[SCAM PREVENTION]Remove self-moderation for topics within the marketplace!

[hilariousetc]

I would support this being restricted to higher level accounts as I agree it is massively abused by scammers. With that being said, users doing so are usually big red flags and immediately set off alarm bells.

They are big flags to everyone EXCEPT the vast majority who buy from them which are 90% newbies who find the scammers via Google search who have no idea on how to read TRUST or more importantly "UNTRUSTED" TRUST which remains hidden.

True, but most of them get tagged by people who see this behaviour, though I know from experience even this doesn't always stop idiots from sending them their money.

I think locking self-moderation behind copper membership for those below member is a reasonable solution

I had to go surf through about 10-pages of information about the copper membership to figure out if this would be a fair proposal. I've concluded that I have no problem with this, but I would've if the Copper Membership was cheap. It seems like the copper membership was about $40, which is a fair price to pay for something that gives you so many privileges. For example, if it was only $10 for copper membership it would seem too susceptible to abuse.

I wouldn't be against it being a perk of paid copper membership but I'd rather it just be earned over time with rank than just bought, because I think most newbies who come here wont want or need to self-mod anyway so some scammers will inevitably likely pay the fee to enable it (though most won't bother).

[1714867260]

1714867260

[bill gator]

I wouldn't be against it being a perk of paid copper membership but I'd rather it just be earned over time with rank than just bought, because I think most newbies who come here wont want or need to self-mod anyway so some scammers will inevitably likely pay the fee to enable it (though most won't bother).

I had the same thought, but then I was thinking if something like copper-member exists at all then there might as well be some interesting perks to see how it is used and if it is still abused by the lower-ranking members who decide to buy it. I was thinking most newbies that come here won't want or need to embed pictures within their posts, and if they do it would most likely be extremely low-quality or even off-topic altogether. My point is that, this logic could be used to refute any of the perks that copper membership offers; they would probably all be better off being earned, rather than bought because of potential abuse. It would be interesting to see how it would play out, but obviously if it would do more harm than good, like making scams easier, then keep it restricted outside of Copper.

I honestly don't know if Self-moderation or Pictures by newbies (when it was available) gets abused/misused more often; Copper Membership and removal of this privilege for newbies has gone a long way towards thwarting the abuse and it might do the same for Self-moderation.

[MiLkz]

I would be against self-moderation being a perk for copper. Copper is only ~$20 right now(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=credit;promote), would be much too easy for the scammers to buy that compared to buying a whole account.

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Everyone seems too over concerned with merit for us to get any attention, haha

[bolinao]

I would be against self-moderation being a perk for copper. Copper is only ~$20 right now(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=credit;promote), would be much too easy for the scammers to buy that compared to buying a whole account.

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Everyone seems too over concerned with merit for us to get any attention, haha

Have you received any feedback yet from staff regarding this ? Would it be worth while messaging Admin to see if they would implement what you have proposed or is this thread just a waste of time ?

[zikabra]

1) More and more scammers are using self-moderation as a shield to prevent users from calling out any illicit activities.

Self-moderation topic should raise first red flag, whenever I see such topic my first thought is there is something wrong with this.

3) Threads posted in the scam accusation section can go unseen by potential victims and new users.

Only if they don't do research. Bitcointalk isn't only source for information and people should not rely on only one source. Never.

4) Newer users may be unaware of the trust system

Trust is hidden on several boards and it should be visible on every board. But before making deals people should click on user profile and they will see trust, if red color under trust doesn't mean anything there is nothing much you can do. Red color usually means alarm, stop, something is wrong.

4)unregistered users do not see it at all.

It is not rocket science to create new account and it is not time consuming.

[MiLkz]

Have you received any feedback yet from staff regarding this ? Would it be worth while messaging Admin to see if they would implement what you have proposed or is this thread just a waste of time ?

No feedback from staff yet and I imagine theymos gets flooded with a hundred PMs a day. This thread was posted here to hopefully catch their attention and gauge the communities interest/concerns with this suggested change.

..but yes, I will contact him soon..

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@ zikabra
It looks like you only read some of my post.  I will copy and paste what I said here for you:
"ESCROW usage is, as always, key, and it is always up to the user to do their due diligence before entering any trade.  This is just another step to make it more fool proof."

[nomadcrypto]

Great idea! The vast majorty, if not all, self moderated topics in the digital goods board are scams. Allowing self moderated topics is basically allowing scamming to continue.

[npredtorch]

I agree with this as well. Now that the merit system have been implemented, it would be really hard for scammers to do their evil deeds when partnered with this restriction for self moderated topic.
To think that they still need to make quality posts in order to reach the full member rank, is for sure will be a long and "boring" path for them. Some of them might give up on the run.

For the copper member, I guess it isn't bad to restrict it too for them.

[warningsigns]

I’m in. Self moderation and thread locking are scam tools. New accounts are almost always the main culprits. I saw one recent thread on the goods section selling phones:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2962934.0

I reported it but it’s still frustrating to see them get away with posting this drivel. The thread is untouchable, except by the section moderators.

[MiLkz]

I sent a PM to theymos yesterday, hopefully he reads it   

Here is are 2 recent examples of scams by the same person that could have possibly been prevented:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2973800.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3014635

[nomadcrypto]

here is a fresh one

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2838538.0

[nomadcrypto]

From a scam report about the OP in my previous post

As others have said, never buy direct without escrow from a self moderated thread that is locked all the time.

That's obvious for us, but he is preying on newbies who know no better and that's how he is scamming and that's how he is making money.

[bolinao]

I would of thought some feedback in this thread from staff would of been appropriate, considering this is a very serious problem on this site. 

[BTCforJoe]

-snip

About ten days ago maybe 13 I saw so many scammers on the first two pages of market place I was impressed enough to post a warning thread. Hoping to save some people grief .

I'm here because I saw EcuaMobi's warning thread in the Marketplace. I didn't see yours, and I've included the Marketplace board on my watchlist. Sad, because it just goes to show how many scammers are starting new threads lately.


I also came here to say that I fully support the idea of restricting self-moderation options for newbies. I hate to say that people should be able to easily identify scams and avoid because we all know that it wouldn't keep happening if people were just a bit patient and did some due diligence before making purchases. Unfortunately, as much as the staff don't want to get involved with the ecosystem of the boards, scams within the marketplace here contribute to a negative view about the forums overall. I, myself, have been scammed for a service here (and I'm pretty tech-savvy), and every time I posted my experiences on the thread, it would be deleted immediately.

That brings me to my next question. Is there any reason at all to keep the self-moderation option for newbies? I could understand that they want to keep their topics clean and organized, but isn't that what the top-post is for? I'd imagine that a simple edit (and inclusion of quotes, if necessary) and maintaining a well-organized top post would fulfill the same duties as self-moderation, amiright?

I'd love to see the admins at least acknowledge that they've seen this topic. I see no use for newbies to use self-moderation features in the marketplace.

[EcuaMobi]

-snip

About ten days ago maybe 13 I saw so many scammers on the first two pages of market place I was impressed enough to post a warning thread. Hoping to save some people grief .

I'm here because I saw EcuaMobi's warning thread in the Marketplace. I didn't see yours, and I've included the Marketplace board on my watchlist. Sad, because it just goes to show how many scammers are starting new threads lately.

I didn't see philipma1957's warning either. Unfortunately every non-bumped thread gets lost pretty soon there. A fair warning should be sticked on Digital Goods especially.


I just want to show my support to disallowing self-moderation for newbies. I'd also forbid them to unlock threads.

Locking is sometimes required for them. I've warned several newbies asking for loans without collateral for example, giving them a chance to immediately close and lock their threads instead of getting negative trust.
When a newbie locks a thread, a warning should be shown telling them they won't be allowed to unlock them, so no more bumps for them. Locked would really mean closed.

DT members, please replace my red trust on this thread locker's post with yours:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3057667.0

Done

[warningsigns]

DT members, please replace my red trust on this thread locker's post with yours:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3057667.0

I will then remove mine.

I tentatively tagged the account to prevent some gullible members from being lured into his whatsapp trap.

Thanks.

[MiLkz]

I'd love to see the admins at least acknowledge that they've seen this topic.

I was thinking sending a PM every couple weeks?

I'd also forbid them to unlock threads.

Yep, I have that in my original suggestion. Locked threads can just as easily be using in the same fashion as self-moderation.

[adelaisav]

This subject has been discussed to eternity. On the off chance that you think somebody is misleading or doing fishy stuff , make a post about it in the scam accusation board, or leave frickin neg trust. Just don't believe any individual who makes self moderated threat with suspicious reason or other shady shit .What making a self moderated thread stays in this forum is different perception of people , so it might be normal to be skeptical just like us

[BTCforJoe]

This subject has been discussed to eternity. On the off chance that you think somebody is misleading or doing fishy stuff , make a post about it in the scam accusation board, or leave frickin neg trust. Just don't believe any individual who makes self moderated threat with suspicious reason or other shady shit .What making a self moderated thread stays in this forum is different perception of people , so it might be normal to be skeptical just like us

Really, newbie? It's been discussed to eternity? You've been a member of the forums for less than a year, hardly an eternity

But I think that this point is raised constantly because there hasn't been a valid solution that has been implemented. And until theymos or Cyrus answer in any of these topics with a definitive answer, they will continue to be asked. Additionally, requiring a member to check the Scam Accusations thread before purchasing anything and trying to navigate it to find a relevant post with the possibility that their seller will have a thread? HORRIBLE user flow, and highly ineffective. Which is why posts like this keep popping up.

[bolinao]

bump for a major problem that needs fixed

I think you are just wasting your time, the staff will never implement changes to stop scammers, even though they know you are correct, even though they know it's the right thing to do, their pride will get in the way.