"TripleMining is a scam..." DiabloD3, can you please prove it?

[PandaMiner]

Sticky a thread that says Triplemining spams, sure go ahead, even though it was a tiny percentage of the people mining here.

But sticky a thread that says triplemining is scam, that's bullshit.

+1

This is what pisses me off.  A moderator's opinion is law around here? Just because you have the power to post your opinion into a sticky (and not allow discussion) does not make your opinion cannon.


EDIT:

As an aside, numerous companies use a referral system that doesn't result in spam.  Paypal is a great example.  The spam results not so much from the system, but from the inappropriate decisions of individual users.  Lets not put the cart before the horse.

+1

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[Fiyasko]

The refferal system for the pool, He's saying that it's adding flood and spam and it shouldn't exsist

"I don't think it's a scam. However, the people who set up TripleMining knew this was going to happen, it's the standard consequence of a referal system. "They didn't make the threads themselves" is not a valid excuse - that's like paying some company to spam blogs with a link to your site, and then saying 'yeah well, *I* didn't spam'."

It's Spam Weather or not you opened the can of spam, Your the ones who brought it home from the store

I am just biting my tongue, trying not to use red herrings here.  It's fallacies like these that make the situation worse.  Jack, your opinion has merit, to some degree, but your method leaves something to be desired.

Allright i understand what your laying down on the carpet.
_______________________________________________
As far as advertisements go, They exsist to Pay the Television Channels, And the Channels Pay for shows, And shows bring attention to the ads.

This is an understandable system, And it can be compared to the refferal system.
But the leading differance was stated earlier in this thread, It's the whole "10 completely individual pool threads vs 10 pool threads leading to the same pool"

People can Mute the TV and turn it off, But whenever we browse the forums They're is always a damn triple mining post(may or maynot be true at this point in time)

We get nothing out of the triple mining threads unless we're apart of triple mining, You COULD append that to "well i dont watch that channel so i get nothing from it"
But the differance is that we cant "turn off" the triple mining tv channel, It's like an ad on Every tv station.

[Auspician]

But the differance is that we cant "turn off" the triple mining tv channel, It's like an ad on Every tv station.

So you would oppose Pepsi on similar grounds because they advertise on every TV station and you don't drink Pepsi? 

[Fiyasko]

But the differance is that we cant "turn off" the triple mining tv channel, It's like an ad on Every tv station.

So you would oppose Pepsi on similar grounds because they advertise on every TV station and you don't drink Pepsi?  

Honestly, I've never seen the same ad on more than Three differant channels, And now i think about it, I havent seen a Pepsi commercial in a Long time but thats besides the point. I know what your saying.

my point in this post is that im More than confident that Any product that gets advertised doesnt have Nearly Close to enough money to pay for ads on All channels, érgo i stand by what i stated before unless new info arises, And i say "no i would not" because they dont, But if they did.

IF they had the same ad on Every station, I wouldnt complain, Why? Because They are Paying the Channel Im Watching to keep running even if i hate pepsi Yes the ads would be more than annoying, But as stated before, I can just hit mute, Or Power.
Wich gives you the argument of "well get off the internet" (a bad one yeah, obviously your not gonna pull that)
Whereas i Cant seem to doge the Triple mining ads and i Do Not benefit from them in Any way shape or form

[fascistmuffin]

Maybe the scam part is about triplemining misleading people into thinking they'll be able to make three times more than at other pools. For someone running an average MH/s mining rig, this would mean that:

Σ(Referred Members's Income * 0.01) = Miners's Income * 0.99 * 3

For a Miner's income of 0.050:

Σ(Referred Member's Income * 0.01) = .050  * 0.99 * 3 = 0.1485
Σ(Referred Member's Income) * Σ(0.01) = 0.1485
Σ(Referred Member's Income) * 0.01 = 0.1485
Σ(Referred Member's Income) = 14.85

14.85/50 = .297 -> 30% of the reward is taken by that single pool, so a maximum of three people can get triple rewards off off 0.50 income in that round.

[Auspician]

Its been stated pretty clearly that the reason for the name 'Triple Mining' is because that is the cap on earnings.  At most, you can make up to triple what you'd make on your own.  Honestly, if people are really that naive to believe that just by joining a particular pool they'll make triple their mining income that is their own issue, not the pools. 

[Fiyasko]

Its been stated pretty clearly that the reason for the name 'Triple Mining' is because that is the cap on earnings.  At most, you can make up to triple what you'd make on your own.  Honestly, if people are really that naive to believe that just by joining a particular pool they'll make triple their mining income that is their own issue, not the pools. 

Lol Yup

[PandaMiner]

But the differance is that we cant "turn off" the triple mining tv channel, It's like an ad on Every tv station.

I know what I am about to say is a poor, blanket response, but I feel the need to offer the option.

Did you know you can turn off signatures?  It will turn off EVERYONE'S though. Kind of like turning off the TV forever, just because you don't want to see late-night infomercials. I know. But, here is how you accomplish this:

• click on Profile
• the on the sidebar, find and click 'Look and Layout Preferences'
• find the 4th check-box and check it. [Don't show users' signatures.]

[joepie91]

Sticky a thread that says Triplemining spams, sure go ahead, even though it was a tiny percentage of the people mining here.

But sticky a thread that says triplemining is scam, that's bullshit.

I have to agree on this one.

And seriously, cut the attitude.  I'm sick of your derogatory and insulting comments across this board.  

Not sure if that was also a response to my post. Anyhow.

No, that was directed to the 'jackass' comment by JackRabiit.

EDIT: I have no issues with referal links in signatures. I DO have issues with people combining that 'undercover referal link' in their signature with pointless/dishonest threads or posts, just to make people pay attention to that link in your signature. And I DO have issues with threads that are just made to advertise a referal link.

I couldn't agree more.  Reasonably sized images/referral links in signatures are not a problem, as long as they don't encourage people to post inane or irrelevant comments just to have their referral image show up.  The spammy behavior is the decision of a few individuals who need to receive warnings to change their behavior or be banned.  It is not the decision of the entire TripleMining community.

As an aside, numerous companies use a referral system that doesn't result in spam.  Paypal is a great example.  The spam results not so much from the system, but from the inappropriate decisions of individual users.  Lets not put the cart before the horse.

I haven't seen PayPal actively offer people incentives for refering other users... do you have a link to anything about that?

But the differance is that we cant "turn off" the triple mining tv channel, It's like an ad on Every tv station.

I know what I am about to say is a poor, blanket response, but I feel the need to offer the option.

Did you know you can turn off signatures?  It will turn off EVERYONE'S though. Kind of like turning off the TV forever, just because you don't want to see late-night infomercials. I know. But, here is how you accomplish this:

• click on Profile
• the on the sidebar, find and click 'Look and Layout Preferences'
• find the 4th check-box and check it. [Don't show users' signatures.]

To be honest I don't think anyone was complaining about signatures, rather about the spammy posts and threads.

[PandaMiner]

Did you know you can turn off signatures?  It will turn off EVERYONE'S though. Kind of like turning off the TV forever, just because you don't want to see late-night infomercials. I know.

To be honest I don't think anyone was complaining about signatures, rather about the spammy posts and threads.

Yeah, I know. :-/  Just trying to shine the light on one of the options available.  If you read my other posts lately, I agree about too many threads about TM.  One might say "well, don't read the threads if you don't like what they have to say."  On the other hand (otoh), going down a list of topics (threads) and having it seem like every other one is about TM is bad.

PS: I use to be a (multi-) forum administrator for 10 years. I was pretty good at it too.  But too many forum newbies gave me a headache. (I'm talking about forum etiquette and the like.) But I digress.

[joepie91]

Did you know you can turn off signatures?  It will turn off EVERYONE'S though. Kind of like turning off the TV forever, just because you don't want to see late-night infomercials. I know.

To be honest I don't think anyone was complaining about signatures, rather about the spammy posts and threads.

Yeah, I know. :-/  Just trying to shine the light on one of the options available.  If you read my other posts lately, I agree about too many threads about TM.  One might say "well, don't read the threads if you don't like what they have to say."  On the other hand (otoh), going down a list of topics (threads) and having it seem like every other one is about TM is bad.

It's actually a bit like the TV advertisement analogy made earlier. Sure, you can say 'just go get a drink while the Pepsi advertisement is running', but if the program you are watching gets interrupted every 3 minutes for a 30 second Pepsi commercial, on every channel, then it'll quickly start to be annoying, to the point where you would give up watching the program.

Disclaimer: all that I said in this thread also goes for most notably Tradehill, which has caused a significant amount of spam especially after they just launched. It's interesting how even the pyramid scheme seems to have generated less spam than TH and TM.

[talldude]

Let's make it VERY CLEAR here that triple mining is simply a modified pyramid scheme. As such, it's a scam for the average user.

[Fiyasko]

Let's make it VERY CLEAR here that triple mining is simply a modified pyramid scheme. As such, it's a spam for the average user.

Agreed

[Auspician]

Let's make it VERY CLEAR here that triple mining is simply a modified pyramid scheme. As such, it's a scam for the average user.

Except its not.  Pyramid schemes are by their nature unsustainable, relying upon new participants to pay into the system to provide earnings for older participants.  Triple Mining costs nothing upfront, and the only person who benefits from a new participant is the single person who referred them.  A two-layered payout system certainly is not a pyramid.  And since its completely sustainable it cannot be considered a pyramid scheme.

Don't believe me?  Check out the wikipedia entry defining exactly what a pyramid scheme is and you'll see that the ONLY similarity between such a scheme and TripleMining is that TM provides an incentive for referrals.

[Fiyasko]

Let's make it VERY CLEAR here that triple mining is simply a modified pyramid scheme. As such, it's a scam for the average user.

Except its not.  Pyramid schemes are by their nature unsustainable, relying upon new participants to pay into the system to provide earnings for older participants.  Triple Mining costs nothing upfront, and the only person who benefits from a new participant is the single person who referred them.  A two-layered payout system certainly is not a pyramid.  And since its completely sustainable it cannot be considered a pyramid scheme.

Don't believe me?  Check out the wikipedia entry defining exactly what a pyramid scheme is and you'll see that the ONLY similarity between such a scheme and TripleMining is that TM provides an incentive for referrals.

Let's make it VERY CLEAR here that triple mining is simply a modified pyramid scheme. As such, it's a spam for the average user.

Agreed

Awe my joke was missed. Auspician is correct

[Auspician]

Oh I caught it, but only after I had begun typing up my post, so I decided to post it anyway. 

[joepie91]

... relying upon new participants to pay into the system to provide earnings for older participants ...

Actually, that is exactly what it does. Only you don't pay in USD or BTC, but in computing power.

Triple Mining costs nothing upfront, and the only person who benefits from a new participant is the single person who referred them. 

In the end Triple Mining gets fees, so the more people that join Triple Mining, the more fees Triple Mining itself rakes in (to my understanding).

And since its completely sustainable it cannot be considered a pyramid scheme.

Seems like a valid argument to me.

[Auspician]

... relying upon new participants to pay into the system to provide earnings for older participants ...

Actually, that is exactly what it does. Only you don't pay in USD or BTC, but in computing power.

The key word here is rely.  TripleMining can continue functioning indefinitely even if no new participants join up.  Sure, there are bonuses if new people *do* join up, but the system doesn't *rely* upon having new participants.

Triple Mining costs nothing upfront, and the only person who benefits from a new participant is the single person who referred them. 

In the end Triple Mining gets fees, so the more people that join Triple Mining, the more fees Triple Mining itself rakes in (to my understanding).

TripleMining redistributes all fees to its members.  Those people who are in a minipool pay their 1% fee to the person who referred them, and those people not in a minipool have their 1%'s totaled up and given away to a random miner in a weekly jackpot. 

At present, the pool operator earns nothing but the satisfaction of having a successful pool. 

[DullJack]

... relying upon new participants to pay into the system to provide earnings for older participants ...

Actually, that is exactly what it does. Only you don't pay in USD or BTC, but in computing power.

Triple Mining costs nothing upfront, and the only person who benefits from a new participant is the single person who referred them.  

In the end Triple Mining gets fees, so the more people that join Triple Mining, the more fees Triple Mining itself rakes in (to my understanding).

And since its completely sustainable it cannot be considered a pyramid scheme.

Seems like a valid argument to me.

You would be expending the exact same amount of processing power regardless of the pool you are in.

Almost every pool keeps the transaction fee, when you aren't taking any of the 1% you need to meet server costs somehow.

Is every pool a pyramid scheme then?

This is the last post I am going to make on the subject, then I will just go back to biting my tongue.


Triplemining it is lacking several of the things that make a pyramid scheme a pyramid scheme. In fact, it's really crazy, because if you really tear the system apart and examine it, it exactly resembles A REFERRAL SYSTEM! Wow, what shock!

It is simply a referral system. I just look at it this way, I can mine deepbit and lose 3-10%, which goes directly into Tycho's pocket, neither I or anybody else mining has any chance to see any of that percentage. Or with triplemining I can pay 1%, which goes to the person above me AND ENDS THERE. People really flip out when they see an operator that is giving the pool fee back to the pool rather than stuffing his own pockets. I don't understand this, where is the scam?

 
Out of the ~200 miners in this pool, 2 or 3 made their own threads rather than sticking to the triplemining thread. I agree it is annoying. I agree that it is unneccesary.

I disagree with the fact that Diablo used the word "scam" in his sticky to slander triplemining and sabotage MrSam's reputation in the community. He is a stand-up guy whose greatest concern is making his pool-members happy and keeping the pool running smoothly. I haven't seen a pool-owner that actually cares as much as MrSam.

 I see pool operators that put a plug for their pool in literally every post they make, yet nobody calls them "scammers".

The sticky is a really sketchy attempt to discredit and slander (technically libel I guess) MrSam and his pool, is in incredibly poor taste, and offers absolutely no evidence or explanation. Nice to see the mods pulling the kind of stuff that they are supposed to moderate against. The pool hash rate has dropped significantly since this sticky was made because people think there is some ACTUAL SCAM happening that ISN'T. Unless Diablo has some actual evidence to back up his claim, that sticky needs to be removed. Otherwise it is character assassination as well as the most uncouth thing I have seen in a long time, and that's saying something. Way to let your personal opinion affect your duties as a mod.


Maybe I should spam my referral link around the forums so we can get our hash rate back up...

[joepie91]

... relying upon new participants to pay into the system to provide earnings for older participants ...

Actually, that is exactly what it does. Only you don't pay in USD or BTC, but in computing power.

The key word here is rely.  TripleMining can continue functioning indefinitely even if no new participants join up.  Sure, there are bonuses if new people *do* join up, but the system doesn't *rely* upon having new participants.

For the additional earnings (the earnings that you would otherwise not get with another pool), it *does* rely on new participants.

Triple Mining costs nothing upfront, and the only person who benefits from a new participant is the single person who referred them. 

In the end Triple Mining gets fees, so the more people that join Triple Mining, the more fees Triple Mining itself rakes in (to my understanding).

TripleMining redistributes all fees to its members.  Those people who are in a minipool pay their 1% fee to the person who referred them, and those people not in a minipool have their 1%'s totaled up and given away to a random miner in a weekly jackpot. 

At present, the pool operator earns nothing but the satisfaction of having a successful pool. 

And what are the plans for the future? How is the operator planning to monetize his pool? I fail to see how a non-profit pool would use an aggressive referal scheme like this.