BFL was a SCAM from the beginning -EXT HDD case being sold as a miner in 2011.

[erk]

The Bitforce Single was not in a hard drive case, it has a case very similar to what the Jalapeno uses. It's is also an FPGA miner not an ASIC.

Here is a video of one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neHHrC3qgIE

Your telling me that wasn't a Hard Drive case when BFL started? If you need a higher resolution of the site, ill be happy to upload it...

Full shot of that section.


Full shot of the site:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Hl2LpCbTs1A/UhSSTTbreBI/AAAAAAAAATQ/Czet6Cy0AoY/w1358-h849-no/BFL+began+as+a+scam+Proff.png

If you go by pictures, the Jalapeno was supposed to be ~1/2 the height it is currently and the LS/Singles were supposed to use what is now the Jalapeno case.  Plans change dude, just cause concept = something that looks like an EXT-HDD and turns out different does not equal scam.

Once again, talk about the products that actually shipped, not the  "were supposed to be" because you saw a little photo on a shopping cart page. There are plenty of reviews and real photos of what was shipped. The Bitforce Single was not a Jalapeno, it was an FPGA miner, it was not shipped in a hard drive case, it was shipped in an appropriate cube shaped black case similar to, but not identical to, what we now call a Jalapeno 5GH/s ASIC miner.

[k9quaint]

The Bitforce Single was not in a hard drive case, it has a case very similar to what the Jalapeno uses. It's is also an FPGA miner not an ASIC.

Here is a video of one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neHHrC3qgIE

Your telling me that wasn't a Hard Drive case when BFL started? If you need a higher resolution of the site, ill be happy to upload it...

Full shot of that section.


Full shot of the site:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Hl2LpCbTs1A/UhSSTTbreBI/AAAAAAAAATQ/Czet6Cy0AoY/w1358-h849-no/BFL+began+as+a+scam+Proff.png

If you go by pictures, the Jalapeno was supposed to be ~1/2 the height it is currently and the LS/Singles were supposed to use what is now the Jalapeno case.  Plans change dude, just cause concept = something that looks like an EXT-HDD and turns out different does not equal scam.

Once again, talk about the products that actually shipped, not the  "were supposed to be" because you saw a little photo on a shopping cart page. There are plenty of reviews and real photos of what was shipped. The Bitforce Single was not a Jalapeno, it was an FPGA miner, it was not shipped in a hard drive case, it was shipped in an appropriate cube shaped black case similar to, but not identical to, what we now call a Jalapeno 5GH/s ASIC miner.

People know this. The person posting the pictures knows this. His point was this: what BFL sells you does not resemble what you will actually receive. It's form factor will be different. It's power to generate bitcoins will be diminished because it is already 4 months late (feb 2014 intead of nov 2013). It will cost more to run because BFL's power estimates have been wildly optimistic to date.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

This is interesting enough no wonder more rage
http://www.coindesk.com/butterfly-labs-monarch-miner-announcement-angers-existing-customers/

Code:

Further to the “all sales are final” position, Butterfly Labs is no longer accepting PayPal as a method of payment;
instead, only taking bitcoin or bank transfers as payment. Both of these are irreversible payment methods.

RUN AWAY... do not buy from them... Danger Will Robinson DANGER!

Boycott BFL... let us rid the community of these sorts of companies.

[bcp19]

Re: huge wall of text

tl;dr

I was just pointing out that people that have only been around for a few months don't understand the full picture, and haven't given themselves ample enough time to get screwed by BFL- that's all.

I quite well understand, you ASSUME short time poster = clueless noob.  I'm sure you already know what happens when you ASSUME.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I was a Scam from the beginning, and smart one for Josh.

So, dumb-ass, are all those people mining with Jalapenos/Little Singles/whatever lying?  Is the network hash rate going up because of these non-existent scam miners?

So what if it took longer than expected?  They're shipping now, and people are getting their products and mining with them.  Yes, they've been less than transparent, but is there any wonder?  The amount of bickering, complaining, trolling and lies being directed to BFL is shocking.   

The amount of email they must get from whiners who email every hour on the hour because they've had to wait, who then complain because they don't get a reply for 2 weeks.  Here's an idea, brainiacs, don't email every nanosecond, then they won't have 40,000 emails an hour to wade through.

Is that how you treat people in real life when you encounter them for the first time?

So, dump ass, notice that the sidewalk is wide enough for both of us?

So, dump ass, noticed you just left church. Did you talk to God today?

So, dump ass, noticed you talking to them guys that are not your color. Learn any new words while in their court?

With the exception of Josh (maybe Zhou), I've yet to resort to jumping into a thread to solely name call, then leave. Half the shit I say about Josh is just banter, while the other half I mean, leaving it up to the reading to figure out which half applies.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I was a Scam from the beginning, and smart one for Josh.

So, dumb-ass, are all those people mining with Jalapenos/Little Singles/whatever lying?  Is the network hash rate going up because of these non-existent scam miners?

So what if it took longer than expected?  They're shipping now, and people are getting their products and mining with them.  Yes, they've been less than transparent, but is there any wonder?  The amount of bickering, complaining, trolling and lies being directed to BFL is shocking.   

The amount of email they must get from whiners who email every hour on the hour because they've had to wait, who then complain because they don't get a reply for 2 weeks.  Here's an idea, brainiacs, don't email every nanosecond, then they won't have 40,000 emails an hour to wade through.

There are 2 type of Scams.

First being a Go in Quick:
    You go  in  and clean up in a few months and disappear (Usually after a few complaints or chargebacks.)

Second being a Show and Tell:
    You go in hard. Once you get a cash flow develop afew units around 10-15% of all the order you have
      (this is done by buying units from other suppliers and adding your brand to it).
    Spreed those units as much as you can.
    Send some unites to review sites/testers/known people
    Do marketing
   
    *Then buyer's will come to you thinking your a trustworthy company and don't mine giving you $500-$25,000 and be waiting for a half to a year before getting a product.

    * Keep doing the process Over and Over until it get kill.


Need Proof?
BFL just "release" a new product line the "The Monarch".

How can a company release a new product line when is still has backlog of 70%-85% of all previous orders?


More Proof?
They stop accepting PayPal as a payment method, the only option is  Bitcoin and Bank Transfer's now.


Don't be naïve...

Further Proof!

Sonny Vleisides used the same exact approach to scam Laissez Faire City investors, the elderly with his lottery scheme, and his sportsbook schemes.

Luckily, Sonny's trying to be on a good track now.

[Xian01]

I quite well understand, you ASSUME short time poster = clueless noob.  I'm sure you already know what happens when you ASSUME.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2796548#msg2796548

"I myself didn't order until June of this year, and unlike the majority of people I see whining, I am content to wait as I know they are in production and I will get what I paid for."

 It goes without saying that we can safely assume you did not research your purchase ahead of time on these forums.
 
 Understand that many of us have been following the sordid tale of Butterfly Labs much longer than you have. It would serve you well to research the anecdotes on these forums before disparaging the wisdom here.

[bcp19]

I quite well understand, you ASSUME short time poster = clueless noob.  I'm sure you already know what happens when you ASSUME.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2796548#msg2796548

"I myself didn't order until June of this year, and unlike the majority of people I see whining, I am content to wait as I know they are in production and I will get what I paid for."

 It goes without saying that we can safely assume you did not research your purchase ahead of time on these forums.
 
 Understand that many of us have been following the sordid tale of Butterfly Labs much longer than you have. It would serve you well to research the anecdotes on these forums before disparaging the wisdom here.

I quite thoroughly did my research, thank you.  I bought 1... yes, OH EN EE, one Jalapeno and I made that purchase after a lot of thought and research.  *I* did not make a purchase thinking I was getting rich, *I* did not make a purchase expecting to get it in 2 months when they had not even started shipping in earnest.  *I* knew up front I was buying a coffee-mug warmer and that it was going to be more novelty than money-maker.  *I* even knew going into my purchase that there was likely to be close to 5 or 6 PETAHASH of product ordered ahead of me.  Hence why I used my paypal account to make a purchase of just over $300 and didn't touch my hard-earned BTC.

The difference here is that between you and I, I have probably lived on this earth 2-3 times as long as you have.  I can remember the service stations having Gas Wars and the price of gasoline dropping to $.17.  I remember watching man taking the first step onto the moon... LIVE.  I have spent my time barely able to feed and clothe myself so that my children could have what I denied myself.

I quite well understand market research and I predicted today back in May.  I knew then that Difficulty was headed WELL north of 100million, it was just a matter of time.  If BFL had had a better supply chain, that day would have already passed.

So spare me your purile nonsense.  You have no clue as to what you speak.

[SLok]

I love all these yahoos that are defending BFL, notice how they've been around for less than 4 months.. some of them only 2. They have yet to be scammed by BFL, so just let them blow their hot air.

Make sure to report back to us on the success of your BFL orders and all those BTCs you made... 

Of course this does not go for all the anti-BFL tools popping up in the last months. Still, funny to see most of them not being able to bring anything other than what they already brought.
Name:    CrashX
Date Registered:    July 30, 2013, 03:05:47 AM
Name:    scambutterflylabs
Date Registered:    June 01, 2013, 04:41:39 AM
Name:    millsdmb
Date Registered:    July 28, 2013, 04:47:49 AM
etcetera..
a bunch of shill shill shill shouters, a repetitive clown posting loads of random and dead links, some fools even cheering the dead links without actually checking them, idiot Bicknellski that couldn't see from an inch away at the Big Mining Picture that his luckily failed asic joke would not make the money back for the paper box it would come in. Boycott BFL! boycott BFL!, but keep showing your face in every BFL thread, "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" Really, rockyracoon or thelostdutchman with only scams frauds thefts and lies on his menu that even played a prostitute online? The matriarchal Racoon can be really proud on you. lol, role on folks 
 

[Xian01]

...his luckily failed asic joke would not make the money back for the paper box it would come in

 ... in the same way the Monarchs are dead-on-arrival, and won't ROI at all if history is an indicator of Butterfly Labs' dependability ?

 Again, low-blow and completely out-of-line attack as the problems with Avalon are beyond the control off Bicknellski.

 IMO Bick' should be applauded for his transparently proactive way of dealing with his customers/investors, and issuing refunds expeditiously when requested.

[E]

I quite well understand, you ASSUME short time poster = clueless noob.  I'm sure you already know what happens when you ASSUME.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2796548#msg2796548

"I myself didn't order until June of this year, and unlike the majority of people I see whining, I am content to wait as I know they are in production and I will get what I paid for."

 It goes without saying that we can safely assume you did not research your purchase ahead of time on these forums.
 
 Understand that many of us have been following the sordid tale of Butterfly Labs much longer than you have. It would serve you well to research the anecdotes on these forums before disparaging the wisdom here.

I quite well understand market research and I predicted today back in May.  I knew then that Difficulty was headed WELL north of 100million, it was just a matter of time.  If BFL had had a better supply chain, that day would have already passed.

So spare me your purile nonsense.  You have no clue as to what you speak.

BCP19, nice to see you over here... (my mersenneforum join date was 2002; I've seen you around )

It's great that you evaluated the situation and decided to get into the ASIC mining arena with eyes open. It's true that it isn't appropriate for xian01 to judge your due diligence based on either your post history or your BFL purchase decision.

BUT, given that by June of this year (probably by february of this year) it was clear that Jalepeño orders would never recover their initial investment and would be at an operating loss by late 2013, AND given that the vast, vast majority of newish posters with recent BFL orders have demonstrated ignorance of that fact, xian01's inference was fairly rational absent additional information. You had of course provided that information in an earlier post, but I assume he missed that.

And of course xian01's comments are not directed at you as individual, but at you as a representative of a group of people he thinks got scammed, and should be interpreted that way.

Anyway, I know it never works to step into an exchange like this but I recognized your username and was in a mood to pipe up.

[Xian01]

The difference here is that between you and I, I have probably lived on this earth 2-3 times as long as you have.  I can remember the service stations having Gas Wars and the price of gasoline dropping to $.17.  I remember watching man taking the first step onto the moon... LIVE.  I have spent my time barely able to feed and clothe myself so that my children could have what I denied myself
...
So spare me your purile nonsense.  You have no clue as to what you speak.

 What was that you were saying about making assumptions ?

 *hugs*

[k9quaint]

I love all these yahoos that are defending BFL, notice how they've been around for less than 4 months.. some of them only 2. They have yet to be scammed by BFL, so just let them blow their hot air.

Make sure to report back to us on the success of your BFL orders and all those BTCs you made... 

Of course this does not go for all the anti-BFL tools popping up in the last months. Still, funny to see most of them not being able to bring anything other than what they already brought.
Name:    CrashX
Date Registered:    July 30, 2013, 03:05:47 AM
Name:    scambutterflylabs
Date Registered:    June 01, 2013, 04:41:39 AM
Name:    millsdmb
Date Registered:    July 28, 2013, 04:47:49 AM
etcetera..
a bunch of shill shill shill shouters, a repetitive clown posting loads of random and dead links, some fools even cheering the dead links without actually checking them, idiot Bicknellski that couldn't see from an inch away at the Big Mining Picture that his luckily failed asic joke would not make the money back for the paper box it would come in. Boycott BFL! boycott BFL!, but keep showing your face in every BFL thread, "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" Really, rockyracoon or thelostdutchman with only scams frauds thefts and lies on his menu that even played a prostitute online? The matriarchal Racoon can be really proud on you. lol, role on folks 

I hate to burst your bubble with actual data, but
a) The polls are vastly in favor of BFL being a scam and using underhanded tactics. Several hundred against BFL in fact.
b) Also, shills would work for BFL, not against them. You need a different noun for people who's opinions are negative towards BFL
c) the number of anti-BFL posts has increased dramatically here, especially the "my complaints were deleted from the BFL forums so I had to come here" type. I believe we can directly attribute that to you.

Perhaps we wouldn't have so many new accounts here if you would censor fewer threads on BFL forums. Perhaps you have only yourself to blame. 

[bcp19]

I quite well understand, you ASSUME short time poster = clueless noob.  I'm sure you already know what happens when you ASSUME.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2796548#msg2796548

"I myself didn't order until June of this year, and unlike the majority of people I see whining, I am content to wait as I know they are in production and I will get what I paid for."

 It goes without saying that we can safely assume you did not research your purchase ahead of time on these forums.
 
 Understand that many of us have been following the sordid tale of Butterfly Labs much longer than you have. It would serve you well to research the anecdotes on these forums before disparaging the wisdom here.

I quite well understand market research and I predicted today back in May.  I knew then that Difficulty was headed WELL north of 100million, it was just a matter of time.  If BFL had had a better supply chain, that day would have already passed.

So spare me your purile nonsense.  You have no clue as to what you speak.

BCP19, nice to see you over here... (my mersenneforum join date was 2002; I've seen you around )

It's great that you evaluated the situation and decided to get into the ASIC mining arena with eyes open. It's true that it isn't appropriate for xian01 to judge your due diligence based on either your post history or your BFL purchase decision.

BUT, given that by June of this year (probably by february of this year) it was clear that Jalepeño orders would never recover their initial investment and would be at an operating loss by late 2013, AND given that the vast, vast majority of newish posters with recent BFL orders have demonstrated ignorance of that fact, xian01's inference was fairly rational absent additional information. You had of course provided that information in an earlier post, but I assume he missed that.

And of course xian01's comments are not directed at you as individual, but at you as a representative of a group of people he thinks got scammed, and should be interpreted that way.

Anyway, I know it never works to step into an exchange like this but I recognized your username and was in a mood to pipe up.

Oh crap!  You found me...

Seriously though, it's nice to run across someone from Mersenne.  Just a fyi, I prefer bcp19... otherwise it feels like you are shouting at me

I do appreciate your comments though, your insight into both sides of this hit the nail on the head.  The difference is that I knew how he was lumping me while he was assuming I was a clueless shill spouting nonsense I had no clue about.

Cheers.

[mrb]

CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

NOT FAKE: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117/http://butterflylabs.com/products/

Also, from the FAQ page from the same date: http://web.archive.org/web/20110820030402/http://butterflylabs.com/faq/

1. Are your algorythms, PCB’s or other products available for purchase separately?

Yes, our intellectual property is available for licensing to other chip manufacturers.  In most cases we can also make our individual components available to you depending on your needs.

So, what stops one of the owners of having another company on the dise purchasing produces from themselves--BFL?

I did it with my Drywall company when I ordered a million square fee of drywall from one of my companies and sold the drywall to main company.

Sonny, Josh, Jeff, Joe, et al. could easily have another company set up that we don't know about that is legally purchasing miners to mine bitcoins and we wouldn't be the wiser sans the increase of the hash rate/difficulty. If they are not doing it, then they truly are motherfuckin' idiots. Hell, the entity doesn't even have to be registered as a business just like most miners and pool owners are not.

[bcp19]

CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

NOT FAKE: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117/http://butterflylabs.com/products/

True, the picture is linked at:  http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117im_/http://butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/single-enclosure.png

so the picture did originally come from BFL

[erk]

CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

NOT FAKE: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117/http://butterflylabs.com/products/

True, the picture is linked at:  http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117im_/http://butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/single-enclosure.png

so the picture did originally come from BFL

The picture is irrelevant, I could easily build a working miner in an external HD case, if it is one as you cant tell the size, HD case has USB and power sockets already. The point is that BFL never shipped that case, the selected a better looking cube case, the entire thread is BS based on something that never shipped, there would have been nothing wrong with using a hard drive style case except it looks boring. I see no point to this thread whatsoever except trolling FUD. It doesn't even belong in the scam section unless that's the motive of the OP.

If you check the web archive a few weeks later, that picture is gone, and a pre-order link added so you can actually place an order.

[Xian01]

the entire thread is BS based on something that never shipped, there would have been nothing wrong with using a hard drive style case except it looks boring

 With respect, after all was said and done, we learned that the original form-factor of a USB hard drive was nowhere near the final delivery form-factor, nor would it be possible to dissipate the heat generated in such a chassis.

 Extrapolate this with the original 1.5TH/s Minirig being broken up into three separate components, and we begin to get a clearer picture of what is in store for customers.

[erk]

the entire thread is BS based on something that never shipped, there would have been nothing wrong with using a hard drive style case except it looks boring

 With respect, after all was said and done, we learned that the original form-factor of a USB hard drive was nowhere near the final delivery form-factor, nor would it be possible to dissipate the heat generated in such a chassis.

 Extrapolate this with the original 1.5TH/s Minirig being broken up into three separate components, and we begin to get a clearer picture of what is in store for customers.

You are mixing up the FPGA and ASIC product lines.

If you want a real issue with the ASIC spec not the FPGA which this thread is about, then look at the Jalapeno 4.5GH/s spec from last year. The device was designed to run off USB power which only does 2.5watts typically. BFL were quoting for their chips at the time, 1watt per GH/s go figure!