Bitcoinorama: Shill for KNC? Hardware is too full of sock puppets

[Minor Miner]

Meh, not sure.. but copying and pasting the same WSJ article in about every thread yesterday or whenever it was recently was annoying as hell.. 

You have brought up another point, that people need to reply ONLY WITH THE RELEVANT part of the quote and not take more real estate than they need.     I do not need to see that same pic, quoted 20 times filling an entire page (usually I do not need to see the pic the first time either unless it is hardware OR VICUS showing that YIFU had mined with our machines for a month before sending them).   I really want to know what is going on with all these new vendors and it takes hours to read through the crap.

[Bitcoinorama]

Meh, not sure.. but copying and pasting the same WSJ article in about every thread yesterday or whenever it was recently was annoying as hell.. 

You have brought up another point, that people need to reply ONLY WITH THE RELEVANT part of the quote and not take more real estate than they need.     I do not need to see that same pic, quoted 20 times filling an entire page (usually I do not need to see the pic the first time either unless it is hardware OR VICUS showing that YIFU had mined with our machines for a month before sending them).   I really want to know what is going on with all these new vendors and it takes hours to read through the crap.

Yah, sorry about that. Just the irony that the journalist duped over a scammy Bitcoin story, was the same guy turning an interest to Bitcoin regulation and subpoenas. Thought it was relevant, turned into spambot. I'll knock it on the head. Peace.

[cypherdoc]

i still do not necessarily agree that using cc's is the best way to go for the consumer.

i believe that cc's encourages an intake of greater amounts of USD to fund these companies and their pre-orders than do restricting payments to BTC.  consider the situation of a malicious company that simply wants to take in as many USD's early on by adopting a payment strategy that facilitates this, drag out a delivery date to "expire" as many of the 60 day guarantees that the cc providers give, and then run with the money.  that's not good.

consider the scenario where the company is legit but then gets a false picture of what the demand for their product is simply b/c there are ppl out there wanting to reserve an order as a put option in case they change their minds.  that's not good either in that the volatility of that order book can cause a company to severely miss their targeted assumptions and result in BK resulting in loss of your money and long lasting support.

at least for a BTC accepting company, the significantly dampened volatility of their order book can be counted on when planning out their production strategy.  this is not an insignificant point.  it also helps the BTC economy by increasing money velocity thru the system.  and in the event of a scam or BK, at least the consumer hasn't lost tax or debt repayment USD's.

[jspielberg]

I think proposing that CC is bad for the customer is going to be a tough sell Cypher...

I personally prefer using BTC for philosophical reasons, but it is a currency currently based on trust (because it is "cash for the internet").  Cash is pretty risky for any pre-buy.

I am hoping as the BTC vendor landscape matures, more trustworthy players will enter.

The right course of action should be what gas stations across the USA had been doing for years... i.e. a price for the product in BTC and a price for the hardware using a CC.  CC price should be higher to reflect the risk to the company, and BTC cost should be lower to reflect the cost to the consumer.  If refunds are offered, it would be in the currency utilized.

[Bitcoinorama]

i still do not necessarily agree that using cc's is the best way to go for the consumer.

i believe that cc's encourages an intake of greater amounts of USD to fund these companies and their pre-orders than do restricting payments to BTC.  consider the situation of a malicious company that simply wants to take in as many USD's early on by adopting a payment strategy that facilitates this, drag out a delivery date to "expire" as many of the 60 day guarantees that the cc providers give, and then run with the money.  that's not good.

No, the assumption of '60 days' is false, that's down to the consumer to call their issuing bank and determine their level of protection. In the UK it's six years. That doesn't mean I can call fraud as and when I like and get free product and money, it means I'm sufficiently protected. Some card companies state third party payment methods like Paypal and Amazon negate this, so check with your card issuer. A guy y'day stated that a US Discover card carried him 180 days. It's depends on your card issuing bank, and the type of card you have.

consider the scenario where the company is legit but then gets a false picture of what the demand for their product is simply b/c there are ppl out there wanting to reserve an order as a put option in case they change their minds.  that's not good either in that the volatility of that order book can cause a company to severely miss their targeted assumptions and result in BK resulting in loss of your money and long lasting support.

You mean to fraudulently deceive a company into believing you're making a sale with no interest to purchase? You know full well about this, as you did it and it's illegal, yet you still try and justify your action in the Hashfast thread as acceptable;

yes, then don't order.

in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's.  like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury.  i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end.  so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.

That said I don't believe you fully appreciated the legality stipulated below, but the fact you still try and debate it in your thread as acceptable when you are a representative of a company is madness.

 Article 2, the 'Sales of Goods' in The Uniform Commercial Code.

"A contract of sale is a legal contract an exchange of goods, services or property to be exchanged from seller (or vendor) to buyer (or purchaser) for an agreed upon value in money (or money equivalent) paid or the promise to pay same. It is a specific type of legal contract."

at least for a BTC accepting company, the significantly dampened volatility of their order book can be counted on when planning out their production strategy.  this is not an insignificant point.  it also helps the BTC economy by increasing money velocity thru the system.  and in the event of a scam or BK, at least the consumer hasn't lost tax or debt repayment USD's.

This is FUD, you're trying to justify Hashfast's reasoning for accepting BTC payment, when the only reason they won't accept other forms of secure payment is because they don't want to deal with the aggro of appeasing issuing banks, card payment processors or Paypal's verification demands and sales terms. Any US company can do this, it should be a given, especially in the climate of people loosing monies invested here.

It may take the approval of the payment processors, but the real reason comes down to the fact Hashfast want to raise cash before Cointerra, or X-crowd, they know they are in a desperate race for a limited supply of cautious funding. This has nothing to do with  BTC (liquidity, not velocity!??), and everything to do with you earning your commission, by luring people into a deal that could easily be safer for them to participate in further compounded by the promise to double their hashrate if delayed, by enticing them to forgo common sense and act on impulse, whilst removing the ability to request a refund until way after the delivery date, at which point if you fail, who's getting refunded, and how?

Who's taking liability for all the monies spent? Fact is they're is no guaranteed refund in case of failure to deliver in a reasonable amount of time. Like KnC, and Cointerra the chips have to work first time, this is not the standard iterative process in designing IC components, only unlike KnC there is no recourse however you choose to spin it, and that matters to me.

Call me a KnC fanboy if you like, but I dismissed many deals before I saw one that was safe and acceptable by my own personal criteria. If you are claiming you can match on technical ability and deliver on time, then back it up with a secured payment method and stop promising people what you think they want to hear. To their credit KnC invited who ever they wanted around an open table to ask them whatever they liked and to have what ever proof they required without an NDA.

I don't go into threads looking for rows, but I will call BS when I see it.

[erschiessen]

Just another shill, same with cypherdock or whatever his name is, bitcoinorama posts as if it's his 24/7 job.

Entirely disagree.
Bitcoinorama put more effort into KnC than Cypherdoc has into HalfFast.

The latter gets paid, but the former does not.

IMO, it should be reversed.

One does due diligence in not only protecting his own investment, but the bitcoin community.
The other gets paid to spew nonsense and sound more like Inaba every day.

Shill?
Advocate, for sure.

[mmitech]

I'm no shill. I've been totally honest about any affiliation.

I visited them in Sweden and asked Q's you guys wanted whilst considering my own purchase and a jolly to Stockholm.

I met other forum members there. They were there before I arrived bag in hand from the airport. I can provide evidence of flights from the UK to Sweden if you're that bothered.

I have studied an engineering discipline and would like to work in Bitcoin, maybe KnC, but I don't want to receive any payment unless they prove they can deliver for the exact reason I don't want to have any responsibly for your own decisions.

I can say KnC are real and exist as I have been there.

I cannot and will not influence your decision making. You are responsible for your own research and due diligence.

I only share my own research, of which a lot is clearly KnC based as they are work in progress for me and I now have a vested interest.

By that statement I could also be a shill for Visa, Mcard and all card issuers!?

I don't want to see companies fail, I'm just fed up of seeing people ripped off. I believe Hashfast are real, I believe Cointerra are real. I haven't behaved maliciously towards them, but there is a long way to go before they offer people a safe and secure purchase.

Have you ever seen me say anything, anything but positive comments towards Bitfury? I'm in awe of that guy and his distribution means except card.

As for the date I joined, you're looking for reasons to throw accusations. Look at my posting history. I spent a significant amount of time in other threads before KnC were even on my radar.

It's cool to be inquisitive or uncertain, but don't jump to conclusions. I've a specific checklist of what O look for before committing to a purchase and BTC has been abused as a pre-order payment method. Fact.

I only read half this post, and I'm sorry to say...wait for it...+1.

I was rather critical of KnC and Bitcoinorama at the beginning, but not so much now. But, please keep a watchful eye on them, acting in the most professional manner as possible, while I go and stick it up BFL's ass.  

Oh, and BTW, did I read somewhere that some outfit has chips tied up in custom.

Yes I did notice the love story between you and BFL, Josh must miss you so much when you do not post something about them hahahahahha

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm no shill. I've been totally honest about any affiliation.

I visited them in Sweden and asked Q's you guys wanted whilst considering my own purchase and a jolly to Stockholm.

I met other forum members there. They were there before I arrived bag in hand from the airport. I can provide evidence of flights from the UK to Sweden if you're that bothered.

I have studied an engineering discipline and would like to work in Bitcoin, maybe KnC, but I don't want to receive any payment unless they prove they can deliver for the exact reason I don't want to have any responsibly for your own decisions.

I can say KnC are real and exist as I have been there.

I cannot and will not influence your decision making. You are responsible for your own research and due diligence.

I only share my own research, of which a lot is clearly KnC based as they are work in progress for me and I now have a vested interest.

By that statement I could also be a shill for Visa, Mcard and all card issuers!?

I don't want to see companies fail, I'm just fed up of seeing people ripped off. I believe Hashfast are real, I believe Cointerra are real. I haven't behaved maliciously towards them, but there is a long way to go before they offer people a safe and secure purchase.

Have you ever seen me say anything, anything but positive comments towards Bitfury? I'm in awe of that guy and his distribution means except card.

As for the date I joined, you're looking for reasons to throw accusations. Look at my posting history. I spent a significant amount of time in other threads before KnC were even on my radar.

It's cool to be inquisitive or uncertain, but don't jump to conclusions. I've a specific checklist of what O look for before committing to a purchase and BTC has been abused as a pre-order payment method. Fact.

I only read half this post, and I'm sorry to say...wait for it...+1.

I was rather critical of KnC and Bitcoinorama at the beginning, but not so much now. But, please keep a watchful eye on them, acting in the most professional manner as possible, while I go and stick it up BFL's ass.  

Oh, and BTW, did I read somewhere that some outfit has chips tied up in custom.

Yes I did notice the love story between you and BFL, Josh must miss you so much when you do not post something about them hahahahahha

You make my dick so hard when you whisper Josh in my ear. 

[miter_myles]

I'm no shill. I've been totally honest about any affiliation.

I visited them in Sweden and asked Q's you guys wanted whilst considering my own purchase and a jolly to Stockholm.

I met other forum members there. They were there before I arrived bag in hand from the airport. I can provide evidence of flights from the UK to Sweden if you're that bothered.

I have studied an engineering discipline and would like to work in Bitcoin, maybe KnC, but I don't want to receive any payment unless they prove they can deliver for the exact reason I don't want to have any responsibly for your own decisions.

I can say KnC are real and exist as I have been there.

I cannot and will not influence your decision making. You are responsible for your own research and due diligence.

I only share my own research, of which a lot is clearly KnC based as they are work in progress for me and I now have a vested interest.

By that statement I could also be a shill for Visa, Mcard and all card issuers!?

I don't want to see companies fail, I'm just fed up of seeing people ripped off. I believe Hashfast are real, I believe Cointerra are real. I haven't behaved maliciously towards them, but there is a long way to go before they offer people a safe and secure purchase.

Have you ever seen me say anything, anything but positive comments towards Bitfury? I'm in awe of that guy and his distribution means except card.

As for the date I joined, you're looking for reasons to throw accusations. Look at my posting history. I spent a significant amount of time in other threads before KnC were even on my radar.

It's cool to be inquisitive or uncertain, but don't jump to conclusions. I've a specific checklist of what O look for before committing to a purchase and BTC has been abused as a pre-order payment method. Fact.

I only read half this post, and I'm sorry to say...wait for it...+1.

I was rather critical of KnC and Bitcoinorama at the beginning, but not so much now. But, please keep a watchful eye on them, acting in the most professional manner as possible, while I go and stick it up BFL's ass.  

Oh, and BTW, did I read somewhere that some outfit has chips tied up in custom.

Yes I did notice the love story between you and BFL, Josh must miss you so much when you do not post something about them hahahahahha

You make my dick so hard when you whisper Josh in my ear. 

Standard Josh or Josh with clown nose??

[k9quaint]

Could someone list for me the milestones and performance targets that KNC has missed?
I seem to have misplaced my "list".

[Minor Miner]

The only "milestone" that I know they have missed is the one kano is pointing out.   This is not about whether they are legit or not (time will tell us that), it is about how on MANY hardware forums, we constantly hear from the actual owners, then people ask tough questions, then incredibly passionate "independent" parties start posting like mad AND THEN the founders seem to disappear.   Go read through a few of the threads, you will see the pattern.   Yifu was NEVER too busy to answer the 200 tickets that had piled up (we all know now that he just does not give a shit).   No one is too busy during the 90 days after tape out before they get their chips to update 10 minutes a week.    Friedcat is proof of this.

[Bitcoinorama]

The only "milestone" that I know they have missed is the one kano is pointing out.   This is not about whether they are legit or not (time will tell us that), it is about how on MANY hardware forums, we constantly hear from the actual owners, then people ask tough questions, then incredibly passionate "independent" parties start posting like mad AND THEN the founders seem to disappear.   Go read through a few of the threads, you will see the pattern.   Yifu was NEVER too busy to answer the 200 tickets that had piled up (we all know now that he just does not give a shit).   No one is too busy during the 90 days after tape out before they get their chips to update 10 minutes a week.    Friedcat is proof of this.

True, but Friedcat had the luxury of development time on his side, there's not much that can be said with companies that aim to manufacture essentially prototypes from the moment they first lay their hands on their chips. This 28nm lot are really racing flat out to produce anything, unnervingly a few want you to risk your funds on their development promises. No thanks.

[Carlton Banks]

You only have to hit F5 key on the Custom Hardware page to know that there is an abundance of posts in the sub-forum, and not really any new information, mostly people speculating and/or complaining about various things that are changing slowly, until...... some genuinely novel/useful piece of information comes along, then the churn goes into overdrive as the real miners and the shills re-aling themselves around the latest changing of the landscape. It's the biggest cess-pool on the whole of bitcointalk, at that's really saying something. The desperation and poor behaviour, from shills and miners alike, stinks like a corpse. I am all too guilty of this.

[ASICMining]

To Bitcoinorama's defense, he has been forthright and helpful to this forum, and this is no way to treat a person who you have merely speculative accusations about due to him seeming to be "too helpful." It's always easy to cast the first stone, but, with due diligence you would see the same things he has seen.

Rather than calling him a shill, why don't you go validate or de-validate his claims before you start calling him out. You are attempting to discredit him for being "Helpful" and "promoting" something he has a vested interest in from a consumer level. So what if he is excited about KNC? That does not make him anything but an eager and excited customer of theirs.

On the opposing end, I don't agree with all of his posts and reviews of companies. He has called some into question and made bold statements without having done the same diligence he's done on KNC. For example his posts thrashing Cloudhashing, which is one of KNC's largest customers, is a bit ironic, but he is certainly attempting to bring the level of 'awareness' to a higher level here and that is admirable.

Keep up the good work Bitcoinorama.

[MrHempstock]

Now "Shill" is tied for "FUD" as the most misused word on these boards.

[Minor Miner]

Now "Shill" is tied for "FUD" as the most misused word on these boards.

perfect example of useless pollution on boards with stupid pictures.  Grow up.   

[Loredo]

One of the very few places that still define the word shill is Nevada Gaming Commission Control Board:

Card game shill: An employee engaged and financed by the licensee as a player for the purpose of starting and/or maintaining a sufficient number of players in a card game.

Interesting.  I just related the other night (Sunday) while some posters were basically "shooting the shit" in some thread or other how, thanks to an associates' relative, I had a dinner companion one night in Vegas who was a professional blackjack shill, who exactly fit that definition.

So, while whenever I read the word "shill," I'm doomed to think back to a skinny blonde in a black dress.  On the other hand, I love the term "sock puppet".  I guess it, really, means someone who is using multiple posting identities.  But I define it as anyone who hides his true allegiance and/or vested agenda.  Whether that's right or wrong.

Besides, when I think of that word, I think of Muppet characters.  And that makes me think of grand kids, and that's a lot healthier, all in all, than blondes in black dresses.

Under these definitions, I don't consider Bc'orama either a shill or a sock puppet.  If we need to slam him with a derogatory term at all, I'd pick simply "fan boy."

[augustocroppo]

Keep up the good work Bitcoinorama.

Excuse me, but who are you? Another sock puppet?

 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=127751

Summary - ASICMining
Name: ASICMining
Posts: 16
Activity: 15
Position: Member
Date Registered: June 08, 2013, 03:04:01 PM
Last Active: Today at 11:12:01 PM

[CoinHoarder]

People don't seem to realize that one word can have many definitions.

There is no right or wrong way to use the word shill (or any other word for that matter) as long as it's in the dictionary.  

[augustocroppo]

http://idesigniphone.net/wallpapers/03803.jpg

Beautiful woman, but this have nothing to do with the present discussion.

You see, you show that you cannot cope with serious discussions. You fail to keep on track. At every opportunity you derail the topic where you participate.

This remind me of the old forum participant, Rarity, which got banned months ago.

Like you, Rarity could not stop to twist the discussions which she participated, no matter what reasonable argument was put against her. It became unbearable at certain point, that she had to be banned to a certain order be restored in the forum.

You are coming near at that point, I am really sure.

It happened before with Rarity and others alike, it will happen with you, soon or later.