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Question: What is your opinion of the Maximum role of Government in society?
Absolute: Government should control all services and prices. - 4 (4.7%)
Moderate: the Government should control some services, and not others (explain) - 23 (26.7%)
Minimal: The Government should limit itself to courts and military. - 32 (37.2%)
None: All services and goods should be provided privately (or collectively). - 27 (31.4%)
Total Voters: 85

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Author Topic: Maximum role of Government?  (Read 23105 times)
MoonShadow
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July 07, 2011, 04:14:01 AM
 #21

And the economy which uses bitcoins as its financial instrument cannot be regulated.

It sure as hell can be. Use your imagination.

I want you to use your's, and tell me how you think that the bitcoin economy can be regulated.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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myrkul
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July 07, 2011, 04:15:21 AM
 #22

And the economy which uses bitcoins as its financial instrument cannot be regulated.

It sure as hell can be. Use your imagination.

You're the statist here. You use your imagination and tell me how you can force me to do shit with my BTC.

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July 07, 2011, 04:20:13 AM
 #23

And the economy which uses bitcoins as its financial instrument cannot be regulated.

It sure as hell can be. Use your imagination.

You're the statist here. You use your imagination and tell me how you can force me to do shit with my BTC.

First of all, I'm not purely a statist, according to the definition of statism.

Regarding regulation, I don't need to know or care about your BTC. I can simply knock on your door. However, I'm not really interested in exploring such a police type state nor am I an advocate of it. But you did ask me.

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MoonShadow
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July 07, 2011, 04:29:48 AM
 #24

And the economy which uses bitcoins as its financial instrument cannot be regulated.

It sure as hell can be. Use your imagination.

You're the statist here. You use your imagination and tell me how you can force me to do shit with my BTC.

First of all, I'm not purely a statist, according to the definition of statism.

Regarding regulation, I don't need to know or care about your BTC. I can simply knock on your door.

You would have to find my door, first.  Even if you could, you would then have to prove that I had any bitcoin, would you not?  How would you propose to do these things?  If you can produce a credible scenario, then I'm selling because Bitcoin is a failure.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 07, 2011, 04:32:15 AM
 #25

Need more examples? I'm not saying these are desirable, but you did ask me to use my imagination, since you didn't want to take me up on the question yourself.

I can knock on your door and collect BTC or possessions from you based upon all sorts of different metrics:

  • The length of your fence
  • The square footage of your roof
  • How many pounds of living human flesh occupy your residence
  • The pollutants coming out of your tailpipe
  • The readings measured from your breath
  • The number of eyeballs you have
  • The number of legs you have

There are no limits to the imagination.

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July 07, 2011, 04:34:32 AM
 #26

You would have to find my door, first.  Even if you could, you would then have to prove that I had any bitcoin, would you not?  How would you propose to do these things?  If you can produce a credible scenario, then I'm selling because Bitcoin is a failure.

I would just go to everyone's door. And I wouldn't care how much bitcoin you had or where you kept it. As I said, I could employ other metrics.

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July 07, 2011, 04:35:43 AM
 #27

And in an anarchy, they wouldn't call me a government. They'd call me a tyrant.

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myrkul
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July 07, 2011, 04:38:07 AM
 #28

I can knock on your door and collect BTC or possessions from you based upon all sorts of different metrics:

And how are you going to collect?
And in an anarchy, they wouldn't call me a government. They'd call me a tyrant.

Yes, yes they would. "Sic Semper Tyranus"

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MoonShadow
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July 07, 2011, 04:38:30 AM
 #29

Need more examples? I'm not saying these are desirable, but you did ask me to use my imagination, since you didn't want to take me up on the question yourself.

I can knock on your door and collect BTC or possessions from you based upon all sorts of different metrics:

  • The length of your fence
  • The square footage of your roof
  • How many pounds of living human flesh occupy your residence
  • The pollutants coming out of your tailpipe
  • The readings measured from your breath
  • The number of eyeballs you have
  • The number of legs you have

There are no limits to the imagination.

None of these are regulations upon Bitcoin, or it's economy.  This would require the implimentation of a total police state.  I don't consider that much of a threat, myself.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 07, 2011, 04:42:39 AM
 #30

None of these are regulations upon Bitcoin, or it's economy.  This would require the implimentation of a total police state.  I don't consider that much of a threat, myself.

Totally missing the point. If I can't monitor your Bitcoins, that doesn't preclude me from taxing you.

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MoonShadow
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July 07, 2011, 04:46:41 AM
 #31

None of these are regulations upon Bitcoin, or it's economy.  This would require the implimentation of a total police state.  I don't consider that much of a threat, myself.

Totally missing the point. If I can't monitor your Bitcoins, that doesn't preclude me from taxing you.

Oh, I didn't miss the point.  And I don't disagree that taxes can be levied in other ways.  There are many other ways to tax than direct taxation of income.  I was talking about regulation of Bitcoin or the economy around it.  Taxation is but one form of regulation.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 07, 2011, 04:47:32 AM
 #32

None of these are regulations upon Bitcoin, or it's economy.  This would require the implimentation of a total police state.  I don't consider that much of a threat, myself.

Totally missing the point. If I can't monitor your Bitcoins, that doesn't preclude me from taxing you.

I ask again, How are you going to collect?

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July 07, 2011, 04:49:57 AM
 #33

I ask again, How are you going to collect?

What part of this aren't you getting?

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myrkul
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July 07, 2011, 04:51:40 AM
 #34

I ask again, How are you going to collect?

What part of this aren't you getting?

The part where you end up with my money. You still haven't explained that.

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July 07, 2011, 04:52:22 AM
 #35

Oh, I didn't miss the point.  And I don't disagree that taxes can be levied in other ways.  There are many other ways to tax than direct taxation of income.  I was talking about regulation of Bitcoin or the economy around it.  Taxation is but one form of regulation.

Why would I need to regulate Bitcoin? I can just regulate you.

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July 07, 2011, 04:52:46 AM
 #36

The part where you end up with my money. You still haven't explained that.

Tyrants can be very persuasive.

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myrkul
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July 07, 2011, 04:54:41 AM
 #37

The part where you end up with my money. You still haven't explained that.

Tyrants can be very persuasive.

For a little while. Sic Semper...

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July 07, 2011, 04:57:30 AM
 #38

For a little while. Sic Semper...

Oh, you mean where society evolves and a government supersedes the tyranny? Or do you mean the long line of wannabe tyrants waiting to step in after him?

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MoonShadow
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July 07, 2011, 05:01:10 AM
 #39

Oh, I didn't miss the point.  And I don't disagree that taxes can be levied in other ways.  There are many other ways to tax than direct taxation of income.  I was talking about regulation of Bitcoin or the economy around it.  Taxation is but one form of regulation.

Why would I need to regulate Bitcoin? I can just regulate you.

Only the part of me that you know.  You can't know all.  Can you regulate the tunnel people in NYC's abandoned train tunnels?  Can you regulate the Appalation hillbillly making meth in the woods?  I think that you overestimate your capacities as a government.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 07, 2011, 05:01:35 AM
 #40

For a little while. Sic Semper...

Oh, you mean where society evolves and a government supersedes the tyranny? Or do you mean the long line of wannabe tyrants waiting to step in after him?

Ever hear of survival of the fittest?

That long line would get pretty short, mighty fast.

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