laughted at me when I said ASIC companies are manipulating you

[mmitech]

few months ago I started a topic about "ASICs are over priced", and allot of people shitted on me and told me to shut up, and ASICs are not expensive and I just cannot afford them, I felt dispointed at the time because I've thought that the Bitcoin spirit was bigger than that and some guys manipulating the community.    

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.0

well look, most ASIC vendors are playing you, and I am so happy that I couldn't afford to buy one.  What you gonna do about it? still continue to pre-order  and lick their ass, even when they take your investment and doesn't give a f*** about your concerns.


I work in a big company where we are one of the best in what we do, and customer satisfaction is our capital.   think about this very well  

[Bitcoinorama]

Totally agree with you, did then, did now.

Pricing affects the desire to recoup NRE and have sufficient means of production, distribution, marketing and customer service as well as the standard business requirements. Beyond that it is about making a profit.

[Xialla]

+1, totally agree. I already sold everything except Jupiter preorder, because KNC still seems legit in my eyes. Otherwise, you are absolutely right.

[dogie]

LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.

[mmitech]

Totally agree with you, did then, did now.

Pricing affects the desire to recoup NRE and have sufficient means of production, distribution, marketing and customer service as well as the standard business requirements. Beyond that it is about making a profit.

yes I remember, you were one a the few who agreed with me. but I know that I will get the same shit all over again.

I say this today as reminder for people, If we do not value our selves, these companies wont value us as customers.

[mmitech]

LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.

yes and they are still overpriced, but people still buy them right..... you get it ?

[crazyates]

I can't take anyone on this forum seriously if:

A) They have that many spelling/grammar errors while trying to sound intelligent, and
B) Whine and complain and take everything personally. This is the internet: no one gives two shits about your opinion.

[mmitech]

I can't take anyone on this forum seriously if:

A) They have that many spelling/grammar errors while trying to sound intelligent, and
B) Whine and complain and take everything personally. This is the internet: no one gives two shits about your opinion.

thank you, your opinion means so much to me as well  

[GenTarkin]

yeah, you are completely correct mmitech. Ive been stating nearly the same thing in several IRC chats for months now.

ASIC suppliers are the only ones who are doing the real profit in the bitcoin "ASIC ERA"

They know that if price of BTC is up & diff is reasonably low comparably, people will be willing to shovel tons of money into an ASIC so the suppliers just pin a high pricetag on them, making bank on the customer.
They know that if price of BTC is down & diff is still pretty high, the demand for hardware drops significantly and therefore the suppliers will drop price accordingly but still make a decent profit off customer.

The perfect example of this for all to see in clear daylight is bitfury USA's price structure on their preorders. The AUG preorders costing 2.5x more than OCT preorders ... those ASICs still cost them the same to make no matter if AUG or OCT...so they are just ripping the fuckall off the customer and laughing at the arms race the miners are creating for themselves against diff.

This is the downside of having bitcoin-only ASIC suppliers who have no other business. They change price based on demand. So not only do you have the miners in competition w/ each other based on a fixed price for hardware no matter the diff / price (like GPU's) ... now you have the companies who supply the hardware in competition w/ all sectors of the ASIC era.

Thats why I liked GPU's... AMD didnt give a fuck about bitcoin , hence they didnt price there GPU's according to the demand in bitcoin mining. So, every miner had equal chance in GPU era. In ASIC era, it all depends on the customer whos willing to risk the most to come out on top, by giving a shit ton of money to ASIC suppliers which is an unfair advantage to hobby miners.

In the end what this really comes down too is ASIC suppliers pricing future hardware so close to possible profits, that miners wont actually make any profit because they will simply be saving up a stack of BTC w/ current hardware just to afford the next gen ASIC hardware... and this will simply keep happening over and over. Only when one decides to stop mining can they take their BTC & cashout.

I look at what my avy batch 2 makes....basically to afford any hardware at this point in time, I would have to cash out any profit my avy made & thensome for a faster hasher that will suffer the same fate.
In the end it really sucks for us miners when the suppliers will price stuff exactly in this manner.

They know what to charge to make bank off us and keep the illusion alive that we have a chance of making profit =P ... when all we are doing is saving up to buy yet again more hardware from the suppliers...generation after generation.

[mmitech]

yeah, you are completely correct mmitech. Ive been stating nearly the same thing in several IRC chats for months now.

ASIC suppliers are the only ones who are doing the real profit in the bitcoin "ASIC ERA"

They know that if price of BTC is up & diff is reasonably low comparably, people will be willing to shovel tons of money into an ASIC so the suppliers just pin a high pricetag on them, making bank on the customer.
They know that if price of BTC is down & diff is still pretty high, the demand for hardware drops significantly and therefore the suppliers will drop price accordingly but still make a decent profit off customer.

The perfect example of this for all to see in clear daylight is bitfury USA's price structure on their preorders. The AUG preorders costing 2.5x more than OCT preorders ... those ASICs still cost them the same to make no matter if AUG or OCT...so they are just ripping the fuckall off the customer and laughing at the arms race the miners are creating for themselves against diff.

This is the downside of having bitcoin-only ASIC suppliers who have no other business. They change price based on demand. So not only do you have the miners in competition w/ each other based on a fixed price for hardware no matter the diff / price (like GPU's) ... now you have the companies who supply the hardware in competition w/ all sectors of the ASIC era.

Thats why I liked GPU's... AMD didnt give a fuck about bitcoin , hence they didnt price there GPU's according to the demand in bitcoin mining. So, every miner had equal chance in GPU era. In ASIC era, it all depends on the customer whos willing to risk the most to come out on top, by giving a shit ton of money to ASIC suppliers which is an unfair advantage to hobby miners.

In the end what this really comes down too is ASIC suppliers pricing future hardware so close to possible profits, that miners wont actually make any profit because they will simply be saving up a stack of BTC w/ current hardware just to afford the next gen ASIC hardware... and this will simply keep happening over and over. Only when one decides to stop mining can they take their BTC & cashout.

I look at what my avy batch 2 makes....basically to afford any hardware at this point in time, I would have to cash out any profit my avy made & thensome for a faster hasher that will suffer the same fate.
In the end it really sucks for us miners when the suppliers will price stuff exactly in this manner.

They know what to charge to make bank off us and keep the illusion alive that we have a chance of making profit =P ... when all we are doing is saving up to buy yet again more hardware from the suppliers...generation after generation.

+1

and these companies still tells you  "we are doing it to help secure the network" yes right more like "to fill your pockets"

[dogie]

LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.

LOL!  You dumb shit.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.msg2341763#msg2341763

And did I buy them to mine? No. I mined 12 btc per blade and sold them above cost price. Fuck you and your simplistic brain, you'd evaporate in my presence.

[dropt]

LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.

LOL!  You dumb shit.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.msg2341763#msg2341763

And did I buy them to mine? No. I mined 12 btc per blade and sold them above cost price. Fuck you and your simplistic brain, you'd evaporate in my presence.

LMFAO, I would not be surprised in the slightest to find you absolutely repulse people in the real world.  How's MIT going?  Must be a tough commute going between campus and your parent's basement in the UK.  Glad to hear you openly telling the world how you ripped people off and are proud of it.

[mmitech]

LOL? All you said was block erupters and usbs are overpriced... WE KNOW.

LOL!  You dumb shit.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.msg2341763#msg2341763

And did I buy them to mine? No. I mined 12 btc per blade and sold them above cost price. Fuck you and your simplistic brain, you'd evaporate in my presence.

I remember you

Then stop complaining. I had £12 in my bank account. Was bored, started my own £1M company at 13. Do something about it other than complain. In either case, why do we have to hear the QQ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.msg2343065#msg2343065

but you still beg for BTC

Paying for college: 15UhE4x7d1hD2o2YKCcdddzuhymsTKdeuz

see the deference between us, I am a man of logic... and I do not beg for money I work hard to earn it. and I want to wisely invest it 

[Hfleer]

few months ago I started a topic about "ASICs are over priced", and allot of people shitted on me and told me to shut up, and ASICs are not expensive and I just cannot afford them, I felt dispointed at the time because I've thought that the Bitcoin spirit was bigger than that and some guys manipulating the community.    

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.0

well look, most ASIC vendors are playing you, and I am so happy that I couldn't afford to buy one.  What you gonna do about it? still continue to pre-order  and lick their ass, even when they take your investment and doesn't give a f*** about your concerns.


I work in a big company where we are one of the best in what we do, and customer satisfaction is our capital.   think about this very well  

No one is forcing you to buy them.  If they're overpriced don't buy any, and they will have to lower the price to sell them.

[wrenchmonkey]

few months ago I started a topic about "ASICs are over priced", and allot of people shitted on me and told me to shut up, and ASICs are not expensive and I just cannot afford them, I felt dispointed at the time because I've thought that the Bitcoin spirit was bigger than that and some guys manipulating the community.    

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.0

well look, most ASIC vendors are playing you, and I am so happy that I couldn't afford to buy one.  What you gonna do about it? still continue to pre-order  and lick their ass, even when they take your investment and doesn't give a f*** about your concerns.


I work in a big company where we are one of the best in what we do, and customer satisfaction is our capital.   think about this very well  

Uh, everybody didn't "laugh" at you. You didn't say that ASIC companies were just manipulating everybody. You made very specific claims about the blades, and most people agreed with you, but tried to help you understand that this is market forces at work, not companies manipulating people:

I agree that they're overpriced, I just disagree with you in how you arrived at that conclusion.

ASIC Hardware (with the exception of BFL which doesn't count, because it's not something you can actually get your hands on right now), is over-priced, but only in the sense that it's unlikely to break even, or turn a decent profit at this point.

One's ability or inability to purchase a product has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's overpriced though. I can't afford to buy a 200,000 sq ft mansion, even if it's "under-priced" by market standards.

The reason these miners cost what they do is because the MARKET is willing to pay it. There are a lot of foolish people who aren't considering the return, and are focusing only on what they can afford (like yourself). What you can afford to pay, and what something's "worth" are not interchangeable terms. As long as people continue to overpay for ASIC hardware, it will continue to be overpriced, regardless of what your own individual finances look like.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.msg2343075#msg2343075

Now you want to come back and prop yourself up as some sort of prophet, because you complained about the pricing of one specific product, and now think that you can retroactively decide that it was a prophecy about all ASIC companies?

[zedicus]

yeah, you are completely correct mmitech. Ive been stating nearly the same thing in several IRC chats for months now.

ASIC suppliers are the only ones who are doing the real profit in the bitcoin "ASIC ERA"

They know that if price of BTC is up & diff is reasonably low comparably, people will be willing to shovel tons of money into an ASIC so the suppliers just pin a high pricetag on them, making bank on the customer.
They know that if price of BTC is down & diff is still pretty high, the demand for hardware drops significantly and therefore the suppliers will drop price accordingly but still make a decent profit off customer.

The perfect example of this for all to see in clear daylight is bitfury USA's price structure on their preorders. The AUG preorders costing 2.5x more than OCT preorders ... those ASICs still cost them the same to make no matter if AUG or OCT...so they are just ripping the fuckall off the customer and laughing at the arms race the miners are creating for themselves against diff.

This is the downside of having bitcoin-only ASIC suppliers who have no other business. They change price based on demand. So not only do you have the miners in competition w/ each other based on a fixed price for hardware no matter the diff / price (like GPU's) ... now you have the companies who supply the hardware in competition w/ all sectors of the ASIC era.

Thats why I liked GPU's... AMD didnt give a fuck about bitcoin , hence they didnt price there GPU's according to the demand in bitcoin mining. So, every miner had equal chance in GPU era. In ASIC era, it all depends on the customer whos willing to risk the most to come out on top, by giving a shit ton of money to ASIC suppliers which is an unfair advantage to hobby miners.

In the end what this really comes down too is ASIC suppliers pricing future hardware so close to possible profits, that miners wont actually make any profit because they will simply be saving up a stack of BTC w/ current hardware just to afford the next gen ASIC hardware... and this will simply keep happening over and over. Only when one decides to stop mining can they take their BTC & cashout.

I look at what my avy batch 2 makes....basically to afford any hardware at this point in time, I would have to cash out any profit my avy made & thensome for a faster hasher that will suffer the same fate.
In the end it really sucks for us miners when the suppliers will price stuff exactly in this manner.

They know what to charge to make bank off us and keep the illusion alive that we have a chance of making profit =P ... when all we are doing is saving up to buy yet again more hardware from the suppliers...generation after generation.

+1

Ding ding ding!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMoAhjA9dCE

[mmitech]

few months ago I started a topic about "ASICs are over priced", and allot of people shitted on me and told me to shut up, and ASICs are not expensive and I just cannot afford them, I felt dispointed at the time because I've thought that the Bitcoin spirit was bigger than that and some guys manipulating the community.    

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.0

well look, most ASIC vendors are playing you, and I am so happy that I couldn't afford to buy one.  What you gonna do about it? still continue to pre-order  and lick their ass, even when they take your investment and doesn't give a f*** about your concerns.


I work in a big company where we are one of the best in what we do, and customer satisfaction is our capital.   think about this very well  

Uh, everybody didn't "laugh" at you. You didn't say that ASIC companies were just manipulating everybody. You made very specific claims about the blades, and most people agreed with you, but tried to help you understand that this is market forces at work, not companies manipulating people:

I agree that they're overpriced, I just disagree with you in how you arrived at that conclusion.

ASIC Hardware (with the exception of BFL which doesn't count, because it's not something you can actually get your hands on right now), is over-priced, but only in the sense that it's unlikely to break even, or turn a decent profit at this point.

One's ability or inability to purchase a product has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's overpriced though. I can't afford to buy a 200,000 sq ft mansion, even if it's "under-priced" by market standards.

The reason these miners cost what they do is because the MARKET is willing to pay it. There are a lot of foolish people who aren't considering the return, and are focusing only on what they can afford (like yourself). What you can afford to pay, and what something's "worth" are not interchangeable terms. As long as people continue to overpay for ASIC hardware, it will continue to be overpriced, regardless of what your own individual finances look like.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.msg2343075#msg2343075

Now you want to come back and prop yourself up as some sort of prophet, because you complained about the pricing of one specific product, and now thing that you can retroactively decide that it was a prophecy about all ASIC companies?

- just to point out something. I can "pre-order" this right moment a hardware at these prices now, and I could "pre-order" a hardware even than, and even when I didn't have enough funds, I could work something out somehow, If it just seemed logical and reasonable. but it didn't that time and still don't .
- and yes this is what I am trying to say here, if we didn't have these fools doing the rally "who will get their asic first" and threw a shit load of money, no matter how these vendors disrespect them and shit on them and play them around, they still go and "pre-order" than beg and lick their ass as a bonus.

this is why the ASICs are over priced, but again you are still not getting it right ?  

[DyslexicZombei]

I'm new to ASIC BTC mining but thanks to arbitrage, and even with a couple of rookie moves, and even w/ most of my ordered equipment still "processing", in a little over a month from my first purchase, I already made ROI!  

It may be outside the bell curve but it happened for me after I did some research & made some acquisitions. Some people are just willing to take more risks but I accept the risks & am now in a position to buy a couple of Blades with house money that *will* ship in late Aug. or early Sept. or whatever dark horse appears in the next week or so.

I may re-sell them but at least I'll have hardware in-hand relatively efficiently hashing away at the rate of 20-40 GPUs.

Disclaimer: AM shareholder because in a gold rush, shovel makers & their concomitant suppliers (hello, Levis jeans!) are the ones that reliably make ROI. Plus, I feel like investing in a mining pool helps protect against hardware depreciation and inevitable hashing power loss thru 25% automatic hardware reinvestment.

[wrenchmonkey]

few months ago I started a topic about "ASICs are over priced", and allot of people shitted on me and told me to shut up, and ASICs are not expensive and I just cannot afford them, I felt dispointed at the time because I've thought that the Bitcoin spirit was bigger than that and some guys manipulating the community.    

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.0

well look, most ASIC vendors are playing you, and I am so happy that I couldn't afford to buy one.  What you gonna do about it? still continue to pre-order  and lick their ass, even when they take your investment and doesn't give a f*** about your concerns.


I work in a big company where we are one of the best in what we do, and customer satisfaction is our capital.   think about this very well  

Uh, everybody didn't "laugh" at you. You didn't say that ASIC companies were just manipulating everybody. You made very specific claims about the blades, and most people agreed with you, but tried to help you understand that this is market forces at work, not companies manipulating people:

I agree that they're overpriced, I just disagree with you in how you arrived at that conclusion.

ASIC Hardware (with the exception of BFL which doesn't count, because it's not something you can actually get your hands on right now), is over-priced, but only in the sense that it's unlikely to break even, or turn a decent profit at this point.

One's ability or inability to purchase a product has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's overpriced though. I can't afford to buy a 200,000 sq ft mansion, even if it's "under-priced" by market standards.

The reason these miners cost what they do is because the MARKET is willing to pay it. There are a lot of foolish people who aren't considering the return, and are focusing only on what they can afford (like yourself). What you can afford to pay, and what something's "worth" are not interchangeable terms. As long as people continue to overpay for ASIC hardware, it will continue to be overpriced, regardless of what your own individual finances look like.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.msg2343075#msg2343075

Now you want to come back and prop yourself up as some sort of prophet, because you complained about the pricing of one specific product, and now thing that you can retroactively decide that it was a prophecy about all ASIC companies?

- just to point out something. I can "pre-order" this right moment a hardware at these prices now, and I could "pre-order" a hardware even than, and even when I didn't have enough funds, I could work something out somehow, If it just seemed logical and reasonable. but it didn't that time and still don't .
- and yes this is what I am trying to say here, if we didn't have these fools doing the rally "who will get their asic first" and threw a shit load of money, no matter how these vendors disrespect them and shit on them and play them around, they still go and "pre-order" than beg and lick their ass as a bonus.

this is why the ASICs are over priced, but again you are still not getting it right ?  

Your point remains moot. You're living in a fantasy world. Not only were you not laughed at at the time, but nothing has changed to offer you any sort of vindication. The post that I made in your original thread remains just as relevant as it was at the time. If you don't have the money to invest, the potential ROI remains irrelevant.

If you do have the money to invest, you have to be smart about where you invest it. And, as with any investment, it's a risk, so you need to learn how to evaluate that, and make sure not to put all your eggs into one basket, or to invest in such a way that it would ruin you if things don't work out.

With your juvenile 'understanding' of these concepts, I feel that I should advise you that Bitcoin probably isn't your 'game'.

I'm envisioning you more as the 'fry cook' type.

[mmitech]

few months ago I started a topic about "ASICs are over priced", and allot of people shitted on me and told me to shut up, and ASICs are not expensive and I just cannot afford them, I felt dispointed at the time because I've thought that the Bitcoin spirit was bigger than that and some guys manipulating the community.    

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.0

well look, most ASIC vendors are playing you, and I am so happy that I couldn't afford to buy one.  What you gonna do about it? still continue to pre-order  and lick their ass, even when they take your investment and doesn't give a f*** about your concerns.


I work in a big company where we are one of the best in what we do, and customer satisfaction is our capital.   think about this very well  

Uh, everybody didn't "laugh" at you. You didn't say that ASIC companies were just manipulating everybody. You made very specific claims about the blades, and most people agreed with you, but tried to help you understand that this is market forces at work, not companies manipulating people:

I agree that they're overpriced, I just disagree with you in how you arrived at that conclusion.

ASIC Hardware (with the exception of BFL which doesn't count, because it's not something you can actually get your hands on right now), is over-priced, but only in the sense that it's unlikely to break even, or turn a decent profit at this point.

One's ability or inability to purchase a product has NOTHING to do with whether or not it's overpriced though. I can't afford to buy a 200,000 sq ft mansion, even if it's "under-priced" by market standards.

The reason these miners cost what they do is because the MARKET is willing to pay it. There are a lot of foolish people who aren't considering the return, and are focusing only on what they can afford (like yourself). What you can afford to pay, and what something's "worth" are not interchangeable terms. As long as people continue to overpay for ASIC hardware, it will continue to be overpriced, regardless of what your own individual finances look like.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222770.msg2343075#msg2343075

Now you want to come back and prop yourself up as some sort of prophet, because you complained about the pricing of one specific product, and now thing that you can retroactively decide that it was a prophecy about all ASIC companies?

- just to point out something. I can "pre-order" this right moment a hardware at these prices now, and I could "pre-order" a hardware even than, and even when I didn't have enough funds, I could work something out somehow, If it just seemed logical and reasonable. but it didn't that time and still don't .
- and yes this is what I am trying to say here, if we didn't have these fools doing the rally "who will get their asic first" and threw a shit load of money, no matter how these vendors disrespect them and shit on them and play them around, they still go and "pre-order" than beg and lick their ass as a bonus.

this is why the ASICs are over priced, but again you are still not getting it right ?  

Your point remains moot. You're living in a fantasy world. Not only were you not laughed at at the time, but nothing has changed to offer you any sort of vindication. The post that I made in your original thread remains just as relevant as it was at the time. If you don't have the money to invest, the potential ROI remains irrelevant.

If you do have the money to invest, you have to be smart about where you invest it. And, as with any investment, it's a risk, so you need to learn how to evaluate that, and make sure not to put all your eggs into one basket, or to invest in such a way that it would ruin you if things don't work out.

With your juvenile 'understanding' of these concepts, I feel that I should advise you that Bitcoin probably isn't your 'game'.

I'm envisioning you more as the 'fry cook' type.

I will really avoid going deeper on this one, you maybe know me but you do not know who I am, I was involved in many investment and projects, many were risky, and we had to decide if it was worth it, but we made the right choice almost always.
anyway to make a point here I will copy what gentarkin said, try to read it and think deeply about what he was trying to say, I am thinking the same way he does and have to agree with him

yeah, you are completely correct mmitech. Ive been stating nearly the same thing in several IRC chats for months now.

ASIC suppliers are the only ones who are doing the real profit in the bitcoin "ASIC ERA"

They know that if price of BTC is up & diff is reasonably low comparably, people will be willing to shovel tons of money into an ASIC so the suppliers just pin a high pricetag on them, making bank on the customer.
They know that if price of BTC is down & diff is still pretty high, the demand for hardware drops significantly and therefore the suppliers will drop price accordingly but still make a decent profit off customer.

The perfect example of this for all to see in clear daylight is bitfury USA's price structure on their preorders. The AUG preorders costing 2.5x more than OCT preorders ... those ASICs still cost them the same to make no matter if AUG or OCT...so they are just ripping the fuckall off the customer and laughing at the arms race the miners are creating for themselves against diff.

This is the downside of having bitcoin-only ASIC suppliers who have no other business. They change price based on demand. So not only do you have the miners in competition w/ each other based on a fixed price for hardware no matter the diff / price (like GPU's) ... now you have the companies who supply the hardware in competition w/ all sectors of the ASIC era.

Thats why I liked GPU's... AMD didnt give a fuck about bitcoin , hence they didnt price there GPU's according to the demand in bitcoin mining. So, every miner had equal chance in GPU era. In ASIC era, it all depends on the customer whos willing to risk the most to come out on top, by giving a shit ton of money to ASIC suppliers which is an unfair advantage to hobby miners.

In the end what this really comes down too is ASIC suppliers pricing future hardware so close to possible profits, that miners wont actually make any profit because they will simply be saving up a stack of BTC w/ current hardware just to afford the next gen ASIC hardware... and this will simply keep happening over and over. Only when one decides to stop mining can they take their BTC & cashout.

I look at what my avy batch 2 makes....basically to afford any hardware at this point in time, I would have to cash out any profit my avy made & thensome for a faster hasher that will suffer the same fate.
In the end it really sucks for us miners when the suppliers will price stuff exactly in this manner.

They know what to charge to make bank off us and keep the illusion alive that we have a chance of making profit =P ... when all we are doing is saving up to buy yet again more hardware from the suppliers...generation after generation.