The whales are cashing out

[freightjoe]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

[omorfi]

The best time to sell cryptocoins is when the buyers are the most crowded. So whales can sell big parts of portfolios to the others. This is the right detection. Best strategy is; Gain less but do not lose  

[Rayner77]

The best time to sell cryptocoins is when the buyers are the most crowded. So whales can sell big parts of portfolios to the others. This is the right detection. Best strategy is; Gain less but do not lose  

Quick thinking and since you've mentioned it, I think you may be right. Well, it's either a bear trap or the other way around which is much worse.

[RamonBTC]

Not thinking much about this scenario for a long time but I think you got a point there. In some sort big investors/whales surely have an effect on this decreases and to stay long at 16k this day is a sign but not an assurance that is does really happen. Hoping to cash out at a much higher price after a recovery.

[Oulay]

Wow it's you again! wonder where you've been all this time  
However, you're right about the part that it's harder for small investors to make transactions, but the thing you're wrong about is the price collapse, bitcoin is never gonna collapse!! Every time the price dropped you came here saying the same shit and creating fud..
Who knows why? Maybe you're employed by a whale investor or maybe you yourself are an investor and you want the price to go down as much as possible to buy at the lowest price..

To everyone who's reading this don't listen to him!! Just go to his profile and see how most of his posts are full of shit talk about Bitcoin

[eann014]

This is true, but I suggest to hold and be patient. Don't get affected on the price dropping. I will hold my bitcoin because I am thinking of on the future that for sure I can gain profit if I will patiently wait on that day that I can en-cash in the right time. Maybe If I can have my 1 btc for the future that would be great.

[freightjoe]

Wow it's you again! wonder where you've been all this time  
However, you're right about the part that it's harder for small investors to make transactions, but the thing you're wrong about is the price collapse, bitcoin is never gonna collapse!! Every time the price dropped you came here saying the same shit and creating fud..
Who knows why? Maybe you're employed by a whale investor or maybe you yourself are an investor and you want the price to go down as much as possible to buy at the lowest price..

To everyone who's reading this don't listen to him!! Just go to his profile and see how most of his posts are full of shit talk about Bitcoin

Wow - because your arguments are soooo much stronger because you are shouting....

As everyone knows, the moment where you run our of arguments and realize you are badly wrong - but don't want to admit to yourself - you start shouting.

[Catmony]

Your statement sound logical but cant be completely true because if the small investors want to cashout than they will even pay high fees. If you have 1000$+ than paying 30$ to cash it out won't hurt as 3% transaction fee is normal with other payment gateway also total gain you will have with holding bitcoin is more than 3%.

[diguyo]

I don't think the whales are cashing out. Some may be, but collectively I don't think they are.

This is true though, if you can afford to pay more in transaction fees then it helps. Ultimately, though, it's all relative to the sum that you have...so they'll be paying quite a lot on fees.

[iamTom123]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot. Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them. At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees. The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

After some level of excitement before the introduction of the Bitcoin Futures which became part of the reasons why Bitcoin wildly surged in the past weeks, right now there is that gloomy feeling within the Bitcoin community and now spreading into many small Bitcoin holders and enthusiasts all over the world. This gloomy feeling has something to do with the preposterous transaction fee affecting everybody. Unlike with the same problem encountered months ago, this time the transactions rate have become too hard to swallow. Yes, this is becoming like a bog joke most especially since we are supposed to be dealing with something that should be fast and relatively cheap -- yet what we are seeing the opposite now. How long will this whole problem go on before many Bitcoin enthusiasts can go sour and change camp? I think there is nobody home for Bitcoin right now. Bitcoin has become like a headless chicken running around without that clear direction. This must be stopped as soon as possible.

[mk4]

Why are you automatically concluding that just because the blockchain is congested it automatically means that the whales are cashing out?

Also, "Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases" so? They're newbies for a reason. It's their fault if they're investing while thinking that profits are guaranteed.

"Existing smaller investors do not want to sell..." People can choose their fees for a reason. No one is forcing them to pay $20 fees. You can pay $2-$5 fees, you just have to wait longer. Stop trying to make FUD like this if you don't know how bitcoin works.

[BitcoinHodler]

wow, this is great news if it is true. /s
because seeing the price it doesn't seem to have moved at all. if whales are selling and price doesn't move it means the market is so huge that they think they are whales but they are little fishes in the market.

... of course OP is FUDing because he is butthurt based on his post history LOL

[fiulpro]

I don't wanna sound like a stupid but you know its infact great for the future..
Whales had a lot of amount in their pockets which gave them authority over the Bitcoins economy and thus it was somehow influencing us..the common public.
They could dictate the price and it could literally cause problems for the long run.. if they are out then its a really great news we can finally expect bitcoins to be decentralized again..
Even if it is decentralized ^ the people holding huge sum of money controlls it thus its more like we are the puppets..
They cashed out its great for the long run we would be able to see a real descent growth.

[Jaron80]

Some of the whales might cash out but due to the nature of bitcoin most big stakeholders will stay.

Although the meteoric rise in a lot of alt coins is a sign people are diversifying into different currencies,
moving billions of dollars from crypto to fiat is extremely difficult.

[Hemady17]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

In short, the whales are the most powerful man in bitcoin. They hold the fees and bitcoin itself. Now I know, why there is a time that the price goes down deeply ang goes high. And you are right! Small investors are the one who catch the large amount of fees. Almost half of the amount will cost if they will transact or exchange to fiat.

[TheQuin]

Why are you automatically concluding that.....

That's how freightjoe starts all his threads with some logic-defying leap from a piece of information into the conclusion that Bitcoin is doomed. Some of his efforts are somewhat better than this but they generally rely on something that is unlikely to be true.

[thebanker28]

Bitcoin is bought and sold in open marketplaces, it is a decentralized currency with open source code. There is no conspiracy here. Of course some people willcash out now because they want to, but more people are buying in, thats the nature of market places. FFS get a grip.

[Casey7]

The best time to sell cryptocoins is when the buyers are the most crowded. So whales can sell big parts of portfolios to the others. This is the right detection. Best strategy is; Gain less but do not lose  

Your strategy is good mate. Gain les but dont loss.
But at the same time when you said that we have to sell when buyers are most crowded. I dont think that is good. I think the price will be higher if the buyers are crowded, so it is time to hold.

[freightjoe]

Bitcoin is bought and sold in open marketplaces, it is a decentralized currency with open source code. There is no conspiracy here. Of course some people willcash out now because they want to, but more people are buying in, thats the nature of market places. FFS get a grip.

Completely wrong - the marketplaces are rife with manipulation and deceit. See the update on it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2625249.0

[Oulay]

Wow it's you again! wonder where you've been all this time  
However, you're right about the part that it's harder for small investors to make transactions, but the thing you're wrong about is the price collapse, bitcoin is never gonna collapse!! Every time the price dropped you came here saying the same shit and creating fud..
Who knows why? Maybe you're employed by a whale investor or maybe you yourself are an investor and you want the price to go down as much as possible to buy at the lowest price..

To everyone who's reading this don't listen to him!! Just go to his profile and see how most of his posts are full of shit talk about Bitcoin

Wow - because your arguments are soooo much stronger because you are shouting....

As everyone knows, the moment where you run our of arguments and realize you are badly wrong - but don't want to admit to yourself - you start shouting.

So.. from the whole post the thing you got is that I'm shouting?? and you're response was telling me that I'm shouting? wow! good for you!

Here is a post you posted a month ago saying that bitcoin was going to crash:

...and then another 20% in the next hour.... after 2 hours we move below 5000 .... and still going down...passing 3000

At which point do you plan on bailing out?

Any rational investor has a stop-loss strategy. It can be different dependent on risk appetite, but is must be there if one is a rational investor.

As a matter of gauging risk-appetite, what is your stop-loss strategy?

Well.. Did it crash? No! Are you still doing the same thing every time BTC has a decrease in price? Yes!
You just come here start shit talking about Bitcoin, create some FUD and go back to sleep until the next price drop happens..

[BingoDog]

With such posts and individual pieces of information put into one that completely changes the sense the panic starts.
Things are not so simple and it's not wisw to make short conclusions. Not whales, not small investors will cause the collapse of bitcoin and bitcoin system just by buying or selling in certain moment and it's not true that fees are to blame that smaller investors are not cashing out bitcoins. You talk like this is not individual decision but some collective movement and this is not true.

[matanglawin]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

It is indeed true that whales are cashing out but it is not because they are not interested anymore to Bitcoin. Chances are high that it has to do with the season. Transactions are high which makes the demand low as well as the value of Bitcoin. But what to do is to hold rather than to do the same which is to also sell just because the market value is falling.

[freightjoe]

Wow it's you again! wonder where you've been all this time  
However, you're right about the part that it's harder for small investors to make transactions, but the thing you're wrong about is the price collapse, bitcoin is never gonna collapse!! Every time the price dropped you came here saying the same shit and creating fud..
Who knows why? Maybe you're employed by a whale investor or maybe you yourself are an investor and you want the price to go down as much as possible to buy at the lowest price..

To everyone who's reading this don't listen to him!! Just go to his profile and see how most of his posts are full of shit talk about Bitcoin

Wow - because your arguments are soooo much stronger because you are shouting....

As everyone knows, the moment where you run our of arguments and realize you are badly wrong - but don't want to admit to yourself - you start shouting.

So.. from the whole post the thing you got is that I'm shouting?? and you're response was telling me that I'm shouting? wow! good for you!

Here is a post you posted a month ago saying that bitcoin was going to crash:

...and then another 20% in the next hour.... after 2 hours we move below 5000 .... and still going down...passing 3000

At which point do you plan on bailing out?

Any rational investor has a stop-loss strategy. It can be different dependent on risk appetite, but is must be there if one is a rational investor.

As a matter of gauging risk-appetite, what is your stop-loss strategy?

Well.. Did it crash? No! Are you still doing the same thing every time BTC has a decrease in price? Yes!
You just come here start shit talking about Bitcoin, create some FUD and go back to sleep until the next price drop happens..

No real point in discussing with you as you are clearly incapable of rational analysis. The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

[Zakhal]

I will buy all your bitcoins if you give them away cheap! Bitcoin is not going anywhere. Its been here for a decade. Just get used to it.

[legoplayer245]

I don't know if exactly cashing out or moving to Litecoin and Ether, I think that's the reason behind the pump on alts.

[mast3rm1nd]

i don't understand really your reasoning here. sure the fees are more favorable to whales, but how does that mean that the whales are selling and cashing out ??

[Paul stuart]

It's the year-end cash out, nothing to worry about, especially for those who have made big gains in the year 2017 it's normal nothing disturbing

[TheQuin]

The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

That's an interesting profile you have freightjoe. After joining the forum and spending September posting solely in the  Re: TEU – the shipping crypto currency - bounty announced thread you take a break from September 15 and come back November 15 and seem only obsessed with calling Bitcoin a bubble. I would just like to point out that if you had bought Bitcoin that day it would have cost $6,900 and you would be sitting on nearly $10,000 profit. Exactly how long can you remain bearish?

[freightjoe]

i don't understand really your reasoning here. sure the fees are more favorable to whales, but how does that mean that the whales are selling and cashing out ??

There are already press stories out where whales are saying they have sold the Bitcoin and taken home the profit. This has been taking place since November. They do it slowly over time to get the best price in order for the crash only to come as late as possible

[scottykarate]

Wow it's you again! wonder where you've been all this time  
However, you're right about the part that it's harder for small investors to make transactions, but the thing you're wrong about is the price collapse, bitcoin is never gonna collapse!! Every time the price dropped you came here saying the same shit and creating fud..
Who knows why? Maybe you're employed by a whale investor or maybe you yourself are an investor and you want the price to go down as much as possible to buy at the lowest price..

To everyone who's reading this don't listen to him!! Just go to his profile and see how most of his posts are full of shit talk about Bitcoin

Wow - because your arguments are soooo much stronger because you are shouting....

As everyone knows, the moment where you run our of arguments and realize you are badly wrong - but don't want to admit to yourself - you start shouting.

So.. from the whole post the thing you got is that I'm shouting?? and you're response was telling me that I'm shouting? wow! good for you!

Here is a post you posted a month ago saying that bitcoin was going to crash:

...and then another 20% in the next hour.... after 2 hours we move below 5000 .... and still going down...passing 3000

At which point do you plan on bailing out?

Any rational investor has a stop-loss strategy. It can be different dependent on risk appetite, but is must be there if one is a rational investor.

As a matter of gauging risk-appetite, what is your stop-loss strategy?

Well.. Did it crash? No! Are you still doing the same thing every time BTC has a decrease in price? Yes!
You just come here start shit talking about Bitcoin, create some FUD and go back to sleep until the next price drop happens..

No real point in discussing with you as you are clearly incapable of rational analysis. The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

If the whales were cashing out, BTC would be crashing hard. It isn't. It's still in the positive over 7 days despite the onslaught of CNBC/Ver/Coinbase collusion and the holidays and your so-called whale theory.

I'm glad that the forum sees you for the person that you are, which is Mr. FUD.

[freightjoe]

The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

That's an interesting profile you have freightjoe. After joining the forum and spending September posting solely in the  Re: TEU – the shipping crypto currency - bounty announced thread you take a break from September 15 and come back November 15 and seem only obsessed with calling Bitcoin a bubble. I would just like to point out that if you had bought Bitcoin that day it would have cost $6,900 and you would be sitting on nearly $10,000 profit. Exactly how long can you remain bearish?

You are like the man jumping off the roof of a 100-floor building. I am telling you initially it is stupid to jump. You tell me that crypto is something new that gravity cannot touch.

You then jump. When you are 50 floors away from hitting the ground, I am warning you to pull the string on your parachute as otherwise you will be sorry. You tell me it is all FUD and old-fashioned gravity does not matter in the crypto world.

When you are then 20 floors away from hitting the ground - going even faster now - I again warn you to pull the string on your parachute. Now your argument is that because you still having hit the ground, that my warning is just FUD and the in the world of crypto gravity still does not matter, because nothing bad has happened yet.....

I am not bearish. I am just telling you exactly how that jump of yours is going to end.

[Stedsm]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

True that whales can make large transfers but even those transfers are not getting confirmed nowadays due to the malleability glitches in segwit as well as miners trying to play games with the whole network by switching their hashes to other coins and wait for more fee increase in the network.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

I don't think they can't, because even if they send their money with less fee/byte but which is better enough to be accepted in nearby time, then why should they wait for the whales to take the advantage of current prices? It's not just limited to whales cashing out on bitcoins, but as of now, matter has become more serious when sellers also got a chance to make money selling.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

- Guess you are wrong on the whales point somewhat, as even if they are selling off, they might be doing it under the fear of getting price shot back low.
- Again, you are wrong here. Newbies aren't buying from the whales alone, but exchanges too. But if we consider exchanges also as whales, then I believe we will be left with no such options but to sell asap as they have the power to keep the price up or take it down at a stretch.
- No need to send a transaction with $20 as fee if hold is all you can do. If you're patient enough and can wait for confirmations, why to wait for sending your coins anywhere with lesser fee?

[12tribes]

If the whales are cashing out, no matter your position in the chain,your can have your own bite. Don't wait until it is over before you do the needful....
however, this could be another trick to force down the price.... whatever happens it is wise to thread cautiously.Weigh your options and do the right thing.

[GwSoJ]

No-one is cashing out. These fluctuations are due the the futures markets kicking in and people with no Bitcoin now playing the market.

The Bitcoin market is always going to be a buyers market, the 21 million limit guarantees that. People are always going to want to buy them.

Cryptocurrencies are the future and Bitcoin is the gold of cryptocurrencies. The whales know this, they understand that the more Bitcoin they hold out of the market system the higher the Bitcoin price goes. Why would they sell them? To buy what exactly, worthless fiat?

Buy all the Bitcoin you can and hodl, hodl, hodl  

[freightjoe]

But if we consider exchanges also as whales, then I believe we will be left with no such options but to sell asap as they have the power to keep the price up or take it down at a stretch.
-

They are much worse than whales - they have the ability to manipulate the market. In normal exchanges there are strong rules to prevent manipulation. Normal exchanges that do manipulation end with people going to prison. Not so in crypto where there are no rules.

In crypto exchanges employees also trade on the same exchanges for themselves - they know what people want to buy and sell and can use that insider information to make profitable trades for themselves. This is highly illegal in normal exhanges. But not in crypto. In crypto all types of manipulation that people would go to prison for elsewhere is happening. Why do you think sharp traders in Wall Street want to get in on the action? Because here they can use their dirty tricks that are otherwise illegal on normal exchanges.

[scottykarate]

The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

That's an interesting profile you have freightjoe. After joining the forum and spending September posting solely in the  Re: TEU – the shipping crypto currency - bounty announced thread you take a break from September 15 and come back November 15 and seem only obsessed with calling Bitcoin a bubble. I would just like to point out that if you had bought Bitcoin that day it would have cost $6,900 and you would be sitting on nearly $10,000 profit. Exactly how long can you remain bearish?

You are like the man jumping off the roof of a 100-floor building. I am telling you initially it is stupid to jump. You tell me that crypto is something new that gravity cannot touch.

You then jump. When you are 50 floors away from hitting the ground, I am warning you to pull the string on your parachute as otherwise you will be sorry. You tell me it is all FUD and old-fashioned gravity does not matter in the crypto world.

When you are then 20 floors away from hitting the ground - going even faster now - I again warn you to pull the string on your parachute. Now your argument is that because you still having hit the ground, that my warning is just FUD and the in the world of crypto gravity still does not matter, because nothing bad has happened yet.....

I am not bearish. I am just telling you exactly how that jump of yours is going to end.

As I've said before, you are just an anti-BTC troll.
You claim you are saving people from certain demise with Bitcoin and insinuating crypto is bad is the crux of your arguement because it is all bubble and speculation.
Bitcoin is a crypto. Altcoins are crypto.

Again, I challenge you to go FUD the Altcoin forums as well. Make sure you spread your shi..I mean, pearls of wisdom there as well. Don't fall back on your standard "I don't have time" routine because you have shown that you definitely do by your posting history on just this account.

[TheQuin]

You are like the man jumping off the roof of a 100-floor building. I am telling you initially it is stupid to jump. You tell me that crypto is something new that gravity cannot touch.

That literally makes no sense as an analogy. We're going up not down.

You then jump. When you are 50 floors away from hitting the ground, I am warning you to pull the string on your parachute as otherwise you will be sorry. You tell me it is all FUD and old-fashioned gravity does not matter in the crypto world.

You're still not making any sense joe.

When you are then 20 floors away from hitting the ground - going even faster now - I again warn you to pull the string on your parachute. Now your argument is that because you still having hit the ground, that my warning is just FUD and the in the world of crypto gravity still does not matter, because nothing bad has happened yet.....

I'm calling in to doubt the wisdom of listening to your advice. You have been calling for this bubble to burst since the price was $6,900. Anyone who paid the slightest attention to you would have lost out on a $10,000 gain.

I am not bearish. I am just telling you exactly how that jump of yours is going to end.

Try telling me when it will end as constantly screaming the end is nigh really is pointless.

[freightjoe]

You are like the man jumping off the roof of a 100-floor building. I am telling you initially it is stupid to jump. You tell me that crypto is something new that gravity cannot touch.

That literally makes no sense as an analogy. We're going up not down.

You then jump. When you are 50 floors away from hitting the ground, I am warning you to pull the string on your parachute as otherwise you will be sorry. You tell me it is all FUD and old-fashioned gravity does not matter in the crypto world.

You're still not making any sense joe.

When you are then 20 floors away from hitting the ground - going even faster now - I again warn you to pull the string on your parachute. Now your argument is that because you still having hit the ground, that my warning is just FUD and the in the world of crypto gravity still does not matter, because nothing bad has happened yet.....

I'm calling in to doubt the wisdom of listening to your advice. You have been calling for this bubble to burst since the price was $6,900. Anyone who paid the slightest attention to you would have lost out on a $10,000 gain.

I am not bearish. I am just telling you exactly how that jump of yours is going to end.

Try telling me when it will end as constantly screaming the end is nigh really is pointless.

Seems you lack the capability to understand an analogy.... Good luck with getting your fingers burnt.

[freightjoe]

The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

That's an interesting profile you have freightjoe. After joining the forum and spending September posting solely in the  Re: TEU – the shipping crypto currency - bounty announced thread you take a break from September 15 and come back November 15 and seem only obsessed with calling Bitcoin a bubble. I would just like to point out that if you had bought Bitcoin that day it would have cost $6,900 and you would be sitting on nearly $10,000 profit. Exactly how long can you remain bearish?

You are like the man jumping off the roof of a 100-floor building. I am telling you initially it is stupid to jump. You tell me that crypto is something new that gravity cannot touch.

You then jump. When you are 50 floors away from hitting the ground, I am warning you to pull the string on your parachute as otherwise you will be sorry. You tell me it is all FUD and old-fashioned gravity does not matter in the crypto world.

When you are then 20 floors away from hitting the ground - going even faster now - I again warn you to pull the string on your parachute. Now your argument is that because you still having hit the ground, that my warning is just FUD and the in the world of crypto gravity still does not matter, because nothing bad has happened yet.....

I am not bearish. I am just telling you exactly how that jump of yours is going to end.

As I've said before, you are just an anti-BTC troll.
You claim you are saving people from certain demise with Bitcoin and insinuating crypto is bad is the crux of your arguement because it is all bubble and speculation.
Bitcoin is a crypto. Altcoins are crypto.

Again, I challenge you to go FUD the Altcoin forums as well. Make sure you spread your shi..I mean, pearls of wisdom there as well. Don't fall back on your standard "I don't have time" routine because you have shown that you definitely do by your posting history on just this account.

Little Scottyboy, you still haven't become any wiser I see.

[scottykarate]

You are like the man jumping off the roof of a 100-floor building. I am telling you initially it is stupid to jump. You tell me that crypto is something new that gravity cannot touch.

That literally makes no sense as an analogy. We're going up not down.

You then jump. When you are 50 floors away from hitting the ground, I am warning you to pull the string on your parachute as otherwise you will be sorry. You tell me it is all FUD and old-fashioned gravity does not matter in the crypto world.

You're still not making any sense joe.

When you are then 20 floors away from hitting the ground - going even faster now - I again warn you to pull the string on your parachute. Now your argument is that because you still having hit the ground, that my warning is just FUD and the in the world of crypto gravity still does not matter, because nothing bad has happened yet.....

I'm calling in to doubt the wisdom of listening to your advice. You have been calling for this bubble to burst since the price was $6,900. Anyone who paid the slightest attention to you would have lost out on a $10,000 gain.

I am not bearish. I am just telling you exactly how that jump of yours is going to end.

Try telling me when it will end as constantly screaming the end is nigh really is pointless.

Seems you lack the capability to understand an analogy.... Good luck with getting your fingers burnt.

Seems like we understand it just fine. Conversely, you fail to grasp the obvious in that nobody here listens to you now and people are better off because they didn't listen.

[bitcub]

Holding is the key do defeat the whales.  They are dumping to scare people to giveup their precious coins. Once you dump,  they will buy all the coins you drop.  
Whales are also using influencial people like Jamie Dimon to talk shit with bitcoin.

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

[freightjoe]

 nobody here listens to you now and people are better off because they didn't listen.

really - all the ones who bought at 19800$ are better off now wherre we are 16200$ and on a downwards slope?

[GwSoJ]

Hey freightjoe, you're biggest problem here is you are trying to compare a crypto market to a normal market. It's not even a valid comparison, can't be and never will be.

Anyone cashing in BTC for fiat is an idiot and if they sell 10,000 Bitcoin at once and the price drops a few thousand dollars then I will happily buy them.

[scottykarate]

The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

That's an interesting profile you have freightjoe. After joining the forum and spending September posting solely in the  Re: TEU – the shipping crypto currency - bounty announced thread you take a break from September 15 and come back November 15 and seem only obsessed with calling Bitcoin a bubble. I would just like to point out that if you had bought Bitcoin that day it would have cost $6,900 and you would be sitting on nearly $10,000 profit. Exactly how long can you remain bearish?

You are like the man jumping off the roof of a 100-floor building. I am telling you initially it is stupid to jump. You tell me that crypto is something new that gravity cannot touch.

You then jump. When you are 50 floors away from hitting the ground, I am warning you to pull the string on your parachute as otherwise you will be sorry. You tell me it is all FUD and old-fashioned gravity does not matter in the crypto world.

When you are then 20 floors away from hitting the ground - going even faster now - I again warn you to pull the string on your parachute. Now your argument is that because you still having hit the ground, that my warning is just FUD and the in the world of crypto gravity still does not matter, because nothing bad has happened yet.....

I am not bearish. I am just telling you exactly how that jump of yours is going to end.

As I've said before, you are just an anti-BTC troll.
You claim you are saving people from certain demise with Bitcoin and insinuating crypto is bad is the crux of your arguement because it is all bubble and speculation.
Bitcoin is a crypto. Altcoins are crypto.

Again, I challenge you to go FUD the Altcoin forums as well. Make sure you spread your shi..I mean, pearls of wisdom there as well. Don't fall back on your standard "I don't have time" routine because you have shown that you definitely do by your posting history on just this account.

Little Scottyboy, you still haven't become any wiser I see.

That's all you ever have to say. It's apparent that you've got nothing!! Wow, that is just a dynamite reply. Don't tell me you saved that one for me!!!!!!! You been waiting to drop that little tidbit? Wow, it is just sooooo painful.  

[scottykarate]

 nobody here listens to you now and people are better off because they didn't listen.

really - all the ones who bought at 19800$ are better off now wherre we are 16200$ and on a downwards slope?

Which I'm sure would be a small percentage compared to those who have profited, even if Bitcoin holds where it is. Which it won't. It will go back up. It is still in the green over the course of a week.

[TheQuin]

Seems you lack the capability to understand an analogy.... Good luck with getting your fingers burnt.

It seems like you lack the capability of understanding a simple point. Your analogy is incorrect because we all have the ability to step off at any time of our choosing, we're not hurtling out of control. You were wrong to say that it was about to crash at $6,900 and I'd say you are still wrong now. You can't carry on doing that all the way up a bull market and expect to be taken seriously.

[MMostaza]

I am wondering where you can find this information about the whales cashing out? There is some report talking about it?

What I have read is about Charlie Lee getting rid of all his Litecoins: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/after-7-500-rally-cryptocurrency-founder-sells-all-his-coins  which created a bit of doubts and fear, but after his explanation (bit weird for me, but I prefer to think that each one of us have different believes and reasons to do what we do) it seems that no crash happened with Litecoin.

So, how we can know about effects of whales cashing out, if we already don't know if that is happening for sure?

[freightjoe]

Hey freightjoe, you're biggest problem here is you are trying to compare a crypto market to a normal market. It's not even a valid comparison, can't be and never will be.

Anyone cashing in BTC for fiat is an idiot and if they sell 10,000 Bitcoin at once and the price drops a few thousand dollars then I will happily buy them.

So basically your argument is that this time it is different?

Try a little reading: https://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640

It is a solid well-researched book covering the last 800 years showing that it is never different in terms of financial bubbles. And don't delude yourself into thinking the world has not seen tremendous technological inventions in the past 800 years.....

[AK47-]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

And how you came to this conclusion anyway?
Did whales come to you and told you they are cashing out?
Rather the recent price depreciation gave those whales and many an opportunity to increase their BTC holdings. Actually completely opposite happens when BTC price falls. Whales are the one who buy in more and small investors who usually are panic sellers, panic sell their BTC. Look at the charts or if you don't understand them, ask someone. BTC is going for another bullish rally to $21k+ by this week end.

[lighpulsar07]

Wow it's you again! wonder where you've been all this time  
However, you're right about the part that it's harder for small investors to make transactions, but the thing you're wrong about is the price collapse, bitcoin is never gonna collapse!! Every time the price dropped you came here saying the same shit and creating fud..
Who knows why? Maybe you're employed by a whale investor or maybe you yourself are an investor and you want the price to go down as much as possible to buy at the lowest price..

To everyone who's reading this don't listen to him!! Just go to his profile and see how most of his posts are full of shit talk about Bitcoin

lol. he's back why the moderator didn't ban him? I've reported him numerous times because of his copy-paste posts in the past which is violation to the rules and regulation of this forum and the moderators ignored it anyways i can post the proofs and evidences of his violations and yeah you shouldn't listen to this one he's just spreading lies and shills just bitcoin cash supporters spreading FUD just to move to bitcoin cash to this forum.

[GwSoJ]

Hey freightjoe, you're biggest problem here is you are trying to compare a crypto market to a normal market. It's not even a valid comparison, can't be and never will be.

Anyone cashing in BTC for fiat is an idiot and if they sell 10,000 Bitcoin at once and the price drops a few thousand dollars then I will happily buy them.

So basically your argument is that this time it is different?

Try a little reading: https://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640

It is a solid well-researched book covering the last 800 years showing that it is never different in terms of financial bubbles. And don't delude yourself into thinking the world has not seen tremendous technological inventions in the past 800 years.....

This time it's different in comparison to what? of course it's different because it's brand new.

It's not a financial bubble because it's not financial. It's technological. It's like comparing the travel logs of steam ships from London to New York vs the same trip done on Concorde. There is no comparison.

The markets will have to reinvent themselves over and over again for the next few years because we still don't even know what Cryprocurrency is yet. So there is absolutely no validity in any comparison or prediction you or anyone else makes.

Stick to the facts. Crypto is the future, Bitcoin is crypto gold and there will only ever be 21 million of them. The rest, right now, is irrelevant.

[Mike Mayor]

I agree with you about the fees and it is true the big players can afford to make more transactions but the rest of what you say is total bs. Firstly you have yourself to blame and can pay yourself and the horse of idiots who sell btc to get fiat. If you don't believe in bitcoin and want fiat then don't bother at all. Bitcoin is a currency there is no cashing out. It's eooe like you who insist on "cashing out" who have made the fees so high. Bitcoin is a currency so use it as such.

[CryptosapienZA]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

Please provide some evidence. How do you know that the whales are cashing out? Yes the fees for small investor are ridiculous... However arent fees relative to each transactions?

[marcuslong]

I think it is wrong you need to see them it is because the price is dropping does mean they are selling most of them are waiting for the right time and they still holding there coins for the next year the price is deopping the volume and demand are decrease too maybe try to hold your bitcoins.

[scottykarate]

Wow it's you again! wonder where you've been all this time  
However, you're right about the part that it's harder for small investors to make transactions, but the thing you're wrong about is the price collapse, bitcoin is never gonna collapse!! Every time the price dropped you came here saying the same shit and creating fud..
Who knows why? Maybe you're employed by a whale investor or maybe you yourself are an investor and you want the price to go down as much as possible to buy at the lowest price..

To everyone who's reading this don't listen to him!! Just go to his profile and see how most of his posts are full of shit talk about Bitcoin

lol he's back why the moderator didn't ban him i've reported him numerous times because of his copy paste posting in the past

They don't want to censor people, which is fine. People can have their different opinions about BTC and share them. We can just ignore his threads and they'll drop out of sight if we want to.
It seems we like to engage the troll, which is what he wants and what some of us apparently want as well.

[Marsouc]

I wont say they are cashing out, this was really small drop.

[Kersh768]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

We should not do the same an rather be awared that it is probably because of Christmans whereas people are in need of money to buy presents for their families or to just buy the things that they want. They are selling because there are only limited countriws where it can be used directly so the only way is to sell it. But surely, it will eventually increase, so just HOLD.

[Yzhel]

I think it is wrong you need to see them it is because the price is dropping does mean they are selling most of them are waiting for the right time and they still holding there coins for the next year the price is deopping the volume and demand are decrease too maybe try to hold your bitcoins.

That is right, I am holding my bitcoin as well regardless of the price right now, although the current price is dropping I won't still cash out my btc as I am securing some of it in the future, hope that before the year ends the value of bitcoin will be back again to $20k or better if more than that.

[CyberKuro]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

There is no evidence of your theory, this is completely speculation.
Bitcoin price is just $16,200 at the moment, and bitcoin get more attention since it reaches $10,000. It makes sense to cash out at the peak instead of at current market situation. Which mean, big whales already cashed out when bitcoin reach $20,000 or they may want to wait for bitcoin reach $50,000 or even higher price as the best price to extract the profit. ALthough, it's not profitable for smaller investors to cash out when the mempool flooded with so many unconfirmed transactions, better to wait until all thing get fixed and bitcoin reach a higher point.

[GwSoJ]

I think it is wrong you need to see them it is because the price is dropping does mean they are selling most of them are waiting for the right time and they still holding there coins for the next year the price is deopping the volume and demand are decrease too maybe try to hold your bitcoins.

That is right, I am holding my bitcoin as well regardless of the price right now, although the current price is dropping I won't still cash out my btc as I am securing some of it in the future, hope that before the year ends the value of bitcoin will be back again to $20k or better if more than that.

Much, much, much more that $20K 

[freightjoe]

I am wondering where you can find this information about the whales cashing out? There is some report talking about it?

What I have read is about Charlie Lee getting rid of all his Litecoins: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/after-7-500-rally-cryptocurrency-founder-sells-all-his-coins  which created a bit of doubts and fear, but after his explanation (bit weird for me, but I prefer to think that each one of us have different believes and reasons to do what we do) it seems that no crash happened with Litecoin.

So, how we can know about effects of whales cashing out, if we already don't know if that is happening for sure?

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127707-just-sold-half-bitcoin
http://nordic.businessinsider.com/this-danish-billionaire-just-made-a-killing-on-bitcoin-2017-11/

[GwSoJ]

I am wondering where you can find this information about the whales cashing out? There is some report talking about it?

What I have read is about Charlie Lee getting rid of all his Litecoins: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/after-7-500-rally-cryptocurrency-founder-sells-all-his-coins  which created a bit of doubts and fear, but after his explanation (bit weird for me, but I prefer to think that each one of us have different believes and reasons to do what we do) it seems that no crash happened with Litecoin.

So, how we can know about effects of whales cashing out, if we already don't know if that is happening for sure?

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127707-just-sold-half-bitcoin
http://nordic.businessinsider.com/this-danish-billionaire-just-made-a-killing-on-bitcoin-2017-11/

Lol, so these two links which are the same story and that have zero way of being confirmed are your entire argument?

[freightjoe]

Hey freightjoe, you're biggest problem here is you are trying to compare a crypto market to a normal market. It's not even a valid comparison, can't be and never will be.

Anyone cashing in BTC for fiat is an idiot and if they sell 10,000 Bitcoin at once and the price drops a few thousand dollars then I will happily buy them.

So basically your argument is that this time it is different?

Try a little reading: https://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640

It is a solid well-researched book covering the last 800 years showing that it is never different in terms of financial bubbles. And don't delude yourself into thinking the world has not seen tremendous technological inventions in the past 800 years.....

This time it's different in comparison to what? of course it's different because it's brand new.

It's not a financial bubble because it's not financial. It's technological. It's like comparing the travel logs of steam ships from London to New York vs the same trip done on Concorde. There is no comparison.

The markets will have to reinvent themselves over and over again for the next few years because we still don't even know what Cryprocurrency is yet. So there is absolutely no validity in any comparison or prediction you or anyone else makes.

Stick to the facts. Crypto is the future, Bitcoin is crypto gold and there will only ever be 21 million of them. The rest, right now, is irrelevant.

I am sticking to the facts. In 800 years we have seen the invention of the modern financial system, the printing press leading to a mass-enlightenment of the global population, the steam engine, the combustion engine, railways, electronics, instant global communication, an explosion in global population from a few tens of millions of people to 7 billion - and through all of this change, the underlying financial developments were essentially the same over and over again.

Yet in all of this you claim that crypto is so wildly revolutionary that this time it is different? That would be ahistoric, narcissistic and delusional.

[freightjoe]

I am wondering where you can find this information about the whales cashing out? There is some report talking about it?

What I have read is about Charlie Lee getting rid of all his Litecoins: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/after-7-500-rally-cryptocurrency-founder-sells-all-his-coins  which created a bit of doubts and fear, but after his explanation (bit weird for me, but I prefer to think that each one of us have different believes and reasons to do what we do) it seems that no crash happened with Litecoin.

So, how we can know about effects of whales cashing out, if we already don't know if that is happening for sure?

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127707-just-sold-half-bitcoin
http://nordic.businessinsider.com/this-danish-billionaire-just-made-a-killing-on-bitcoin-2017-11/

Lol, so these two links which are the same story and that have zero way of being confirmed are your entire argument?

Lol, typical behaviour of people with religious fervor not wanting to learn. And, yes, Bitcoin is a religion with the devoted constantly chanting "hodl" in the hope that is will save them. It will never matter to the believers how many or how few links are posted, it will never be enough. And after the shock of the crash they will be looking for someone else than themselves to blame for their misfortune.

[GwSoJ]

Hey freightjoe, you're biggest problem here is you are trying to compare a crypto market to a normal market. It's not even a valid comparison, can't be and never will be.

Anyone cashing in BTC for fiat is an idiot and if they sell 10,000 Bitcoin at once and the price drops a few thousand dollars then I will happily buy them.

So basically your argument is that this time it is different?

Try a little reading: https://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640

It is a solid well-researched book covering the last 800 years showing that it is never different in terms of financial bubbles. And don't delude yourself into thinking the world has not seen tremendous technological inventions in the past 800 years.....

This time it's different in comparison to what? of course it's different because it's brand new.

It's not a financial bubble because it's not financial. It's technological. It's like comparing the travel logs of steam ships from London to New York vs the same trip done on Concorde. There is no comparison.

The markets will have to reinvent themselves over and over again for the next few years because we still don't even know what Cryprocurrency is yet. So there is absolutely no validity in any comparison or prediction you or anyone else makes.

Stick to the facts. Crypto is the future, Bitcoin is crypto gold and there will only ever be 21 million of them. The rest, right now, is irrelevant.

I am sticking to the facts. In 800 years we have seen the invention of the modern financial system, the printing press leading to a mass-enlightenment of the global population, the steam engine, the combustion engine, railways, electronics, instant global communication, an explosion in global population from a few tens of millions of people to 7 billion - and through all of this change, the underlying financial developments were essentially the same over and over again.

Yet in all of this you claim that crypto is so wildly revolutionary that this time it is different? That would be ahistoric, narcissistic and delusional.

What are you talking about man? The only thing in that post you just made that is even relevant to this discussion is the invention of the modern financial system. Which is now old, defunct and just about to be re-invented so also has very little relevance.

If you think the financial system today is the same as it was 800 years ago then you clearly know absolutely nothing about the financial system.

Stop digging mate. You're in a hole you can't get out of already.

[Oulay]

No real point in discussing with you as you are clearly incapable of rational analysis. The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

The same reply, again and again.. Every time someone puts you in the corner you say that he is incapable of rational analysis...
Just show me one sentence based on rational analysis in the whole quote pyramid in your post!
Even your original post is based on stupid speculations and still you come here and talk about rational analysis..
you were wrong last time.. you'll be wrong this time.. and you'll be wrong every next time in the future...

Even if bitcoin is a bubble and even if it bursts one day, no one of us will be able to tell that "this drop" is the last one that "this time" is the time bitcoin will collapse.. It didn't burst any time when the price dropped in the past, so why should it burst now? Thus, the best strategy is to act like it's not the last drop because most probably it won't be..

[freightjoe]

What are you talking about man? The only thing in that post you just made that is even relevant to this discussion is the invention of the modern financial system. Which is now old, defunct and just about to be re-invented so also has very little relevance.

If you think the financial system today is the same as it was 800 years ago then you clearly know absolutely nothing about the financial system.

Stop digging mate. You're in a hole you can't get out of already.

Try thinking a bit, that usually helps.

So you genuinely mean that the whole industrial revolution was not relevant for the financial development?
That the population explosion was not relevant for the financial development?
That the invention of modern communication tools (and computers) was not relevant for financial development?

If this is truly what you believe, then your understanding of economics (and history) is indeed very very poor.

This time is clearly not different - right down to ill-informed short sighted people hyping the latest craze because to them this time it is different

[saedasda]

I dont think that whales are cashing out but they are only changing token. Dont panic bro this is just the beginning  

[freightjoe]

No real point in discussing with you as you are clearly incapable of rational analysis. The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

The same reply, again and again.. Every time someone puts you in the corner you say that he is incapable of rational analysis...
Just show me one sentence based on rational analysis in the whole quote pyramid in your post!
Even your original post is based on stupid speculations and still you come here and talk about rational analysis..
you were wrong last time.. you'll be wrong this time.. and you'll be wrong every next time in the future...

Even if bitcoin is a bubble and even if it bursts one day, no one of us will be able to tell that "this drop" is the last one that "this time" is the time bitcoin will collapse.. It didn't burst any time when the price dropped in the past, so why should it burst now? Thus, the best strategy is to act like it's not the last drop because most probably it won't be..

Read this one: https://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640
And then tell my that it is not based on rational analysis. And, please, tell me why this time - for the first time in 800 years - it is different.

[GwSoJ]

What are you talking about man? The only thing in that post you just made that is even relevant to this discussion is the invention of the modern financial system. Which is now old, defunct and just about to be re-invented so also has very little relevance.

If you think the financial system today is the same as it was 800 years ago then you clearly know absolutely nothing about the financial system.

Stop digging mate. You're in a hole you can't get out of already.

Try thinking a bit, that usually helps.

So you genuinely mean that the whole industrial revolution was not relevant for the financial development?
That the population explosion was not relevant for the financial development?
That the invention of modern communication tools (and computers) was not relevant for financial development?

If this is truly what you believe, then your understanding of economics (and history) is indeed very very poor.

This time is clearly not different - right down to ill-informed short sighted people hyping the latest craze because to them this time it is different

Aww, resorting to insults already, very weak.

The industrial revolution came out of requirement for more stuff and due to advancements in technology. The financial system that built up around it had nothing to do with it. This is basic stuff, shame you can't seem to get your head around it.

The population explosion happened because we could produce more food, better medicine and hygiene. Once again it had nothing to do with finance that yet again grew beside it but not because of it.

You're argument is like an old woman's fart. It's weak, watery and has no substance to it.

[bitterguy28]

This is true, but I suggest to hold and be patient. Don't get affected on the price dropping. I will hold my bitcoin because I am thinking of on the future that for sure I can gain profit if I will patiently wait on that day that I can en-cash in the right time. Maybe If I can have my 1 btc for the future that would be great.

I agree with you mate patience and calm guys do not panic about bitcoin falll down that is not healthy for us, for my observation about bitcoin dump and pump have a good effect, if bitcoin dumping the price for the short time and wait the bounce back and huggable interest profits return can get.

[Oulay]

No real point in discussing with you as you are clearly incapable of rational analysis. The crash is coming, that is unchanged. That this is a bubble is beyond any doubt. That the bubble is driven by a combination of greed and sheer blind stupidity is also beyond a shadow of a doubt. The whales are in the process of cashing out, leaving the naive to take the fall.

The same reply, again and again.. Every time someone puts you in the corner you say that he is incapable of rational analysis...
Just show me one sentence based on rational analysis in the whole quote pyramid in your post!
Even your original post is based on stupid speculations and still you come here and talk about rational analysis..
you were wrong last time.. you'll be wrong this time.. and you'll be wrong every next time in the future...

Even if bitcoin is a bubble and even if it bursts one day, no one of us will be able to tell that "this drop" is the last one that "this time" is the time bitcoin will collapse.. It didn't burst any time when the price dropped in the past, so why should it burst now? Thus, the best strategy is to act like it's not the last drop because most probably it won't be..

Read this one: https://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640
And then tell my that it is not based on rational analysis. And, please, tell me why this time - for the first time in 800 years - it is different.

Everything the link says is that bitcoin will crash someday.. It's not saying that it will crash today.. While your original post is just about guessing that it will crash today, like you guessed - and were wrong - last time..
And btw I'm not saying that this time is different..

Actually, you should tell me why this time is different?? why among all the previous falls in bitcoin price it recovered to a much higher price, but this time it's gonna burst??

[Dapper]

It's the same game (zero sum, like all securities/commodities markets all over the world).  Sell it down and buy back in.   

[freightjoe]

Read this one: https://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640
And then tell my that it is not based on rational analysis. And, please, tell me why this time - for the first time in 800 years - it is different.

Everything the link says is that bitcoin will crash someday.. It's not saying that it will crash today.. While your original post is just about guessing that it will crash today, like you guessed - and were wrong - last time..
And btw I'm not saying that this time is different..

Actually, you should tell me why this time is different?? why among all the previous falls in bitcoin price it recovered to a much higher price, but this time it's gonna burst??

You are literally commenting on the content of the link without even reading what the content is? The link - as would be evident - is to a book on Amazon. As you will see because it deals with 800 years is not specific on Bitcoin. It is hard-core analysis showing exactly why it is never different - and never has been. I can see why you have a tough time understanding new items when you approach to anything not fitting your preconceived notions is simply dismissed based on what you guess the content is, not what the actual content is.

[freightjoe]

It's the same game (zero sum, like all securities/commodities markets all over the world).  Sell it down and buy back in.   

So you believe the markets are a zero sum game? Sorry to break it to you, but you are quite wrong....

[tech72]

We will never know. Price has been stable. Who knows Bitcoin might rise to 100k in few months. Whales as well as small traders have been cashing out for a while.

[Dapper]

It's the same game (zero sum, like all securities/commodities markets all over the world).  Sell it down and buy back in.  

So you believe the markets are a zero sum game? Sorry to break it to you, but you are quite wrong....

And how would you define a market (and this includes everything in the world from fish in the market to the Nasdaq to crypto) where one person buys and the other sells?

 

[ahmad21]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

Just because one of the so called co founder of bitcoin has been alleged to sell of his bitcoins it doesn't really means that every whales is just selling off. Maybe its just that its a very normal correction in btc price. Yes one has to accept that bitcoin is no longer the old bitcoin and the blockchain on which it works really stinks now due to a lot of congestion but still btc is not out of confidence.

[Oulay]

You are literally commenting on the content of the link without even reading what the content is? The link - as would be evident - is to a book on Amazon. As you will see because it deals with 800 years is not specific on Bitcoin. It is hard-core analysis showing exactly why it is never different - and never has been. I can see why you have a tough time understanding new items when you approach to anything not fitting your preconceived notions is simply dismissed based on what you guess the content is, not what the actual content is.

I won't be reading the whole fuckin book just because you put its link in a post! I just read what is in the page you put its link and its enough to know what the book is about..

Everything the link says is that bitcoin will crash someday.. It's not saying that it will crash today.. While your original post is just about guessing that it will crash today, like you guessed - and were wrong - last time..

And btw I'm not saying that this time is different..

Actually, you should tell me why this time is different?? why among all the previous falls in bitcoin price it recovered to a much higher price, but this time it's gonna burst??

And again I say that I'm not saying this time is different.. Even if it's the same we can still make money out of it.
On the other hand, you didn't even respond to my question.. Why? Can't you understand it?

[freightjoe]

You are literally commenting on the content of the link without even reading what the content is? The link - as would be evident - is to a book on Amazon. As you will see because it deals with 800 years is not specific on Bitcoin. It is hard-core analysis showing exactly why it is never different - and never has been. I can see why you have a tough time understanding new items when you approach to anything not fitting your preconceived notions is simply dismissed based on what you guess the content is, not what the actual content is.

I won't be reading the whole fuckin book just because you put its link in a post! I just read what is in the page you put its link and its enough to know what the book is about..

You clearly are lying now.

Your initial comment to the link was :

Everything the link says is that bitcoin will crash someday

There is nothing in that page even close to what you are saying here.

There is no point in discussing this point with you when you are simply flat out lying.

But this is also typical of people who are afraid to admit that they are wrong - then they would much rather tell obvious lies than admit they are wrong.

[coinycoiny]

This time it's different in comparison to what? of course it's different because it's brand new.

It's not a financial bubble because it's not financial. It's technological. It's like comparing the travel logs of steam ships from London to New York vs the same trip done on Concorde. There is no comparison.

The markets will have to reinvent themselves over and over again for the next few years because we still don't even know what Cryprocurrency is yet. So there is absolutely no validity in any comparison or prediction you or anyone else makes.

Stick to the facts. Crypto is the future, Bitcoin is crypto gold and there will only ever be 21 million of them. The rest, right now, is irrelevant.

That's quite a good comparison, concorde was a white elephant that never made a profit.

it is def a bubble, people are paying stupid money for something that doesn't work, and only because they think they can sell it on for more tomorrow. Well hate to tell you, the bubble will burst at some point. Maybe it might even have started.

[otrkid70]

Watching Bitrex and the market. BTC went from $15,800-$15,200 in a matter of a few minutes. The selling in unreal. looks like the whales are definitely cashing out.


Broke $14k 

[kidoseagle0312]

The best time to sell cryptocoins is when the buyers are the most crowded. So whales can sell big parts of portfolios to the others. This is the right detection. Best strategy is; Gain less but do not lose  

I agreed with you, that's the simplest things to find out to do the right timing of selling our token in the platform. Because its hard to sell our coins if there is no buyers are a getting interest to buy in the coins that we are selling it. 

[Reid]

No. Your post is all about conversion only. Not really about bitcoin.

Look, there could be some reason behind this.
If only those small transaction could be erased from the blockchain so that it will be fast again then I guess this wont be needed to happen.
But miners are getting a lot of spam tx now which couldve been just in one pool.
I got one that is stucked also for two days now. I dont blame anyone for it. This is our own fault or the others who wont use it for the right price.

[samuraijin]

I do not think with their scenario of the price they do, because in my opinion it's better if the pope will cash because they will twist back with it then anyone will be able to buy with a certain value

[Oulay]

You are literally commenting on the content of the link without even reading what the content is? The link - as would be evident - is to a book on Amazon. As you will see because it deals with 800 years is not specific on Bitcoin. It is hard-core analysis showing exactly why it is never different - and never has been. I can see why you have a tough time understanding new items when you approach to anything not fitting your preconceived notions is simply dismissed based on what you guess the content is, not what the actual content is.

I won't be reading the whole fuckin book just because you put its link in a post! I just read what is in the page you put its link and its enough to know what the book is about..

You clearly are lying now.

Your initial comment to the link was :

Everything the link says is that bitcoin will crash someday

There is nothing in that page even close to what you are saying here.

There is no point in discussing this point with you when you are simply flat out lying.

But this is also typical of people who are afraid to admit that they are wrong - then they would much rather tell obvious lies than admit they are wrong.

It seems that you don't understand what your link is all about. It doesn't have to explicitly say "bitcoin" to be explained the way I explained it..
And by the way you still didn't answer my question so I'm done arguing with you...

[A.Delaney]

Honestly I hope all the whales cash out and the price corrects. Then bitcoin can be put back into the hands of the people that care about it and the price will slowly recover as it should over time.

[GwSoJ]

This time it's different in comparison to what? of course it's different because it's brand new.

It's not a financial bubble because it's not financial. It's technological. It's like comparing the travel logs of steam ships from London to New York vs the same trip done on Concorde. There is no comparison.

The markets will have to reinvent themselves over and over again for the next few years because we still don't even know what Cryprocurrency is yet. So there is absolutely no validity in any comparison or prediction you or anyone else makes.

Stick to the facts. Crypto is the future, Bitcoin is crypto gold and there will only ever be 21 million of them. The rest, right now, is irrelevant.

That's quite a good comparison, concorde was a white elephant that never made a profit.

it is def a bubble, people are paying stupid money for something that doesn't work, and only because they think they can sell it on for more tomorrow. Well hate to tell you, the bubble will burst at some point. Maybe it might even have started.

You missed the point entirely. Concorde was a technical marvel v the steam ship.

It's not a bubble because Bitcoin has intrinsic worth due to the fact it has a finite amount. It's not just scarce like gold, you may always find more gold, it's finite.

Can't be a bubble and people who keep calling it a bubble just don't understand what a bubble is.

[freightjoe]

You are literally commenting on the content of the link without even reading what the content is? The link - as would be evident - is to a book on Amazon. As you will see because it deals with 800 years is not specific on Bitcoin. It is hard-core analysis showing exactly why it is never different - and never has been. I can see why you have a tough time understanding new items when you approach to anything not fitting your preconceived notions is simply dismissed based on what you guess the content is, not what the actual content is.

I won't be reading the whole fuckin book just because you put its link in a post! I just read what is in the page you put its link and its enough to know what the book is about..

You clearly are lying now.

Your initial comment to the link was :

Everything the link says is that bitcoin will crash someday

There is nothing in that page even close to what you are saying here.

There is no point in discussing this point with you when you are simply flat out lying.

But this is also typical of people who are afraid to admit that they are wrong - then they would much rather tell obvious lies than admit they are wrong.

It seems that you don't understand what your link is all about. It doesn't have to explicitly say "bitcoin" to be explained the way I explained it..
And by the way you still didn't answer my question so I'm done arguing with you...

Jeez... you still haven't read it. I have read the whole bloody book....

[coinycoiny]

It's not a bubble because Bitcoin has intrinsic worth due to the fact it has a finite amount. It's not just scarce like gold, you may always find more gold, it's finite.

Can't be a bubble and people who keep calling it a bubble just don't understand what a bubble is.

So the last time it went to $1000+ and then down to under $200 wasn't a bubble then?

Get real.

[KwizatzHaderach]

Whales will be cashing out and the weak hands will follow suit. It will be a bloodbath. Once the chaos caused by the whales are over.
They will buyback at a lower price, pumping the prices again. Pump and dump imho is real.

[ZainSpider]

Just hodl guyz, you will regret if you don't hodl.

[fulmetal08larz]

Of course they are cashing out, it's probably because they have earned enough profit, most small time investors might also be cashing out because they need the money for their expenses this coming holiday. It does not mean that Bitcoin will be dead and gone because there will be more investors coming in and grabbing the opportunity to buy at a discounted price. More posts like this will keep coming in every time bitcoin's price goes down, which I find as an opportunity to accumulate more btc for long term.

[cl37007]

It's not necessarily a bad thing, if the whales are selling then the distribution of Bitcoin gets to a wider audience. The more spread the amount of Bitcoin is the better, I would be very surprised if the whales were holding onto some still

[Shaibana]

You posted a non developed idea, like many people said, you can choose what fee to pay and a foreseeable move like this would not be able to collapse the market

[tdrinker]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

What evidence do you have that the whales are cashing out? If many real whales were cashing out then the hurt bitcoin would feel would be much greater, maybe some people holding decent holdings, 50-100 BTC might be cashing out but the true whales I don't think so.

[freightjoe]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

What evidence do you have that the whales are cashing out? If many real whales were cashing out then the hurt bitcoin would feel would be much greater, maybe some people holding decent holdings, 50-100 BTC might be cashing out but the true whales I don't think so.

The whales know how to do this. They don't just put up 50.000BTC for sale in one big dump. They do it small pieces at a time, keeping the price artificially propped up as long as they can.

[Boseda]

Every post of you is about spreading FUD about Bitcoin and its community. What's your goal?

[Dudeperfect]

Exactly, this is a usual scene that we see even during the rallies of the stock market. Things work well for the expert traders but at the same time, mostly newbies suffer from those rallies because whales usually buy during the correction and cash out when things are in the air whereas new traders get in when the price is high (expecting further growth) but then price falls according to the increase in the market supply (whale's cash out) and hence panic trading doesn't work and victims are newbies in most of the cases.

[kaysersoze]

Not only the whales, everybody is trying to cashout right now.
The only ones who are not cashing out are those who does not even have enough money to pay fees (40 dollars for a single transaction is a lot) so those who have $20 or $50 are not going to be able to cashout.

[icanscript]

Not only the whales, everybody is trying to cashout right now.
The only ones who are not cashing out are those who does not even have enough money to pay fees (40 dollars for a single transaction is a lot) so those who have $20 or $50 are not going to be able to cashout.

This is not true.
The volume of the market shows the transfer of money into altcoyins, and not their withdrawal from the market

[Galih_Al karim]

Man is sometimes never satisfied with the results he gets, always a little less and less but my view is different I should be grateful for the results that I get any amount.

[Pain Packer]

It is the best time for them to that. They are just grabbing the opportunity.

[darkangel11]

Not only the whales, everybody is trying to cashout right now.
The only ones who are not cashing out are those who does not even have enough money to pay fees (40 dollars for a single transaction is a lot) so those who have $20 or $50 are not going to be able to cashout.

Yea keep spreading FUD. There's so many people who are keeping $50 in BTC on their wallets and are waiting for a chance to cash out but the fees are stopping them Did a fairy whisper that into your ear?
If even 50% of the people who are holding coins on the exchanges decided to sell we'd have a giant red candle all the way below $10k and all we're seeing is a healthy correction to 15k, but we will most likely go down a bit more, at least to retest 12k. Now what makes you think that everyone is trying to sell when we were at 12k just 10 days ago! How can people be so blind and always take current prices for granted. The fact that it has been at 19k for a couple hours doesn't mean that it's an established value.

[Fileiro]

OP is right.

This is how the game is played in ALL markets.

Dump on the newcomers, in order to buy back in at much lower prices.

There's a mega-bull coming in alts in 2018 when the whales rotate their funds there from BTC.

[Itjoker]

Cashing out before Christmas holidays is normal situation. You also can do the same or just wait for winter rise of cryptomarket.

[FrenchBTC]

Hi everybody,

Just to remind you that there is somethng called...SEGWIT....to decrease fees (use Ledger Nano S for example...)

If only every BTC believer could use it today...the situation could be really better, while waiting for the Lightning Network

[GwSoJ]

It's not a bubble because Bitcoin has intrinsic worth due to the fact it has a finite amount. It's not just scarce like gold, you may always find more gold, it's finite.

Can't be a bubble and people who keep calling it a bubble just don't understand what a bubble is.

So the last time it went to $1000+ and then down to under $200 wasn't a bubble then?

Get real.

Like i said, some people don't know what a bubble is. 

[lidd0512]

nice topic, most people are in ATH time ,unconscious of the breaking bubble, looking forward to higher and higher expectations ,yesterday is a good lesson.but i think it doesnt not end.

[Dapper]

Whales never leave the water.   They surface and dive, surface and dive.    Small fish and plankton typically spend their entire lives running (swimming) for their lives in panic. 

[cloud69]

Yeah, as if you have any proof that whales are actually cashing out.

[ZoonearNTR]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

Its all because of the christmas eve. So it doesn't matter much and it is the best time to buy for buyers who have been waiting to buy at low price. It's not wise to transaction less amount like 50 with a bitcoin fee of 20$.

[Stooked]

Now we see big whales control price and Network bitcoin in danger because those big whales.

i see many make big transaction 10-100 bitcoins

[olubams]

The extreme escalation in transaction times is there to ensure the whales can cash out but that smaller investors cannot.

Whales can make large transactions, the fees do not mean as much to them.

At the same time the small investors cannot cash out because their investment is quite small compared to the fees.

The result is the following:

- Whales are cashing out, converting to fiat
- Newbies are buying from the whales in the hope of continues increases
- Existing smaller investors do not want to sell now (despite possible large profits) because of the high fees is you only have a small investment (Today another bitcoiner on this forum has to pay a 20$ fee for a 50$ transaction).

When the whales have completed the sell-off, smaller bitcoin investors can finally begin to sell and that will be the trigger for a complete collapse in the price.

When price is going down, you blame the whales when its rising, you even blame the whales the more thinking that they are not human beings. if truly they are cashing out now, then its a way for you as a small time investor to even cash out because the market is free for everyone to participate whether big or small. Just do your calculations right and be part of the whales by buying when the price is low.