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Author Topic: Why some donators are in default Trust list ?  (Read 4304 times)
Xian01
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July 27, 2013, 03:28:21 AM
#21

FWIW, I have nothing personally against TradeFortress.

The fact that he is in my list of default trusts is troubling.
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July 27, 2013, 04:15:56 AM
#22

I feel like we had this discussion, and I have even personally PMed theymos about how this could cause problems, I even gave him an example that happened to me. Power hungry people will always be power hungry. And theymos will not change, the only "fix" is to make satoshi your only trusted person.

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theymos
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July 27, 2013, 10:05:24 PM
#23

Someone in DefaultTrust is like a moderator responsible for cultivating a good trust network. They need to make sure that anyone trusting them sees many accurate ratings and no inaccurate ratings. Actual trustworthiness is important, but I can quickly respond to any abuses, so it isn't the most important factor in my decision to add someone to DefaultTrust.

The default trust network needs to work in this (somewhat counter-intuitive) centralized way, but you don't need to use the trust system in this way. You can use it more like a web of trust, adding only people who you trust to your trust list.

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July 27, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
#24

I agree that the default is necessary and that pre set people are needed in it.

But what about handling it like this?

IMO a good way would be to handle it like the ignore button. People that are trusted by a significant amount of forum members could move to default trust automatically. To counter sock-puppet trust, this could be based on activity. For Example: Members that are in the trust list of at least a sum of 5000(?) Activity Points move to default trust.

Would this be feasible / make sense?

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theymos
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July 27, 2013, 10:59:31 PM
#25

Then there would be too many inaccurate negative ratings. I don't want there to be any inaccurate negative ratings in the default trust network.

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July 27, 2013, 11:09:14 PM
#26

Then there would be too many inaccurate negative ratings. I don't want there to be any inaccurate negative ratings in the default trust network.

There have been allegations that DiamondCardz has given out inaccurate negative ratings. Do you believe these allegations to be unfounded?
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July 29, 2013, 05:05:13 PM
#27

Then there would be too many inaccurate negative ratings. I don't want there to be any inaccurate negative ratings in the default trust network.

Did you have to step in when TF abused his "power" to paint gweedo with negative rep ?

EDIT : John K, did you choose not to promote anyone ? (or is it just lazyness/boredom ?  Wink)

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July 29, 2013, 06:35:00 PM
#28

Then there would be too many inaccurate negative ratings. I don't want there to be any inaccurate negative ratings in the default trust network.

Did you have to step in when TF abused his "power" to paint gweedo with negative rep ?

EDIT : John K, did you choose not to promote anyone ? (or is it just lazyness/boredom ?  Wink)

I did give a few guys positive rep (check my trust link)? Huh Not sure about 'promoting' though - is that the same as giving positive feedback?

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July 29, 2013, 06:40:58 PM
#29

No, that's the people who you trust to give hones feedback and therefore their feedback is used to show you the numbers on the trust rating in the profile and sig..

Also all users who have you in your trust will then see the feedback of those people.


"Profile" --> "Trust" --> "Trust settings" and add the people you trust to give honest feedback.

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July 29, 2013, 07:17:43 PM
#30

I did give a few guys positive rep (check my trust link)? Huh Not sure about 'promoting' though - is that the same as giving positive feedback?

Hmm, not sure, but here's what it looks like on my trust string with 1 depth:



Tomato, for example, apparently promoted Gavin, Kludge, etc.
You're just promoting the Default trust list, as far as I'm concerned - might be an issue on my side, too ?




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theymos
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July 30, 2013, 01:32:45 AM
#31

Did you have to step in when TF abused his "power" to paint gweedo with negative rep ?

Yes, I rearranged the trust lists to remove that rating from the default trust network. TF later removed his rating, though.

There have been allegations that DiamondCardz has given out inaccurate negative ratings. Do you believe these allegations to be unfounded?

Is there a thread about this?

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July 30, 2013, 01:44:47 AM
#32

There have been allegations that DiamondCardz has given out inaccurate negative ratings. Do you believe these allegations to be unfounded?

Is there a thread about this?

This is the allegation I was talking about. I removed DiamondCardz from my personal trust list after this.

this thread is just the tip of the Iceberg. DiamondCardz you are on the right track with identifying scammers, however you're accuracy is becoming poor at best. you negged this account mistakenly in the HollowInfinity thread. you can contact TF to inquire about my identity. there is alot more going on here then most of us understand at this point but we have narrowed this group down to a list of people, and we caught them coming of of tor exit nodes and traced them all the way back to [country ommitted]. keep up the good work and i will keep helping as needed.
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August 08, 2013, 05:40:08 AM
#33

For any reason, I can't see TradeFortress being in the DefaultTrust list. A reference to a small part of reasons: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211115.80

FWIW I don't see why DiamondCardz is in that default trust list either!

This doesn't say do I trust them or not, but really, default trust listing people who are anonymous and do shady things [like in the link above]?

Theymos: Out of curiousity: Was pirate on the default trust list? The thing here is that majority of people don't even know such default trust list exists or that you can modify it! I'm a long time member here and just found out about that DefaultTrust thing, this tells about how transparent this forum is.

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DiamondCardz
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August 08, 2013, 09:11:34 AM
#34

FWIW I don't see why DiamondCardz is in that default trust list either!

I'm not in the DefaultTrust list, I'm just trusted by someone who is in the DefaultTrust list.

Then there would be too many inaccurate negative ratings. I don't want there to be any inaccurate negative ratings in the default trust network.

There have been allegations that DiamondCardz has given out inaccurate negative ratings. Do you believe these allegations to be unfounded?

Most of these allegations are by people who are mad, including newbies. I have a load of false negative ratings against me from phished accounts/scammers, and that's where most of the allegations come from. I'll look through the negative ratings I've given, but IMHO most of them are sound.

Then there would be too many inaccurate negative ratings. I don't want there to be any inaccurate negative ratings in the default trust network.

There have been allegations that DiamondCardz has given out inaccurate negative ratings. Do you believe these allegations to be unfounded?

Please make a thread so I can review these so-called allegations. The only one I remember was when Pi Coin was annoyed - I still do not trust him, but I removed the negative rep because I really can't be asked to get into a fight at the moment.
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August 08, 2013, 09:47:24 AM
#35

FWIW I don't see why DiamondCardz is in that default trust list either!

I'm not in the DefaultTrust list, I'm just trusted by someone who is in the DefaultTrust list.

...You're trusted by TradeFortress which makes you and your ratings be in the DefaultTrust list, just like everyone else in the list. You just have the restriction you can't add people on the list, TF can.

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August 08, 2013, 09:50:12 AM
#36

A good reason to never consider doing business on this forum.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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August 08, 2013, 09:53:28 AM
#37

A good reason to never consider doing business on this forum.

I don't really _trust_ the trust system of this forum since it's clearly not working. #bitcoin-otc / Web of Trust @ Freenode works very well. There are no "default trust lists", removal of ratings or anything like that in there.

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August 08, 2013, 10:11:18 AM
#38

I just really can't see why TradeFortress is in this list. As a person who can add people on the list, too.

Reasons:
- He intentionally lured newbies to lose their ripple-bitcoins. related: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211115.0
- Rumours say he've sold his web development services and done poor job. And then been messing up with the site.. reference: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223665
- Asks for access to others' accounts at IRC (#bitcoin-otc @Freenode). No reference for this since I got this info from IRC and we discussed it there a while ago. You can ask more info from a #bitcoin-otc operator TheLordOfTime. There's absolutely no reason to EVER ask for others passwords or access to their accounts. A web developer should know this...
- he's anonymous..

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August 08, 2013, 10:44:17 AM
#39

I just really can't see why TradeFortress is in this list. As a person who can add people on the list, too.

Reasons:
- He intentionally lured newbies to lose their ripple-bitcoins. related: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211115.0 Been discussed MANY times, why discuss it again now?
- Rumours say he've sold his web development services and done poor job. And then been messing up with the site.. reference: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223665
- Asks for access to others' accounts at IRC (#bitcoin-otc @Freenode). No reference for this since I got this info from IRC and we discussed it there a while ago. There's absolutely no reason to EVER ask for others passwords or access to their accounts. A web developer should know this...
- he's anonymous.. People do know his details, actually.
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August 08, 2013, 10:54:07 AM
#40

I just really can't see why TradeFortress is in this list. As a person who can add people on the list, too.

Reasons:
- He intentionally lured newbies to lose their ripple-bitcoins. related: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211115.0 Been discussed MANY times, why discuss it again now?
- Rumours say he've sold his web development services and done poor job. And then been messing up with the site.. reference: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223665
- Asks for access to others' accounts at IRC (#bitcoin-otc @Freenode). No reference for this since I got this info from IRC and we discussed it there a while ago. There's absolutely no reason to EVER ask for others passwords or access to their accounts. A web developer should know this...
- he's anonymous.. People do know his details, actually.

Let me make those highlighted things clear.
Starting from the first hilight:

#1: How has it changed the facts about what he did? He lured people to trust him without telling them they will lose all their real valuable backed ripple bitcoins (if they had any) when they added the trust towards him.
#2: Looked it again and it shows they're not just rumours since TradeFortress has confirmed it himself. He did do a job, then "penetration tested" it without any permission from the customer. He offered to fix the security vulnerabilities for extra cost. Basicly means he made an unsecure product for customer, hacked it and tried to get more money out of him.
#3: I added a note in there. Also, TradeFortress have confirmed this himself. Me having no straight link or a reference for summary doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'll say it again: It did happen and TF confirmed it.
#4: Sure. Anyway, this was the least important of the listed reasons.

Edit:
This is not meant to be a rant against TradeFortress. These things just somehow don't get administrators attention.

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