answer so far.

And just to clarify, my ideas regarding filtering MAC Addresses are not silly, I was well aware of the fact that it can be gamed, but your too technical mind never seemed to understand the real purpose of doing so - it was to make gaming the system costly and troublesome, not impossible.

People only want to break rules when there is an economic advantage for them to do so. Take that economic advantage away and they wouldn't even bother doing it.

lolol, you're going to check MAC addresses to tell people apart?

If you make something just slightly hard to be gamed, but not impossible to be gamed, then the fewer people who do game it will just profit much more. I'd thank you for helping me profit, if there were a chance in hell I was going to use eMunie.

[notlist3d]

Mac addresses.... come on.  This is a laughable security feature.  You realize the entire first half is the manufacture.  There goes 1/2 of your entire security.

So by brute forcing last half just on major manufacture's mac's .... you will find chances are quite a few users mac's.

And how is it costly at all?  Timely... maybe depending on how many you can do until security cuts it off. 

[billotronic]

apt-get install macchanger -y

ifconfig eth1 down
macchanger -r eth1
ifconfig eth1 up

rinse repeat

[eCoinomist]

Mac addresses.... come on.  This is a laughable security feature.  You realize the entire first half is the manufacture.  There goes 1/2 of your entire security.

So by brute forcing last half just on major manufacture's mac's .... you will find chances are quite a few users mac's.

And how is it costly at all?  Timely... maybe depending on how many you can do until security cuts it off.  

Sigh, I don't know where your understanding level is at, read the article, MAC addresses are never going to be used for "Security" and stop making false security claim when you don't even understand a bit how it works.

PS. so as I understand your time isn't worth anything. Ok that's understandble, but my time is worth money, that's why something that takes me time costs me money.

If you make something just slightly hard to be gamed, but not impossible to be gamed, then the fewer people who do game it will just profit much more. I'd thank you for helping me profit, if there were a chance in hell I was going to use eMunie.

Same thing, you don't even understand that it is used to determine supply/demand, nothing to do with your proiftability!

And as long as 99% of the people using eMunie don't know how to spoof Mac Addresses, your own tiny network counts towards nothing and it's not even tired to profitability, not sure how you can even profit by successfully spoofing mac addresses, as far I'm concerned.

Go ahead and cheat, but unless you manage to convince everyone else to do the same (which is not possible) your action literally has zero effect on manipulating the network.

I shall emphasize again:

We don't need to prevent nerds like you from cheating to have a reliable demand/supply system, we just need to stop the regular Joe from doing so.

As far as security concerned, none of my above 8 ideas suggested are in any way related to security!
And I never talked about security in this thread because I never claimed to understand how it works, so dump assumptions regarding security based on my posts can be totally ignored .

[notlist3d]

Mac addresses.... come on.  This is a laughable security feature.  You realize the entire first half is the manufacture.  There goes 1/2 of your entire security.

So by brute forcing last half just on major manufacture's mac's .... you will find chances are quite a few users mac's.

And how is it costly at all?  Timely... maybe depending on how many you can do until security cuts it off.  

Sigh, I don't know where your understanding level is at, read the article, MAC addresses are never going to be used for "Security" and stop making false security claim when you don't even understand a bit how it works.

If your using mac addresses for anything related to this coin its a stupid idea.  Do you not agree the first half of mac is manufacture?

Guess what miners have common boards they all like .... this makes it where you can target specific groups pretty easy.

[eCoinomist]

I said MAC addresses are not transmitted, not can not. As in, it is not part of the TCP/IP protocol, as in, anyone with the slightest bit of networking background should realize that any "MAC address" received by a peer can not be verified as valid in any way, shape, or form other than it is a 6-byte string. Ergo, it is a completely meaningless metric. "Here are 1 billion 6-byte strings, award me lots of emunie pls"--"prove it"--"here are 1 billion 6-byte strings"...

I picked up on MAC addresses again and again because it is an easy one to poke holes in and show that you are not qualified to be making suggestions of this nature.

I shall go line by line quickly if you want:

1) Total balance of hatchers. -- Relies on a small, unpredictable subset of people who can collude, likely not even on purpose, to create more money for themselves. The basis of new money creation is one where hatchers are paid significantly more of the new money than the rest of the network as a reward for service. How hatchers come to be and how they acquire transactions and how they prove work are all completely unanswered questions, so there is little to do but grossly speculate on how those systems can be abused to put nefarious people in control of the hatchers and collude on purpose.
2-5) Are all essentially based on the "emugraph" concept which is likely unscalable to any reasonable degree (how much information must be kept, how often must this information be accessed, how is a consensus on what this information is reached, etc.) -- and again there is no information at all as to how it works so specific attacks can't be easily surmised at this point. But as I have already stated to your head which seems to be firmly planted in the sand--this will be easily manipulated in an open source protocol. If emunie is to remain closed source, it would be significantly more difficult to game (but far from impossible), but also completely untrustworthy.
6) Is irrelevant
7-8) Both rely on clients reporting honest information in a distributed network. It is a complete failure of design that ignores any notion of a sybil attack. It also somehow presumes that this information can be transmitted and agreed upon by a multitude of nodes who have no way of proving whatsoever that the information is reliable. It is ridiculously easy to game. No cost other than the small amount of time required to reverse engineer a very small part of the network protocol in the case of closed source, or compile in a few extra lines in open source.

Did you realize that none of your criticism is new? they were all already asked and most probably answered in the same thread I linked to.

[eCoinomist]

Economics is irrelevant.

Ok, I already knew before where you are at and why Decrits is unlikely to ever land on my computer

[AgentME]

If you make something just slightly hard to be gamed, but not impossible to be gamed, then the fewer people who do game it will just profit much more. I'd thank you for helping me profit, if there were a chance in hell I was going to use eMunie.

Same thing, you don't even understand that it is used to determine supply/demand, nothing to do with your proiftability!

And as long as 99% of the people using eMunie don't know how to spoof Mac Addresses, your own tiny network counts towards nothing and it's not even tired to profitability, not sure how you can even profit by successfully spoofing mac addresses, as far I'm concerned.

Go ahead and cheat, but unless you manage to convince everyone else to do the same (which is not possible) your action literally has zero effect on manipulating the network.

I shall emphasize again:

We don't need to prevent nerds like you from cheating to have a reliable demand/supply system, we just need to stop the regular Joe from doing so.

As far as security concerned, none of my above 8 ideas suggested are in any way related to security!
And I never talked about security in this thread because I never claimed to understand how it works, so dump assumptions regarding security based on my posts can be totally ignored .

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

[mrvegad]

Using MAC address is just ONE of the many ways to collect stats on the network. It is not being used just by itself, its a very small piece of the puzzle so gaming it won't have an affect on the overall strength of the network.

[AgentME]

Using MAC address is just ONE of the many ways to collect stats on the network. It is not being used just by itself, its a very small piece of the puzzle.

Are all of the pieces just as hilariously easy to exploit? This isn't promising at all.

[mrvegad]

Using MAC address is just ONE of the many ways to collect stats on the network. It is not being used just by itself, its a very small piece of the puzzle.

Are all of the pieces just as hilariously easy to exploit? This isn't promising at all.

This will not affect the overall strength of the network, it is only used for stats and there are other more secure pieces in place to protect it.

[eCoinomist]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

How many times do I have to explain to your straight-forward-simple-thinking that even if you successfully pretend to be 99% of the network, the pure fact is that 99% of all EMU still belong to the rest 1% honest nodes, so your 99% of nodes effort went out of the window, it has no weight or hope on influencing anything. This is just pure and simple example, not taken into consideration about relationship between accounts, trading history, aged vs new EMU, hatcher's trust, etc. - the list goes on.

Are all of the pieces just as hilariously easy to exploit? This isn't promising at all.

Yes, hilariously easy to exploit AND hilariously easy to discount!

I'm sorry, your criticism isn't anything new either, all of your wicked hacking ideas have already been asked and answered in our forum.

[AgentME]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

How many times do I have to explain to your straight-forward-simple-thinking that even if you successfully pretend to be 99% of the network, the pure fact is that 99% of all EMU still belong to the rest 1% honest nodes, so your 99% of nodes effort went out of the window, it has no weight or hope on influencing anything. This is just pure and simple example, not taken into consideration about relationship between accounts, trading history, aged vs new EMU, hatcher's trust, etc. - the list goes on.

Are all of the pieces just as hilariously easy to exploit? This isn't promising at all.

Yes, hilariously easy to exploit AND hilariously easy to discount!

I'm sorry, your criticism isn't anything new either, all of your wicked hacking ideas have already been asked and answered in our forum.

If it's hilariously easy to discount too, why even bother doing it in the first place? It just adds another apparent layer of incompetence to it all.

[Etlase2]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

Don't be so silly Agent, artificial intelligence will detect and stop you.

ecoinomist, fuserleer has been online, is he going to respond to my fairly simple question here: http://forum.emunie.com/threads/how-do-hatchers-choose-transactions.194/ ?

[AgentME]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

Don't be so silly Agent, artificial intelligence will detect and stop you.

lolol. (Also, if an AI is going to be controlling the economy somehow... isn't that a centralized control? Why even attempt the bitcoin model if you're going to have explicit controls like this?)

[Foamy]

When is this going to launch? lol

[kelsey]

The 1% who understand it could also abuse it to look like more than the rest of the 99%. Whatever metrics depend on it could be gamed for profit or just to break the system. It doesn't matter if 99% of the legitimate users don't understand how to game it, if the 1% can pretend to look like ten times the legitimate network.

Don't be so silly Agent, artificial intelligence will detect and stop you.

lolol. (Also, if an AI is going to be controlling the economy somehow... isn't that a centralized control? Why even attempt the bitcoin model if you're going to have explicit controls like this?)

by that same argument btc has centralised control.

[eCoinomist]

ecoinomist, fuserleer has been online, is he going to respond to my fairly simple question here: http://forum.emunie.com/threads/how-do-hatchers-choose-transactions.194/ ?

Yes, he said a few days ago he would answer your questions squarely in white paper, but just hadn't got time to do so now. He mentioned the solution he has is different and better than originally proposed.

[Etlase2]

I won't be holding my breath.

[TheRealSolid]

I've had a general overlook at this and it seems like an interesting currency attempt. If it can deliver on what it says I'm interested in adding it to mcxNOW when it launches.

In regards to etlase2, he was highly critical of MicroCash too, talking about how much better his implementation of certain economic policy was IIRC. He seems a bit high strung if you ask me. No offense etlase2 Have you released that currency you were talking about a year ago yet?

[Etlase2]

lol the guy who bases currency creation on gambling has arrived

[TheRealSolid]

lol the guy who bases currency creation on gambling has arrived

What we know. Everything etlase thinks is right is right. Everything else is wrong and emotionally so.

A little less talk/theory from you and some more implementation of your "great" ideas would be nice.

[eCoinomist]

I've had a general overlook at this and it seems like an interesting currency attempt. If it can deliver on what it says I'm interested in adding it to mcxNOW when it launches.

Not all of eMunie features will be available right on the first launch, you do realise that they come in phases, right?

[eCoinomist]

In a few years, everybody will have his own coin. All having a coin=no coins to trade.

You can have your own coin, but without adoption, it does not exist. Just like a website without traffic, no matter how pretty or beautiful it is, no matter how much money/time/energy you spent on developing it, without traffic, it does not have an online presence - it does not exist.

I have built dozens of websites to date, including this one, and I know when something has the potential to take off, it's the gut feeling entrepreneurs have when they see a real opportunity.

The great thing I see in eMunie project is not it's flawed system as proposed initially, nor it's new refined system as posted recently, but the determination and vision of its people, and the adaptable approach that it takes at every step of the way.

It's not the technology that determines success or failure, it's the people behind the technology.
Great people is the only real asset for any aspiring digital currency.