[Poll] Burnins BitFury miner

[nemercry]

well I know that burnin is really busy and working hard, but this project started as DIY which is really great for all miners, we had faith and support but now it is heading to the wrong way with cryptx, allot of members are rising their concerns about this and we would like to hear good answer from burnin about that, he has been silent and didn't address this issue.

Funny how nobody mentions this, but haven't BitBurner miners supposed to be open-source? If they were open-sourced cryptx tyranny of 200-300+ EUR price rise would be impossible, everyone could buy raw PCBs from Burnin which could include handsome design fee and produce DIY miner. We don't even need open-sourced PCB, just the rest of the design and PCB supply from Burnin.

 

CryptX is supplying the chips - and has one of the first of the '20 September' batches of chips - which he says he already has in hand.  So any other source of boards someone would have to get hold of some chips (at what cost?  and when would they ship?  Does anyone have them in stock at a sensible price?)

And we really don't know how much profit either burnin or CryptX is making on this - we know that burnin said the component costs were higher than he had anticipated.  Am I disappointed that it's not 470 Euros?  Sure.  But like any other product, it is up to you and me to decide if it is worth it or not at the price offered.

I haven't seen either burnin or CryptX do anything wrong up to now, and really don't get what has some people so upset.

As far as the Avalon miners go, they were sold with no refund.  If burnin now offers a refund, you can't really complain that you don't like the terms.

And as for CryptX's own mine - you really think he should cancel plans for a mine because he agreed to distribute the Fury boards?  Besides, AIUI CryptX is supplying the chips for the Bitburner Fury boards he distributes, so every chip going into a board we buy is a chip not going into his mine.

As always, too much drama in this forum.  I just want my Bitburners to arrive (both XX and Fury)

roy

You are right. It is everyones own decision to stick with them or not. Hate did start because people have choosen the refund bitfury option due to its announced price at ~ 470€. People also did calculate that it would be possible that the product will be a little more expensive (~max 100€). As they choose to refund their chips and stick with the bitfury option, their decision was made. With cryptX announcing the price at 895€ incl. VAT, people got afraid that they are now facing a bigger loss than sticking with the original boards.

That was the main reason for the whole anger. Another point was that cryptX announced the product with 40Gh/s - 80Gh/s specs, which are totally nonsense and yeah groundbreaking bullshit.(reason: with that specs its just gambling like with two 'ones' on the flop going all in.)  They took the best scenario case for their pricing but right now are only able to deliver 64Gh/s.

I mean watch that yourself.
Maybe cryptX scenario: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/cfaff574e0

Your scenario: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/ae8f397a64

That is the best case for you, if you dont pay any electricity and use eligius as pool. You also need to deduct one week + 2 days shipping. Also did KNC Announce that they will do everything to deliver in end of september. If they really do so the hashrate will significantly jump really high, in a short time. CryptX is a business man and they did their calculations really well, if knc joins the market they dont even care.


In short:
All people who have choosen that path because it did look more shiny than the avalon path are now jumping through a way full of possible traps and spikes. But yeah, it is your decision.

[FlappySocks]

^^ This is a good summary.

But there is more.  To add insult to the injury already inflicted by Yifu, Burnin and CryptX have also now gone into hiding over the issues raised.  This has further raised anger, and added to the the speculation, that we are being ripped off.

[madmax_ger]

^^ This is a good summary.

But there is more.  To add insult to the injury already inflicted by Yifu, Burnin and CryptX have also now gone into hiding over the issues raised.  This has further raised anger, and added to the the speculation, that we are being ripped off.

this is business.
bfl is ripping off.

disclaimer: I did not order

[FlappySocks]

this is business.

That's right. But it wasn't. It was opensource DIY kit at sensible prices. Overnight something changed, and nobody is talking.

[Roy Badami]

Hate did start because people have choosen the refund bitfury option due to its announced price at ~ 470€.

I'm not sure it was ever announced at 470 Euro.  It was an estimated possible price of a future product that wasn't, at that point, even definitely going to be release.

But yes, I think people emotionally commited to the 470 Euro Bitfury board as being the magic money-earning board that would recoup their Avalon losses.

Word to the wise: there is no longer any such thing as a magic money earning board.

roy

[Roy Badami]

this is business.

That's right. But it wasn't. It was opensource DIY kit at sensible prices. Overnight something changed, and nobody is talking.

^^ This is a good summary.

But there is more.  To add insult to the injury already inflicted by Yifu, Burnin and CryptX have also now gone into hiding over the issues raised.  This has further raised anger, and added to the the speculation, that we are being ripped off.

It's long since not been a DIY project.   It was a full time 7-day-a-week job for burnin for far too long.  Hence why he was chosen not to spend the time on the forums and not deal with customers direct at all for his new product.

Also, for someone working full time on this, he deserves to earn a decent salary from his work.

roy

EDIT TO ADD: burnin went the reseller route because he didn't have the time to devote to the forums, so his absence is expected.  CryptX's absence is slightly more disappointing.  His customer service, over e-mail, has been top notch, but he's not exactly doing anything in the forums to engage with the community.

[creativex]

Cost of the chips went up...everybody understands that. The prices are listed right on bfsb for anyone to calculate. The difference in chip prices doesn't come close to explaining the difference between initially estimated prices for this project and current asks. It's disappointing because it's no longer a viable product and another point of failure has been added. You now have to trust, not only burnin(easy), but cryptx(not).

[Roy Badami]

And as for the speed....  I'm sure CryptX is just quoting the specs burnin has given to him.

Well, we all bought burnin's Bitburner boards, nominally 5.62 GH/s, but comfortably overclockable to 8.62 GH/s, and to 9 GH/s or more at a pinch.

We all know the specs of the Bitfury chips.... on paper the boards can do 40 GH/s.  Burnin has said he's aiming to get 5 GH/s per chip - which would give us 80 GH/s per board.... but who knows what the overclocking capabilities of this chip is - burnin is driving it faster than anyone else ever has, so no one knows what the capabilities are.

I'm happy to place my order for a couple of boards based on my belief that burnin will produce a well designed product that will push the chips to their limit.  But yes, it's a gamble.

I don't see how it's CryptX's fault that burnin is being honest rather than pulling a figure out of the air like most of the other vendors do and quoting performance figures for products that havan't even been built yet.  I don't see how burnin can win here - whatever he does there will be people in these forums that will rip him to pieces.  I quite understand why he doenst want to deal with the forums and would rather leave them to soeone else.

roy

[creativex]

I quite understand why he doenst want to deal with the forums and would rather leave them to soeone else.

More than single someone else would have been far better. No pricing competition + greedy untrustworthy vendor = stillborn product.

[Roy Badami]

I quite understand why he doenst want to deal with the forums and would rather leave them to soeone else.

More than single someone else would have been far better. No pricing competition + greedy untrustworthy vendor = stillborn product.

Unless you know what CryptX is paying burnin for the boards (and how much he is paying for the chips) you (or I) have no idea whether he is greedy or not.

And it's too early to tell whether he's trustworthy or not.  As I said, I've not seen anything he's done so far that has caused me concern.  (EDIT: Sure I'm disappointed with the price, but I have no idea whether that's due to CryptX being greedy, burnin being greedy, the Bitfury chips being more expensive than expected, the boards being more compciated than expected, all of the above, or none of the above.  I prefer not to speculate without information.)

Anyway, time will tell.  There's nothing more I can add here.

EDIT TO ADD: Jumping to conclusions and assuming the worst is par for the course in these forums.  It shoudln't be, but it is.  I understand that burnin would rather spend his time developing boards than reading the forum, but it should be CryptX's job to read the forums and respond to concerns, accusations, criticisms, etc.  CryptX is really not doing a good job of promoting the product he's supposed to be reselling.

[shapemaker]

I don't see how burnin can win here - whatever he does there will be people in these forums that will rip him to pieces.  I quite understand why he doenst want to deal with the forums and would rather leave them to soeone else.

I don't have an issue with burnin. I doubt he's any happier than us how cryptx makes a stinking mess of the good name and image of his designs. My issues all lie squarely with cryptx, who are greedy price gougers. Their margins probably are way more than what burnin gets, and that's typical of profiteering middle men who actually bring no added value to the table.

[creativex]

And it's too early to tell whether he's trustworthy or not.  As I said, I've not seen anything he's done so far that has caused me concern.

Fair enough. I deal in crypto securities daily and wouldn't trust cryptx with a bitcent, but that's for everyone else to decide for themselves.

[shapemaker]

Unless you know what CryptX is paying burnin for the boards (and how much he is paying for the chips) you (or I) have no idea whether he is greedy or not.

Burnin's earlier estimate of 470 eur per board can't be that far off the mark. He's an electronics designer by trade, and I am quite sure he can make accurate estimates.

Sure I'm disappointed with the price, but I have no idea whether that's due to CryptX being greedy,

That is the most likely party to point fingers at.

burnin being greedy,

burnin has stated several times his margins are quite low. Of course he's not provided exact numbers, but f.ex. looking at his BitBurner XX design and how cheap it is, it's a good comparison. EDIT: that 470 eur price was chips included, which we know to cost 360 eur per board. So 110 eur per bare board + components + design + assembly etc. Add maybe 30-40 euro max per board for unforeseen cost increases and we're still at a reasonable price.

the Bitfury chips being more expensive than expected,

The prices have been well known. 22,5 eur per chip. A big buyer (more than a few reels?) might even get volume discounts.

the boards being more compciated than expected

burnin stated that the price rose somewhat, which I've earlier taken to mean maybe 30-40 eur per board, max.

I prefer not to speculate without information.)

We have plenty information if you bother to look for it.

[Roy Badami]

The prices have been well known. 22,5 eur per chip. A big buyer (more than a few reels?) might even get volume discounts.

Sure, but they weren't known when burnin estimated EUR 470, so quite possibly he was using a lower price in his estimate.  Also, you need to order at least five reels (of 3,000 chips each) to get a discount - so maybe, maybe not - that's quite a lot of chips to order up front.  And lets allow cyrptx the 10% markup on the chips that we allowed zefir and sebastian.

Sure, none of that explains the EUR 700 price....  I think you can easily come up with scenarios which justify EUR 600, but I agree it's hard to see where the EUR 700 goes.... and the silence here does no one any favours.

But as I say (despite your assertions to the contrary) we have little to no information;  mainly just speculation.

[Micky25]

Sure, but they weren't known when burnin estimated EUR 470, so quite possibly he was using a lower price in his estimate.  Also, you need to order at least five reels (of 3,000 chips each) to get a discount - so maybe, maybe not - that's quite a lot of chips to order up front.  And lets allow cyrptx the 10% markup on the chips that we allowed zefir and sebastian.

I assumed this before

When I get all this right, Burnin stated his first price before Bitfury raised the price for their chips by 50%

I don't think so.

[CumpsD]

I quite understand why he doenst want to deal with the forums and would rather leave them to soeone else.

More than single someone else would have been far better. No pricing competition + greedy untrustworthy vendor = stillborn product.

Unless you know what CryptX is paying burnin for the boards (and how much he is paying for the chips) you (or I) have no idea whether he is greedy or not.

And it's too early to tell whether he's trustworthy or not.  As I said, I've not seen anything he's done so far that has caused me concern.  (EDIT: Sure I'm disappointed with the price, but I have no idea whether that's due to CryptX being greedy, burnin being greedy, the Bitfury chips being more expensive than expected, the boards being more compciated than expected, all of the above, or none of the above.  I prefer not to speculate without information.)

Anyway, time will tell.  There's nothing more I can add here.

EDIT TO ADD: Jumping to conclusions and assuming the worst is par for the course in these forums.  It shoudln't be, but it is.  I understand that burnin would rather spend his time developing boards than reading the forum, but it should be CryptX's job to read the forums and respond to concerns, accusations, criticisms, etc.  CryptX is really not doing a good job of promoting the product he's supposed to be reselling.

CryptX is not a 'he' as in 1 person. It's a company founded by 2 people.

[chirale]

Is this project dead then? No activity on this thread for 5 days is quite eloquent....
What a sad end..

[BenTuras]

Is this project dead then? No activity on this thread for 5 days is quite eloquent....
What a sad end..

DIY by burnin is dead :-(
commercial by cryptx here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294735.0 :-((

[rebelrat]

Looks like Burnin went to "the dark side".  Please do not fund Cryptx hashing farm with this Bitfury burner price scam.
Just ask for a refund.  The product is not worth the price, you will not even break even with this price - ROI
- forget about it.  So do  yourself a favor and let them use their  own many to fund their hashing farm.

[abacus]

commercial by cryptx here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294735.0 :-((

Maybe he will not be the only reseller after mid October:

[...]
Regarding bitfury:
I have an exclusive agreement with cryptx until mid October.
[...]