Bitcoin Pyramid [Beta] - the oldest working pyramid? [OLD THREAD]

[arsenische]

Registered yesterday and made some deposits! but still not in my account balance! is there a time gap between deposit and acceptance?
ref link http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/10115.

Yes, it requires 6 confirmations and may work with some lag. I can see that your first deposit got accepted, whereas the second one has only 5 confirmations yet.

[kbroadfoot]

Heya fdeabreu2u...   This pyramid works but it is all about being patient....  good luck!

[moneyisthereason]

http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/10164

mate I sent 0,01 BTC and I got a coiuple guys I reffered but I havent got any money yet
what do I need to do now
I post my affiliate link everywhere

[kbroadfoot]

The pyramid worked way better when BTC was cheap...  but it still limping along....  it really is all about getting PAYING referrals. And luck...   the random payments are luck... Just keep posting your referral address and let it be....

[kbroadfoot]

arsenische, can you check the bitcoind on the pyramid again? Been nearly 8 days no activity...

[arsenische]

arsenische, can you check the bitcoind on the pyramid again? Been nearly 8 days no activity...

oops, sorry, you are right, fixed it. about a dozen of delayed transactions have been processed. thanks for reporting!

[mineradam]

Bitcoin Pyramid is very nice,
check also new Ponzi game in my signature. For referral you can get 10 percent from his earned money and there is also bitcoin faucet.

[MINX]

Hello.

I just joined and I sent 0.0046 btc to my deposit address: 1YZVN6uRZodPuZNiaKy9m73CFYfxZGkCd
The transaction has now 14 confirmations but is not showed in my Bitcoin Pyramid balance.  How long takes it to update the balance?

Thanks

http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/10624

[EDITED]

Balance is OK now, thanks

[kbroadfoot]

Wow.... something odd is happening....before we played the pyramid for huge amounts.... like 2 BTC and such... that was like 10 dollars.... NOW a payout of 0.017 is actually BIGGER than 2 BTC was in the beginning.... talk about coming around full circle.....

I suspect we may see some play in the pyramid yet....

[btcton]

http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/10795

You know you want to!

[arsenische]

Dear pyramid members.

Bitcoin Pyramid has been working since 2011 and I have been doing my best to protect the members' interests since that time. But Bitcoin price raised a lot and it repels new users from joining the pyramid.

According to Pyramid Rules, "Rules are a subject to change.".

So do you think it is acceptable or desirable to change the rules so that all the moneys are accounted in USD (not in BTC) and all past deposits/withdrawals/balances should be recalculated accordingly?

It would debase deposited funds but it would probably allow much more new users to join. And there are plenty of potential new users due to the recent rapid growth of Bitcoin community.

Moreover it increases our chances to find some person or group who would take over the pyramid and develop it.

Please let me know what you think.

[arsenische]

So do you think it is acceptable or desirable to change the rules so that all the moneys are accounted in USD (not in BTC)...Please let me know what you think.

Here is an alternative idea:

• Make it so that EVERY member HAS TO deposit a minimum amount of 0.01 BTC.
• A separate fee of 0.01 BTC per year would also be required to maintain membership, regardless of how much the person has donated. This fee would go to a new separate BTC deposit address for each member.
• The collected membership fees would be added to the random BTC distribution pool. Each member could prepay if they wish (e.g. send 0.1 BTC now to prepay membership dues for 10 years).
• Heavily promote the new version of the pyramid in emerging BTC economies such as China and India.

Membership rules for the new pyramid:

• Every existing member who has contributed less than 0.01 BTC would have until 12/31/2013 to do so, or their account would be DELETED.
• All existing members who have contributed 0.01 BTC or more would have until 01/31/14 to deposit the 0.01 BTC membership dues covering 01/31/14 to 01/31/15, or their account would be SUSPENDED (they would receive no random distributions until their dues were current).
• Deleting more than 8,000 members who have contributed <0.01 BTC will take some time, unless you use a script. This will possibly give non-contributing members some grace time, but it will also apply pressure. If they do not contribute at least 0.01 BTC by 12/31/13, their account could be deleted at any time, and of course, they could not receive any random distributions after 12/31.
  
• Members who paid their full dues on or before January 31st of each year would receive a bonus (paid in BTC) on December 1st of that  same year. As the price of BTC rises, members could opt for alternative bonuses such a yearlong subscription to Bitcoin Magazine, a laptop or desktop computer, or other items of relatively high value.

Based on current conditions, this would do the following:

• Remove at least (1 - 1877/10858) * 100% = 82.7% of the current members.
• Make it much more attractive for new members to join, and for all members to deposit higher amounts.

Recommended Tips

• Please demonstrate to Arsenische how much you love my idea by sending a tip to me at: 18xUgvAERKkYNPBBc788wkqCGUX1Pr4QU4
• Love the idea: Tip >= 0.001 BTC.
• Like the idea: 0.001 BTC > Tip > 0.0001 BTC.
• Hate the idea: 0.0001 BTC > Tip > 0.00001 BTC.

Thanks for your ideas, I need to think them over.

I like the idea of providing additional incentive for new deposits. But I don't like restricting the pyramid to paying members only. Bitcoin Pyramid is a chance for poor people to get their first bitcoins. Free members that contribute to the Pyramid by attracting paying members should be rewarded. That is to common good.

Also I think your solution doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that people who deposited to Bitcoin Pyramid in 2011 have got a huge advantage due to Bitcoin price increase.

The Pyramid was supposed to be a fair system that rewards people in proportion to their financial and promotional contribution. But now newcomers can't compete with members who deposited BTC in 2011. You need to deposit thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins to get a real chance of receiving a random payment worth of few bucks. That's insane.

I think that Bitcoin value is not a good unit of account yet. That is why the Pyramid: a) shouldn't charge fixed bitcoin fees; and b) probably should account financial contribution of its members in USD (according to historical exchange rate at the time of contribution). In that case USD inflation would probably make the system sustainable without additional annual fees. Or maybe we could use some artificial unit of account instead of USD and inflate it automatically if people don't deposit funds to Pyramid.

[Adriano]

How about a moving average of each user's payments? Lets say 365 days. This would generate an incentive to users (even current ones) to make additional deposits without many changes. And I think this wouldn't be unfair with existing users if we use a relative long period in which users could profit from random payments' earnings.

Also, I don't think you should abandon the use of bitcoin as a unit of account yet... maybe it would require some adjustment in the deposit values once in a while when bitcoin moves in favor/against the dollar: 0.01 BTC is now worth ~ $10, what would be a good amount? $5 (0.005) $1 (0.001)

Anyway it is just an ideia. I think these two could help to avoid the problem without giving up the entire idea.


Regards,


Adriano

[arsenische]

How about a moving average of each user's payments? Lets say 365 days. This would generate an incentive to users (even current ones) to make additional deposits without many changes. And I think this wouldn't be unfair with existing users if we use a relative long period in which users could profit from random payments' earnings.

Wow, I like this idea!

[Adriano]

How about a moving average of each user's payments? Lets say 365 days. This would generate an incentive to users (even current ones) to make additional deposits without many changes. And I think this wouldn't be unfair with existing users if we use a relative long period in which users could profit from random payments' earnings.

Wow, I like this idea!

Hi everyone!

I think that we need to remember that a lot of guys who put in a lot of BTC in the early days did not get anywhere near what they put in back out. For example, I put in 10 BTC back in late 2011, but I have only gotten out 0.4 BTC so far. I think that only about 122 people have actually profited on the pyramid so far.

How would you be fair to those who put in a lot of BTC that would been worth a lot more money today? For example, if you use a 365 day moving average, you really screw the person who put in 10 BTC in 2011 and only got out 0.4 or 0.5. That person would have had over $10,000 today if they had just left that BTC on a flash drive. Basically what I am saying is, that yes, it seems unfair that the "old" guys have an advantage, but many of them would have had a great deal of funds had they not put their BTC in the pyramid. IMO, a priority should be getting more of the members of the pyramid to profitability. The only way to do that is to ensure that a higher percentage of the people in the pyramid contribute to it financially. Only having 18% of the people in the pyramid contributing is not sustainable IMO. Just my 2 cents.

Hi Philogus,

I agree the main point is to turn most of the users into paying ones. They can "pay" either with coins or bringing paying members as referrals.

I will try to get the data and do some analysis on it to see if I come with a better suggestion. Hopefully there aren't many cases like yours and we can start with the moving average only for the users that have already profit from the random payments. This will increase the chance for the ones that haven't yet (as well as the new members that arrive).

I have a couple other ideas but they are very crude yet and I need to sleep on them in order to see if it make sense.

Adriano

[arsenische]

I think that we need to remember that a lot of guys who put in a lot of BTC in the early days did not get anywhere near what they put in back out. For example, I put in 10 BTC back in late 2011, but I have only gotten out 0.4 BTC so far.

Wow, one of our major members is here. Thanks for joining the conversation, your opinion is very important!

How would you be fair to those who put in a lot of BTC that would been worth a lot more money today? For example, if you use a 365 day moving average, you really screw the person who put in 10 BTC in 2011 and only got out 0.4 or 0.5. That person would have had over $10,000 today if they had just left that BTC on a flash drive. Basically what I am saying is, that yes, it seems unfair that the "old" guys have an advantage, but many of them would have had a great deal of funds had they not put their BTC in the pyramid.

Yes, those who spent their bitcoins in late 2011 (when it was worth $5) missed an opportunity to spend them now for $1000. However if those who deposited 10 btc in late 2011 get at least 0.05 btc today then they break even (i. e. get back about the same amount of purchasing power as they contributed). Let's be realistic: it is quite unlikely to get $10 000 worth of bitcoin from the pyramid at its current state anyway. Nobody would deposit to the pyramid if even major members don't profit from it. However in terms of USD major members could profit!

IMO, a priority should be getting more of the members of the pyramid to profitability.

Yes, that's the goal. It could be much easier to achieve in terms of inflating currency (rather than exponentially deflating). That's why I am still thinking about converting everything to USD. What do you think about it?

Also maybe we could somehow discriminate the winners as Adriano suggested. Though not sure about it. Ideally winning members should be interested to deposit their profits back into Pyramid in order to increase their long term profits.

[arsenische]

Philogus, I like the idea of adding some value to the Pyramid (increasing advertising revenue, motivating some other kinds of members' participation, e. g. content creation... we could brainstorm the ideas..).

Not paying in, but bringing in paying members is valuable, but our problem is that most people do not pay AT ALL. I went through my referrals and it is is hard to find one who has paid anything OR brought in any referrals. I hate to put it so bluntly, but I think that the vast majority of our members do not participate in the system at all. They do not bring in paying members, they do not pay in etc. These kinds of members are not valuable. There should be some method for preventing people who have no real interest in participating in the pyramid from having a chance to earn our BTC.

But those who don't pay and don't bring in (directly or indirectly) paying referrals don't get money from Bitcoin Pyramid. Let me remind you of these rules:

2.1. Each member receives up to 50% of his/her referral's income (but not more than s/he deposited + 0.01 btc at a time) and pays about 50% of his/her income to his/her sponsor".

2.3. Each member's chances to receive random payments or to become a random sponsor of newcomer depend on sum of his/her deposits. [1] Moreover each random payment's size is limited by member's deposits [2]. Thus if member doesn't deposit anything, then he/she is unlikely to receive random payments or random referrals.

So if they attract paying members, then they can get no more than  0.01 btc at a time. Let's say you are a free member and you attract a referral that pays 1 btc. You could receive 0.5 btc from it, but you receive only 0.01 btc because you didn't deposit anything. All the remaining funds (0.49 unreceived by you + 0.5 btc) btc will be distributed among random members with respect to their deposits. E. g. if the selected random member deposited only 0.1 btc then s/he receives only 0.11 btc from 0.99 btc. The remaining 0.88 btc goes to other random member, etc. Thus you got free BTC and kind of happy, but you brought much higher profits for paying members.

At the early stage a lot of free members were reinvesting 0.01 btc amounts they earned from their referrals in order to earn more in future. I still think it is a good mechanism. It doesn't work well probably because 0.01 btc is a lot now.  It should be changed to 0.0001 btc probably, or perhaps it should be always equal to ~0.1$.

[opticbit]

Dear pyramid members.

Bitcoin Pyramid has been working since 2011 and I have been doing my best to protect the members' interests since that time. But Bitcoin price raised a lot and it repels new users from joining the pyramid.

According to Pyramid Rules, "Rules are a subject to change.".

So do you think it is acceptable or desirable to change the rules so that all the moneys are accounted in USD (not in BTC) and all past deposits/withdrawals/balances should be recalculated accordingly?

It would debase deposited funds but it would probably allow much more new users to join. And there are plenty of potential new users due to the recent rapid growth of Bitcoin community.

Moreover it increases our chances to find some person or group who would take over the pyramid and develop it.

Please let me know what you think.

I think in Keeping it fair
Randomly Select USD vs BTC value calculation for who gets a random pay out
and Separately Randomly Select USD vs BTC value Calculation for what a maximum payout is.

not sure if usd vs btc value randomness should be 50/50 need to think about it, see what others have to say.

[opticbit]

If people who invested in this pyramid are enthusiastic about it, they probably think this project needs new ideas and further development.

What can be done:

- translate to other languages
- add a-ads code to increase the frequency of random payments
- go opensource to increase trust to the system
- improve the interface, nicer design, authorization via bitcoin address (e. g. signing the random message given by site)
- HTML widgets that could be embedded by members in their sites or blogs to attract new referrals
- allow each member to contribute some content, e. g. to set a message with a hyperlink and upload an image... so each member would be represented by an icon, and we'll see some content on the member's page, and also a gallery of members' referrals.. that could be fun to navigate through hierarchy and watch all those galleries.. thus increasing the advertising revenue of involved members or a pyramid as a whole.
- accept alt-coins via gateways (that would convert them to btc)
- change rules, e. g. limit the profits of the winners or allow to buy higher position in the hierarchy (swap nodes for money), reduce withdrawal theshold.. or something else...
- allow each member to vote on initiatives regarding the rules change and further pyramid improvements (votes are not equal, but are proportional to amount of money deposited by voters)

There can be many more ideas, these are just the few that came to my mind during creation of this post.

The problem is that I am NOT going to implement any of them in near future.

I started BitcoinPyramid in July 2011. It was fun and helped me to learn more things about Bitcoin and to earn some money to play with too. But for some reason BitcoinPyramid is not exciting for me anymore. I am keeping the pyramid alive mainly because it is my obligation towards its members (and I plan to continue doing it as long as possible of course).

Dear members, thank you for your trust and support! BitcoinPyramid has been built from your money & your referrals, so I'd like to hear your voice.

What do we do next: 1) just leave it as is, or 2) try to find some man or group who will take it over, or 3) try to sell it and distribute money among all the members in proportion to their bitcoin contribution?

If there are some trusted & respectable members, who are interested/enthusiastic about improving the pyramid and are ready to take over the project, I would gladly delegate the project to them.

Next 1) 2) or 3) what ever comes this way, as long as if there is a new owner they have similar ideas and dedication to keeping it running and fair.

on keeping it as is, maybe after implementing some type of dollar value calculation, and maybe some randomness.

just had a thought for more fun..
Instead of tying the price to dollar randomly select USD/Silver/Gold/EUR/LTC

[kbroadfoot]

What about changing "1/2 goes to a random member" to "1/4th goes to a random member, odds weighted by their deposit AND 1/4th goes to a completely random member regardless of deposit amount"

Also, some method of removing non depositors would be cool. Maybe after a certain amount of time? Of course that sounds like a nightmare to program for a database...

In terms of fairness: Old adverts paid for back in 2011 still outweigh new adverts purchased today. Bitcoinera bought an add for 2 BTC ( like 600 dollars ) that is still outweighed by ads for things that don't even exists anymore... Ads should be weighed in fiat ( dollars? ) and the con side should also be, for sure... that would bring more advertising... PLUS the ads 'maybe' should have a hit/display count...