[HAVELOCK] CasinoBitco.in (CBTC) IPO Official Thread

[bitrich]

Exactly my point, assets of 540BTC will double in value. So even if its only 25 of the evaluation it still doubles the value (in USD) of the 540BTC

Not really, because you can't request to cash out those shares for a portion of the bankroll. Thus if profits are lower, no one might be willing to buy at full price.

When you buy a share, you buy rights to PROFITS. You also earn a proportional share of the sale value if the casino is sold. But there's nothing about owning the bankroll or being able to cash that out at any time.

Are you saying that if the company is holding 540BTC and the value doubles the other entity buying the company would ignore the value of the BTC bankroll and only consider what is was worth the day before? Or are you saying the bankroll would not be included in the sale?

A sale for USD I mean. Since we all seem to be stuck on that

[Namworld]

Bankroll might not be included. I'm not sure of that.

CasinoBitco.in reserves the right to buyback outstanding units of CBTC on Havelock Investments with a 30 day notice, with the price being determined by the higher of the 30-day weighted average price or the current market asking price of CBTC at the time of the official announcement of the buyback.

If CasinoBitco.in is sold or acquired by any party, unit holders will be compensated based on the selling price on a per unit basis. Documentation must be provided if the sale results in a lower valuation than what is currently calculable on Havelock Investments based on the 30-day weighted average price of BCTC at the time of the official announcement of the sale.

Both buyback and selling clause have no mention of the bankroll.

[casinobitcoin]

Great conversation! Feel free to correct me here.

My sense is that typically, all assets would pass to a buyer in event of a sale.
So, in a sense, they would simply be included in the purchase price (increasing it, versus if they were handled separately), based on which all unit holders would be compensated.

[bitrich]

To be clear, this is a hypothetical event that the price of bitcoin doubles overnight and the company sells that day. In this case though I don't see why any profit gained by this scenario wouldn't be passed on to the shareholder as well as be reflected in the share price.

The more likely scenario of bitcoin USD value doubling over the course of a year say, would have more subtle effect I would guess. But I still think the opportunity for profits based on btc market value would happen, it all boils down to what the price does between the times the bitcoins are converted to fiat and then back to fiat. The way Im seeing it, there is risk/opportunity for the dividends receiver/shareholder to make a profit/loss between the time CBTC earns the profit, and divies to the shareholders. I imagine this would produce a similar if not slightly muted result as compared to the overnight BTC/USD double in value, only over an extended period of time.

There are a lot of possible scenarios and variable, but I'm just not buying the idea that a shareholder loses value overtime because BTC value increase overtime. Not in a BTC denominated company. That would mean that every BTC denominated company is expecting the market price (in fiat) of BTC to fall overtime for them to be profitable long-term. That's contrary to popular opinion. Shares are a stake in the company's profit/loss. Consider a mining company for example, there income is btc which is paid out to shareholders in dividends. Not in dollars. BTC value increase only increases the value (in dollars) of any btc held by shareholders or the mining company. In a mining company dividends dont decrease because of market value, because their income is btc. In the casino, dividends amount will decrease because of btc market value but not because profit was taken in USD, but because btc value effects how much of it someone will gamble in USD. That would mean your USD profit would not change, but your dividends amount would get smaller.

The only way I see I would be wrong is if CBTC converts BTC to USD to hold as assets, bankroll, or before paying dividends. Maybe they will clarify this.

I think a lot of people may miss the boat on some of these securities because they can't grasp  the economics of a BTC-denominated company. It's very hard to get people to see past USD. It is so ingrained in our heads it is hard to comprehend. Most people have no idea how fiat currencies work behind the scenes at all. They just know what $5 can buy and what $100 can buy and most know that overtime the price of things cost more $ and that's it. If you've ever tried to explain BTC to someone who's never heard of it you probably know what I mean.

I guess I shouldn't be complaining that just keeps the share prices lower for longer so I can accumulate more  


If I'm wrong, call me out and explain to me why.

[ranlo]

If I'm wrong, call me out and explain to me why.

I already did, but below is the quote so you can read it again. The fact is that while the USD holdings *remain the same*, you could have earned MORE by buying straight BTC because your BTC holdings would be greater. It doesn't matter if you spent 10 BTC and earned 5 BTC back but the price increased by 10x. Sure, you made 5x your original amount, but had you bought straight BTC you would have made twice that (10x the original amount).

I get that part but why does that decrease profits? Ill recieve less btc for dividends, but my share value will increase and the value of my dividend should not change. Am I still missing the point?

BTC is $100 each now. You invest $1000 into a company. That's 10 BTC.

Over a year, you earn back 5 BTC that are worth $500 each. So you have $2500 now ($1500 profit).

You could have put that same $1000 into the BTC and held it, where you'd now have $5000 ($4000 profit).

[bitrich]

If I'm wrong, call me out and explain to me why.

I already did, but below is the quote so you can read it again. The fact is that while the USD holdings *remain the same*, you could have earned MORE by buying straight BTC because your BTC holdings would be greater. It doesn't matter if you spent 10 BTC and earned 5 BTC back but the price increased by 10x. Sure, you made 5x your original amount, but had you bought straight BTC you would have made twice that (10x the original amount).

I get that part but why does that decrease profits? Ill recieve less btc for dividends, but my share value will increase and the value of my dividend should not change. Am I still missing the point?

BTC is $100 each now. You invest $1000 into a company. That's 10 BTC.

Over a year, you earn back 5 BTC that are worth $500 each. So you have $2500 now ($1500 profit).

You could have put that same $1000 into the BTC and held it, where you'd now have $5000 ($4000 profit).

Your not taking into account the share price after a year, if you earned 5 BTC back (50% Return) you would be holding shares in a decent company whose share value will very likely bring back a profit over what you paid should you decide to sell. Say the company had no growth really but maintained their current valuation (which is unlikely) and their incoming BTC decreased proportionately to their value rise. Your shares may sell for less BTC but would probably be valued (in USD) around the same amount $1000 which $1000+$2500(5BTC earned)+The same profit you would have seen from holding the original 10BTC. But if the company has significant holdings in BTC (bankroll) they would see a value increase of the bankroll and a corresponding increase in company valuation depending on how much of the company's value is in the bankroll. So in my opinion, you would earn the dividends(in USD value related to profit) The share value increase (partly from BTC holdings value increase and partly from growth and partly because it returned 50% in dividends in a year lol) which would be greater obviously than the $4000 profit from holding 10BTC. If the value of the company was solely based on the bankroll holdings it would now be 5X more valuable earning you $5000 from selling shares and $2500 in dividends.

[bitrich]

We may just have to agree to disagree on this one ran,  that would be why some are long and some are short. We wouldn't need a market if there was no question the value.

[ranlo]

If I'm wrong, call me out and explain to me why.

I already did, but below is the quote so you can read it again. The fact is that while the USD holdings *remain the same*, you could have earned MORE by buying straight BTC because your BTC holdings would be greater. It doesn't matter if you spent 10 BTC and earned 5 BTC back but the price increased by 10x. Sure, you made 5x your original amount, but had you bought straight BTC you would have made twice that (10x the original amount).

I get that part but why does that decrease profits? Ill recieve less btc for dividends, but my share value will increase and the value of my dividend should not change. Am I still missing the point?

BTC is $100 each now. You invest $1000 into a company. That's 10 BTC.

Over a year, you earn back 5 BTC that are worth $500 each. So you have $2500 now ($1500 profit).

You could have put that same $1000 into the BTC and held it, where you'd now have $5000 ($4000 profit).

Your not taking into account the share price after a year, if you earned 5 BTC back (50% Return) you would be holding shares in a decent company whose share value will very likely bring back a profit over what you paid should you decide to sell. Say the company had no growth really but maintained their current valuation (which is unlikely) and their incoming BTC decreased proportionately to their value rise. Your shares may sell for less BTC but would probably be valued (in USD) around the same amount $1000 which $1000+$2500(5BTC earned)+The same profit you would have seen from holding the original 10BTC. But if the company has significant holdings in BTC (bankroll) they would see a value increase of the bankroll and a corresponding increase in company valuation depending on how much of the company's value is in the bankroll. So in my opinion, you would earn the dividends(in USD value related to profit) The share value increase (partly from BTC holdings value increase and partly from growth and partly because it returned 50% in dividends in a year lol) which would be greater obviously than the $4000 profit from holding 10BTC. If the value of the company was solely based on the bankroll holdings it would now be 5X more valuable earning you $5000 from selling shares and $2500 in dividends.

I was taking into consideration that.

At CBTC's IPO price, it would take (with 10 BTC profit a week) 17.3 years for a 100% ROI. At the current price, it's at ~40 years for 100% ROI, assuming 10 BTC per week in pure profit.

Assuming they increase their profit by 7x to 10 BTC a day instead of per week, that still leaves us at ~2.5 year ROI at IPO and ~6-7 years current. Keep in mind this means *profit*, not just income.

I personally have a lot of shares in the company that I'm holding, but I also know the risk of doing so. You have to decide on your own whether or not the risk is worth the reward.

[kololo]

Hi all,
We're going to move to bi-weekly financial updates for now, in the interest of less volatility in results/public shares.

Next update to be posted by the 17th, for the 1st-15th.

Waiting for the new financial updates.

[casinobitcoin]

Hi all,
We're going to move to bi-weekly financial updates for now, in the interest of less volatility in results/public shares.

Next update to be posted by the 17th, for the 1st-15th.

Waiting for the new financial updates.

Stay tuned - will be posted in next 3 hours.

[casinobitcoin]

9/15 Mid-month September update:

On 9/10, we released units representing 10% of our company on Havelock Investments, selling all 3,000,000 units in a record less than 3 minutes. We greatly appreciate the support we’ve received from our investors. We saw a spike across our metrics, and can certainly attribute a portion of this to the success of our offering.

Public Metrics and Projections Google Doc update:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSWZWkGJ1V3dFpxZHVTN0x6ZldUeHRteWdBd1pMNXc&usp=sharing

9/1-9/15/13 resulted in an estimated 39.48 btc in earnings, up from 13.5 btc in the previous period, a 192% increase.

Over the same bi-weekly period, we experienced continued growth:
-Registrations increased from 63 to 111, a 76% increase
-Deposits increased from 44.99 to 192.98.
-We saw increasing action in the Sportsbook, including 170% growth over a 2-week period in # of bets 8/15-9/1 over the first half of August, and 236% growth in # of bets 9/1-9/15.
-The Casino also saw increased action

We're continuing to work on our reporting functionality and the depth of information we can publish for investors. Our full month-end update, which will be more comprehensive*, will be published by 10/2, covering all of September.

Thank you!
-CasinoBitco.in team

***Important note: The mid-month update does not include information on our development and full P&L we will hold for the regular month-end update, including expenses and dividends, and will focus on estimated growth and earnings only.

[Namworld]

9/1-9/15/13 resulted in an estimated 39.48 btc in earnings, up from 13.5 btc in the previous period, a 192% increase.

The period from 9/1 to 9/15 is longer than the previous period, so that's not really a 192% increase.

[casinobitcoin]

Was really wanting to see a new financial statement after IPO, so a baseline was set, please provide full updated statistics listed in IPO prospectus on months end.

uvwvj,

Full financials and P&L will be updated will come beginning of month for previous month. Please correct me if you are looking for something else  

[utens]

a.   September 16, 2013: 1,125,000 units
b.   December 17, 2013: 375,000 units
c.   March 17, 2014: 3,000,000 units



What does this mean? 

wasn't suppose to be released more units into the market today?

[utens]

a.   September 16, 2013: 1,125,000 units
b.   December 17, 2013: 375,000 units
c.   March 17, 2014: 3,000,000 units

What does this mean?  

wasn't suppose to be released more units into the market today?

Those are owner shares that are being released to Havelock's system (which has been completed) does not mean owners have to sell.  They can set asks at their choice and not at current market price.

U mean owners of the site? or even  shareowners?

[casinobitco]

a.   September 16, 2013: 1,125,000 units
b.   December 17, 2013: 375,000 units
c.   March 17, 2014: 3,000,000 units

What does this mean?  

wasn't suppose to be released more units into the market today?

Those are owner shares that are being released to Havelock's system (which has been completed) does not mean owners have to sell.  They can set asks at their choice and not at current market price.

U mean owners of the site? or even  shareowners?

These are pre-IPO investors that helped with bankroll raising earlier on. In exchange for their capital they received shares post IPO based on the schedule above. As mentioned, they can do whatever they like with the shares, hold or sell.

-

[utens]

Awesome, crystal clear!

Like how this is going (y)

[TheSwede75]

a.   September 16, 2013: 1,125,000 units
b.   December 17, 2013: 375,000 units
c.   March 17, 2014: 3,000,000 units

What does this mean?  

wasn't suppose to be released more units into the market today?

Those are owner shares that are being released to Havelock's system (which has been completed) does not mean owners have to sell.  They can set asks at their choice and not at current market price.

U mean owners of the site? or even  shareowners?

These are pre-IPO investors that helped with bankroll raising earlier on. In exchange for their capital they received shares post IPO based on the schedule above. As mentioned, they can do whatever they like with the shares, hold or sell.

-

Seems pretty clear what the pre-IPO investors think of the company. Additional shares are released and price goes up

[casinobitcoin]

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[chstls]

9/15 Mid-month September update:

On 9/10, we released units representing 10% of our company on Havelock Investments, selling all 3,000,000 units in a record less than 3 minutes. We greatly appreciate the support we’ve received from our investors. We saw a spike across our metrics, and can certainly attribute a portion of this to the success of our offering.

Public Metrics and Projections Google Doc update:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmSWZWkGJ1V3dFpxZHVTN0x6ZldUeHRteWdBd1pMNXc&usp=sharing

Can u still keep offer daily update,cause we shareholder pay close attention to it.