[Poll] Burnins BitFury miner

[RoadStress]

It's not very economical to make an 8-chip board because of the fixed cost of the parts.

Even with identical board and 8 chips it will be 520 EUR (700 - 180). Say 600 with shipping and accesories. Which is 0.2 BTC/GH. If burnin overclocks the chip to 5 GH, it becomes 0.16 BTC/GH.

What's your point? You find that economical?

[xstr8guy]

It's not very economical to make an 8-chip board because of the fixed cost of the parts.

Even with identical board and 8 chips it will be 520 EUR (700 - 180). Say 600 with shipping and accesories. Which is 0.2 BTC/GH. If burnin overclocks the chip to 5 GH, it becomes 0.16 BTC/GH.

What's your point? You find that economical?

I do.  It's the going market rate for delivering units.  It's the same as MBP/BFSB's pricing.  If you can't justify or afford this price at this point in time, you're just not going to be mining for BTC.  It's just a fact.

[baloo_kiev]

Dont forget to add VAT unless your exempt.  Then go and have a look at the latest difficulty chart.  Then think about will happen once all those KNC and Bitfury products ship in a few weeks.

I'm outside EU, and I don't think I'll have to pay VAT. I'm watching the difficulty chart. And I know where one can sell 1GH for 0.5350.385 BTC now . KNC haven't even shown a prototype, and it's already middle of September (http://i.imgflip.com/2r1zb.jpg). Difficulty growth is limited by BTC price.

[creativex]

Bitfury themselves are selling completed kits at close to .15/Gh. Why would you pay more to add in two additional points of failure? This product was marginally attractive at a price point below what can be obtained by ordering direct from bitfury. At a price premium to bitfury it shouldn't leave the drawing board.

[baloo_kiev]

Bitfury themselves are selling completed kits at close to .15/Gh. Why would you pay more to add in two additional points of failure? This product was marginally attractive at a price point below what can be obtained by ordering direct from bitfury. At a price premium to bitfury it shouldn't leave the drawing board.

I'd actually rather bet on burnin than Bitfury themselves as he has shown excellent performance (the best known, i guess?) with Avalon chips plus fast assembly and support. Delay between him and Bitfury is 1-2 days for shipping of the chips.

[RoadStress]

Bitfury themselves are selling completed kits at close to .15/Gh. Why would you pay more to add in two additional points of failure? This product was marginally attractive at a price point below what can be obtained by ordering direct from bitfury. At a price premium to bitfury it shouldn't leave the drawing board.

I'd actually rather bet on burnin than Bitfury themselves as he has shown excellent performance (the best known, i guess?) with Avalon chips plus fast assembly and support. Delay between him and Bitfury is 1-2 days for shipping of the chips.

I would bet on burnin too, just not at this price.

[creativex]

I like burnin and find him to be trustworthy in addition to being a talented engineer. I do not like his choice of apparently exclusive vendors. The problem is not the product, the problem is the price and the reputation of the vendor he's chosen to force everyone to deal with.

[rebelrat]

After forfeiting 30% on the trade-in, now we are expected to add 40% more for a middle-man.
Unless you receive the board at the beginning of October there is no ROI at all, thanks, but no thanks.
This price is ridiculous.

[wallydz]

I traded in for 70 % even if i was bit dispointed but burning can you at least provide assembly of bitfury chips for your confirmed customers? that paid and not asked for refund?

[sikman]

This was my first chance to get into the ASIC game where I could order and get something within a few weeks, I was happy to pay €470-500 each and had gathered $5000 between myself and a friend but when I saw €699 you lost me completely, what a shame. At this rate I will stick with my 14GH GPU rigs I got going with scrypt based coins

[tarmi]

ridiculous price.

I will probably ask for a refund.
 

[eraziel]

Burnin, please address the issue.

I and many others have requested a price structure breakdown for the BitBurner Fury boards due to the vast difference (470 to 700) between the projected price and price offered now.
We know that the Bitfury chips that go on the board cost 360 eur (given that you didn't get any additional discount).
That means that your estimation of 110 eur for development & your profit margin is now all the way up to 340 eur.
That is roughly three times the originally anticipated amount.
You stated in another thread that board development/production expenses have increased.
Does that mean trippled?

You said that your margin has remained reasonable.
What about your distributor's margin?
The notion around the forum is that the priced offered for the BitBurner Fury by CryptX is based not on the development/production costs, but rather on the prices of competitors' products.
Do you have anything to say about that. Do you have any say in the price that YOUR product is being offered at (MSRP)?
I am really not in the business of feeding resellers.

Do you have a legally binding agreement with CryptX that his organisation is the exclusive distributor for your boards?

If you were overwhelmed by all the customer care/shipping work you could have just required a minimum size order (e.g. 30k eur worth of equipment or more) and then let group buy organizers do their thing.
That's not anything new.

I feel very frustrated with the way things went and this is not in anyone's interest.

[shapemaker]

I and many others have requested a price structure breakdown for the BitBurner Fury boards due to the vast difference (470 to 700) between the projected price and price offered now.
We know that the Bitfury chips that go on the board cost 360 eur (given that you didn't get any additional discount).
That means that your estimation of 110 eur for development & your profit margin is now all the way up to 340 eur.
That is roughly three times the originally anticipated amount.
You stated in another thread that board development/production expenses have increased.
Does that mean trippled?

I don't think he meant such a drastic increase. I guess an increase of a few tens of euros would be in the ballpark.

You said that your margin has remained reasonable.
What about your distributor's margin?
[...]
I am really not in the business of feeding resellers.

I'm positive this is all down to the distributor's greed. I've asked many questions about this on the forums as well, but cryptx has declined to answer publicly. He however answered my email last night, but the answers were typical boilerplate, so no point in repeating that here.

I feel very frustrated with the way things went and this is not in anyone's interest.

Word. We need to let the distributor know that price gouging won't work. It's simple, we refuse to take all the risk with rising difficulty, and we refuse to line the pockets of middle men.

[iikun]

I'm positive this is all down to the distributor's greed. I've asked many questions about this on the forums as well, but cryptx has declined to answer publicly. He however answered my email last night, but the answers were typical boilerplate, so no point in repeating that here.

+1

With the 24hr window closing in the next 30mins its incredibly frustrating that cryptx is refusing to answer any questions.  I have an extremely low order number, which would make ordering more attractive were it not the total lack of communication. If cryptx is like this now, imagine the lack of response after orders have been placed.

[shapemaker]

I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up.. The units will be priced at what the market will pay as usual.  if those numbers above are correct is it not the cheapest?.. if there is a cheaper option why not vote with wallet and choose that one?, perhaps you'll see reduction on reseller margin here to compete ..

"Price is what the market will bear" is fine in _normal_ market. This however is far from normal, and there are large risks in investing. See, I used the word invest, since this is very akin to investing, with risks. However currently all indicators point to hashrate rising exponentially for quite some time, so investing in mining hardware is _risky_. Therefore buying mining gear is a risky proposition and the prices should reflect that, and the sellers shouldn't try to offload all the risk on the investors (miners).

The problem recently has been that people have bought overpriced mining gear stupidly and without adequate analysis. That has led the sellers to believe they can price their gear near or even over the ROI limit. Well, that time is over now. You do a disservice when you try to brush this issue aside with sweeping remarks like that.

also about the genesis block calculation, really by now it must be known by even first time miners.. it is not enough to enter hashrate and copy paste 83% diff increase for 12months to try and show accurate forecast

Please, by all means, share your superior method of predicting how the hashrate will behave in the coming year.

Hint: it won't decrease nor stay the same. The only way is up, but by how much and how quickly is the question.

[Andrey]

I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up.. The units will be priced at what the market will pay as usual.  if those numbers above are correct is it not the cheapest?.. if there is a cheaper option why not vote with wallet and choose that one?, perhaps you'll see reduction on reseller margin here to compete .. also about the genesis block calculation, really by now it must be known by even first time miners.. it is not enough to enter hashrate and copy paste 83% diff increase for 12months to try and show accurate forecast

Speaking about 83% diff, I wonder where is that taken from? History of increases shows much more then that. And profitability is non existent if you put the numbers which match the history.

I think we are entering the few monthes period of frustration for miners who will not get ROI, followed by price drops on ASICs.

[shapemaker]

I'm positive this is all down to the distributor's greed. I've asked many questions about this on the forums as well, but cryptx has declined to answer publicly. He however answered my email last night, but the answers were typical boilerplate, so no point in repeating that here.

+1

With the 24hr window closing in the next 30mins its incredibly frustrating that cryptx is refusing to answer any questions.  I have an extremely low order number, which would make ordering more attractive were it not the total lack of communication. If cryptx is like this now, imagine the lack of response after orders have been placed.

Being quiet is all intentional. He/they are watching how many people bite the bullet and order anyway. This does indeed paint a very worrying picture of the kind of person(s) we're dealing with here.

[eraziel]

I think the key question in my post is whether or not there is an legally binding agreement about CryptX being the exclusive distributor of Burnin products.

If the answer is no then we can definitely work something out.
If, however, the answer is yes, that only means that I'll never own a BitBurner Fury

[iikun]

I'm positive this is all down to the distributor's greed. I've asked many questions about this on the forums as well, but cryptx has declined to answer publicly. He however answered my email last night, but the answers were typical boilerplate, so no point in repeating that here.

+1

With the 24hr window closing in the next 30mins its incredibly frustrating that cryptx is refusing to answer any questions.  I have an extremely low order number, which would make ordering more attractive were it not the total lack of communication. If cryptx is like this now, imagine the lack of response after orders have been placed.

Being quiet is all intentional. He/they are watching how many people bite the bullet and order anyway. This does indeed paint a very worrying picture of the kind of person(s) we're dealing with here.

I fear you are right. However, once I drop to the back of the queue that is even less incentive to buy. I definitely wouldn't buy if I lost my spot, even with a drop in price.

[eraziel]

What makes me most sad in this whole thing is that most probably the reseller's margin is MUCH LARGER than the developer/producer's.
HOW FUKING DISGUSTING IS THAT.
AND IF SO WHY DID BURNIN ALLOW FOR IT.
I really hope there's no exclusivity agreement in place and other distributor(s)/group buyers can step in.