2013-07-30 Digital Asset Transfer Authority Announced

[BCB]

Troll... it happens around here...

[LostDutchman]

Big government types who are only here to help you out!

"help yout out"; right.

HELP YOU RIGHT OUT OF BUSINESS!

Halfwits!

Why did you quote me, halfwit? Nothing you said was relevant to what I said.

Sorry, I was not callng YOU a halfwit and used the quote feature only to attempt to maintain continuity of the thread.  As you ca see, I deleted the post but stand by my assertion that those who attempt to establish any kind of organised authority over cryptocurrency are defeating one of the very foundations of that currency as authority means control.

Mea Culpa!

I should have been more clear first time 'round!

[BCB]

LostDutchman,

Thank you for updating your post.

No one is trying create "an Authority OVER cryptocurrency".  If you understood the technology of the decentralized ledger of bitcoin you would realize that is not possible.  Bitcoin is disintermediation on steroids.

DATA is merely a group of bitcoin businesses who are saying that its members are planning to operate their businesses accourding to the laws of their countries as they understand them  and to ask for clarity when those laws and regulation are not clear.  

Pretty simple.

Also if you could do some research you can see that regulation is doing little to slow the bitcoin economy:

According to Jeff Garzik's http://bitcoinwatch.com/

In the last 24 hours there have been:
55,879 Transactions (2328.29 per hour!)
749,510.38 BTC SENT (31,229.60 BTC per hour)

That is $76,225,205.65 USD at current Mt Gox USD price.

The bitcoin money supply is also currently larger then the GDP of 25 of the worlds countries.


Seychelles   1,031   2012 est.
Solomon Islands   1,011   2012 est.
Gambia, The   918   2012 est.
Guinea-Bissau   870   2012 est.
Sint Maarten   794.7   2008
Grenada   790   2012 est.
Vanuatu   783   2012 est.
Saint Kitts and Nevis   734   2012 est.
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines   712   2012 est.
Northern Mariana Islands   733   2010
Samoa   683   2012 est.
Comoros   600   2012 est.
Dominica   497   2012 est.
Tonga   476   2012 est.
American Samoa   462.2   2005
São Tomé and Príncipe   264   2012 est.
Micronesia, Federated States of   238.1   2008
Cook Islands   183.2   2005 est.
Anguilla   175.4   2009 est.
Kiribati   173   2012 est.
Falkland Islands   164.5   2007 est.
Palau   164   2008
Marshall Islands   161.7   2008 est.
Tuvalu   37   2012 est.
Niue   10.01   2003




Not bad for a 4 year old economy.

[prophetx]

There are laws and regulations in each of our contrives that exist now with relation to virtual currencies regardless of what some of the geniuses on this forum thinks and there are SERIOUS consequences for not obeying these laws EVEN IF YOU ARE IGNORANT OF THEM.

If only Wall St. and Washington were more respectful of the laws, your vociferous endorsements of a corrupt system might ring less hollow. In other news, the NSA is unconstitutionally collecting all of your on-line data. Maybe they need "educating" also? You'd think lawyers would have plenty to keep themselves busy besides virtual currencies in MMPOGs .... basically, get a life.

Totally agree

What is happening as we sit here in the US govt should be brought to light, then bring all of these rogue govt personnel into court for prosecution for failing to uphold their oaths to uphold the US constitution

Then throw them all into Leavenworth

[LostDutchman]

I completely understand your position and thank you for understanding mine.

Not possible for governments to control crypto?

Wanna bet?

How about the USA govt or any govt anyplace on the planet decides that since crypto cannot be controlled, crypto simply gets shut down?

The USA feds have a strong history of domain seizure and any or all of the exchanges and the sites of the cryptocurrencies themselves could be shout down literally by the push of a button and the right software.  They have done it already (See Megaupload for example) and as soon as they figure out that there is no real way to tax crypto, they will hammer away at it until there is.

The NSA could use Narus software to track down every miner on the planet if they haven't already.

Crypto was designed and intended to be an essentially underground economic system and should remain that way.

My $.02.

[BCB]

There are laws and regulations in each of our contrives that exist now with relation to virtual currencies regardless of what some of the geniuses on this forum thinks and there are SERIOUS consequences for not obeying these laws EVEN IF YOU ARE IGNORANT OF THEM.

If only Wall St. and Washington were more respectful of the laws, your vociferous endorsements of a corrupt system might ring less hollow. In other news, the NSA is unconstitutionally collecting all of your on-line data. Maybe they need "educating" also? You'd think lawyers would have plenty to keep themselves busy besides virtual currencies in MMPOGs .... basically, get a life.

Totally agree

What is happening as we sit here in the US govt should be brought to light, then bring all of these rogue govt personnel into court for prosecution for failing to uphold their oaths to uphold the US constitution

Then throw them all into Leavenworth

That's not happening any time soon.

If it is any consolation, in the US some of the culprits in the financial crisis are finally being prosecuted.

SAC hedgfund and a number of its traders have been indited:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505266_162-57597147/new-sheriff-of-wall-street-preet-bharara-talks-sac-capital-insider-trading/

Justice Dept. Sues Bank of America Over Mortgage Securities
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/justice-sues-bank-of-america-over-mortgage-securities/?ref=litigation

Goldman Sachs and Fabrice Tourre charged with Securites Fraud
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2010/comp-pr2010-59.pdf

This is already more then happen in the HSBC money laundering case.

HSBC settles Money Laundering case for 1.9B - No criminal prosecution.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-02/hsbc-judge-approves-1-9b-drug-money-laundering-accord.html

[BCB]

I completely understand your position and thank you for understanding mine.

Not possible for governments to control crypto?

Wanna bet?

How about the USA govt or any govt anyplace on the planet decides that since crypto cannot be controlled, crypto simply gets shut down?

The USA feds have a strong history of domain seizure and any or all of the exchanges and the sites of the cryptocurrencies themselves could be shout down literally by the push of a button and the right software.  They have done it already (See Megaupload for example) and as soon as they figure out that there is no real way to tax crypto, they will hammer away at it until there is.

The NSA could use Narus software to track down every miner on the planet if they haven't already.

Crypto was designed and intended to be an essentially underground economic system and should remain that way.

My $.02.

Anything is possible.  But I don't this this statement is accurate.
"Crypto was designed and intended to be an essentially underground economic system"

[J603]

I completely understand your position and thank you for understanding mine.

Not possible for governments to control crypto?

Wanna bet?

How about the USA govt or any govt anyplace on the planet decides that since crypto cannot be controlled, crypto simply gets shut down?

The USA feds have a strong history of domain seizure and any or all of the exchanges and the sites of the cryptocurrencies themselves could be shout down literally by the push of a button and the right software.  They have done it already (See Megaupload for example) and as soon as they figure out that there is no real way to tax crypto, they will hammer away at it until there is.

The NSA could use Narus software to track down every miner on the planet if they haven't already.

Crypto was designed and intended to be an essentially underground economic system and should remain that way.

My $.02.

Anything is possible.  But I don't this this statement is accurate.
"Crypto was designed and intended to be an essentially underground economic system"

This is something I agree with. Bitcoin is supposed to be the economic system some day.

[BCB]

file sharing has not ended movie rentals

iTunes has not ended CD sales

email has not ended the post office.

YET.

So don't expect digital currency to replace fiat anytime soon

but it is a pretty slick alternative and the more people learn about it the quicker the economy will grow.

Look for extensive use first in
-international remittance
-on line payments

much work has to be done on the UI and the payments protocol.

I'm very much looking forward to bitcoin v. 0.8.9 if they can implement BIP 70

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0070

[J603]

file sharing has not ended movie rentals

iTunes has not ended CD sales

email has not ended the post office.

True. But currency is very different from those examples. It is the most important commodity. There won't be two somewhat equally used forms of currency around, like with CDs and iTunes. There will either be one or the other.

And email won't end the post office. You can't email a package. 

[LostDutchman]

I think many have forgotten:

"Bitcoin uses peer-to-peer technology to operate with no central authority or banks; managing transactions and the issuing of bitcoins is carried out collectively by the network. Bitcoin is open-source; its design is public, nobody owns or controls Bitcoin and everyone can take part. Through many of its unique properties, Bitcoin allows exciting uses that could not be covered by any previous payment system."

http://bitcoin.org/en/

Stop opening the doors for government control!

My $.02!

[BCB]

file sharing has not ended movie rentals

iTunes has not ended CD sales

email has not ended the post office.

True. But currency is very different from those examples. It is the most important commodity. There won't be two somewhat equally used forms of currency around, like with CDs and iTunes. There will either be one or the other.

And email won't end the post office. You can't email a package. 

But you can send VIA UPS or FEX EX both successful private forms of package delivery.

Bitcoin too is a private currency.  It is very possible that there emerges bot a public and private payment systems.

[BCB]

I think many have forgotten:

"Bitcoin uses peer-to-peer technology to operate with no central authority or banks; managing transactions and the issuing of bitcoins is carried out collectively by the network. Bitcoin is open-source; its design is public, nobody owns or controls Bitcoin and everyone can take part. Through many of its unique properties, Bitcoin allows exciting uses that could not be covered by any previous payment system."

http://bitcoin.org/en/

Stop opening the doors for government control!

My $.02!

LostDutchMan what you fail to understand is that NO ONE  opened doors to government control.  Laws currently exist with regards to the transmission and use of  currency.  FinCEN only clarified that with their March 18 Guidance. 

Now you may not think that is fair, or it may not be right, but you can not deny that it exists. 

And that guidance was handed down without any effort by DATA or the Bitcoin Foundation or anyone else.

What DATA is trying to do is prevent more doors from being closed.

I suggest you research the pre-paid card industry.  They faced similar regulation and now you can find rack of them hanging in every Walmart, K-Mart, Wallgreens, CVS etc.   And if that industry did not interact with the government and regulators through the Network Branded Prepaid Card Association (http://www.nbpca.com/) that would currently not currently be the case.

[LostDutchman]

file sharing has not ended movie rentals

iTunes has not ended CD sales

email has not ended the post office.

True. But currency is very different from those examples. It is the most important commodity. There won't be two somewhat equally used forms of currency around, like with CDs and iTunes. There will either be one or the other.

And email won't end the post office. You can't email a package. 

But you can send VIA UPS or FEX EX both successful private forms of package delivery.

Bitcoin too is a private currency.  It is very possible that there emerges bot a public and private payment systems.

UPS and FedEx private?

Think so?

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/11/16/183045/99/crimenews/DEA-vs-Fedex-and-UPS-Why-a-Criminal-Probe-

[BCB]

file sharing has not ended movie rentals

iTunes has not ended CD sales

email has not ended the post office.

True. But currency is very different from those examples. It is the most important commodity. There won't be two somewhat equally used forms of currency around, like with CDs and iTunes. There will either be one or the other.

And email won't end the post office. You can't email a package.  

But you can send VIA UPS or FEX EX both successful private forms of package delivery.

Bitcoin too is a private currency.  It is very possible that there emerges bot a public and private payment systems.

UPS and FedEx private?

Think so?

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/11/16/183045/99/crimenews/DEA-vs-Fedex-and-UPS-Why-a-Criminal-Probe-

yes Private.  (well they may be publicly traded)
But the point being is that they are successful in that they operate within the boundaries of law.  Even if that law requires them to co-operate with government investigations.

Sorry.  This is unfortunately the world we live in. You certainly don't have to participate. Any many choose not to.

Check out: http://agorism.info/

[LostDutchman]

file sharing has not ended movie rentals

iTunes has not ended CD sales

email has not ended the post office.

True. But currency is very different from those examples. It is the most important commodity. There won't be two somewhat equally used forms of currency around, like with CDs and iTunes. There will either be one or the other.

And email won't end the post office. You can't email a package.  

But you can send VIA UPS or FEX EX both successful private forms of package delivery.

Bitcoin too is a private currency.  It is very possible that there emerges bot a public and private payment systems.

UPS and FedEx private?

Think so?

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/11/16/183045/99/crimenews/DEA-vs-Fedex-and-UPS-Why-a-Criminal-Probe-

yes Private.  (well they may be publicly traded)
But the point being is that they are successful in that they operate within the boundaries of law.  Even if that law requires them to co-operate with government investigations.

Sorry.  This is unfortunately the world we live in. You certainly don't have to participate. Any many choose not to.

Check out: http://agorism.info/

Hey, I LIKE that site!

Thanks!

[BCB]

You're welcome!

As far as I know this is still a free country and there are plenty of people exercising their civil liberties with out too much government intervention.  

Here are two more sites you should know about:

http://freestateproject.org/

http://porcfest.com/

And here is a great libertarian radio station.

http://www.freetalklive.com/

[LostDutchman]

You're welcome!

As far as I know this is still a free country and there are plenty of people exercising their civil liberties with out too much government intervention.  

Here are two more sites you should know about:

http://freestateproject.org/

http://porcfest.com/

And here is a great libertarian radio station.

http://www.freetalklive.com/

Thanks again!