Piper Paper Wallet - Why are there no replies???

[acoindr]

How does this improve over the paper wallet functionality in Armory (on a permanently offline computer with a fresh OS of course)?

I guess it doesn't, really. The Armory version will give you a more stable printout, but you have to have an offline computer and printer and get all the software set up. With Piper you just press a button. Of course then you have to take better care of the printouts as discussed.

There is no single killer solution yet. Every option has pros and cons and can work better for some users depending on their specific use case. However, I think the Trezor for now provides the best combination of ease of use, unbeatable security, and range of functionality for coin management. It will be the silver bullet solution I think for a long while.

[acoindr]

With Armory you don't need a printer, just a pen and paper. It's more secure as well as you don't have to trust the buffer of the printer and your paper wallet looks far less generic.

Hmm, looking at Piper's FAQ page it's actually a full computer (Linux distro) allowing you to hook up peripherals like a different printer. You can also customize the wallets or just use pen and paper with it too. Copying addresses out by hand introduces human error and time into the equation, but yeah that's an option. There are lots of options with Bitcoin, however, Trezor seems most well rounded.

[AliceWonder]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=213946

That's not my project but I'm going to do something similar.

My plan is to make a bootable linux DVD with a minimal gui environment, TeXLive install, and a gui app that then creates paper wallets in similar fashion to what is at that link.

Output will be PDF, copy PDF to a thumb drive and then print on your regular printer.

With US Letter you can get 3 wallets per page that when cut will fit nicely into a standard security envelope.

What I'm actually thinking of doing is having it create 2 PDF files - one with the private keys (3 per page) and one using a standard label template that public keys can be printed on.

So you print your private keys (public also on it), put the label stock into your printer and print the public keys.

Put private key into security envelope, seal it, and put public key sticker on the outside.

The boot DVD does not need to bring any network interfaces up. Only security risk is the PDF files that you copy to the thumb drive and possibly printer buffer (or wireless network to printer) but if you have a linux friendly printer direct connected not even that issue exists as you can just print from the boot DVD.

LaTeX has cake QR code generation - (pst-barcode package) - and using something like python could easily generate the .tex files to feed it.

As far as a hardware device, there's no need for it.
A boot DVD is all you need.

[DobZombie]

The project is quite cool, but it is flawed.

The printer uses thermal paper. Thermal paper fades VERY quickly. Now that's a pretty big flaw.

If it was part of a throwaway quick use system (designed to be used imidiately) it could be useful.

If the designer changed it to your old style dot matrix printing I'd buy 2 of these right now.

[AliceWonder]

I suspect the reason why thermal is used is because laser too expensive and inkjet - the ink goes bad if it isn't used.

Most people are not going to be printing massive numbers of paper wallets.

That's why a boot DVD is better, you don't have to have hardware dedicated to something most people will use less than once a month. You can print from the printer you normally use to print from.

[elements]

Checked out Armory.

a) doesn't support Snow Leopard (Mac)

b) announcement that the client doesn't run - your money is safe you just can't reach it for the time being.

LOL - it's just funny!

[stevep]

The project is quite cool, but it is flawed.
The printer uses thermal paper. Thermal paper fades VERY quickly. Now that's a pretty big flaw.
If the designer changed it to your old style dot matrix printing I'd buy 2 of these right now.

I've been working on a paper wallet printing project for the last few months and just started a crowdfunding campaign.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitfrore-bitcoin-cold-paper-wallet-printer/x/3922568

I specifically chose a micro dot matrix printer as the basis because I was concerned about archiving thermal printouts.

I need support as its expensive to bootstrap a hardware company in the EU due to the necessary certifications,insurance and waste management costs.

If you're interested please pledge your support.

[stevep]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=213946
The boot DVD does not need to bring any network interfaces up. Only security risk is the PDF files that you copy to the thumb drive and possibly printer buffer (or wireless network to printer) but if you have a linux friendly printer direct connected not even that issue exists as you can just print from the boot DVD.
As far as a hardware device, there's no need for it.
A boot DVD is all you need.

I'm biased of course but  dedicated device has a much smaller attack surface.

The site used to host the DVD image can be compromised and the image replaced with one that generates predicatable wallets.

The computer used to burn the DVD may be compromised to recognize the iso image and modify it to generate predictable wallets.
This would be impossible to detect without a dedicated offline system that has never seen the internet to verify the integrity of the DVD.

The computer used to run the image may be compromised with a hypervisor rootkit that recognizes the DVD and again modify it to generate predictable wallets.
This is impossible to detect without a dedicated offline system that has never seen the internet to verify the integrity of the DVD.

These modifications would be as simple as crippling the RNG in the kernel.

These are hypothetical but more specific hacks have been written in the past (e.g. Stuxnet)

A dedicated device is still difficult to verify but at least its not a moving target like an malware infested machine "securely" booted from a DVD.

[greyhawk]

My understanding is the paper used keeps the image about 7 years.

No, it won't. They may say that, but it's not true.

Know what archivists do when they get given something to archive that's on thermal paper?

The usually tranquil and relaxed archivist goes batshit insane, cursing hell and heaven for about half an hour, trying to summon demons or angels to smite the retarded fuckup who tasked him with this idiocy.

After that fails he calmly walks over to the copier, makes a paper copy, files that and throws the thermal paper original away.

When his workday is over he walks into the nearest bar and drinks himself into a stupor while loudly and slurredly complaining about the mere existence of thermal paper.

[acoindr]

My understanding is the paper used keeps the image about 7 years.

No, it won't. They may say that, but it's not true.

Know what archivists do when they get given something to archive that's on thermal paper?

The usually tranquil and relaxed archivist goes batshit insane, cursing hell and heaven for about half an hour, trying to summon demons or angels to smite the retarded fuckup who tasked him with this idiocy.

After that fails he calmly walks over to the copier, makes a paper copy, files that and throws the thermal paper original away.

When his workday is over he walks into the nearest bar and drinks himself into a stupor while loudly and slurredly complaining about the mere existence of thermal paper.

lol

Yeah I think you're right. Something as questionable as thermal paper shouldn't even be offered for storing something of high potential value, even with digital backups. It's a false sense of security.

[elements]

The project is quite cool, but it is flawed.
The printer uses thermal paper. Thermal paper fades VERY quickly. Now that's a pretty big flaw.
If the designer changed it to your old style dot matrix printing I'd buy 2 of these right now.

I've been working on a paper wallet printing project for the last few months and just started a crowdfunding campaign.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitfrore-bitcoin-cold-paper-wallet-printer/x/3922568

I specifically chose a micro dot matrix printer as the basis because I was concerned about archiving thermal printouts.

I need support as its expensive to bootstrap a hardware company in the EU due to the necessary certifications,insurance and waste management costs.

If you're interested please pledge your support.

Bitfrore

That is almost impossible to pronounce. What does it mean?


Is the printing fine enough to support QR? I watched the video and the printed area seemed kind of faint.

Like the design!

How long do you think you need to produce this thing?
 

[Anon136]

The project is quite cool, but it is flawed.

The printer uses thermal paper. Thermal paper fades VERY quickly. Now that's a pretty big flaw.

If it was part of a throwaway quick use system (designed to be used imidiately) it could be useful.

If the designer changed it to your old style dot matrix printing I'd buy 2 of these right now.

it could work like that. you make your own money and fill your wallet up. then when you buy something you hand them the note. they import the private key and send the change to a specified address. since you were buying from retail stores you could expect them to be honest and send the correct change.

[greyhawk]

The project is quite cool, but it is flawed.

The printer uses thermal paper. Thermal paper fades VERY quickly. Now that's a pretty big flaw.

If it was part of a throwaway quick use system (designed to be used imidiately) it could be useful.

If the designer changed it to your old style dot matrix printing I'd buy 2 of these right now.

it could work like that. you make your own money and fill your wallet up. then when you buy something you hand them the note. they import the private key and send the change to a specified address. since you were buying from retail stores you could expect them to be honest and send the correct change.

They have these things called dollars or euros now that fulfill that role.

[abrkn]

-

[greyhawk]

We'd like to use something like paper to print wallets for Justcoin, but need durability (> 10 years)

Use acid-free, archive-save paper conforrming to ISO standard ISO 9706 and an electrostatic printing process (for instance laser printing). Do NOT use a colour printer, use a B/W only printer. Do NOT use refurbished or value toner cartridges (you never know what crap they put in there). Keep in a darkened environment. For archiving purposes lasting up to several hundred years use archival quality paper conforrming to ISO standard 11108.

[Mooshire]

Peter Piper made a wallet.

[christwill]

I think there isn't more enthusiasm because it's not a full solution. It doesn't address the coin spending side too.

The private keys can be imported to several interfaces, can't they?
So I imagine what you do is this:

a) take your bitcoin paper wallet (w1) from which you want to spend some coins

b) create a new paper wallet (w2)

c) import the whole balance to a client/an online wallet

d) keep what you want to spend there and send the remaining balance to your new paper wallet (w2)

Done.
Am I missing something?

What do you mean by 'it's not a full solution'?

It hink this guy has the right idea. i think something liek this could make BTC work flawlessly with POS systems.
You go out shopping you get to the store print out a wallet with a pin code on the private key you go grab what you want you hit the register you scan the private key wipe the funds and print your change on the receipt using the same pin code. then you could use your receipt from foot locker and go spend it at cinnabon or something. and at the end of the day you scan the code with your phone and put it back in your online account your cold storage or whatever.
I don't know if you guys have played slot machines in casinos these days but they print out vouchers that you put in the next machine or you can cash out. it works perfectly with them and if you think about it that is exactly the same market. slots use small transactions and and use vouchers to avoid the overwhelming amount of old style currency.

Personally if this had a couple things to make it into a full POS i would buy dozens of them and sell them to shop owners.
Another perk would be that shop owners could take cash for a purchase and offer their change in BTC. Helps the business since they are more likely to repeat business at a BTC friendly store and helps BTC all together.
Stores don't have to fumble with change you can have a secured form of cash that requires a personal pin and you can purchase things without leaving a footprint like visa.

I think something like this could make the whole idea of BTC viable to the normal public. us geeky folk just don't like watering down technology but its necessary for any technology to be adopted.

[davidgdg]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=213946

That's not my project but I'm going to do something similar.

My plan is to make a bootable linux DVD with a minimal gui environment, TeXLive install, and a gui app that then creates paper wallets in similar fashion to what is at that link.

Output will be PDF, copy PDF to a thumb drive and then print on your regular printer.

With US Letter you can get 3 wallets per page that when cut will fit nicely into a standard security envelope.

What I'm actually thinking of doing is having it create 2 PDF files - one with the private keys (3 per page) and one using a standard label template that public keys can be printed on.

So you print your private keys (public also on it), put the label stock into your printer and print the public keys.

Put private key into security envelope, seal it, and put public key sticker on the outside.

The boot DVD does not need to bring any network interfaces up. Only security risk is the PDF files that you copy to the thumb drive and possibly printer buffer (or wireless network to printer) but if you have a linux friendly printer direct connected not even that issue exists as you can just print from the boot DVD.

LaTeX has cake QR code generation - (pst-barcode package) - and using something like python could easily generate the .tex files to feed it.

As far as a hardware device, there's no need for it.
A boot DVD is all you need.

Agreed, though a key would be preferable to a DVD. The ideal solution is a plug-in USB key that is pre-loaded with Linux and will print to a PDF on the same key.  So all the user has to do is plug in the key to an off-line computer, boot-up, make one click, and he gets a whole load of freshly generated paper wallets on a PDF. Job done.

[crazy_rabbit]

I have received my Piper, international shipping, and I'm totally happy.

Sure the thermal paper doesn't last forever, but it can be connected to a regular printer and print out this way if you would like as well.

It also can save keys to a USB Key for backing up that was as well. Just plug in a formatted key, and it auto dumps the keys. There is a switch as well if you don't want it to remember the keys.

It's running linux so no reason why a future update can't have it work with Trezor, additionally, I have the Ethernet port model meaning I could connect it to my network, with a trezor, maybe make a web front end and you have a nice compact local Bitcoin thin client (I think electrum runs on it).

Pretty awesome, pretty simple. Press a button and out comes the QR codes.

[Meni Rosenfeld]

We'd like to use something like paper to print wallets for Justcoin, but need durability (> 10 years)

Use acid-free, archive-save paper conforrming to ISO standard ISO 9706 and an electrostatic printing process (for instance laser printing). Do NOT use a colour printer, use a B/W only printer. Do NOT use refurbished or value toner cartridges (you never know what crap they put in there). Keep in a darkened environment. For archiving purposes lasting up to several hundred years use archival quality paper conforrming to ISO standard 11108.

What are your thoughts on laminating as a way to preserve a printed paper?