[Sep 2025]Mempool empty, Consolidate your small inputs @0.24 sat/vbyte

[Medusah]

Spiderpool and F2Pool also joined.

From a pool's perspective, I think they have to choose between missing out on transactions because they reject the fee, or missing out on higher fees if users start switching to lower fees.

They have more to lose if they reject transactions paying less than 1 sat/vb.  My thought is that if pool X starts accepting those, then miners mining at that pool get more money when the mempool is empty.  Miners mining at other pools will eventually realize that they make less than those mining at pool X when the network is not congested.  Therefore, it creates an incentive to switching mining to the sub-1-sat pool. 

Right now, the first sub-1-sat mempool block, pays 0.008 BTC.  That's 0.25% of the block subsidy.  And remember than in 4 years, it will be 0.5%, then 1%, then 2%, etc...  Miners need to be very cautious at some point, and cannot afford the luxury of ignoring possible income. 

Bitcoin game theory rocks. 

[philipma1957]

trezor forces 1.0 as default for low .


They should consider 0.5 to 0.8

 I really want to see what happen in 2044 when rewards are down to

3.12500000
1.56250000. 2028
0.78125000  2032
0.39062500  2036
0.19531250  2040
0.09765625  2044       for the system to work  we may need to be at 4 million a coin

[LoyceV]

Spiderpool and F2Pool also joined.

How do they all do this so quickly?

[philipma1957]

Spiderpool and F2Pool also joined.

How do they all do this so quickly?

they talked to each other and are making a move.

F2pool is      8.8%
Spiderpool is 5.5%
luxor pool is  3.1%

So we are over 17% allowing smaller fees

[LoyceV]

they talked to each other and are making a move.

Electrum servers should join those talks I use Electrum more than Bitcoin Core now.

F2pool is 8.8%
Spiderpool is 5.5%

That makes it likely for them to find at least several blocks during times when "normal" 1 sat/vbyte mempool is empty.

[philipma1957]

they talked to each other and are making a move.

Electrum servers should join those talks I use Electrum more than Bitcoin Core now.

F2pool is 8.8%
Spiderpool is 5.5%

That makes it likely for them to find at least several blocks during times when "normal" 1 sat/vbyte mempool is empty.

I prefer trezor but Electrum is good, trezor should do an upgrade in the firmware and drop fee level a bit.

As time goes on there are issues of sats being too high. Allowing 0.5 to 0.9 and rounding the full fee works.

Ie : 112x.9= 100.8 round it to 101

[Medusah]

Spiderpool and F2Pool also joined.

How do they all do this so quickly?

Just by lowering their minrelaytxfee in Bitcoin Core, I suppose.  Here's the pull request: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32959.

[philipma1957]

Spiderpool and F2Pool also joined.

How do they all do this so quickly?

Just by lowering their minrelaytxfee in Bitcoin Core, I suppose.  Here's the pull request: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32959.

It would be nice to see Electrum and trezor allow it.

[LoyceV]

This is amazing: 0.57 sat/vbyte could be enough to get your transaction confirmed in the next block!

[hosemary]

Spiderpool and F2Pool also joined.

I see Antpool is also including transactions paying less than 1 sat/vbyte as fee in the blockchain.
In block number 906078, Antpool confirmed more than 250 transactions paying less than 1 sat/vbyte and the lowest was 0.34 sat/vbyte.

I think almost all mining pools will do the same soon.

[philipma1957]

Spiderpool and F2Pool also joined.

I see Antpool is also including transactions paying less than 1 sat/vbyte as fee in the blockchain.
In block number 906078, Antpool confirmed more than 250 transactions paying less than 1 sat/vbyte and the lowest was 0.34 sat/vbyte.

I think almost all mining pools will do the same soon.

well this solves quite a few issues down the road.

When btc is a dollar a sat one day and a 1 sat fee is 112 dollars.

a .1 sat fee is 11.2 dollars

and a 0.01 sat per block fee is 1.12 dollars


but 112 byte tx would limit the total fee to $1.12 times how many transactions per block

[LoyceV]

How's this for a block: it was found 10 seconds after the previous block, included only 16 transactions, and they vary from paying $0.02 to $86 for a small transaction.

[Cricktor]

I really don't know how some entities determine what fee rate to pay for transactions. In the block that LoyceV mentions the fee rate for transaction 1bceacc5...5b838bbf stands out as completely overpaid and unnecessarily high. Apparently the payer doesn't mind and care to waste coins.

The previous block wasn't full either, emptied the mempool and in a few seconds of mempool lifetime not so many new transactions poored in (a very brief check showed that basically all transactions were public and seen in mempools).

At that time there were regularly non-full blocks, so I would have paid a fee rate of 1.00 or max 1.10 sat/vB when I wouldn't need my transaction to be in the next block for sure, but confirmed within a few blocks max.

Paying sub 1 sat/vB is a bit new (I know and transacted in the early days of Bitcoin where there wasn't a minimum relay fee rate of 1 sat/vB) and not all wallets will publish such a transaction. Exporting a signed transaction hex is a workaround, but extra steps.

I think I'm going to lower my node's minimum relay fee rate to something realy low (for fun) now that sub 1 sat/vB fee rates became sort of a trend. Not sure though if my node's peers do the same. It would be interesting if my personal mempool receives such transactions and if my node can relay those, too.

[LoyceV]

I really don't know how some entities determine what fee rate to pay for transactions.

I've been wondering about that for years now. There are a few highly overpaid transactions in most blocks. Maybe they don't care, maybe they don't really know what they're doing.

[bitmover]

which wallets do you guys use for sub 1 sat/vB?

Electrum simple can't, it doesn't allow you to complete the transaction

[igor72]

which wallets do you guys use for sub 1 sat/vB?

I created such a transaction in Electrum and broadcasted it from the mempool.space website. But to do this I had to edit the wallet.py file, specifically replacing the line #3336 (v. 4.6.0)

Code:

allow_send = False

with

Code:

allow_send = True

.

[joker_josue]

0.09765625  2044       for the system to work  we may need to be at 4 million a coin

You have to encourage usage so that many transactions are carried out and there is good compensation.




It is really very positive to see that the fee values can be adjusted in more detail, given the current appreciation of BTC.

Without a doubt, we are at a great time to consolidate UTXO.

[LoyceV]

to do this I had to edit the wallet.py file, specifically replacing the line #3336 (v. 4.6.0)

Code:

allow_send = False

with

Code:

allow_send = True

.

That doesn't really work if you use AppImage. It would be good if some Electrum server accepts lower minimum fees. I'd set one up myself if it wouldn't take up that much disk space.

[stwenhao]

which wallets do you guys use for sub 1 sat/vB?

Bitcoin Core. In this client, it is possible to even make free transactions, or even negative fee transactions, if you want to (by using SIGHASH_SINGLE with SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY, and specifying some output with bigger amount that you have).

Also note, that you don't need to download the full blockchain history. You can just export any transaction with 1 sat/vB from Electrum or any other wallet, open it under Bitcoin Core, and then tweak it, to achieve, what you want.

This is amazing: 0.57 sat/vbyte could be enough to get your transaction confirmed in the next block!

Maybe I will make some low fee transactions by myself (because who wouldn't want low fees as a user; especially if batching is not properly supported yet), but I think it would be bad in the long-term, if 0.1 sat/vB will be a new standard. Then 0.01 sat/vB, then 0.001 sat/vB, and then one satoshi per transaction (regardless of its size), and finally, free transactions would also be allowed (because by having 0.001 sat/vB, and having for example 250 vB transaction, it would take 0.25 satoshis, and it may be rounded down, if free transactions will be allowed).

And then, after next halvings, we may have a lot more non-monetary use cases, where people will make zero satoshi inputs, zero satoshi outputs, with zero satoshi fees, and then, coinbase amounts will be low, and blockchain will no longer be used to process any payments, if 90% of the network will be focused on NFTs, and other things, and if coin amounts will be treated just like some unimportant field in legacy transaction space.

Also, if transaction fees will be too low, then blocks will never be empty again. Which means, that if there will be no payments anywhere, then miners may have additional incentive, to fill block data with consensus-neutral transactions, containing unimportant data pushes, and other stuff like that.

[joker_josue]

Also note, that you don't need to download the full blockchain history. You can just export any transaction with 1 sat/vB from Electrum or any other wallet, open it under Bitcoin Core, and then tweak it, to achieve, what you want.

How did you do that?