[HAVELOCK] CasinoBitco.in (CBTC) IPO Official Thread

[MonkeyBear68]

The question below is posted by ScatterShot in the Newbies section.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=290858.msg3111845#msg3111845

I have reposted it here as requested, and as a potential large investor I too would appreciate a response.

Thank you.


ScatterShot's Question:
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In regards to this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288518.msg3090397#msg3090397

I believe casinobitcoin is right when they repeatedly characterize this investment as "high risk / high reward", except for this passage in the prospectus:

"CasinoBitco.in reserves the right to buyback outstanding units of CBTC on Havelock Investments with a 30 day notice, with the price being determined by the higher of the 30-day weighted average price or the current market asking price of CBTC at the time of the official announcement of the buyback."

Yes, the company is young, small, behind the curve and undercapitalized, and there are many other problems including the ones KingOfSports alluded to (all of this is the "high risk" stuff). Now, *if* the company gets to the point where they start to take significant market share and "break out" commercially with rapid growth on strong fundamentals (the "high reward" part that investors would hope for), this clause would allow the company to unilaterally cash out the IPO investors at the instant valuation, which might cut them off from the lion's share of the upside over the following months/years.

I don't have a problem with this clause in and of itself, especially since the issuer has been above board with its inclusion in the prospectus. But there's really no way that any "sophisticated investor" (as defined by the SEC) being approached through a brokered or unbrokered private placement would touch this without having the clause severed from the prospectus, or reducing the implied P/E multiple by at least an order of magnitude, making the PPS about BTC 0.000018/share.

With this clause, IPO investors will still bear the full advertised high risk, but might not reap the associated high reward.

I'd appreciate it if someone who isn't a "newbie" could repost this to the thread mentioned above. Thanks.

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[1714641547]

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[huahualala]

how to buy?

[TheSwede75]

The question below is posted by ScatterShot in the Newbies section.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=290858.msg3111845#msg3111845

I have reposted it here as requested, and as a potential large investor I too would appreciate a response.

Thank you.


ScatterShot's Question:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In regards to this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288518.msg3090397#msg3090397

I believe casinobitcoin is right when they repeatedly characterize this investment as "high risk / high reward", except for this passage in the prospectus:

"CasinoBitco.in reserves the right to buyback outstanding units of CBTC on Havelock Investments with a 30 day notice, with the price being determined by the higher of the 30-day weighted average price or the current market asking price of CBTC at the time of the official announcement of the buyback."

Yes, the company is young, small, behind the curve and undercapitalized, and there are many other problems including the ones KingOfSports alluded to (all of this is the "high risk" stuff). Now, *if* the company gets to the point where they start to take significant market share and "break out" commercially with rapid growth on strong fundamentals (the "high reward" part that investors would hope for), this clause would allow the company to unilaterally cash out the IPO investors at the instant valuation, which might cut them off from the lion's share of the upside over the following months/years.

I don't have a problem with this clause in and of itself, especially since the issuer has been above board with its inclusion in the prospectus. But there's really no way that any "sophisticated investor" (as defined by the SEC) being approached through a brokered or unbrokered private placement would touch this without having the clause severed from the prospectus, or reducing the implied P/E multiple by at least an order of magnitude, making the PPS about BTC 0.000018/share.

With this clause, IPO investors will still bear the full advertised high risk, but might not reap the associated high reward.

I'd appreciate it if someone who isn't a "newbie" could repost this to the thread mentioned above. Thanks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMHO,
This is a very standard clause in place to be able to facilitate a possible late stage exit. Personally I think using weighted 30 day is far more fair then some buy backs I have seen that simply forces buyback at spot or worse.

[ranlo]

The question below is posted by ScatterShot in the Newbies section.

I don't have a problem with this clause in and of itself, especially since the issuer has been above board with its inclusion in the prospectus. But there's really no way that any "sophisticated investor" (as defined by the SEC) being approached through a brokered or unbrokered private placement would touch this without having the clause severed from the prospectus, or reducing the implied P/E multiple by at least an order of magnitude, making the PPS about BTC 0.000018/share.

With this clause, IPO investors will still bear the full advertised high risk, but might not reap the associated high reward.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In regards to the above statement I have been dealing with a lot of the same issues, but we are not dealing with "sophisticated investors" imo, in Bitcoin Land.  This is the majority of the issues, and my statement is not directed at Casinobitco.in directly but the 'securities' as a whole. This is why it is so hard to guage these early bitcoin companies.  

For Example
There is a security on Bitfunder that backs Rental property in the midwest US, it has tripled since IPO and even with the increase of $40-60 per bitcoin has not decreased really in share price.  A true bitcoin stock involved in US dollars would have decreased in bitcoin/share price.  Thus my belief we are not dealing with "sophisticated investors" - Mainly younger miner, gamers and such are still the majority of bitcoin users, who are trying to earn more.

IMO Bitcoin securities as a whole has became the new "dice" game for some Bitcoiners, as the chances of doubling up are good while going to 0 is very low.  And I believe is creating a bubble in these markets.

Honestly my valuation of Casinobitco.in is in between theirs and yours, but I see great upside in their company and the fact its a bitcoin stock and see "investors" trying to gain more bitcoins by using ownership in it.

This should be obvious based on how many people argue that PMB's (some of which are already IMPOSSIBLE to earn a full ROI on) are a good investment. You can sit there throwing math at them all day and their response is always along the lines of "I get paid daily or weekly and I can sell at any time, so it's profitable." It's a little depressing, really, and some of the IPO's are taking advantage of that. One of them was going for at least 5x its true valuation and promised (through a private offer) that I'd make a profit investing because people are going to be dumb enough to overvalue it as well and I could make a quick exit for at least 2x the investment amount as soon as the IPO hit. I didn't take them up on that offer, but there's been others run the same way as well. People are taking advantage of those stupid enough to invest in something when they have no business investing in the first place. Sure, some of them might turn a profit, but this isn't really investing, it's flat out gambling. I can go to a casino and figure out whether I'll win or lose a lot faster than dealing with IPO's here.

With that said, I think CBTC has a decent chance of survival. I'm also against their clause where they can buy back at the current price (meaning if they hit the big news, they could do a buyback right after they find out, taking all the increased profit and earnings). It'd also be possible to manipulate pricing so that stock price drops before something major happens -> they buy back -> they get even more benefits. The situation all caters towards Casinobitco.in, and that's a bit of a worry. When looking for investors, our security matters as well.

And they are going to be releasing the data from the 5th up through today as well, so we can see what the past 3-4 days have been like prior to the IPO, for any wondering!

[havelock]

how to buy?

You can buy through Havelock Investments on Tuesday at noon (ESD).  You would need to create and fund (with BTC) your account first.

Here's the IPO page when you can purchase CasinoBitco.in when the IPO starts at the above time. 
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=CBTC#ui-tabs-3

If you miss out on the IPO, the open market will being trading after the IPO sells out.  Here is the link for the open market:
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/order.php?symbol=CBTC

[casinobitcoin]

Hey all!
IPO is one day away!

For the sell clause: It was very important for us to word this in a way to build confidence, benefit, & protect investors. This is why we opted to add the higher of the 30-day weighted average price, or asking price - or asset sale price. So, investors will walk home with the best possible outcome in this situation.

The #1 concern was to protect investors in this clause - We'd want them to benefit the same as management in these scenarios. We don't intend to de-list unless it is somehow necessary, and investors should fully benefit from any risk/reward, as any upside potential should be reflected in the bid price as part of an efficient market, which would have ideally appreciated significantly for any IPVO investors. If not, it's our responsibility to compensate investors fairly. Unfortunately, such a clause is probably necessary to any bitcoin-based asset listing - It's included for transparency, and we seek to place our investor's interests first any any such situation.

Ultimately, is there some level of risk people need to account for there? Yes. I think this illustrates the value of earning the trust of our investors, which is very important to us.  

[casinobitcoin]

Due to lots of requests, a 3-day mid-week update has been posted on the projections page:

https://docs.google.com/a/statdude.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSWZWkGJ1V3dFpxZHVTN0x6ZldUeHRteWdBd1pMNXc#gid=12

Weekend #'s:
35 new registrations
54.98 deposits minus 40.34 withdrawls (BC)
8.03 in earnings

Excellent traffic and handle - Havelock definitely seemed to draw a few new players!

[kololo]

I‘m very excited. Waiting for the IPO.

[chstls]

Did TheSwede75 make a advertisement for your site on just-dice?

[casinobitcoin]

Did TheSwede75 make a advertisement for your site on just-dice?

That's correct. TheSwede75 is involved with some of our marketing efforts, etc.

We got a great deal this week

[TheSwede75]

Did TheSwede75 make a advertisement for your site on just-dice?

Yup, I enjoy supporting Bitcoin Start-ups that I think have a bright future and Casinobitco.in is one of them.

[TheSwede75]

Whoops,
I think the IPO just crashed the Havelock Investment IPO page. Holy crapballs, "Aaaand it's gone"...

[freedomno1]

It happens with the spike loads they are working on it
Best of luck  

Also pre congrats
Announcement   Start Date   End Date   Units Total   Units Remaining   Max Units per User   Price/Unit
2013-09-05   2013-09-10 12:00:00   2013-09-13 12:00:00   3000000   17379   500000   ฿0.0002

[ranlo]

Whoops,
I think the IPO just crashed the Havelock Investment IPO page

Yeah, it worried me. Luckily my order went through, I got the email and then BAM, crash. I was worried though because my order was "processing" (contacting the server) for over 45s before it finally finished.

[xchrisxsays]

Whoops,
I think the IPO just crashed the Havelock Investment IPO page

When can we expect trading to go live?

Since that IPO just sold out in 5 seconds

[freedomno1]

There we are congrats on a successful IPO

[TheSwede75]

Crap, gonna have to fill my order when trading starts. Stupidly set a high number for purchase and my order never filled since apparently the entire IPO sold out while my order was filling.

Edit; Pretty please sell me a bunch at IPO price when trading starts. "Think of the Children!"

[runam0k]

WTF?  It logged me out and by the time I logged back in (2 minutes later), all sold.

[havelock]

FYI Open Market will open in a few minutes

[aenemic]

That was anticlimactic.